Jordan Peterson interview on C4

The Bishop Basher

cantdecide wrote: »

Children having children is how I describe it. The slow decline of family norms and traditional values such that less emotionally capable people are having children in less emotionally stable circumstances... and of course, it's easier to medicate away weak parenting because it couldn't possibly be my deficiencies - it has to be a condition with a name.

Social media also plays a massive role in the growing sensitivities and insecurities.

It's highly addictive and designed to feed off people's insecurities.

I honestly rate it up there with alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, sugar etc..

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

No, that is not the question either. The question was about parenting and why many Americans are so bad at it now. I feel the proliferation of kids on psychiatric drugs is not to help the kids but to help the parents as they cannot parent.

I’d like to see the numbers on how many, “many” is. Otherwise it’s a generalisation.

I’d also like to know what objective measure you’re using for parenting ability.

I’m alone these questions because people are blindly swallowing what Peterson has to say without thinking critically. He’s painting large sections of populations with a giant brush. It’s lazy.

As per above, there is an issue with parenting in the US. Why are the younger generation so emotionally retarded and sensitive?

Generalising again. What “younger generation”? How are your measuring this sensitivity and retardation? It’s all broad strokes with zero critical thought applied.

Brian?

cantdecide wrote: »

Children having children is how I describe it. The slow decline of family norms and traditional values such that less emotionally capable people are having children in less emotionally stable circumstances... and of course, it's easier to medicate away weak parenting because it couldn't possibly be my deficiencies - it has to be a condition with a name.

Every generation despairs for the new generation. It’s a tired cliche at this point. Different doesn’t mean worse. Someone should tell Peterson that.

take everything

Brian? wrote: »

The real question here is: What the hell is Peterson wearing? A double breasted waist coat with a single breasted suit!?!

You know what Jordan. Before you go telling young men how to live their lives, maybe you should learn to dress yourself.





This is a joke. But it’s eerily similar to the nonsense Peterson spouts.

The old resorting to talking about someone's appearance/dress sense.
You know you've lost the argument when you're at that.

Joke or not.

Brian?

Swanner wrote: »

Social media also plays a massive role in the growing sensitivities and insecurities.

It's highly addictive and designed to feed off people's insecurities.

I honestly rate it up there with alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, sugar etc..

Social media also creates echo chambers. Where people can get together and complain about the sensitivity of young people.

yabbav

Does anyone see any trouble at the 3area event

take everything

Btw those Jordan Peterson videos are hilarious. I'm sure he finds them funny

markodaly

Brian? wrote: »

Every generation despairs for the new generation. It’s a tired cliche at this point. Different doesn’t mean worse. Someone should tell Peterson that.

You are contradicting yourself because a few posts up you agreed that having 8 million American kids on prescribed on psychiatric drugs was not normal. Yet, this is where we are and the rate will only increase.

take everything

yabbav wrote: »

Does anyone see any trouble at the 3area event

When is this

yabbav

take everything wrote: »

When is this

14th of July. Got tickets so I hope antifa don’t ruin it. Should be some serious dragon energy at it.

Brian?

take everything wrote: »

The old resorting to talking about someone's appearance/dress sense.
You know you've lost the argument when you're at that.

Joke or not.

Well done on completely missing the point.

markodaly

Brian? wrote: »

Generalising again. What “younger generation”? How are your measuring this sensitivity and retardation? It’s all broad strokes with zero critical thought applied.

The advent of safe spaces, the no platforming we see, the medication of the populace to get through the day. If you think society today is grand, then its no use talking you.

Are you saying that young people today are as resilient and emotionally stable as say those who grew up in the 50's or the 70's?

yabbav

https://youtu.be/X_AyP9SAEJc This looks good. No safe spaces.

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

You are contradicting yourself because a few posts up you agreed that having 8 million American kids on prescribed on psychiatric drugs was not normal. Yet, this is where we are and the rate will only increase.

I agreed that that one point was correct. I did not agree with anything else. If you’re going to respond, quit the pettiness and actually debate the pints I’m making in full.

yabbav

Brian? wrote: »

I agreed that that one point was correct. I did not agree with anything else. If you’re going to respond, quit the pettiness and actually debate the pints I’m making in full.

Love the full pints

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

The advent of safe spaces, the no platforming we see, the medication of the populace to get through the day. If you think society today is grand, then its no use talking you.

That is not what I said and you know it. However you’ve edited my post and selectively replied to it, so it looks like I might have said that.

Safe spaces: can be good. When used in the wrong way, they’re bad.

Medication: can be good. When used in the wrong way, they’re bad.

Is society today grand? Depends on the country. Most societies are better than they were 30 years ago. More tolerant and inclusive.

Are you saying that young people today are as resilient and emotionally stable as say those who grew up in the 50's or the 70's?

I am not making a judgement either way. Frankly it’s not something I spend much time thinking about. What’s the SI unit for emotional resilience? Tears per insult?

cantdecide

JBP is complete parrrrrrick. Happy now?

