Extremely noisy neighbours

Blondie 1986

Thanks so much to everyone for their responses and suggestions. I think we are simply going to have to just approach the parents and discuss it and just put our point of view across and see if there is anything which they may be able to do in this situation (I do feel they could do more to stop the banging or simply give him something softer to hit or something along those lines) but I do appreciate it is not simply a case whereby they can give out to him and tell him to stop doing x/y/z.

We do want to have a good relationship with our neighbours so accept there will be certain noise levels etc, but it is beyond excessive at the moment...I just hope it is not a sign for how things will be over the next few years and beyond, as we cannot move having spent everything we have to secure this house!

I really do appreciate all your comments and suggestions and will update once we have spoken to the parents and hopefully reach a good outcome for all parties involved.

challengemaster

Noise complaint to district court.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

I think it's utterly ridiculous people suggesting the OP spend their own money on soundproofing, moving or anything other than the people causing the nuisance finding an appropriate solution.

kegblag

If this house wasn't bought new, then it's likely the previous inhabitants faced the same problem and have already tried to negotiate and gave up.

Perhaps the state helped provide the house and could be persuaded to instead provide an as good or better detached house at no cost to the family. But even if they could that would take a long time to arrange.

I'd be preparing to move right now in your situation. Other solutions might work, moving will work. Moving is stressful, but less than living without sleep or trying to deal with getting ineffective court orders from a judge who lives in fully detached ivory tower.

If it got to court journos would pick a side and the sympathy would be with the family with the autistic kids, a story like this would probably make the press in some small scale.

In an ideal country we could quickly sort out noise issues via the local council and we'd have good sound insulation for party walls. But this is Ireland.

If possible never risk buying a semi-detached due to noise leakage - some are fine but don't know until you live there a while, viewings will be be scheduled to occur when noise sources are out.

Meeeee79

kegblag wrote: »

If this house wasn't bought new, then it's likely the previous inhabitants faced the same problem and have already tried to negotiate and gave up.

Perhaps the state helped provide the house and could be persuaded to instead provide an as good or better detached house at no cost to the family. But even if they could that would take a long time to arrange.

I'd be preparing to move right now in your situation. Other solutions might work, moving will work. Moving is stressful, but less than living without sleep or trying to deal with getting ineffective court orders from a judge who lives in fully detached ivory tower.

If it got to court journos would pick a side and the sympathy would be with the family with the autistic kids, a story like this would probably make the press in some small scale.

In an ideal country we could quickly sort out noise issues via the local council and we'd have good sound insulation for party walls. But this is Ireland.

If possible never risk buying a semi-detached due to noise leakage - some are fine but don't know until you live there a while, viewings will be be scheduled to occur when noise sources are out.

Kegblag, while you may be trying to give good advice, I think you are failing to recognise that people don't simply have the money to up and leave having just bought a house. Similarly people cannot necessarily avoid buying semi d in certain areas and certain budgets. Unfortunately its not as black and white as never risk buying a semi d or move.

OP this is a very sensitive situation and unfortunately I think as you have said yourself your first port of call must be to speak to the parents and gauge at least what their attitude towards it is. Only then can you really decide what needs to be done next. Fingers crossed for you.

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ELM327

As an adult with Asberger's (on the autism spectrum) I can see both sides of this argument.
As part of my asbergers I am often to be found sitting in "my chair" in the sitting room and hitting the wall in the same place in a repetitive motion. We live out the country and it's not an issue. But in a semi d I would not expect that to be tolerated and would have to find another way to deal with how I am feeling. At the time that I get the need to hit the wall it's either my fist or my head so I try pick the least destructive option.

However as an adult I have the insight to see - sometimes anyway - what impacts my coping mechanisms have on others and can modulate accordingly.
A child does not have this level of insight or understanding, so they are dealing with the stress and frustration and compounding feelings in the best way they know how.
The only way of tackling this is to speak with the parents. They will know in advance what the child is doing and why you are there. It might be as simple as teaching the child a new way of dealing with his feelings. Depending on where the child is on the spectrum and intellectuallly this may or may not be possible.


To the posters suggesting noise complaints and courts, I can only hope that you never have to live a life afflicted directly or indirectly by autism/asd/asbergers.

ELM327

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope.

I'm suggesting that the parents need to talk to the medical professionals about what's appropriate to ensure that the kids and adults get adequate rest. To have this conversation properly, the parents need to know about the effects on the neighbours.

