Teacher shortage - how are schools coping?

spurious

jaffa20 wrote: »

When i thought about becoming a teacher 8 or 9 years ago, there was too many teachers but now there is a shortage... What is going on? I considered it recently but then i saw that the hdip has now being replaced by a 2 year course!! Also, reading this thread would put anyone off becoming a teacher.

There isn't a shortage of teachers, there is a shortage of people to do sub work and part contracts. There is an over supply of teachers, which is why they can split one actual job into two or three low hours 'jobs'.

I wouldn't advise anyone I cared about to go into teaching the way it is at the moment.

SligoBrewer

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I was close to mine (allowing for the break/lunch slots I was timetabled for, for the rest of the year) and then I broke my leg last week so I guess I won't hit my S&S quota. My class probably won't have a physics teacher either.

Nope.

evolving_doors

Well the Teaching Council has issued a press release;

Statement-from-the-Teaching-Council-on-teacher-supply

Postgrad10

Emailed to all teachers. It actually looks like they are doing some work. I wonder what their recommendations will be?

Postgrad10

You think the government could do something like they did with maths for Irish and Home Ec? As you see from the various other threads, it's very challenging to get courses suited to those who have a few hours and very expensive all round. Not helpful for the primary situation I know.

themusicman

How are schools coping....I don't think they are.

Coping doesn't describe a situation where anybody free gets put into a room just to tick the health and safety box.

And in urban areas I can't blame anyone.

I know of recent graduates who tried and could survive on part time hours.

If a full week in McDonalds is better that an 10 hour contract...and thats a contract not casual subbing then we have arrived at the problem that now exists.

And who is to blame ...well has the attraction of equal pay for equal work slogan covered up a fair days pay for a fair days work which small hours contracts is the antithesis of.

Because without a weeks wages for a weeks work new teachers can't cope.....and from listening to younger teachers thats the bigger issue.....you can't survive on the possibility of some subbing hours to go with a 11 hour contract .....real jobs are 22 hours...nothing less

and paid for the year too!

ethical

"The Teaching Council was established to maintain and enhance professional standards in teaching and learning. We currently have in excess of 98,000 teachers on our register. The Council has representation from all the teaching stakeholders including teachers and principals, school management bodies, teacher unions, parents' councils and Higher Education Institutions who offer programmes of Initial Teacher Education (teaching qualifications). We have a statutory role in relation to teacher supply which includes the provision of advice to the Minister for Education and Skills, as well as our wider legal mandate to promote and regulate the teaching profession."

The above is taken from Teaching Council statement,do they not realise the only reason they have so many members is because teachers are compelled to be members,it certainly is not for what they have done for the teaching profession since their inception.Infact I would consider TC as a money collection body (how many millions do they have in their account again?),what have they done for teachers? Nothing other than being very anti teacher.For F sake if you do have to copy the Nurses (in having a body to represent them),represent the teaching profession,be teacher friendly,(ever heard of WELLBEING????? ,its rammed down the throat of teachers each and every day now ,but teachers have WELLBEING needs also!!!

Icsics

evolving_doors wrote: »

Well the Teaching Council has issued a press release;

Statement-from-the-Teaching-Council-on-teacher-supply

What does it actually say...nothing!

spurious

In excess of 98,000 on Teaching Council Register.

CSO figures for numbers of Teachers** employed
**Full-time equivalents (2016/17)
Primary 36,000
Secondary 28,000

Anyone have access to how many people are actually in full-time, proper jobs?

2011abc

That’s 64000 teachers should be working full time in Ireland .So 24,000+ ie over a third of all ‘teachers’ are either on piecemeal contracts or emigrated .( probably most of the last decades graduates .So sad , more collateral damage of bankers’ bailout .)

r93kaey5p2izun

Postgrad10 wrote: »

You think the government could do something like they did with maths for Irish and Home Ec? As you see from the various other threads, it's very challenging to get courses suited to those who have a few hours and very expensive all round. Not helpful for the primary situation I know.

