Jordan Peterson interview on C4

20Cent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously man, calling your posts disingenuous would be being very nice about them. You literally sneered in the same post and your previous one:

Not at all. If someone needs to be told that living in their own filth or raising their kids to be ass****s are a bad idea peterson would be very beneficial to them.

JRant

20Cent wrote: »

Hey if it helps people more power to them.
Alot of people enjoy which member of Boyzone are you quizes as well.

It's his conspiracy theories about postmodernist marxists destroying society that causes people to "sneer" or more roll their eyes imo.

I can see where he is coming from though. He is immersed in University life and is somewhat at the coalface of the post modernist movements.

On the self-help stuff, maybe he is just another charlatan looking to cash in, but I'd be willing to give him the benefit of doubt on that one. He appears to be coming at it from a genuine position of wanting to help people and is using his 1,000's of hours of clinical work to do this.

20Cent

JRant wrote: »

I can see where he is coming from though. He is immersed in University life and is somewhat at the coalface of the post modernist movements.

On the self-help stuff, maybe he is just another charlatan looking to cash in, but I'd be willing to give him the benefit of doubt on that one. He appears to be coming at it from a genuine position of wanting to help people and is using his 1,000's of hours of clinical work to do this.

Self authoring:
Write down your goals, write down what is blocking you from achieving them, then write down how you can get over these hurdles. That will be 29.99 please.

The big five personality test available for free on the internet for years. 9.95 on Jordan Peterson .com

JRant

20Cent wrote: »

Self authoring:
Write down your goals, write down what is blocking you from achieving them, then write down how you can get over these hurdles. That will be 29.99 please.

The big five personality test available for free on the internet for years. 9.95 on Jordan Peterson .com

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Yet he is probably making a buck out of it so there is obviously a market for what he is offering.

There is all sorts of "free" stuff on the internet but when you're not paying for something you are the 'product', plus the quality of a lot of this free stuff is absolutely dire.

20Cent

JRant wrote: »

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Yet he is probably making a buck out of it so there is obviously a market for what he is offering.

There is all sorts of "free" stuff on the internet but when you're not paying for something you are the 'product', plus the quality of a lot of this free stuff is absolutely dire.

The big five test has been around since the 90's and is standardised. You can download the questions and mark it yourself. Money for old rope.

benjamin d

20Cent wrote: »

Self authoring:
Write down your goals, write down what is blocking you from achieving them, then write down how you can get over these hurdles. That will be 29.99 please.

The big five personality test available for free on the internet for years. 9.95 on Jordan Peterson .com

And yet you have enough of a problem with this clearly simplistic and harmless behaviour that you've waged a campaign in this thread for going on months now? What's your angle? Why are you and Brian? SO determined to tear Peterson down? Is it because of his stance on pronouns that has been clarified here umpteen times?

Or is it that maybe a load of young white men have found a little hope and direction in their lives through Peterson's books and lectures? And maybe lifting up white men goes against the victimhood and privilege narrative that says young white men don't deserve help or role models as they're everything wrong with society and need to be punished? Is that your problem? Peterson didn't even aim his writing or teaching at young white men, they're just the ones who've taken it to heart. And I think it's a good thing. And the fact that people like you and the others on this thread and on the internet have a MAJOR problem with that makes me think he's onto something good and right, and fair play to him.

20Cent

benjamin d wrote: »

And yet you have enough of a problem with this clearly simplistic and harmless behaviour that you've waged a campaign in this thread for going on months now? What's your angle? Why are you and Brian? SO determined to tear Peterson down? Is it because of his stance on pronouns that has been clarified here umpteen times?

Or is it that maybe a load of young white men have found a little hope and direction in their lives through Peterson's books and lectures? And maybe lifting up white men goes against the victimhood and privilege narrative that says young white men don't deserve help or role models as they're everything wrong with society and need to be punished? Is that your problem? Peterson didn't even aim his writing or teaching at young white men, they're just the ones who've taken it to heart. And I think it's a good thing. And the fact that people like you and the others on this thread and on the internet have a MAJOR problem with that makes me think he's onto something good and right, and fair play to him.

My problem with him is that he is a spoofer selling snake oil, nothing to do with young white men! He also flirts with alt right ideas and gives them credence which is irresponsible imo.

benjamin d

20Cent wrote: »

My problem with him is that he is a spoofer selling snake oil, nothing to do with young white men! He also flirts with alt right ideas and gives them credence which is irresponsible imo.

You've devoted 4 months to arguing in a thread because you think he's a spoofer? Nonsense.

And how is it snake oil if it's inspiring people to improve their lives and sort themselves out? Just because it's not relevant to you doesn't make it irrelevant. You mock and pour scorn on something that a lot of people have been genuinely inspired by, and why? Because you don't like it? Or maybe because it's helping the wrong group?

20Cent

benjamin d wrote: »

You've devoted 4 months to arguing in a thread because you think he's a spoofer? Nonsense.

And how is it snake oil if it's inspiring people to improve their lives and sort themselves out? Just because it's not relevant to you doesn't make it irrelevant. You mock and pour scorn on something that a lot of people have been genuinely inspired by, and why? Because you don't like it? Or maybe because it's helping the wrong group?