Like it or not, sedation is one of the options which is sometimes used.

The OP doesn't tell the neighbour "do X with your kid" (move it's bedroom, sedate it, build a sensory wall, take it for a long walk at 8pm ... etc). They just say "we have this problem, can we do anything to help you fix it - because you, Mr / Mrs Parent, need to get it fixed" - more gently than that, of course.

Not having the conversation is just ostracising the parent, and causing more problems as tempers get frayed. Classic passive-aggressive behaviour, which solves nothing.

Disgusting advice.
As someone on the spectrum this attitude is unfortunately all too prevalent amongst some members of society and needs to change.
Disgusting.

gct wrote: »

I just don't know how to reply to this. Shocking! As a parent of a child with autism I can tell You that its safe to say the OP's neighbours are well aware of the noise situation and will already be doing all they can to keep the noise to a minimum. You cannot tell an autistic child to keep quiet. They operate in their own universe.
I also think the OP will find the neighbours to be very approachable and by talking to them You will find that they are already doing everything possible to ease the situation. I don't think its fair to make them out to be the neighbours from hell.

+1

dublincelt

challengemaster wrote: »

Noise complaint to district court.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

I think it's utterly ridiculous people suggesting the OP spend their own money on soundproofing, moving or anything other than the people causing the nuisance finding an appropriate solution.

Are you suggeting the district court will be in a position to cure Autism??? A district court has absolutely remit in this type of situation. Nonsensical idea..

Mrs OBumble

ELM327 wrote: »

Disgusting advice.
As someone on the spectrum this attitude is unfortunately all too prevalent amongst some members of society and needs to change.
Disgusting.

Children need sleep. A lot of sleep, compared to adults.

There's nothing worse than seeing a child deprived of sleep because some people have an ideological prejudice about using appropriate medications to make it possible. The kid just gets worse with no sleep.

I've seen it with an adult too: everyone thought it was fine for her to take anti-psychotic medications - until she moved into a nursing home and suddenly those very same meds were regarded as keeping here "doped up" and removed. No prizes guessing what happened to her after that.




The first step in any noise complaint is ALWAYS to talk to the adults who are responsible for the source of the noise. They cannot help if they do not know of your concerns. They may be at their wits end having tried everything already. But they may not be too - some become de-sensitised after living with the situation for years.

Court is the last option, and one you really really don't want. They cannot cure autism, but they can order the parents to find a solution to the anti-social behaviour - and it gets to court, that solution may well be residential care.

GreeBo

While sedation might be a bridge too far, specific medication sounds like it would be appropriate in this case.
If no one in either family is getting any sleep its a bad situation for everyone involved.

The neighbours have as much right to peaceful life as the children in question do.

OP if you do approach the parents I would second the idea of some absorbing material on the joining wall.
Something like the rubber mats you see in gym floors would go a long way to absorbing the impact noise before it even gets to you. It would also deaden the shouting somewhat.
https://www.fitnessequipmentireland.ie/shop/20mm-rubber-gym-flooring/?gclid=CjwKCAiA15vTBRAHEiwA7Snfc3hxcRZQKmC5zlAy9GQCWGFfCrgCIPQKzO-Xyxtn5JEsjKcU1WekORoC_6kQAvD_BwE

ELM327

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Children need sleep. A lot of sleep, compared to adults.

There's nothing worse than seeing a child deprived of sleep because some people have an ideological prejudice about using appropriate medications to make it possible. The kid just gets worse with no sleep.

I've seen it with an adult too: everyone thought it was fine for her to take anti-psychotic medications - until she moved into a nursing home and suddenly those very same meds were regarded as keeping here "doped up" and removed. No prizes guessing what happened to her after that.




The first step in any noise complaint is ALWAYS to talk to the adults who are responsible for the source of the noise. They cannot help if they do not know of your concerns. They may be at their wits end having tried everything already. But they may not be too - some become de-sensitised after living with the situation for years.

Court is the last option, and one you really really don't want. They cannot cure autism, but they can order the parents to find a solution to the anti-social behaviour - and it gets to court, that solution may well be residential care.

So medication and then if that doesn't work, get the court to take the child?

God. And I've seen some heartless inconsiderate posts online - but this is near the top. I stand by my prior comments.

GreeBo

ELM327 wrote: »

So medication and then if that doesn't work, get the court to take the child?

God. And I've seen some heartless inconsiderate posts online - but this is near the top. I stand by my prior comments.

