What % of pple on the dole deserve to be on it?

splinter65

HandsomeBob wrote: »

Nah all I'm saying is that it's pretty sad if someone who can't cope with their job is taking out their anger at someone on the dole. Get another job if that's the case, and debt is not an excuse either for staying in a high paying job that you're miserable in.

My job comes with its difficulties but not once have I got bitter about people on the scratch. The reason is because I'm a grown ****ing man who made his own choices.

I don’t know why you think that it’s only people who are miserable/can’t cope in their own job who are resentful of long term dolers.
People see hospital waiting lists, they see not enough Gardai, they see huge potholes in roads, they see loads of things that we need to do but we can’t afford to because we are spending €20 billion per year on welfare.
If you jobs that need to be filled and healthy young people walking around doing nothing then there’s some savings to be mind that might free up some of that money.
That’s the problem people have.

Brendan Bendar

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know why you think that it’s only people who are miserable/can’t cope in their own job who are resentful of long term dolers.
People see hospital waiting lists, they see not enough Gardai, they see huge potholes in roads, they see loads of things that we need to do but we can’t afford to because we are spending €20 billion per year on welfare.
If you jobs that need to be filled and healthy young people walking around doing nothing then there’s some savings to be mind that might free up some of that money.
That’s the problem people have.

And there is the problem.

There are people out there, the Soladirity crowd, the Trotters, who cannot seem to understand that stuff has to be paid for.

That there is a finite source of resources to pay for state services.

It's not if infinite.

If there are abuses in sections, it mitigates against the resources available to tackle other genuine areas of need.

Why can’t the lefties and the Trotters understand this basic concept.

koumi

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

And there is the problem.

There are people out there, the Soladirity crowd, the Trotters, who cannot seem to understand that stuff has to be paid for.

That there is a finite source of resources to pay for state services.

It's not if infinite.

If there are abuses in sections, it mitigates against the resources available to tackle other genuine areas of need.

Why can’t the lefties and the Trotters understand this basic concept.

If we were smart enough to understand the concept we would probably have jobs

batistuta9

Rory28 wrote: »

We have no right to force someone into a room with a bunch of randoms just so they can claim what we are all entitled too. If they are refusing upskilling or training then by all means cut or suspend their welfare but just because they are on the welfare does not mean we have any agency over their day to day as long as they are looking for work.

Have a look at the state benefits forum, there's 2 or 3 agencies forcing people into 'jobs' like that.
Dead end jobs, standing around doing nothing all day, etc.

But at least the poor bastards are up out of their beds & miserable like the majority of the workforce.

fin12

The_Brood wrote: »

I am sorry but the bolded part is completely not true. First of all, only people who have been on the dole for over a year get placed on those programs, and the majority have been on it for much longer than that. So that is an important distinction. They're not just herding people off the streets.

Second of all, you are put forth only for jobs that you want to do, and those that match your experience and qualifications. There is absolutely no way shape or form they can do anything to "punish" you for not wanting to do a particular job. What is more, temporary jobs do not check anyone's list - only full-time long term employment passes. These are the facts, not what you are claiming.

You are portraying yourself as someone who is eagerly trying to find work who had a bad experience with those agencies - if so, count yourself among a small percentage, because many who end up there will do anything not to work.

Whether badly managed or not, these agencies are some of the few actually finding unemployed people work.

I'm reading that article on Finland - it does not clarify, is the "universal" basic income for all people? So employed people will also be being paid that monthly sum (which comes from their own taxes...)? Because if it's only for unemployed people...then I fail to see how it is any different from any other social welfare system - except that it imposes even less expectations on people to search for work.

That is not true that people are only placed on Turas nua after being on the dole 12 months. I was on the dole 2 weeks when i was sent to Turas Nua.

splinter65

From what I can see, young people who have lost their job and shortly after find themselves in TN/Seetec don’t have a problem with the concept.
It’s the long term dolers that are outraged.

Rory28

splinter65 wrote: »

From what I can see, young people who have lost their job and shortly after find themselves in TN/Seetec don’t have a problem with the concept.
It’s the long term dolers that are outraged.

I'd put that down to familiar settings. They are just out of school/college and thats what it feels like.

El Weirdo

splinter65 wrote: »

That’s fine but if people have been 9 months without finding a job in our current economy then I think it’s a good idea if they are given the opportunity to get back in a work like routine by making the added condition of attending either the men’s shed or some other community effort which may be of benefit to both the claimant and the environment .

You mean like some sort of community employment scheme? You'd think someone would have thought of that before, wouldn't you?

Doctor Jimbob

splinter65 wrote: »

From what I can see, young people who have lost their job and shortly after find themselves in TN/Seetec don’t have a problem with the concept.
It’s the long term dolers that are outraged.

I have a problem with the concept because: a) They have done absolutely nothing over the course of three months to help me find work and b) I know people who have been blocked from going on CE schemes because they're on jobpath.

I want to work. I'm fed up being on the dole. I've applied for countless jobs over these few months of unemployment and when I get any word back at all it's "no thanks". I'd happily do a CE scheme for the sake of something else to do with my time along with the springboard course I'm working on, although I'd prefer a full time job. Instead I have to go to riveting powerpoint presentations such as "what is a CV" and "how do I write a cover letter". It's a waste of time I could be spending actually looking for work.

Edit: I know there are some people who complain about these things because they just don't want to work, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.

splinter65

El Weirdo wrote: »

You mean like some sort of community employment scheme? You'd think someone would have thought of that before, wouldn't you?

Yes the CE Scheme or TUS or maybe Men’s Shed for those who have absolutely no work place experience and may have difficulties initially adjusting to taking instruction and correction from an authority figure.

koumi

I officially wipe my hands clean of the world and submit my DA application, the relief is just a beautiful thing. enjoy work folks

ToddyDoody

I' ve always wondered why we don't force everyone on the dole more than a year into the army. Surely that'd solve most problems.

splinter65

koumi wrote: »

I officially wipe my hands clean of the world and submit my DA application, the relief is just a beautiful thing. enjoy work folks

Hold off on the relief until you are actually awarded, the disappointment can be flooring .