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Renting Questions - Help Needed

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  • 22-01-2018 8:21pm
    #1
    tedheavenly
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭


    Hi guys, I have two questions that I would love your opinions on

    1. I have been living in the same property since February 2016 with my partner in Dublin City Centre. We initially signed a year long lease. When this expired February 2017, we never received a second lease. We also have no rent book.

    Can my landlord ask me to leave come February? I.e. can he refuse to have us as tenants, or do I have a certain number of days notice he must fulfil if he decides he does not want to renew us as tenants? Late last year he had the property valued with the intention to sell, but heard nothing about it since, and am beginning to stress about the situation the closer it gets with rising rent prices in Dublin. I am presuming I am entitled to 56 days notice, but am not sure

    2. When we signed the initial lease, it was actually with a property management company (a small outfit, husband and wife team, who I knew before we got the apartment) acting on behalf of the owner of the property who reportedly lives in Australia.

    We now have an issue with our hot water boiler, and the husband and wife property management company are now telling us that they have not been paid for their services from the owner of the apartment in Australia for the last 12 months, and told us we would have to pay for the repair of anything in the apartment from here on in. The lease we signed was between this property management company and ourselves - the owner of the apartment is mentioned nowhere. What can I do?

    I am presuming if I deducted the cost of repairs from my rent (direct debit) it would not go down well with the owner of the property. Am I even legally entitled to do this?


Comments

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    #2
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    1. You're on a Part IV tenancy you can't be evicted on a whim, but you can be given proper notice if the LL intends to sell. This could happen at anytime really as there is probably a break clause in the fixed term lease.

    2. You can't withhold rent but you can get the repair done and lodge a complaint with the RTB. I would get three written quotes and go with the cheapest keeping the evidence.

    Sounds like yer man has just left everything and naffed off to Aus. He's ultimately responsible for repairs and I can understand where the agents are coming from. You'd only ever really need an agent in year one as you go on to Part IV after six months anyway so there is no need to keep signing yearly leases.


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    #3
    KellyXX
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭KellyXX


    Remember that you have to pay the 20% of rent to revenue yourself if the agent isn't collecting it too.


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    #4
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    tedheavenly wrote: »
    The lease we signed was between this property management company and ourselves - the owner of the apartment is mentioned nowhere.
    Who do you pay hte rent to? The landlord or the management company?


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    #5
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    If he is no longer paying the management company who can approach the OP should they decide to stop paying rent, seeing as the LL is in Australia, and the OP signed leases with the ManCo?

    Hypothetically speaking of course...


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    #6
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Pelvis wrote: »
    If he is no longer paying the management company who can approach the OP should they decide to stop paying rent, seeing as the LL is in Australia, and the OP signed leases with the ManCo?

    Hypothetically speaking of course...

    Hypothetically speaking, the postman with the notice of termination.


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    #7
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    Graham wrote: »
    Hypothetically speaking, the postman with the notice of termination.

    And if the op hypothetically ignores the notice of termination?


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    #8
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Pelvis wrote: »
    And if the op hypothetically ignores the notice of termination?

    It's not a proportional response and it has the potential to leave the OP homeless. Pretty dumb idea, particularly as the OP appears to want to stay legally in the property.

    Mod Note
    No more suggestions to stop paying rent (hypothetical or otherwise).


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    #9
    tedheavenly
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tedheavenly


    KellyXX wrote: »
    Remember that you have to pay the 20% of rent to revenue yourself if the agent isn't collecting it too.

    Why would it be up to me to pay the revenue?


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    #10
    tedheavenly
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tedheavenly


    the_syco wrote: »
    Who do you pay hte rent to? The landlord or the management company?

    Money into Landlords bank account


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    #11
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    tedheavenly wrote: »
    Why would it be up to me to pay the revenue?

    Because you have a non-resident landlord and you’re not paying via an agency/management company I’m afraid.


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    #12
    tedheavenly
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tedheavenly


    Graham wrote: »
    Because you have a non-resident landlord and you’re not paying via an agency/management company I’m afraid.

    Thanks for that Graham, I had no idea! Could you point me to any more information online where I could read more about that if you wouldn't mind?


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    #13
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Take a look at these:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/tenants-paying-rent-to-the-revenue-1.3149410

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/retainable-charge/index.aspx

    Just to highlight there are circumstances under which it's not necessary.


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    #14
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    It'll be interesting to see the landlords response when you tell him of this.


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    #15
    Ashbx
    Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    Graham wrote: »
    Take a look at these:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/tenants-paying-rent-to-the-revenue-1.3149410

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/retainable-charge/index.aspx

    Just to highlight there are circumstances under which it's not necessary.