What about the OP and any children they might have?

You cant just throw your hands up in the air and say "Sorry, its autism!"

ELM327

GreeBo wrote: »

What about the OP and any children they might have?

You cant just throw your hands up in the air and say "Sorry, its autism!"

I'm not.
But you can't take a child either because "sorry it's autism".
The solution I proposed was the best for all parties.

A lot of others are OTT and seriously ridiculous. Medication? Court? Take child away? At the end of the day I can assure you the parents are as aware/more aware of it than you.

listermint

challengemaster wrote: »

Noise complaint to district court.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

I think it's utterly ridiculous people suggesting the OP spend their own money on soundproofing, moving or anything other than the people causing the nuisance finding an appropriate solution.

I can only assume you are on the windup with that 'advice'.

bertsmom

OP I totally sympathise it's so horrible to be sleep deprived. Yes it is a tough situation for the parents next door and I'm sure it's hard to parent children with autism but at the end of the day you are entitled to a bit of peace in your own home.
First thing I would do is approach the parents, I would be sympathetic but firm. I sometimes find if you are too understanding you just get nowhere. I would give them a period of time to try and make some changes and if things get no better tell them the situation is not getting any better and you have to go the official route.
I get that the family may be stressed but it doesn't sound like they are taking any measures to keep the noise reasonable at the moment and it's not fair to have that level of noise just have to be put up with. Good luck OP

GreeBo

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm not.
But you can't take a child either because "sorry it's autism".

They child isn't/wouldn't be taken away because its autistic. It would be taken away (as a last resort) because the parents are unable to cope and provide the child and everyone involved with the required quality of life. The fact that the child has autism is irrelevant.
If the child was just being a sh1t would your suggestions be different?
The impact on the OP is just the same.

ELM327 wrote: »

A lot of others are OTT and seriously ridiculous. Medication? Court? Take child away? At the end of the day I can assure you the parents are as aware/more aware of it than you.

Medication is not an OTT response to severe autism, its a pretty standard response to try to reduce psychotic behaviour with Antipsychotic drugs.

Again, the parents of the child being more aware is feck all use to anyone else.
Thats exactly the "Sorry its autism!" response you said you are not giving.

ELM327

GreeBo wrote: »

They child isn't/wouldn't be taken away because its autistic. It would be taken away (as a last resort) because the parents are unable to cope and provide the child and everyone involved with the required quality of life. The fact that the child has autism is irrelevant.
If the child was just being a sh1t would your suggestions be different?
The impact on the OP is just the same.



Medication is not an OTT response to severe autism, its a pretty standard response to try to reduce psychotic behaviour with Antipsychotic drugs.

Again, the parents of the child being more aware is feck all use to anyone else.
Thats exactly the "Sorry its autism!" response you said you are not giving.

Autism, =/= psychotic though

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ELM327

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Oh I agree completely

In fact the first line of my first post in this thread contained the sentiments - I can see both sides.

I'm not blindly rowing in behind the autistic child. I'd be equally annoyed if I were the neighbours. But you have to live beside the neighbours regardless and if it goes down the court route you've an enemy living next door. Best to keep the neighbours on side. You never know when it might be needed,

you catch more flies with honey than vinegar

1641

GreeBo wrote: »

Medication is not an OTT response to severe autism, its a pretty standard response to try to reduce psychotic behaviour with Antipsychotic drugs.

Ant-psychotic medication is a pretty standard response to treat someone who has has been diagnosed with a psychosis. Some children with autism may develop psychosis (more than the general population), but most do not. Anti-psychotic medication is not - or certainly should not be - a pretty standard response to a child who is not psychotic (whether autistic or not). It may well have been a pretty standard response in old style psychiatric institutions (aka "the chemical cosh") but it is certainly not good practice. Anyway we have no way of knowing what treatments or diagnoses the children here may or may not have, and it is pointless speculating.

Op - I think your proposal for how to approach this initially in POST 33 is spot on. At least you will know more then. It is not going to be easy to resolve but hopefully you can begin to make progress.

GreeBo

ELM327 wrote: »

Autism, =/= psychotic though

I dont believe I said that?
I said Antipsychotic medicine is a standard treatment for the psychotic behaviours that some autistic people demonstrate. I believe the behaviour of the OP's neighbour would appear to fall into this category.

I'm not saying the child should be sedated as a first port of call, but I think its a silly response to run away from medication for autistic people, children especially.

I have seen firsthand the positive results it can bring.

