Jordan Peterson interview on C4

RandomName2

Is it my imagination or is it something like this.

Left wing person: Jordan Peterson is an idiot. He tells lies like [insert something like 'left-wing ogranizations are looking for equality of outcome' here].

*People send time doing research to provide evidence to refute claim*

Left wing person: Oh I'm not going to look through any of that stuff. Lol.

Outlaw Pete

Brian? wrote: »

One of JPs straw men. Who’s arguing for equity of outcome?

Are you serious?

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is it my imagination or is it something like this.

Left wing person: Jordan Peterson is an idiot. He tells lies like [insert something like 'left-wing ogranizations are looking for equality of outcome' here].

*People send time doing research to provide evidence to refute claim*

Left wing person: Oh I'm not going to look through any of that stuff. Lol.

It is your imagination.

Pa ElGrande

Bambi wrote: »

Interesting. You going to link to these KPIs? 80's through to now obviously.

I'm sure you can dig up the data from the CSO for life expectancy, death rates at work, mortality rates and income and so on.


https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hes/hes2015/aiw/

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Are you serious?

Yes.

Dyr

Brian? wrote: »

Honestly horse, I am not going to read any of those links or watch that video. If the points are worth making, why can’t you make them in your own words? Debating links is a waste of time as I can’t address the author.

I know how you feel chief, because It's how I feel about everything you post.

Brian?

Bambi wrote: »

I know how you feel chief, because It's how I feel about everything you post.

Thanks.

RandomName2

Brian? wrote: »

Yes.

Wait, you can't back out of an argument, and then back into it again!

mcmoustache

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is it my imagination or is it something like this.

Left wing person: Jordan Peterson is an idiot. He tells lies like [insert something like 'left-wing ogranizations are looking for equality of outcome' here].

*People send time doing research to provide evidence to refute claim*

Left wing person: Oh I'm not going to look through any of that stuff. Lol.

That's fair enough though. In a discussion forum, it's a bit unfair to make somebody watch a video. It stinks of not being able to or being too lazy to make a point. If you challenged me on a point and I responded with an hour-long video, you'd be silly to sit through it. If I summarised the point and added the video for context, perhaps with a timestamp, that would be less of a díck move.


I also find it funny that people are literally doing what the antagonist in the cartoon that I posted is doing. Is this something that's exclusive to Jordan Peterson? I don't think I've come another fanbase that makes so much use of "Argument by youtube".

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

Oh, okay, mr imaginary poster.

Look, it’s this simple.

I post my own opinions. If I state something as fact, I may put in a link to affirm that fact. But mostly I’m stating opinions. I’m quite happy to debate these opinions or I wouldn’t post.

Some posters simply post links to other people’s opinions. Do they not have their own opinions? Can they not summarise even? How can I debate a third party opinion. They are not posting links back up facts, I have no issues with that. They are linking opinions, what’s the point of that? That isn’t debate.

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

Wait, you can't back out of an argument, and then back into it again!

When did I back out of an argument?

JohnnyFlash

Bambi wrote: »

I know how you feel chief, because It's how I feel about everything you post.

You not a socialist anymore? Looks like another split is underway.

Outlaw Pete

Brian? wrote: »

Yes.

Wtf are gender quotas then if not Equality of Outcome?

Norway have had boardroom gender quotas for well over a decade.

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/gender-quotas-dont-help-businesses-they-dont-even-help-women

mcmoustache

Brian? wrote: »

No. Aiming for equality of outcome is fine. If it a little delusional, as it can’t be achieved.

Wanting to enforce equality of outcome is absolutely not fine.

To the best of my knowledge enforcing equality of outcom is not part of any left wing ideology.

To be fair, there are some on the fringes promoting it. It's certainly not mainstream or a majority ideology but it does exist in the crazier pockets.

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

*People send time doing research to provide evidence to refute claim*

I’m selectively responding to this line.

The poster spent zero effort on research into evidence. They went and found opinions that supported their argument. There’s a huge difference between the 2.

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Wtf are gender quotas then if not Equality of Outcome?

Norway have had boardroom gender quotas for well over a decade.

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/gender-quotas-dont-help-businesses-they-dont-even-help-women

What gender quotas in Ireland. We were talking about Ireland.

Brian?

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair, there are some on the fringes promoting it. It's certainly not mainstream or a majority ideology but it does exist in the crazier pockets.

Can you provide some examples please? I’m shocked to hear that. It’s an absolute disgrace.

mcmoustache

Brian? wrote: »

The poster spent zero effort on research into evidence.

It's lazy as hell and it's ridiculous to make someone sit through some video just because they can't make a point in writing.

DickSwiveller Returns

Brian? wrote: »

What gender quotas in Ireland. We were talking about Ireland.

Political parties are required to have a certain number of women candidates at election time.

Brian?

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Political parties are required to have a certain number of women candidates at election time.

I already said that.