This demonstrates why I dislike him, the conspiracy theories.

Sand

20Cent wrote: »

My problem with him is that he is a spoofer selling snake oil, nothing to do with young white men! He also flirts with alt right ideas and gives them credence which is irresponsible imo.

You're so misinformed it is almost an endearing character trait at this point. Peterson despises the alt-right, and they mock and sneer at him in return. For the exact same "Clean your room!" self help points you mock him for. Where do you think that (admittedly hilarious) Kermit the Frog video you posted earlier comes from?. The left? The only other video on that users channel is mocking Michael Moore's reaction to the Trump electoral victory. You're criticising Peterson for imagined alt-right connections whilst using talking points and videos from those who at the very least supported Trump.

JRant

20Cent wrote: »

My problem with him is that he is a spoofer selling snake oil, nothing to do with young white men! He also flirts with alt right ideas and gives them credence which is irresponsible imo.

Ah here, he's make money selling a product and people are obviously buying it. What is wrong with that? It's not harming anyone.

How exactly is he flirting with alt right ideas?
Buying them flowers, bring them for a nice romantic meal?
Seriously, his ideals are the exact opposite of identity politics. Can you give a single concrete example of this?

benjamin d

20Cent wrote: »

This demonstrates why I dislike him, the conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories? Eh? Care to explain that, or are you just talking through your hoop now to try to discredit somebody calling out your utterly baseless guff?

Paranoia? Is that the problem?

Dyr

JRant wrote: »

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Yet he is probably making a buck out of it so there is obviously a market for what he is offering.

There is all sorts of "free" stuff on the internet but when you're not paying for something you are the 'product', plus the quality of a lot of this free stuff is absolutely dire.

That's because the guy is completely misrepresenting what Peterson's approach is.

In fact, I think I' just going to post this image for everyone of himself and Brian? the untouchable mods post's and it will be completely relevant to the quoted post each time

benjamin d

Bambi wrote: »

That's because the guy is completely misrepresenting what Peterson's approach is.

In fact, I think I' just going to post this image for everyone of himself and Brian? the untouchable mods post's and it will be completely relevant to the quoted post each time

I'm really struggling to grasp their agenda here though... WHY are they so determined for Peterson to be a bad guy? From my knowledge of him he seems to genuinely care about people's mental health, insofar as it's still paying his wages, which should go without saying obviously. But why the hate? If anything Peterson seems a little innocent and naive, thinking he can change the world by telling people to cop themselves on and address their individual issues.

But why does that make him a target for the vicious hatred from some quarters?? Bizarre. It must be that he's inadvertently shone a light into the failings of certain holier than thou segments of society, mainly by accident, so now he must be neutralized at all costs. The megalomania of the twitter generation can't cope with someone who genuinely doesn't give a ****e what they pontificate about and won't take his lynching as a result.

20Cent

benjamin d wrote: »

Conspiracy theories? Eh? Care to explain that, or are you just talking through your hoop now to try to discredit somebody calling out your utterly baseless guff?

Paranoia? Is that the problem?

This conspiracy theory:
Postmodern neo-Marxists have infiltrated the education system to undermine western values in order to pave the road to totalitarianism.

20Cent

Sand wrote: »

You're so misinformed it is almost an endearing character trait at this point. Peterson despises the alt-right, and they mock and sneer at him in return. For the exact same "Clean your room!" self help points you mock him for. Where do you think that (admittedly hilarious) Kermit the Frog video you posted earlier comes from?. The left? The only other video on that users channel is mocking Michael Moore's reaction to the Trump electoral victory. You're criticising Peterson for imagined alt-right connections whilst using talking points and videos from those who at the very least supported Trump.

The alt right love him.
He gives an intellectual justification and veneer to their victimisation.

Sand

20Cent wrote: »

The alt right love him.
He gives an intellectual justification and veneer to their victimisation.

No, they really, really don't. As I said, they sneer at his "Clean your room" philosophy, just like you do. They are collectivists who believe in a (white) group identity. JP is an arch individualist who rejects group identity. You asserting something doesn't make it true.

The only genuine objection the left has to Peterson is that, as an individualist, he also opposes non-white group identities. Which has been the shtick of the US left for decades now.

Tigerbaby

20

are you happy with your fascism?

We're not all bad people over here y'know. We've all inherited our lives.
we're all doing the best we can, without blaming all the ills of the World on everyone else.

No Hatred . No Vilification. Just truth.

Just dont push too far, ok?

20Cent

Sand wrote: »

No, they really, really don't. As I said, they sneer at his "Clean your room" philosophy, just like you do. They are collectivists who believe in a (white) group identity. JP is an arch individualist who rejects group identity. You asserting something doesn't make it true.

The only genuine objection the left has to Peterson is that, as an individualist, he also opposes non-white group identities. Which has been the shtick of the US left for decades now.

No one ever accused the alt right of being intelligent.
If he backs up a lot of their beliefs he is useful.

