Teacher shortage - how are schools coping?

r93kaey5p2izun

How are your schools coping with the shortage of teachers? Things are really falling apart in my school, so wondering how others are faring.

We're not doing too badly in terms of cover for maternity leave etc (though some classes don't have a qualified teacher for every class period in Irish, French and Maths), but we are in dire straits for day-to-day cover for shorter absences. All trips and events have been cancelled.We have absolutely nobody for some classes. They are being split up among other classes leaving us with 35+ in the room and it's seriously affecting teaching and learning. Some groups are left with just the teacher next door popping in and out to keep an eye which is far from ideal and is a pain when you're trying to get on with your own lessons. Everyone is reaching their S&S limit. The part time teachers are already doing over 22 hours and there's problems claiming for them so they're being asked to wait for payment til the following month.

It's really affecting the school, teachers and students alike. How are other schools managing?

TheDriver

Barely coping, barely. There's lots of work and no one to do it

rainbowtrout

Finding it hard to get subs in general. Irish is next to impossible, currently have a retired principal teaching Irish. Nothing wrong with that, but no active teachers available. German teachers are rare at the best of times, but struggle there too. Have a dip student currently in teaching maths, and another retired teacher in for music. Lucky to have them all really.

On top of that we have major problems with our ETB paying subs,sometimes 6-8 weeks and ridiculous issues that 'they can't be found in the system' even if they have subbed with us before, because someone has spelled their name wrong and they seem incapable of searching for them by school, pps number or any other identifier. One sub left before christmas as she wasn't being paid - the ETB then sent her a 15 page form that they said she must fill before she would get paid, so she said screw it, went to a neighbouring town worked the week in the school there and got paid on Friday.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Finding it hard to get subs in general. Irish is next to impossible, currently have a retired principal teaching Irish. Nothing wrong with that, but no active teachers available. German teachers are rare at the best of times, but struggle there too. Have a dip student currently in teaching maths, and another retired teacher in for music. Lucky to have them all really.

On top of that we have major problems with our ETB paying subs,sometimes 6-8 weeks and ridiculous issues that 'they can't be found in the system' even if they have subbed with us before, because someone has spelled their name wrong and they seem incapable of searching for them by school, pps number or any other identifier. One sub left before christmas as she wasn't being paid - the ETB then sent her a 15 page form that they said she must fill before she would get paid, so she said screw it, went to a neighbouring town worked the week in the school there and got paid on Friday.

Is everyone reaching the S&S quota soon,
What's the max hours again?
I've forgotten to keep track

If you kept doing the slots and your hours quota is full would you get the sub rate?

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

Is everyone reaching the S&S quota soon,
What's the max hours again?
I've forgotten to keep track

If you kept doing the slots and your hours quota is full would you get the sub rate?

I'm going to hit my quota soon. It's 43 hours. I do a break and lunch every week so that's 55 minutes. Even allowing for 32 weeks of that for the school year it amounts to about 29 hours. For the remaining 14 or so hours left for subbing classes I can do about 21 classes. I think as of this week I have about 15 done.

One of my slots is second class monday morning and I've been hit for it nearly every week. I don't think I've had that class free since about early-mid november.

mirrorwall14

We have had unqualified Irish teachers teaching full timetables from September to Christmas. Last year we had a Dip and unqualified in maths classes, the VP back in teaching maths and one group untaught for at least 6 weeks. Day to day we are coping with cover etc though I’m not sure if everyone has been counting their S and S

evolving_doors

I'm afraid everyone's mistaken. There's no shortage.

Fall in applications for key second-level teaching courses
Department of Education insists there is no overall problem with teacher supply

mirrorwall14

evolving_doors wrote: »

I'm afraid everyone's mistaken. There's no shortage.

Fall in applications for key second-level teaching courses
Department of Education insists there is no overall problem with teacher supply

Must have completely misinterpreted the unqualified ‘teachers’ in our school....

BorneTobyWilde

Hire taller teachers.