Pac1Man

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's lazy as hell and it's ridiculous to make someone sit through some video just because they can't make a point in writing.

It's equally as lazy and revealing that you basically put your fingers in your ears when presented with direct links to agendas you stated don't exist.

You only want your kind of evidence. It's funny.

Yer Da sells Avon

michael_night wrote: »

right to housing is another one

As rights go, a home is a very basic one. I'd put it close to the top, above any other form of social welfare. And it's also very achievable, if the government was - over a relatively short period of time - prepared to spend as much on building houses as they currently do on handing money over to private landlords.

mcmoustache

Brian? wrote: »

Can you provide some examples please? I’m shocked to hear that. It’s an absolute disgrace.

My goto for daftness is Ivana Bacik and she doesn't disappoint. I know that she's not that mainstream but she's a handy goto for the daft side.

Outlaw Pete

Quit your backtracking. Pa ElGrande wasn't talking about Ireland (exclusively at least). You said:

Brian? wrote: »

One of JPs straw men. Who’s arguing for equity of outcome? It’s not a goal of any left wing ideology.

You quite clearly were speaking generally. You even said it was not left wing ideology.

Now that you've been called on it, shown proof, and not in the form of a video, you pretend you were just talking about Ireland! Some spoofing you're at here.

Pa ElGrande

Brian? wrote: »

I’m selectively responding to this line.

The poster spent zero effort on research into evidence. They went and found opinions that supported their argument. There’s a huge difference between the 2.

You asked

Brian? wrote: »

. . . . Who’s arguing for equity of outcome? . . .

And I provided you with several examples from Ireland plus a link to JP as you claimed and since you stated JP was making a straw man argument I included a presentation of his on the subject so that others can validate your claim if they so desire.

RandomName2

mcmoustache wrote: »

That's fair enough though. In a discussion forum, it's a bit unfair to make somebody watch a video. It stinks of not being able to or being too lazy to make a point.

Unfair? Lazy?!

How about something like this. Obama says there should be more white people in prison.

That statement above is patently untrue! But it takes some time to go off and find a video that will contradict it. In this context posting a video of Obama talking about equality is probably sufficient.

Saying that left-wing ideologies are not interested in equality of outcome is patently false. I've seen a number of interviewers take issue with Peterson's opposition to equality of outcome. It would take me hours to find the videos and the exact time mark to post them here, and then the poster would just slide away onto a different topic, or as happened in a different thread, just say the exact same thing like a broken record.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107516092&postcount=9074

If that's not lazy and and fair I don't know what is. I don't see why it is the responsibility of other posters to run around finding evidence that left-wing organisations are looking for equality of outcomes!

Positive discrimination, quotas, affirmative action.

So you're saying we should be like lobsters?

20Cent

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Maoists, not Pol Pol (nor even Mao himself).

He’s talking about how Maoism worked in Chinese campuses in the 60s. Professors were judged on ideological purity by their students and had to ritually apologise in front of large groups of students or be condemned, fired or worse.

Surely if thats what he meant he'd say it that way.

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Quit your backtracking. Pa ElGrande wasn't talking about Ireland. You said:



You quite clearly were speaking generally here. You even said it was not left wing ideology.

Now that you've been called on it, shown proof, and not in the form of a video, you pretend you were just talking about Ireland! Some spoofing you're at here.

I think you’ll find I lost the thread of the argument because of the amount of replies. Apologies.

What’s the question here?

mcmoustache

RandomName2 wrote: »

Unfair? Lazy?!

How about something like this. Obama says there should be more white people in prison.

That statement above is patently untrue! But it takes some time to go off and find a video that will contradict it. In this context posting a video of Obama talking about equality is probably sufficient.

Saying that left-wing ideologies are not interested in equality of outcome is patently false. I've seen a number of interviewers with Peterson make such a claim. It would take me hours to find the videos and the exact time mark to post them here, and then the poster would just slide away onto a different topic, or as happened in a different thread, just say the exact same thing like a broken record.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107516092&postcount=9074

If that's not lazy and and fair I don't know what is. I don't see why it is the responsibility of other posters to run around finding evidence that left-wing organisations are looking for equality of outcomes!

Positive discrimination, quotas, affirmative action.

So you're saying we should be like lobsters?

Providing a video as an example is one thing. Posting a video to make a point instead of making in myself would be lazy. There's a big difference.


If you said "Deepak Chopra" is full of shít and I responded with "No just look at this 3 hour TedX talk of his", you'd be right to make me sling my hook.


On the other hand, if you said "Trump never said that the press is the enemy of the people" and I posted a video of Trump doing just that, that would be OK.


Again, there's a clear difference.

Brian?

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

You asked



And I provided you with several examples from Ireland plus a link to JP as you claimed and since you stated JP was making a straw man argument I included a presentation of his on the subject so that others can validate your claim if they so desire.

You provided nothing but links.