Sand

20Cent wrote: »

No one ever accused the alt right of being intelligent.
If he backs up a lot of their beliefs he is useful.

I just told you he doesn't back up any of their beliefs, and you're accusing others of lacking intelligence. Never change 20, never change.

JRant

Sand wrote: »

No, they really, really don't. As I said, they sneer at his "Clean your room" philosophy, just like you do. They are collectivists who believe in a (white) group identity. JP is an arch individualist who rejects group identity. You asserting something doesn't make it true.

The only genuine objection the left has to Peterson is that, as an individualist, he also opposes non-white group identities. Which has been the shtick of the US left for decades now.

It's pretty much his core tenant and goes to great lengths outlining the pitfalls of collectivism. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to accuse him of being alt right.

20Cent

So do you guys also believe that "postmodern neo-Marxists have infiltrated the education system to undermine western values in order to pave the road to totalitarianism?

https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/935744470473216001

20Cent

JRant wrote: »

It's pretty much his core tenant and goes to great lengths outlining the pitfalls of collectivism. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to accuse him of being alt right.

I'm not saying he is alt right. Just that the alt right love him because he shares and backs up a lot of their theories.

JRant

20Cent wrote: »

I'm not saying he is alt right. Just that the alt right love him because he shares and backs up a lot of their theories.

That just makes no sense though. How can he normt be alt-right while at the same time sharing and backing up alot of their theories?
You'll have to help me out with that one because I'm scratching my noddle trying to square that circle.

Ipso

20Cent wrote: »

I'm not saying he is alt right. Just that the alt right love him because he shares and backs up a lot of their theories.

I'm sure there are members of the alt right who would use Charles Darwin's ideas for their own cause, should Darwin be dismissed because of this?

Sand

JRant wrote: »

It's pretty much his core tenant and goes to great lengths outlining the pitfalls of collectivism. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to accuse him of being alt right.

20 cent spent most of the Trump campaign in 2016 denouncing the alt-right. After the Trump victory he then opened a thread asking the question "So, what is this alt-right thing?".

The lad clearly has little idea of what the alt-right is beyond a pejorative for people he disagrees with.

20Cent wrote: »

So do you guys also believe that "postmodern neo-Marxists have infiltrated the education system to undermine western values in order to pave the road to totalitarianism?

https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/935744470473216001

So if someone is challenged by a person to a debate, they agree with the views and comments of the challenger? Whats the point of the debate then? Spencer clearly *needs* the fame/infamy of a debate with Peterson far more than Peterson needs it. Of course he is going to be polite and suck up in the request. As it was, Peterson wisely ignored or rejected it. You're going to have to do a lot better than that.

Like maybe take some view of Peterson, and establish how it aligns with the idealogy of the alt-right.

20Cent

JRant wrote: »

That just makes no sense though. How can he normt be alt-right while at the same time sharing and backing up alot of their theories?
You'll have to help me out with that one because I'm scratching my noddle trying to square that circle.

They have things in common like that there is no discrimination against minorities, women or trans people if only they stood up straight they'd be fine. The reason an alt right fellas sex life consists of Japanese cartoon schoolgirls is because women have been brainwashed by radical feminism.
Stuff like that.

Worst of all is the neo marxists trying to destroy society stuff which is identical to what the far right say about "cultural marxism".

Sand

20Cent wrote: »

They have things in common like that there is no discrimination against minorities, women or trans people if only they stood up straight they'd be fine. The reason an alt right fellas sex life consists of Japanese cartoon schoolgirls is because women have been brainwashed by radical feminism.
Stuff like that.

Worst of all is the neo marxists trying to destroy society stuff which is identical to what the far right say about "cultural marxism".

The alt-right don't deny there is or was discrimination against minorities, and they don't believe that discrimination is or will be avoidable. Its one of their core objections to to white Americans becoming a minority in the USA, which is inevitable under current conditions. They believe that the outcome for minorities is fairly grim and "standing up straight" is not a solution. That is the basis of their contempt for Peterson.

Skylinehead

Bambi wrote: »

That's because the guy is completely misrepresenting what Peterson's approach is.

In fact, I think I' just going to post this image for everyone of himself and Brian? the untouchable mods post's and it will be completely relevant to the quoted post each time

Is he a mod here?

JRant

20Cent wrote: »

They have things in common like that there is no discrimination against minorities, women or trans people if only they stood up straight they'd be fine. The reason an alt right fellas sex life consists of Japanese cartoon schoolgirls is because women have been brainwashed by radical feminism.
Stuff like that.

Worst of all is the neo marxists trying to destroy society stuff which is identical to what the far right say about "cultural marxism".

Ah, I get where you are coming from now. Basically you have no idea what Peterson actually believes, despite the fact he is quite clear in his views. You would do well to find a single example of him saying that minorities are not in someway disadvantaged. What he typically argues for is an examination of multi-variant statistics, instead of just parroting out unsubstantiated statistics. You know, look at the actual data and try to figure out how to improve the situation.

Judging by what is coming out of the university systems in Canada and the US then cultural Marxism is a very real thing. I'm sceptical on whether to this will destory society but it's good to have someone shining a light on it.