GreeBo

1641 wrote: »

Anyway we have no way of knowing what treatments or diagnoses the children here may or may not have, and it is pointless speculating.

Again, I'm not at all advocating drugging the child out of existence, merely that medication is another avenue that should be explored, not cut off because of what happened in the past.


Bottom line is that the first port of call should be to talk to the neighbour.

TheChizler

Medication is of no relevance to the OP, it's between the parents, their child, and their medical professionals. It's all a moot point really.

ELM327

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont believe I said that?
I said Antipsychotic medicine is a standard treatment for the psychotic behaviours that some autistic people demonstrate. I believe the behaviour of the OP's neighbour would appear to fall into this category.

I'm not saying the child should be sedated as a first port of call, but I think its a silly response to run away from medication for autistic people, children especially.

I have seen firsthand the positive results it can bring.

You said that it was a typical reaction, autism and psychosis (otherwise why anti-psychotic medication).

As someone directly affected and indirectly affected by varying levels of autism, psychosis is not part of an autism diagnosis, and it's only a slighltly higher risk than the general populous.

TheChizler wrote: »

Medication is of no relevance to the OP, it's between the parents, their child, and their medical professionals. It's all a moot point really.

+1

Idbatterim

swapping bedrooms around rooms around might work to an extent. At ground level you could throw up a new brick wall, have the sockets mounted on the surface not recessed, you dont want more noise coming through... if the bedrooms cant be rearranged, something like another poster suggested, padding on the wall to soften the blows and perhaps then new stud partition on your side or more slabs on the existing partition... depending on how bad the noise actually is...

one other thing that would be very cheap. The parents get dirt cheap carpet the size of the wall, simply screw it into the ceiling rafters an inch or two from the wall and screw it onto floor etc.

GreeBo

ELM327 wrote: »

You said that it was a typical reaction, autism and psychosis (otherwise why anti-psychotic medication).

As someone directly affected and indirectly affected by varying levels of autism, psychosis is not part of an autism diagnosis, and it's only a slighltly higher risk than the general populous.


+1

Ah come on!
I said medication was not an OTT response after you said it was.

All I said was that antipsychotic medication is a typical response to try to reduce psychotic behaviour.

Thats =/= to me saying medication is a typical response to autism, not even close.

If you are trying to deny that medication is frequently, successfully used to improve the lives of people with and around those with autism then you are just plain wrong.

At this point we are way of topic so I will leave it there.

OP, talk to your neighbour, sympathise, suggest absorbant material for the adjoining walls, but dont let yourself be sympathised into no resolution to your very real problem.

ELM327

Idbatterim wrote: »

swapping bedrooms around rooms around might work to an extent. At ground level you could throw up a new brick wall, have the sockets mounted on the surface not recessed, you dont want more noise coming through... if the bedrooms cant be rearranged, something like another poster suggested, padding on the wall to soften the blows and perhaps then new stud partition on your side or more slabs on the existing partition... depending on how bad the noise actually is...

All this would be achieved through dialog with the parents a lot easier than through court.

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah come on!
I said medication was not an OTT response after you said it was.

All I said was that antipsychotic medication is a typical response to try to reduce psychotic behaviour.

Thats =/= to me saying medication is a typical response to autism, not even close.

If you are trying to deny that medication is frequently, successfully used to improve the lives of people with and around those with autism then you are just plain wrong.

At this point we are way of topic so I will leave it there.

OP, talk to your neighbour, sympathise, suggest absorbant material for the adjoining walls, but dont let yourself be sympathised into no resolution to your very real problem.

Medication yes, antipsychotic no.
Anyway I agree let's leave it at that. It's not necessarily related to the thread topic

wexie

ELM327 wrote: »

Medication yes, antipsychotic no.

Believe it or not but antipsychotics are used for things other than psychosis and there are probably more people taking them that are not suffering from psychosis than are....

EDIT : Would you have been quite so offended if we replace the term with 'anti anxiety medication'?

Idbatterim

talking to them is the obvious first solution. Secondly, would anyone actually sell to a potential buyer and leave them in this awful situation?

I would speak to neighbours and then if that doesnt work, take action myself, the country is a total and utter joke with relation to noise or taking action etc. If the talking doesnt work, Id take action myself. Moving might be a bit drastic, but it depends on a few factors...

Sleeper12

How has an accommodation & property thread ended up about medication a child may be or may not need / May or not already be on?

None of this is of any help to op.