But has it worked in Maths? Maths is still one of the areas with the worst shortages. I know there are several full Maths jobs, in addition to subbing, unfilled in my ETB.

We just got word that another teacher has left our school over the midterm, necessitating another rejig to the timetable and to classes. We have been contacted to arrange splitting the 2nd Year, TY and 5th Year Foundation Maths groups across the other class levels. Or to suggest any better accommodations we can think of.

thefasteriwalk

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

But has it worked in Maths? Maths is still one of the areas with the worst shortages. I know there are several full Maths jobs, in addition to subbing, unfilled in my ETB.

We just got word that another teacher has left our school over the midterm, necessitating another rejig to the timetable and to classes. We have been contacted to arrange splitting the 2nd Year, TY and 5th Year Foundation Maths groups across the other class levels. Or to suggest any better accommodations we can think of.

Wow - another? Is it largely a geographical issue? I haven't seen anything like this in my school in Cork - or even heard of such crisis from other schools that I'm familiar with.

That sounds horrendous for the remaining maths teachers - surely there'll be others wanting to follow at this rate!

r93kaey5p2izun

Regarding the 98000 on the TC register - is there any further breakdown available? I wonder how many are registered under FE. Just about everyone I know with a degree - and some without - have registered under FE.

r93kaey5p2izun

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Wow - another? Is it largely a geographical issue? I haven't seen anything like this in my school in Cork - or even heard of such crisis from other schools that I'm familiar with.

That sounds horrendous for the remaining maths teachers - surely there'll be others wanting to follow at this rate!

Yes another as in we have lost huge numbers to retirement over the last two years, eleven colleagues have become DPs elsewhere, and many teachers moved home from Dublin. We've had a revolving door of subs this year and this is another one finding a better position outside Dublin - fair play to him! He wasn't a Maths teacher but was covering FL Maths among other things.

AJG

ethical wrote: »

"The Teaching Council was established to maintain and enhance professional standards in teaching and learning. We currently have in excess of 98,000 teachers on our register. The Council has representation from all the teaching stakeholders including teachers and principals, school management bodies, teacher unions, parents' councils and Higher Education Institutions who offer programmes of Initial Teacher Education (teaching qualifications). We have a statutory role in relation to teacher supply which includes the provision of advice to the Minister for Education and Skills, as well as our wider legal mandate to promote and regulate the teaching profession."

The above is taken from Teaching Council statement,do they not realise the only reason they have so many members is because teachers are compelled to be members,it certainly is not for what they have done for the teaching profession since their inception.Infact I would consider TC as a money collection body (how many millions do they have in their account again?),what have they done for teachers? Nothing other than being very anti teacher.For F sake if you do have to copy the Nurses (in having a body to represent them),represent the teaching profession,be teacher friendly,(ever heard of WELLBEING????? ,its rammed down the throat of teachers each and every day now ,but teachers have WELLBEING needs also!!!

Exactly... I haven't worked in a school in Ireland since 2010 but maintain my membership because it's pure optics for my private international clients. I'll most likely never work in the Irish education system again but keep up my membership to show I'm part of some professional body or other. I've also QT status in the U.K. but they don't extort money like the T.C. do for doing nothing.

mtoutlemonde

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

Regarding the 98000 on the TC register - is there any further breakdown available? I wonder how many are registered under FE. Just about everyone I know with a degree - and some without - have registered under FE.

I would be interested to see these results also. I have heard of many people who have registered under FE subbing in schools both primary and post-primary and the TC not batting an eye - we have your money and here's a number saying you're a teacher under FE without ever standing in a classroom or having to go through the nightmare that is the dip/PGDE or two years of PME. I thought the TC were meant to uphold standards - is it good enough for a graduate of any discipline to sub in schools with no knowledge of teaching?

markodaly

evolving_doors wrote: »

Well the Teaching Council has issued a press release;

Statement-from-the-Teaching-Council-on-teacher-supply

I must say, that is nothing but stupid piece of waffle. Most of it is about "Look how great we Irish teachers and the TC are!"

markodaly

ethical wrote: »

The above is taken from Teaching Council statement,do they not realise the only reason they have so many members is because teachers are compelled to be members,it certainly is not for what they have done for the teaching profession since their inception.Infact I would consider TC as a money collection body (how many millions do they have in their account again?),what have they done for teachers? Nothing other than being very anti teacher.For F sake if you do have to copy the Nurses (in having a body to represent them),represent the teaching profession,be teacher friendly,(ever heard of WELLBEING????? ,its rammed down the throat of teachers each and every day now ,but teachers have WELLBEING needs also!!!

