People winning races now wouldn't have a look in 30 years ago

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

Kiernan and Hooper trained while working full-time, and that was the norm.

What was their job? Did their other half work if they had one?
If they had kids, who looked after them?

You keep giving bits of information, give it all so we can compare a 80's athlete to the modern day athlete. Ireland is very different country now, especially Dublin, how the hell can some one rent here and train full time ?

Full time athlete, no job and surviving in Ireland now is alot tougher

Chivito550

RayCun wrote: »

why is it then?
Here's the 1988 Ballycotton results, 47 runners under 55 minutes. About 10 of them from English clubs. One name I recognise (John Lenihan ran 50:57)

Why did they grind out the training? I doubt they got much media attention or financial support. I can only suppose that most of them had 'real' jobs.

Less people at sub elite level would take up running now compared to then as there’s much more options people have with their free time now (other niche sports popping up, other activities etc). Dublin for example is a much more vibrant place now with so much more to do than 30 years ago. Running is just one of many things people can do with their free time. It’s probably as simple as that.

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

What was their job? Did their other half work if they had one?
If they had kids, who looked after them?

You keep giving bits of information, give it all so we can compare a 80's athlete to the modern day athlete. Ireland is very different country now, especially Dublin, how the hell can some one rent here and train full time ?

Full time athlete, no job and surviving in Ireland now is alot tougher

Most of them worked. And I made that point earlier, the attitude then was that you worked and you trained, you didn't pick one or the other.

I don't know about kids, you'd have to talk to them.
I hate to get all ecoli on you :pac: but saying 'kids!' is a cop-out. Was there a sudden baby boom among distance runners since the 80s? They all decided that rather than train themselves, they would go to work on creating a new generation of runners? :pac: People have always had kids.

Duanington

RayCun wrote: »

Have you heard about his marathon debut in Dublin in 82?

Yes, read that one alright - thanks a mill

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

Most of them worked. And I made that point earlier, the attitude then was that you worked and you trained, you didn't pick one or the other.

I don't know about kids, you'd have to talk to them.
I hate to get all ecoli on you :pac: but saying 'kids!' is a cop-out. Was there a sudden baby boom among distance runners since the 80s? They all decided that rather than train themselves, they would go to work on creating a new generation of runners? :pac: People have always had kids.

I aint just saying kids, work and commute is a big thing and can't always run for your commute. For me example, i leave the house at 645am and not home till 7pm. Wife isn't home till 715pm. Time everything is organised, its 8pm or later. A good night sleep, you need to be in bed by 10pm! That's a non sport day for kids. For their sport days, I be lucky to be home by 8pm-830pm with them. I do fit in my running, but to be a serious runner, there is no time there. Tonight to fit in my run I won't be home till 9 ish, so wont see my kids, is that right? Nope, its very selfish of me I know.

If someone lives within 5 miles of work and work basic hours, life is easy then to get training, but most don't have that.

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

I don't know about kids, you'd have to talk to them.
I hate to get all ecoli on you :pac: but saying 'kids!' is a cop-out. Was there a sudden baby boom among distance runners since the 80s? They all decided that rather than train themselves, they would go to work on creating a new generation of runners? :pac: People have always had kids.

I hope that ecoli guy gets everything that's coming to him. :pac:

It's a lot harder to train to be a distance runner nowadays then it was in the 80s, as we have so many competing interests that didn't exist in the golden days. Netflix, Facebook, Game of Thrones, Strava, WhatsApp, mobile phones, low-cost travel, Ikea, Frappuccinos, Box-sets.... Just some of the modern day commitments that eat into available training time.

More seriously, little has changed across the two eras. Parents spend a lot more time with their children these days than they did in the 80s, where kids (like me), were given a gentle kick to the behind, and told not to return home until the sun has set. We prioritize our children's needs far more these days, ushering them from sport to sport and hobby to hobby, almost to spite the neglect of our own childhoods(;)). But with two working parents who are both runners, children eager to explore every sport ever conceived, you can still find enough time to meet training goals. You just needs to juggle schedules, sacrifice your children some modern day time-sucks, and be flexible about when you train - much as you needed to do in the 80s.

Final thought: If one has not ever gone out for a run at 11pm on a Friday evening, then one is not in a position to discuss not having enough time to train.

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

I aint just saying kids, work and commute is a big thing and can't always run for your commute. For me example, i leave the house at 645am and not home till 7pm. Wife isn't home till 715pm. Time everything is organised, its 8pm or later. A good night sleep, you need to be in bed by 10pm! That's a non sport day for kids. For their sport days, I be lucky to be home by 8pm-830pm with them. I do fit in my running, but to be a serious runner, there is no time there. Tonight to fit in my run I won't be home till 9 ish, so wont see my kids, is that right? Nope, its very selfish of me I know.

