Running slow v’s HR

Slideways

Small bit of background. 37yr old male who has been running for about 13 years.
First 12 of them was just aimless constantly trying to beat my previous time every day. Not clever I know..

Since I met my current GF she convinced me of the error of my ways, I got a coach and trained and completed my first marathon but at a cost. The coach I had put too much of an emphasis on intervals and the body just wasn’t able for it.

I’m now aiming to train by HR but have noticed an anomaly. My Z3 HR according to my Garmin maxes at 152. Running at 5:30/km pace I can hold this for a while but it gradually starts to rise and I end up running 6:15 to try and keep it down.
The other day I just said f&@k it and upped the pace. At 4:30km I was only touching 157.

Is this normal or an I just running reall inefficiently at slow speed?

adrian522

Have you set the zones yourself or are they just the defaults? Do you know your max HR? IF you are going to train by HR you will need to get these figures correct (or close to it) rather than just using the Garmin defaults.

Keeks

Some good info in this thread


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057775431

Slideways

My max HR was 185 the last time I tested it. Regularly achieve 41-44 over night while sleeping according to my Garmin

That’s putting my easy run at 145ish which is smack bang in the green band on the Garmin. I just cannot run and keep it there. Even doing more than 6min km. After 8 or so the HR will start to rise and settle in the mind 150s

It’s bloody frustrating. Last June I ran 10k in 40:04 so this feels like I am just going backward

rom

Slideways wrote: »

My max HR was 185 the last time I tested it. Regularly achieve 41-44 over night while sleeping according to my Garmin

That’s putting my easy run at 145ish which is smack bang in the green band on the Garmin. I just cannot run and keep it there. Even doing more than 6min km. After 8 or so the HR will start to rise and settle in the mind 150s

It’s bloody frustrating. Last June I ran 10k in 40:04 so this feels like I am just going backward

https://philmaffetone.com/fatigue-cardiac-drift/

Slideways

Interesting article, cheers ROM

jonnner

Are you still recovering from the Marathon you mentioned?
Are you at what you would consider a good level of fitness for yourself right now, putting in consistent mileage?
Are you running in crazy Australian temperatures?! (as per your profile location).
These are things to could be affecting you.
I found it hard to keep in my recovery HR zone when returning from a post marathon rest. When fitness came back it was no longer a problem.
When you're at a good level of running fitness cardiac drift is usually only a factor on long runs.

Slideways

The marathon was last May so think that is long gone.
Yeah, I’m pretty fit now, have cut back on the running a bit and added in some cycling. Did an interval set last week and it was better than when I was at my peak before the marathon

Yup, it’s hot here. Never below 28c so even in a post dawn run it’s still sweat city but I’m fairly acclimatised to it. I don’t think it’s a leading factor

jonnner

Are you using a watch with an optical wrist monitor or a chest strap?
If its a wrist monitor it could be off. Mine sometimes gives higher readings when my skin is wet (rain in my case, sweat in yours!)

Slideways

A watch (Fenix 5)

I’ve even trimmed the arm hair so it doesn’t get in the way of the sensor. Might give the cheat strap another go and see if there’s a difference

jameshayes

Slideways wrote: »

A watch (Fenix 5)

I’ve even trimmed the arm hair so it doesn’t get in the way of the sensor. Might give the cheat strap another go and see if there’s a difference

I find the watch sensor isn't very accurate - for me it seems to guess readings. It also seems to be affected by sweat

TFBubendorfer

jonnner wrote: »

Are you using a watch with an optical wrist monitor or a chest strap?
If its a wrist monitor it could be off. Mine sometimes gives higher readings when my skin is wet (rain in my case, sweat in yours!)

That's unlikely, to be honest. If it were the HR monitor you would see spikes and odd jumps in the numbers. A gradual increase in HR is much more likely the result of actual heart rate drift, and the reason for that is basically lack of fitness (not trying to sound harsh - been there myself)

Annie get your Run

I find the optical HR on my (FR 735xt) very accurate for what it's worth.

Slideways

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That's unlikely, to be honest. If it were the HR monitor you would see spikes and odd jumps in the numbers. A gradual increase in HR is much more likely the result of actual heart rate drift, and the reason for that is basically lack of fitness (not trying to sound harsh - been there myself)

Cheers for the reply. I figured that a faulty reading would not be linear but this is. Every once in a while on the bike I can see where it has dropped the ball and there’s a large correction in the HR despite no increase/decrease in pace or elevstopn

jonnner

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That's unlikely, to be honest. If it were the HR monitor you would see spikes and odd jumps in the numbers. A gradual increase in HR is much more likely the result of actual heart rate drift, and the reason for that is basically lack of fitness (not trying to sound harsh - been there myself)

It happened me at the weekend. Running in that horrible rain we had Sunday morning. Linear increase in heart rate which by the end was way off. Was using optical hr sensor.
But if it’s happening all the time it’s fitness. Chest strap will confirm

TFBubendorfer

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

A gradual increase in HR is much more likely the result of actual heart rate drift, and the reason for that is basically lack of fitness (not trying to sound harsh - been there myself)

Actually, after thinking about it a bit more, since you are running in at least 28 degrees the cause is most likely to be dehydration. I know you said you are used and adapted to running in those conditions but there is no way to avoid sweating a lot when running in those temperatures, and one side-effect of dehydration is an increased HR.

demfad

Slideways wrote: »

Small bit of background. 37yr old male who has been running for about 13 years.
First 12 of them was just aimless constantly trying to beat my previous time every day. Not clever I know..

Since I met my current GF she convinced me of the error of my ways, I got a coach and trained and completed my first marathon but at a cost. The coach I had put too much of an emphasis on intervals and the body just wasn’t able for it.

I’m now aiming to train by HR but have noticed an anomaly. My Z3 HR according to my Garmin maxes at 152. Running at 5:30/km pace I can hold this for a while but it gradually starts to rise and I end up running 6:15 to try and keep it down.
The other day I just said f&@k it and upped the pace. At 4:30km I was only touching 157.

Is this normal or an I just running reall inefficiently at slow speed?

152 is about 77-8% of your HRR reserve (184-42) * 77ish = 152

Marathon intensity is 75+ % of HRR.

I would jog or walk for 3-5 mins when the HR starts climbing and then go again. You need to extend running time at this intensity.

Do a few strides after these runs for efficiency.

Are you doing long runs at the moment? If you're not it may affect endurance and heat tolerance (after a period running).

You also need to develop a lower/easier gear that is also efficient. If marathon effort is a very easy effort now its a sign of lack of fitness.

Slowly build it up in a controlled way at varying intensities/HRs. Dont go above that 180% zone except for short periods of time and for strides, for now.