    How have I never heard this? I am in my rented accommodation 7 years and my landlord has always lived in the States. Now I pay my rent to his mother...who is Ireland. Does that exempt me from this?

    Seems completely ridiculous that we have sort out the landlords tax affairs. I wonder how strict they are on this considering I have never heard this in the 8 years I have been renting.


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    #16
    KellyXX
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭KellyXX


    Ashbx wrote: »
    How have I never heard this? I am in my rented accommodation 7 years and my landlord has always lived in the States. Now I pay my rent to his mother...who is Ireland. Does that exempt me from this?

    Seems completely ridiculous that we have sort out the landlords tax affairs. I wonder how strict they are on this considering I have never heard this in the 8 years I have been renting.

    His mother is his agent. You are fine.


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    #17
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Who has your deposit, sounds like you LL is collecting the rent but isn't paying tax or management fees, good chance he's defaulting on the mortgage too. If he's in Oz there is very little he can do to get you out. If he's not served proper notice just tell him to read the RTB site and follow proper procedures. Take a look at your water tank, good chance there is a thermostat on it and it's got knocked so you aren't heating the water also good chance there is an electric immersion which will cost more to run but get you by.


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    #18
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    1. You're on a Part IV tenancy you can't be evicted on a whim, but you can be given proper notice if the LL intends to sell. This could happen at anytime really as there is probably a break clause in the fixed term lease.

    You'd only ever really need an agent in year one as you go on to Part IV after six months anyway so there is no need to keep signing yearly leases.

    sorry i dont understand your point. the lease no longer exists, and it is now superseded by the Part 4. the LL can now only evict you for 6 specific reasons. withholding rent is one of those 6, so be careful there.


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    #19
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    sorry i dont understand your point. the lease no longer exists, and it is now superseded by the Part 4. the LL can now only evict you for 6 specific reasons. withholding rent is one of those 6, so be careful there.

    OP made the point that he never got a new lease or rent book. Even if he had got yearly leases there would have likely been a break clause. If there wasn't (a break clause) the Part IV is overridden by the lease in that regard.


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    #20
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    OP made the point that he never got a new lease or rent book. Even if he had got yearly leases there would have likely been a break clause. If there wasn't (a break clause) the Part IV is overridden by the lease in that regard.

    Sorry maybe I'm missing something, but that's not making any sense to me. My understanding is once the tenant is in the property 6 months the Part IV comes into effect,, and is protected by such.


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    #21
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    Sorry maybe I'm missing something, but that's not making any sense to me. My understanding is once the tenant is in the property 6 months the Part IV comes into effect,, and is protected by such.

    After six months a part IV tenancy comes into effect, as I mentioned in my initial post. The OP raised not getting a subsequent lease as a concern. I dealt with that concern. I think what is confusing you is the interaction of fixed term leases and Part IVs?

    If the LL gives a fixed term lease when a Part IV exists then the LL is bound by the terms of the FTL if they are better than the ones on a Part IV. So for example should a LL wish to sell, and he's given the tenant a FTL without a break clause he can't.

    I hope that clears it all up for you.


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    #22
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    After six months a part IV tenancy comes into effect, as I mentioned in my initial post. The OP raised not getting a subsequent lease as a concern. I dealt with that concern. I think what is confusing you is the interaction of fixed term leases and Part IVs?

    If the LL gives a fixed term lease when a Part IV exists then the LL is bound by the terms of the FTL if they are better than the ones on a Part IV. So for example should a LL wish to sell, and he's given the tenant a FTL without a break clause he can't.

    I hope that clears it all up for you.

    but the OP never received a 2nd Lease so he need not worry about the terms of a hypothetical FTL.
    At this point all he/we need focus on are the Part IV tenancy rights as to do otherwise will only serve to obfuscate the matter.


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    #23
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    I'd guess the tax rules are to enable enforcement; Revenue can't chase down landlords residing outside of Ireland for taxes owed, so they put the onus on someone they can come after, the tenant. Makes it more likely they'll actually see some money (assuming the tenant even knows about the law, of course; it's rather tricky since the landlord obviously has a material interest in "forgetting" to mention that little matter to his tenant and if the tenant is working directly with the landlord, there's no one else involved in the process to speak up about it...).


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    #24
    justfillmein
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭justfillmein


    Graham wrote: »

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/tenants-paying-rent-to-the-revenue-1.3149410

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/retainable-charge/index.aspx

    :eek: I never knew this


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