If someone lives within 5 miles of work and work basic hours, life is easy then to get training, but most don't have that.

The thread is not called "why is average runner such a lazy git?"
I'm not going to argue with you about your schedule, any more than I'd say everyone has to copy Jerry Kiernan's life.

But I don't think it is at all true to say that everyone is time-poor now, and everyone has to spend 12 hours a day either at work or in the car, and that is why people train less. I mean, obviously, it just isn't true.

Is it more true today than it was 30 years ago? I seriously doubt that too. You'd have to produce some evidence.

OOnegative

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Final thought: If one has not ever gone out for a run at 11pm on a Friday evening, then one is not in a position to discuss not having enough time to train.

Pffft, 11pm still practically day time. Many a morning I went out at 3/4am to get training in.

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

The thread is not called "why is average runner such a lazy git?"
I'm not going to argue with you about your schedule, any more than I'd say everyone has to copy Jerry Kiernan's life.

But I don't think it is at all true to say that everyone is time-poor now, and everyone has to spend 12 hours a day either at work or in the car, and that is why people train less. I mean, obviously, it just isn't true.

Is it more true today than it was 30 years ago? I seriously doubt that too. You'd have to produce some evidence.

Google the studies on it, we are working longer now than ever. Doesn't mean we are more productive though.
And i wasnt making the thread about me, but common sense will tell you people are spending more time travelling to work now than in the 80's.

Murph_D

average_runner wrote: »

Google the studies on it, we are working longer now than ever. Doesn't mean we are more productive though.
And i wasnt making the thread about me, but common sense will tell you people are spending more time travelling to work now than in the 80's.

It's true that many of us old enough to work in the 80s were spending little or no time traveling to work because we were unemployed. Except for the odd nixer. Shhh.

Mind you, it never occurred to me to take up running at the time. Was busy enough playing other sports, trying to find a job, and figuring out the best place to emigrate to.

Chivito550

I know a marathon runner at a very high level in Ireland who runs to and from work most days. Not a bad way to get the miles in without delving too much into family time and responsibilities. Commuting is hell in this city unless you live on the LUAS lines, so probably quicker running in many cases anyway.

Obviously this is not applicable to sprinters and field eventers.

Jakey Rolling

Around 1985/1986 I was training around the Meadows in Edinburgh.
I thought I was going well, hitting mile efforts around 5:00 pace, when a fella came breezing past me.
Really took the wind out of my sails!

Only when I met him coming the other way, I realised it was Allister Hutton, a 2:09:16 marathon man.
Allister held down a full time job as technician in Unversity, fitting his training and competition around it.
Still is the Scottish marathon record I guess, though Callum Hawkins should challenge it pretty soon.

RayCun

According to the census, average commuting time is 28 minutes. I assume each way.

Duanington

RayCun wrote: »

According to the census, average commuting time is 28 minutes. I assume each way.

Nationally? Surely its higher in the cities?

Chivito550

RayCun wrote: »

According to the census, average commuting time is 28 minutes. I assume each way.

Hahaha. No way is the average that short for Dublin. My commute from Ballinteer to city centre is 45-50 mins each way, (21 min walk, whatever waiting time, 20 mins LUAS, 2 min walk) and I would consider that an excellent commute time for Dublin. Would be 75 mins in the morning door to door if I got the bus despite the bus being 3 mins from my house.

RayCun

Duanington wrote: »

RayCun wrote: »

According to the census, average commuting time is 28 minutes. I assume each way.

Nationally? Surely its higher in the cities?

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6td/

Highest average commuting time in Meath and Kildare, 34 minutes.

Murph_D

Chivito550 wrote: »

Hahaha. No way is the average that short for Dublin. My commute from Ballinteer to city centre is 45-50 mins each way, (21 min walk, whatever waiting time, 20 mins LUAS, 2 min walk) and I would consider that an excellent commute time for Dublin. Would be 75 mins in the morning door to door if I got the bus despite the bus being 3 mins from my house.

You’re right. South Dublin average commute is higher. 31mins according to this CSO breakdown. Dublin City average is about the same as national average - which doesn’t surprise me, as it would be by far the largest group and would tend to skew the results. Dangerous to extrapolate too much from your own N=1.

Chivito550

Murph_D wrote: »

You’re right. South Dublin average commute is higher. 31mins according to this CSO breakdown. Dangerous to extrapolate too much from your own N=1 though.

Suppose I’m looking at it from a suburb to city centre point of view.

Murph_D

Chivito550 wrote: »

Suppose I’m looking at it from a suburb to city centre point of view.

Well I guess that’s why the average is a whole 3 mins higher. CSO data is the best we have!

