House for Sale - Too Good To Be True?

ShaShaBear

First off, the house is real but we're not in a position to buy so this is more hypothetical.

House in question is in a small town in the N/E, about 10 minutes drive from us. It's one of two standalone houses that have three floors - one at street level and one above and below. The house is advertised at 65k - freshly painted outside and in, beautiful new floors, huge back garden, a real dream. This is what gets me. The two higher floors (street level and first floor) consists of 3 bedrooms, a bathroom, kitchen and living room and an office/playroom/study. The lower floor is advertised as a 2-bedroom apartment with its own front door. It has a kitchen, bathroom, two bedrooms and a sitting room. However, the purchase price is for the building in its entirety.
If one were to buy this house, could you effectively use it as a whole? As in a 5 bedroom property? Or do you reckon the fact that downstairs is advertised as a "rental opportunity" means that there's some reason it couldn't be?

Eric Cartman

could be tenant in situ which makes it cash only (no mortgage) to buy it, could be lots of reasons, no idea where it is but 65k for effectively a 5 bed gaf sounds incredibly cheap to me

goldenhoarde

ShaShaBear wrote: »

First off, the house is real but we're not in a position to buy so this is more hypothetical.

House in question is in a small town in the N/E, about 10 minutes drive from us. It's one of two standalone houses that have three floors - one at street level and one above and below. The house is advertised at 65k - freshly painted outside and in, beautiful new floors, huge back garden, a real dream. This is what gets me. The two higher floors (street level and first floor) consists of 3 bedrooms, a bathroom, kitchen and living room and an office/playroom/study. The lower floor is advertised as a 2-bedroom apartment with its own front door. It has a kitchen, bathroom, two bedrooms and a sitting room. However, the purchase price is for the building in its entirety.
If one were to buy this house, could you effectively use it as a whole? As in a 5 bedroom property? Or do you reckon the fact that downstairs is advertised as a "rental opportunity" means that there's some reason it couldn't be?

tNo once you buy you can use it as a whole. Might not be configured to go downstairs as is.

For a sellers point of view better to sell like this as there is a potential income stream if you buy it so this might generate more interest and ultimately a better sale price.

Also Eric's points may be in play.

Could be a lot of work needed

ShaShaBear

Eric Cartman wrote: »

could be tenant in situ which makes it cash only (no mortgage) to buy it, could be lots of reasons, no idea where it is but 65k for effectively a 5 bed gaf sounds incredibly cheap to me

Precisely what I felt with regards to the price. This area is quite cheap to buy in, but the house is directly across from a park, on the outskirts of town - far enough away to evade noise but not so far that it would take more than 4-5 minutes to walk to a shop. I've not really seen a whole pile of 3-bed houses that cheap though, let alone a 5-bed!

ShaShaBear

goldenhoarde wrote: »

tNo once you buy you can use it as a whole. Might not be configured to go downstairs as is.

For a sellers point of view better to sell like this as there is a potential income stream if you buy it so this might generate more interest and ultimately a better sale price.

Also Eric's points may be in play.

Could be a lot of work needed

I actually must look at the pictures and see if you can get downstairs - that would explain a lot! Honestly at that price I'd be far more interested in buying it and using as a whole - the large garden is at the basement level, so I'd feel odd about using it with my kids and dog if there was a tenant gaining access to his/her home through what I would call the back door :pac:

ShaShaBear

http://www.daft.ie/monaghan/houses-for-sale/ballybay/124-lower-main-street-ballybay-monaghan-1450467/

And no, before anyone asks, this is not a sly way of advertising my house for sale :P

DancingHomer

There's a river beside it.

ShaShaBear

DancingHomer wrote: »

There's a river beside it.

There is, but I know the area well and it doesnt flood there. Or hasn't in years.

Eric Cartman

ShaShaBear wrote: »

There is, but I know the area well and it doesnt flood there. Or hasn't in years.

at less than the price of a new Toyota landcruiser, if its an area you want to live in and is structurally sound then go for it. Sure if you're buying with a partner if each of you got a 35k term loan from a bank you'd have it paid off in 5 years (this loan would still be possible with tenants in situ)

flooding may be a concern which could basically mean you have to do a 20 grand refurb of the basement flat every decade, but its still quite cheap housing.

It being in Monaghan certainly explains the price to an extent, but id be spending cash on a very good surveyor.

Ocean Blue

ShaShaBear wrote: »

http://www.daft.ie/monaghan/houses-for-sale/ballybay/124-lower-main-street-ballybay-monaghan-1450467/

And no, before anyone asks, this is not a sly way of advertising my house for sale :P

Potential issues....
Any risk of flooding from the river?
Where is the door to downstairs? Does one need to walk through the back of the neighbours garden to access?
Why did the owner spend on reflooring and repainting such a low valued house? Covering up any potential issues? Moisture problems or mould seeing as it's built on the bank of a river?
Noise from next door hotel?

Flood risk. Damp risk possibly? Any parking?

Lots of people don't want to live in older houses as they are perceived to be small or poorly laid out.