The_Valeyard

And their solution is to get rid of career breaks and reduce sick leave.....so discourage more people from entering the profession :rolleyes::rolleyes:

byhookorbycrook

And don't forget this one:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/plans-to-attract-homemakers-to-teaching-under-consideration-1.3263177

James Bond Junior

I've been denied two courses so far this year as we simply didn't have the man power to let me go nor space to safely split my class. This is primary. I can see it getting worse before it gets better. I can't imagine how hard secondary are coping.

r93kaey5p2izun

There is talk of TYs being told to stay at home for an afternoon or a day too. We have nobody to even stand in the room and supervise. It's a health and safety issue at this point, even aside from the impact on actual teaching and learning with classes of absent teachers not being taught and classes of other teachers being delayed and constantly interrupted to split up unattended groups, check the next door room, or try rearrange desks to squeeze in extra bodies.

I wonder about extra paid S&S when we reach our quota. Several teachers opted out in my school and many more would have if they had the choice. I don't think they will get many takers.

Timistry

Retired teachers should not be allowed teach. Once your out your out.

There are many newly qualified teachers that cant find work due to such policies.

rainbowtrout

Timistry wrote: »

Retired teachers should not be allowed teach. Once your out your out.

There are many newly qualified teachers that cant find work due to such policies.

Principal in my school rang a very long list of teachers to try and get subs for various subjects. ETB advertised some of the jobs up to four times without a single application. He was left with no choice but to hire retired teachers. It was that or leave the classes sit without a teacher for the next 5 months.

These weren't jobs for 4 or 5 hours either. They were 6 month maternity contracts on 17-22 hours.

judeboy101

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

How are your schools coping with the shortage of teachers? Things are really falling apart in my school, so wondering how others are faring.

We're not doing too badly in terms of cover for maternity leave etc (though some classes don't have a qualified teacher for every class period in Irish, French and Maths), but we are in dire straits for day-to-day cover for shorter absences. All trips and events have been cancelled.We have absolutely nobody for some classes. They are being split up among other classes leaving us with 35+ in the room and it's seriously affecting teaching and learning. Some groups are left with just the teacher next door popping in and out to keep an eye which is far from ideal and is a pain when you're trying to get on with your own lessons. Everyone is reaching their S&S limit. The part time teachers are already doing over 22 hours and there's problems claiming for them so they're being asked to wait for payment til the following month.

It's really affecting the school, teachers and students alike. How are other schools managing?

Every bom by law should have a H&s policy most of what you have said would violate that esp teacher "popping in" . Your bom rep can ask for a egm of bom where those issues are presented and if not immediately remedied by management school needs to be shut or only exam years in til fixed. Otherwise report anon to Tulsa, dept ed and joe Duffy.

Shaungoater

rainbowtrout wrote:

These weren't jobs for 4 or 5 hours either. They were 6 month maternity contracts on 17-22 hours.

rainbowtrout wrote:

Principal in my school rang a very long list of teachers to try and get subs for various subjects. ETB advertised some of the jobs up to four times without a single application. He was left with no choice but to hire retired teachers. It was that or leave the classes sit without a teacher for the next 5 months.

Our school in exactly the same way, can't even get an English teacher for 22 hours which was unheard of a year or so ago. Our deputy is taking four classes at a time in the main hall

man_no_plan

Timistry wrote: »

There are many newly qualified teachers that cant find work due to such policies.

Will you send me their names please, we have a full time role we haven't filled and I have rang about 50 teachers who are all employed.

Retired teachers shouldn't get first call but if there's nobody else to do it I don't think it's outrageous.

fade out

The_Valeyard wrote: »

And their solution is to get rid of career breaks and reduce sick leave.....so discourage more people from entering the profession :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I only heard a snippet on the news today about career breaks. Are they seriously considering bringing this in?? I’ve applied for mine after saving for 2 years to go travelling. Worried I won’t get it now.

Seannew1

Nothing will be done.
Only thing that will provoke a reaction from government: When there is no teacher, ring parents to come in and collect their kids and bring them home.