Annie get your Run

RayCun wrote: »

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6td/

Highest average commuting time in Meath and Kildare, 34 minutes.

Not anyone travelling into the city obviously!!! Lucky gits :rolleyes:

average_runner

It takes 10 mins for the luas to get from Grafton Street to Westmoreland St in the morning. I usually walked quicker than it!!!!

A bus from Kilnamanagh will take anything from 45 mins to a hour to get to city centre. Luas from Tallaght is a good 45 mins also.

Traffic on the n4 is backed up beyond Maynooth, so god knows how long it takes them to get to work but it is not 25 mins.

North side is not much better either going by reports in the morning and then you have m50 car park.

TFBubendorfer

The one thing this thread shows is, a lot of people are very good at making excuses. So what if your commuting time is an hour? That's what it takes me as well, at least it would if I were taking either the Luas or driving. I did that for the first 3 days here, then I decided this was a monumental waste of time and started cycling instead, which incidentally is faster than either driving or public transport.

If you live anywhere within 10 miles of work you can always run into work, at least occasionally. There's your opportunity for training right there.

Live further away? Well, tough! How much time do you waste every evening watching absolute garbage in the telly? 2? 3? Just imagine how much training you could have done instead.

Fact is, people could train far, far more if they actually wanted to. Instead they are making excuses. For the vast majority it's a choice to spend hours stuck in traffic every week, not a necessity. It's a choice to vegetate in front of the idiot box every single evening, or to waste time on facebook, or even on boards. There are always alternatives if you're willing to move out of your comfort zone.

<rant over>

Testosterscone

Chivito550 wrote: »

Obviously this is not applicable to sprinters and field eventers.

While you may not be able to run mute what about cycling? Prob half your commute time and free up enough time for your gym days.

Have to agree with TBF regarding excuses if the commute is that killer why not go an hour early half the commute time and free up enough time for training before work. If it's a choice people don't wanna make that's fair but it is a choice if it's something you wanna do you make time like anything (be it tv ,hobbies, nights out or what ever)

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

It takes 10 mins for the luas to get from Grafton Street to Westmoreland St in the morning. I usually walked quicker than it!!!!

A bus from Kilnamanagh will take anything from 45 mins to a hour to get to city centre. Luas from Tallaght is a good 45 mins also.

Traffic on the n4 is backed up beyond Maynooth, so god knows how long it takes them to get to work but it is not 25 mins.

North side is not much better either going by reports in the morning and then you have m50 car park.

I go to Dawson and it is 2 mins from SSG to there. My hole it takes 8 minutes to go one more stop to Westmoreland. You are talking rubbish.

You are missing the point of it anyway. Even if somebody can almost walk the cross city as fast (which they can’t), old people can’t, disabled people cant, people don’t want to walk in sh1t weather, with loads of shopping etc.

Agree regarding commute times in general though.

Annie get your Run

+ 1 to the cycle to work suggestions. Train door to door for me is 1 hr 10 mins, bus similar. I can cycle it in 55-60 mins (12 miles) and I’m doing that in my recovery hr zone which has to benefit my training too. If I tried to drive it would be even longer I’d imagine.

Chivito550

Testosterscone wrote: »

While you may not be able to run mute what about cycling? Prob half your commute time and free up enough time for your gym days.

Have to agree with TBF regarding excuses if the commute is that killer why not go an hour early half the commute time and free up enough time for training before work. If it's a choice people don't wanna make that's fair but it is a choice if it's something you wanna do you make time like anything (be it tv ,hobbies, nights out or what ever)

I will not cycle in this city. I downright refuse to. The infrastructure is rubbish. If I lived in Amsterdam I would cycle every day. My Dutch friend lived here for 3 years and cycled everywhere (out of habit from home), and he said the infrastructure is appalling and he lost count of the amount of times he almost got knocked down. He rated it 3/10 in most parts with 0 being uncycleable and 10 being Amsterdam. No thank you. I value my safety.

Invest in proper infrastructure and I will use it.

By the way, not everybody has flexible hours to go early and leave early.

My commute is fine, but commuting in Dublin for many is horrific. I sympathize fully.

I agree with your general point though. If somebody wants to train, they will find the time.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

I go to Dawson and it is 2 mins from SSG to there. My hole it takes 8 minutes to go one more stop to Westmoreland. You are talking rubbish.

You are missing the point of it anyway. Even if somebody can almost walk the cross city as fast (which they can’t), old people can’t, disabled people cant, people don’t want to walk in sh1t weather, with loads of shopping etc.

Agree regarding commute times in general though.

Try it at 830 am and you will see. It get stuck at trinity for about 3 mins with lights there. Most mornings I will walk faster than it. From top of Grafton St to Westmoreland stop.

Anyhow we leave this where it is.