ShaShaBear

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at less than the price of a new Toyota landcruiser, if its an area you want to live in and is structurally sound then go for it. Sure if you're buying with a partner if each of you got a 35k term loan from a bank you'd have it paid off in 5 years (this loan would still be possible with tenants in situ)

flooding may be a concern which could basically mean you have to do a 20 grand refurb of the basement flat every decade, but its still quite cheap housing.

It being in Monaghan certainly explains the price to an extent, but id be spending cash on a very good surveyor.

Definitely not close to a mortgage approval stage in either myself or my husband's case, but the house always baffled me. On close inspection of the photos, it does indeed look as if the downstairs "apartment" cannot be reached by any means other than the separate entry to the side of the house. This would also mean that for, say, my kids and my dog to have access to the garden, we would all have to exit the house from our front door onto the street, and walk around the side of the house. I wonder if that's the issue.

Ocean Blue

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Definitely not close to a mortgage approval stage in either myself or my husband's case, but the house always baffled me. On close inspection of the photos, it does indeed look as if the downstairs "apartment" cannot be reached by any means other than the separate entry to the side of the house. This would also mean that for, say, my kids and my dog to have access to the garden, we would all have to exit the house from our front door onto the street, and walk around the side of the house. I wonder if that's the issue.

Very possible. It would be one thing if you had to walk around your own house but it's actually next door isn't it? Imagine that sold and the owners walled in their garden.....you would be in big trouble

catrionanic

Funny, I knew exactly what house you were talking about before you posted the link, as my grandfather is from Ballybay and I had also wondered why it was so cheap!

Ocean Blue

Ocean Blue wrote: »

Very possible. It would be one thing if you had to walk around your own house but it's actually next door isn't it? Imagine that sold and the owners walled in their garden.....you would be in big trouble

Also possible that if there is an issue with access, that the property may not have proper planning permission for the downstairs?

ShaShaBear

catrionanic wrote: »

Funny, I knew exactly what house you were talking about before you posted the link, as my grandfather is from Ballybay and I had also wondered why it was so cheap!

Go do some snooping for me so, cause it's been bugging me for months!! :pac:

ShaShaBear

Ocean Blue wrote: »

Very possible. It would be one thing if you had to walk around your own house but it's actually next door isn't it? Imagine that sold and the owners walled in their garden.....you would be in big trouble

No, next door is identical, but a different house. The flat is directly under the house. It's essentially more like a 2bed house with garden and a 3bed apartment on top of it

Ocean Blue

ShaShaBear wrote: »

No, next door is identical, but a different house. The flat is directly under the house. It's essentially more like a 2bed house with garden and a 3bed apartment on top of it

So do the house and flat share the front door? I was assuming the flat used the side door downstairs for access.

ShaShaBear

Ocean Blue wrote: »

So do the house and flat share the front door? I was assuming the flat used the side door downstairs for access.

Think I picked you up wrong :pac:
There are two semi-detached buildings. They are both the same in that they are a three bed residence upstairs, and a 2bed flat downstairs. Both houses have a front door at street level, and the entrance to each flat is at basement level to each side of the building. Only one is for sale though, although the other one was sold recently enough.

When I say its more like a 2bed house with a garden and a 3bed apartment above it, I mean that the downstairs "apartment" has proper, easy and direct access to the garden, whereas whoever occupied the 3bed would have to exit their front door and walk around the side of the building and descend to the garden, which would be used in full view of the apartment tenant. You couldn't just open the door and let the kids/dog run off to the garden themselves! But if you used the 2bed downstairs as the dwelling with a garden and rented the upstairs 3bed out instead, you would get decent usage I would think?

jodaw

Flood event in 2011 looks like in affected a bridge upstream from this property badly. Thought it was this property affected, but i do not think so.

Most families with kids would not buy such a property.

Beside 65K is about right? Does not seem a crazy price to me for an old, damp, cold property located on a river bank with the potential to flood. The new back yeard and new paint and floors would concern me.##

ShaShaBear

jodaw wrote: »

Flood event in 2011 looks like in affected a bridge upstream from this property badly. Thought it was this property affected, but i do not think so.

Most families with kids would not buy such a property.

Beside 65K is about right? Does not seem a crazy price to me for an old, damp, cold property located on a river bank with the potential to flood. The new back yeard and new paint and floors would concern me.##

Forgive me, but where are you getting old, damp and cold from? I definitely understand that there is the "potential" to flood, but the house and flat used to be rented out recently, so I assumed the new decor was more to do with that than anything else?

jodaw

Old house construction. Zero insulation i would imagine. Cold bridges everywhere. Also not seeing any ventilation.

Assume the the house is cold and damp. Would not expect otherwise and the new paint would make me assume mould growth was an issue.

I would not pay 65K of your money for that, but it the crazy times we live in I can understand why people might think 65K is cheap

Also the plinths on the kitchen seem a bit "off", almost like water staining

Ocean Blue

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Think I picked you up wrong :pac:
There are two semi-detached buildings. They are both the same in that they are a three bed residence upstairs, and a 2bed flat downstairs. Both houses have a front door at street level, and the entrance to each flat is at basement level to each side of the building. Only one is for sale though, although the other one was sold recently enough.