Fair point. It is illegal in Ireland to be mandated to join a Union. In my mind it should be similar to mandate people pay money to join this useless shower and others like them.

TheDriver

Their statement also screamed of various interests on the council, each with its own validity. E. G. Pay parity line came from union reps on it.

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

Their statement also screamed of various interests on the council, each with its own validity. E. G. Pay parity line came from union reps on it.

I remember there was one chap who was running in the election for the TC on a union ticket. His Mandate went along the lines of: "If elected to the teaching council I will seek to abolish it":pac:

poster2525

I'd love to jump ship from where I am but I'm teaching Leaving Cert Maths. Do I leave kids with no teacher? I know I won't be replaced. And I have the usual interview chaos to look forward to in a few months time. Anyone want to offer me a permanent job in the south east (IT Business Accounting Economics Maths) where I can work hard and not be messed around? Anyone?

evolving_doors

poster2525 wrote: »

I'd love to jump ship from where I am but I'm teaching Leaving Cert Maths. Do I leave kids with no teacher? I know I won't be replaced. And I have the usual interview chaos to look forward to in a few months time. Anyone want to offer me a permanent job in the south east (IT Business Accounting Economics Maths) where I can work hard and not be messed around? Anyone?

Out of interest what are the places you keep an eye on for jobs?

I wonder if you took a direct approach and sussed schools out face to face, a principal or deputy could give you an inclination if a permanent job could arise out of an rpt!

poster2525

evolving_doors wrote: »

Out of interest what are the places you keep an eye on for jobs?

I wonder if you took a direct approach and sussed schools out face to face, a principal or deputy could give you an inclination if a permanent job could arise out of an rpt!

Thank you. Yes you might be right.

I'd look beyond the usual education job sites to company's, public sector or recruitment sites.

I've added IT qualifications outside of teaching and would keep an eye on recruitment in those areas.

PMBC

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I would be interested to see these results also. I have heard of many people who have registered under FE subbing in schools both primary and post-primary and the TC not batting an eye - we have your money and here's a number saying you're a teacher under FE without ever standing in a classroom or having to go through the nightmare that is the dip/PGDE or two years of PME. I thought the TC were meant to uphold standards - is it good enough for a graduate of any discipline to sub in schools with no knowledge of teaching?

Whats FE?

spurious

PMBC wrote: »

Whats FE?

Further Education, usually PLC courses.

ethical

Thank you sooo much Richard,now tell me where do I get the teachers to cover the "opt out of religion" students!

Postgrad10

Is it stating there should be another subject at that time?

RealJohn

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Is it stating there should be another subject at that time?

There shouldn’t be really. Like it or not, understanding religion is important in this day and age and I don’t believe that opting out should be allowed. Opting out of ‘faith formation’ classes, fine but opting out of religion classes entirely? Should probably be coming under CSPE or something but opting out entirely should be no more an option than it is for any other subject. Would it be entertained if people started demanding to be allowed to opt out of CSPE? Or history?

All off topic really though, aside from adding a little to the need for more bodies to cover groups of students.

spurious

It will be interesting to see if those parents in 'religious' run schools (those ones without a nun in sight this past ten years) will be clamouring to have their precious ones let out of religion classes too.
They will need people to cover any they do let out and it won't be sanctioned by the Dept., unlike the ETB/Community and Comprehensive schools.

Postgrad10

Dont the religious run school not do exam RE or is that gone completely ?

If students opt out won't it realistically mean that that RE teacher still takes them but for study or whatever because there won't end up being anyone in the RE class?