Brian? wrote: »

debate the pints I’m making in full.

People are debating the points in the same terms you have and contrary to your belief, no one is swallowing what he says unquestioningly but you've done nothing but haul the goalposts up, down and round and round for weeks/ pages. It's practically unreadable.

Brian?

cantdecide wrote: »

JBP is complete parrrrrrick. Happy now?

No.

People are debating the points in the same terms you have and contrary to your belief, no one is swallowing what he says unquestioningly but you've done nothing but haul the goalposts up, down and round and round for weeks/ pages. It's practically unreadable.

My goalposts haven’t moved a millimeter. They’re cemented in.

You’ll be glad to hear my debating time is over for the day. You’re free to discuss how terrible young people are. I’m off to pick my kids up and tell them how great they are.

cantdecide

Brian? wrote: »

My goalposts haven’t moved a millimeter.

Righto. Have it your way.

Brian? wrote: »

I’m off to pick my kids up and tell them how great they are.

You could also remind them that they will face adversity in their lives that they must overcome alone and they have the ultimate power in their own lives - they might find that useful too but hey, they're not my kids.

Brian?

cantdecide wrote: »

Righto. Have it your way.

Any need for the petulance?

You could also remind them that they will face adversity in their lives that they must overcome alone and they have the ultimate power in their own lives - they might find that useful too but hey, they're not my kids.

I’ll leave that for a while yet. It’s a bit early.

El_Duderino 09

take everything wrote: »

Brian? wrote: »

The real question here is: What the hell is Peterson wearing? A double breasted waist coat with a single breasted suit!?!

You know what Jordan. Before you go telling young men how to live their lives, maybe you should learn to dress yourself.

This is a joke. But it’s eerily similar to the nonsense Peterson spouts.

The old resorting to talking about someone's appearance/dress sense.
You know you've lost the argument when you're at that.

Joke or not.

Most amusing. There’s a thread about Blindboy and it struggles to get past how he presents himself. I was considered a fool for thinking you should consider the content of their speech, not their appearance.

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

Every generation despairs for the new generation. It’s a tired cliche at this point.

True. I can't think of a period in time or place where the old generation didn't complain about the new and of course vice versa. It seems to be innate in the human psyche.

Outside of the minority of loopers that any demographic shelters and which the internet amplifies like a bastard, I don't see any issues with the current crop of youth. No more than any other that preceded them. If anything I have more sympathy for them. Yes they may have more opportunities, but they also have more opportunities to fail than their parents. Their lives are much less sure, or as sure as they once were.

Not so long ago people could reasonably expect to get a job, which usually lasted for life, meet someone, get married, which again would generally last for life(not always to the good), their lives were more stable in that regard. Their lives were also far more private. TBH I dunno how they navigate that and fair play that the vast majority do.

That's Ireland anyway. And there's another problem. Peterson and all the other daft isms out there he's railing against are operating within the North American college campus mentality. Yes it has spilled out beyond that to some degree, but the sky isn't falling in just yet and even with a load of Irish kids sounding like Yanks going to the stoooore with their moooooms Ireland is a very different culture. Thank christ.

I would say that more young men do seem to be adrift than what I remember. Again seems to be much worse across the Atlantic, but there's an element of it here too. That's the demographic lapping up Peterson, not the old and middle aged. It's also the demographic lapping up "PUA", "red pill" and the "MGTOW" stuff. Out of that lot Peterson is by a goodly margin the best of a bad lot. The Peterson type is a father figure of sorts. Which does make one wonder about their actual fathers, if present.

cantdecide

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say that more young men do seem to be adrift than what I remember.

What are your thoughts on Warren Farrell's work, W?

Wibbs

cantdecide wrote: »

What are your thoughts on Warren Farrell's work, W?

Don't know of the chap TBH CD.

Outlaw Pete

Farrell's alright. He was a feminist in the 60's and then changed given what he saw within the ranks. He was ahead of his time for sure. For example, a lot of what we hear being said today, with regards the criticisms of 2nd and 3rd wave feminism, he was saying back in the 80's to much ridicule.

Here's a clip of him on Barbara Walters.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m16OlBL-yI

Brian?

Wibbs wrote: »

True. I can't think of a period in time or place where the old generation didn't complain about the new and of course vice versa. It seems to be innate in the human psyche.

Outside of the minority of loopers that any demographic shelters and which the internet amplifies like a bastard, I don't see any issues with the current crop of youth. No more than any other that preceded them. If anything I have more sympathy for them. Yes they may have more opportunities, but they also have more opportunities to fail than their parents. Their lives are much less sure, or as sure as they once were.

Not so long ago people could reasonably expect to get a job, which usually lasted for life, meet someone, get married, which again would generally last for life(not always to the good), their lives were more stable in that regard. Their lives were also far more private. TBH I dunno how they navigate that and fair play that the vast majority do.