When I say its more like a 2bed house with a garden and a 3bed apartment above it, I mean that the downstairs "apartment" has proper, easy and direct access to the garden, whereas whoever occupied the 3bed would have to exit their front door and walk around the side of the building and descend to the garden, which would be used in full view of the apartment tenant. You couldn't just open the door and let the kids/dog run off to the garden themselves! But if you used the 2bed downstairs as the dwelling with a garden and rented the upstairs 3bed out instead, you would get decent usage I would think?

Am I correct that it is the house on the left that's for sale? I just can't see in the picture how to get down to the lower level door......is there steps that aren't visible? All i see is the wall and bridge. I wondered if to get down to that door you had to walk around the right hand semi-detached house I. E. Through their garden. Maybe I'm missing something in the pic!

_Brian

Isn’t Ballybay officially the most deprived town in Monaghan as in it’s at the top of the deprivation index ??

I pass through regularly, and do some business there, never get the feel there’s much going for it, other than the cattle mart.

ShaShaBear

_Brian wrote: »

Isn’t Ballybay officially the most deprived town in Monaghan as in it’s at the top of the deprivation index ??

I pass through regularly, and do some business there, never get the feel there’s much going for it, other than the cattle mart.

No idea, but I'm in Castleblayney and the only one-up we have on them is a Lidl, so... :pac:

jodaw

I would imagine that the house would not be insurable being so close to the river, so i would think no bank would finance the purchase.

Mrs OBumble

I reckon there's an issue with access to the apartment, back yard and oil tank being via the neighbouring property (not the attached one, the next one over).


https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.1256563,-6.9005504,3a,90y,260.7h,77.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg5jWDz0pILp4f-zuBAzlhg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.1253591,-6.9005059,3a,37.5y,325.74h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCoiEm0ZqdaWzVxKNGVG1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Possibly no planning for the lower apartment.

Also, the windows look odd. Could you get out of them in a fire?

DancingHomer

ShaShaBear wrote: »

There is, but I know the area well and it doesnt flood there. Or hasn't in years.

You might struggle to get the property insured though.

Victor

Who died there and who lives next door / across the street?

Modern renovation but a D1 BER rating? Monaghan can get awfully cold in winter.

As the other semi-D has a matching door, are they both owned by the same person?

I would query the planning status and access / boundary issues. Parking may be an issue.

Ballybay is the middle of nowhere. There is no public transport other than the Rural Transport Programme - one bus in, one bus out per day - no weekend service. https://locallink.ie/media/1196/locallink-m1-m2-timetable-final.pdf That brings us to car parking and needing the neighbours' permission.

The price is in line with other Ballybay properties.

What's the hotel like on a weekend night?

Only one Eircode - how does the flat get its post?

Changes can be made with planning permission. I can't see many objections to adding stairs, inside or out. Assuming the house and the flat were originally one house, you might not even need planning permission.

ShaShaBear

Victor wrote: »

Who died there and who lives next door / across the street?

Modern renovation but a D1 BER rating? Monaghan can get awfully cold in winter.

As the other semi-D has a matching door, are they both owned by the same person?

I would query the planning status and access / boundary issues. Parking may be an issue.

Ballybay is the middle of nowhere. There is no public transport other than the Rural Transport Programme - one bus in, one bus out per day - no weekend service. https://locallink.ie/media/1196/locallink-m1-m2-timetable-final.pdf That brings us to car parking and needing the neighbours' permission.

The price is in line with other Ballybay properties.

What's the hotel like on a weekend night?

Only one Eircode - how does the flat get its post?

Changes can be made with planning permission. I can't see many objections to adding stairs, inside or out. Assuming the house and the flat were originally one house, you might not even need planning permission.

Hotel wasn't even in use until recently, and as far as I'm aware, still doesn't be at night. Think it's just a restaurant at the minute!

As for being in line with other properties, the only house close in price and similar to it is very run down inside and out and isn't connected to the local sewerage system.

Eircode wouldn't bother me - Monaghan in general is touch and go as to who gets what post - I often get post for number 20 of my neighbouring estate and vica versa - despite the postman knowing me personally as we are related by marriage :rolleyes:

Can definitely see what you and others mean about planning permission, access and parking though! And the energy rating does seem odd for such a "fresh" looking house!

P. Breathnach

It's cheap principally because it's in Ballybay, where there is feck-all demand for property. Factor in some of the issues mentioned in this thread, and the price makes sense.

I'll add another concern: I think the rooms are small.

The issues other than location might or might not be barriers to you.

I'd guess that there one was an internal stairs to the basement directly under the stairs to the upper storey. Reinstatement would be less costly than starting from scratch, but the layout of the basement rooms might need to be changed.

When, and why, was the house rewired? The socket count seems impressively high, and that might indicate a previous owner who wanted to live in a good house.

I'd be concerned about the attic having been "insulted with Kingspan insulation and Rockwool".