HONKEY TONK

Why would you need sub teachers. Where are the full time teachers who work in your schools?

happywithlife

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Why would you need sub teachers. Where are the full time teachers who work in your schools?

Seriously??
Teachers can get sick too you know
Hospital.appointments
Unavoidable family commitments
In service/ training days
Secondered to JCT etc
Out correcting with SEC

r93kaey5p2izun

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Why would you need sub teachers. Where are the full time teachers who work in your schools?

There's currently 4 out with flu, one hospitalised. That's unusual but with 80+ teachers there will always be some sick leave. But cover is needed for matches, trips, activities, teachers organising LCVP recordings, rehearsals etc. Programmes like TY and LCA in particular involve a lot of trips and events and teachers have to be freed up to accompany them.

Also some positions have not been filled. So somebody has to supervise those classes.

HONKEY TONK

happywithlife wrote: »

Seriously??
Teachers can get sick too you know
Hospital.appointments
Unavoidable family commitments
In service/ training days
Secondered to JCT etc
Out correcting with SEC

So you expect people to sit at home waiting for a call to get a day's work in the events listed above ?

rainbowtrout

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Why would you need sub teachers. Where are the full time teachers who work in your schools?

Ever heard of maternity leave? Sick leave? Kids being brought to football matches etc, and the classes of the accompanying teachers needing cover?

At one point in December we had 3 teachers leaving to go on maternity leave and a further 2 already out on maternity leave at that stage, as well as a teacher out with a long term illness.


And this is before the examination period kicks in with orals and practicals starting in March/April/May and teachers needing to be released for the exams.

happywithlife

I personally don't no
But short term casual subbing has always existed not sure what your problem is with that
Not all the above is short term either some would be longer term
Not quite sure where you're going/coming from with your posts?

HONKEY TONK

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

There's currently 4 out with flu, one hospitalised. That's unusual but with 80+ teachers there will always be some sick leave. But cover is needed for matches, trips, activities, teachers organising LCVP recordings, rehearsals etc. Programmes like TY and LCA in particular involve a lot of trips and events and teachers have to be freed up to accompany them.

Also some positions have not been filled. So somebody has to supervise those classes.

Again. People are not going to sit at home waiting for a call . I would think people who become teachers want full time employment, not to be some type of stand by teacher. Isn't it the principles responsibility to coordinate this.

I don't know why people here are blaming the Government.

If you have FTE roles then recruitment is needed to fill the roles.

If you have activities to cover them the Principle should coordinate cover

Jimbob1977

There really needs to be a drive to get more men into teaching, if humanly possible. It won't be easy.

Less requirement for maternity leave. More stability on the roster.

If the boot was on the other foot (like STEM), there would be a definite State campaign to boost female participation.

TheDriver

Timistry wrote: »

Retired teachers should not be allowed teach. Once your out your out.

There are many newly qualified teachers that cant find work due to such policies.

Oh my God, I must have been looking at the wrong list that I exhaust very quickly.

HONKEY TONK

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ever heard of maternity leave? Sick leave? Kids being brought to football matches etc, and the classes of the accompanying teachers needing cover?

At one point in December we had 3 teachers leaving to go on maternity leave and a further 2 already out on maternity leave at that stage, as well as a teacher out with a long term illness.


And this is before the examination period kicks in with orals and practicals starting in March/April/May and teachers needing to be released for the exams.

5 teachers out on Maternity leave?

r93kaey5p2izun

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Again. People are not going to sit at home waiting for a call . I would think people who become teachers want full time employment, not to be some type of stand by teacher. Isn't it the principles responsibility to coordinate this.

I don't know why people here are blaming the Government.

If you have FTE roles then recruitment is needed to fill the roles.

If you have activities to cover them the Principle should coordinate cover

I don't think you understand how schools are run or what's involved with managing a school day to day. As for subbing, well, it's a requirement the world over and I can guarantee you we all did plenty of it to gain experience before getting a contract. As for recruitment and coordinating cover - have you any advice on how to successfully sort this within the remit of school budgets and allocations? Because principals and management bodies countrywide are all out of ideas.