That's Ireland anyway. And there's another problem. Peterson and all the other daft isms out there he's railing against are operating within the North American college campus mentality. Yes it has spilled out beyond that to some degree, but the sky isn't falling in just yet and even with a load of Irish kids sounding like Yanks going to the stoooore with their moooooms Ireland is a very different culture. Thank christ.

I would say that more young men do seem to be adrift than what I remember. Again seems to be much worse across the Atlantic, but there's an element of it here too. That's the demographic lapping up Peterson, not the old and middle aged. It's also the demographic lapping up "PUA", "red pill" and the "MGTOW" stuff. Out of that lot Peterson is by a goodly margin the best of a bad lot. The Peterson type is a father figure of sorts. Which does make one wonder about their actual fathers, if present.

I agree with your post, I’m only going to respond to the last paragraph. Peterson is very popular with single white young men, from what I can ascertain.

I fully understand why, he attacks feminists and other cultural progressives. There are a lot of this demographic who feel their place in society has been attacked and destroyed. It hasn’t, white males have lost their dominance in the US. Not because they were attacked and dragged down, but because society has become progressively fairer. It’s not entirely fair yet and probably never will be, whether entirely fair society is a desired outcome is a whole different debate.

People looking for a place in this new, more equal society often fall into the trap of looking backwards. Things were better in the 60s. “Men were real men back then” they think. Peterson feeds this desire for regression to more traditional gender roles. Why he desires this is beyond me. Possibly he doesn’t like how he sees society in North America and can only see a way back and not forward.

As the father of 2 young boys, I do worry about how the toxic societalinfluences of will effect them as they grow up. But as long as they grow up as productive decent human beings I don’t care if they are gender fluid pansexuals like me, or cis gender heterosexuals like their mother. And neither should anyone else.

OldRio

Brian? wrote: »

I agreed that that one point was correct. I did not agree with anything else. If you’re going to respond, quit the pettiness and actually debate the pints I’m making in full.

Pints? Making?
Homebrew is it?

Brian?

OldRio wrote: »

Pints? Making?
Homebrew is it?

A nice saison.

sbsquarepants

Brian? wrote: »

I agree with your post, I’m only going to respond to the last paragraph. Peterson is very popular with single white young men, from what I can ascertain.

I fully understand why, he attacks feminists and other cultural progressives. .

I possibly technically fit this description - but at 40+ years old, a long term missus and more kids than McDonalds on a Saturday afternoon, it's only technically.:)

I have to say I like Peterson - I don't really know that much about him, I haven't read any of his books, but from what interviews or youtube videos I've seen, and what articles etc I've read of him, I found him quite easy to agree with.

I don't think he attacks feminists, certainly not in what I've seen - or "other cultural progressives"
I think he attacks non factual nonsense masquerading as truth - for example it's just not good enough to say something like "women get paid less than men and that's simply because they are women" and then fail to back it up with anything resembling a fact, other than simply "women get paid less than men" And then to furthermore point blank refuse to entertain, even the possibility that there might be some other reason or reasons at play. You can say I think this, or I suspect that, or I believe, but that's not what's happening. A very large cohort of people including some very well known media people are stating things as stone cold fact that they simply don't have evidence to support.

He strikes me as an extremely articulate, extremely intelligent man, who is just saying what he sees, rather than what he feels or believes. Feelings aren't facts. Beliefs aren't facts.

Only facts are facts.

Unpopular, unpleasant, even downright unhelpful facts - are still facts. Feelings just don't trump them in the big bad world of reality.

Brian?

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I possibly technically fit this description - but at 40+ years old, a long term missus and more kids than McDonalds on a Saturday afternoon, it's only technically.:)

I have to say I like Peterson - I don't really know that much about him, I haven't read any of his books, but from what interviews or youtube videos I've seen, and what articles etc I've read of him, I found him quite easy to agree with.

I don't think he attacks feminists, certainly not in what I've seen - or "other cultural progressives"
I think he attacks non factual nonsense masquerading as truth - for example it's just not good enough to say something like "women get paid less than men and that's simply because they are women" and then fail to back it up with anything resembling a fact, other than simply "women get paid less than men" And then to furthermore point blank refuse to entertain, even the possibility that there might be some other reason or reasons at play. You can say I think this, or I suspect that, or I believe, but that's not what's happening. A very large cohort of people including some very well known media people are stating things as stone cold fact that they simply don't have evidence to support.

He strikes me as an extremely articulate, extremely intelligent man, who is just saying what he sees, rather than what he feels or believes. Feelings aren't facts. Beliefs aren't facts.

Only facts are facts.

Unpopular, unpleasant, even downright unhelpful facts - are still facts. Feelings just don't trump them in the big bad world of reality.

I can understand why you like him. He had the sheen and polish of a truth teller.

You’re 100% right about feelings v facts. The problem is that Peterson often presents opinion as fact. With little more justification than his academic credentials.