Teacher shortage - how are schools coping?

evolving_doors

ok interesting topic, but a bit off.
Back on
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C__MC

How will schools cope in the weeks ahead with oral examinations etc ?

Postgrad10

I suppose it depends on how big the school is and how much s and s they have left. I imagine in some schools it will be pretty tight. Principals and DP's supervising groups.

km79

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I suppose it depends on how big the school is and how much s and s they have left. I imagine in some schools it will be pretty tight. Principals and DP's supervising groups.

S and s does not come into it
The dept pay for cover
The issue is finding qualified subs .
A lot of schools now ask the examiner to find someone suitable before agreeing to release them .

km79

pandoraj09 wrote: »

But even if teachers find their own sub they are not allowed out in some cases. Having someone with the same subjects as you stand in your classroom is not the same as having you there apparently....with all the extra work you might be doing etc. Best to just say no from the Principal's point of view...

In some cases......that's a local issue
The overriding issue is lack of suitably qualified languages teachers full stop

wirelessdude01

pandoraj09 wrote:

One of the ways schools are coping is not having allowed teachers out to do the Orals. This was my favourite week of the year, away from the place. Not any more.

At primary level teachers in some schools aren't allowed to do CPD courses during the day that have sub cover if a sub cannot be found. Know of one person who was at a course recently and got a call to tell them to get to school pronto as the sub that had been arranged hadn't turned up.

Postgrad10

km79 wrote: »

S and s does not come into it
The dept pay for cover
The issue is finding qualified subs .
A lot of schools now ask the examiner to find someone suitable before agreeing to release them .

It does when there are no qualified subs available.

C__MC

Postgrad10 wrote: »

It does when there are no qualified subs available.

Is there any subbing agency out there for post primary teachers?

km79

Postgrad10 wrote: »

It does when there are no qualified subs available.

"How much s and s they have left"

Irrelevant . Dept paid cover

r93kaey5p2izun

Well S&S certainly comes into it in my school. If no sub is found S&S is used. That's what happened last year and has happened this year with LCA examiners. There's not much S&S left now so nobody is allowed to do orals or practicals after Easter.

We are also not allowed attend Junior Cycle subject CPD. We can get no subs for any subject since Christmas.

Postgrad10

km79 wrote: »

"How much s and s they have left"

Irrelevant . Dept paid cover

There's no point posting on here sometimes.

Postgrad10

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

Well S&S certainly comes into it in my school. If no sub is found S&S is used. That's what happened last year and has happened this year with LCA examiners. There's not much S&S left now so nobody is allowed to do orals or practicals after Easter.

We are also not allowed attend Junior Cycle subject CPD. We can get no subs for any subject since Christmas.

Similar situation in many schools in my area Emmett Stocky Puma. Bad when teachers can't even get to jct training.

mtoutlemonde

If you have full 22 hours timetable and needed to cover for teachers out on orals i.e. department paid cover - can you be paid for more than 22 hours - I know you couldn't in the past - have the Department changed it? Could that money come to the school like those who don't do S&S and given to those who are available and will cover?

r93kaey5p2izun

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

If you have full 22 hours timetable and needed to cover for teachers out on orals i.e. department paid cover - can you be paid for more than 22 hours - I know you couldn't in the past - have the Department changed it? Could that money come to the school like those who don't do S&S and given to those who are available and will cover?

The ETB have said no anyway. It was queried in my school as some were willing to cover for CPD days if paid fully.

Postgrad10

Some ETB schools will let subs go over the 22 hours and put them down for another week were they got less hours. They will complain about it though even though the school gave them the hours in the first place.

evolving_doors

Postgrad10 wrote: »

There's no point posting on here sometimes.

There seems to be a bit of confusion though.
Am I right in saying that when all the S&S cover is used up the dept had to provide sub hours?

Postgrad10

Yes, especially in smaller schools and especially where teachers had the option to opt out of s and s.

evolving_doors

Dan in the indo today is back on form after last week's diatribe.

I discussed the issue in last Thursday's Irish Independent and set out the lack of hard evidence to support such a costly pay hike - there has been a large increase in the number of teachers employed at the going rate over the past five years and there is no evidence of systemic recruitment or retention problems.

Puts the title 'powerful insider lobbyists' over picture of ASTI placards of equal pay for equal work. What lobbyists are he talking about?
Are Fianna Fail considered powerful lobbyists inside the government, that's gas.

Same in the UK ... a TES article suggested they'll need 47,000 extra teachers between now and 2024 . This is the DES response in the UK:

A Department for Education spokesperson said: "The fact is there are 15,500 more teachers in our classrooms than in 2010 and more teachers are joining the profession than leaving.

"Teaching continues to be an attractive profession with average wages of £37,400 outside of London, rising to £41,900 in the capital.

"We want to continue to attract the best and brightest into teaching and recently the education secretary announced a retention and recruitment
strategy to help do just that."

Sounds like Richard is just copying his homework off the Tories.

spurious

More teachers are joining than leaving because they are splitting up proper jobs.

happywithlife

Had to cover a class today but only realised when I was taking the roll it was for a PME student - is this a legit use of s&s or should the original base teacher been called upon? They were in the school as far as I know free at that time

mtoutlemonde

happywithlife wrote: »

Had to cover a class today but only realised when I was taking the roll it was for a PME student - is this a legit use of s&s or should the original base teacher been called upon? They were in the school as far as I know free at that time

In my opinion, I would have thought that if a PME student couldn't take class that the class teacher took the class - that's in an ideal world - I've seen co-ordinating teachers flee if they have a PME taking their classes.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

In my opinion, I would have thought that if a PME student couldn't take class that the class teacher took the class - that's in an ideal world - I've seen co-ordinating teachers flee if they have a PME taking their classes.

Are you sure that the class actually belonged to the coordinating teacher? . I know for example in my school PMEs are give some classes of their own, which I'm sure is wrong but done anyway.
If you are right and the coordinating teacher was free or not in some school business, that is definitely wrong .

Postgrad10

Depends if the PME is being paid for that class or not otherwise the coop teacher should have taken his/her own class. I see a lot of teachers with PME students in but don't think they have to be around while the student takes their class.

newbienqt

I'm recently qualified NQT, qualified last year my TC registered subjects are Mathematics, Physics, Applied Mathematics.

I find it very strange to read in the news that there are shortages and crisis in say Maths, Physics or Science yet I found it difficult to find work last year I applied for 40+ jobs and it looked like this year and last year are the same jobs rolling over so I assume that these jobs are given to the teacher who did the job last year... so the jobs advertised seem very competitive.. maybe some teachers are coming back to Ireland..

So I'm struggling to know where these shortages are in what areas? Or maybe the shortages are in just in short term.

rainbowtrout

newbienqt wrote: »

I'm recently qualified NQT, qualified last year my TC registered subjects are Mathematics, Physics, Applied Mathematics.

I find it very strange to read in the news that there are shortages and crisis in say Maths, Physics or Science yet I found it difficult to find work last year I applied for 40+ jobs and it looked like this year and last year are the same jobs rolling over so I assume that these jobs are given to the teacher who did the job last year... so the jobs advertised seem very competitive.. maybe some teachers are coming back to Ireland..

So I'm struggling to know where these shortages are in what areas? Or maybe the shortages are in just in short term.

I broke my leg this year and my physics class had no teacher for 7 weeks. None to be found.

r93kaey5p2izun

I know several Dublin ETB schools had unfilled Maths positions last year.

newbienqt

I'd say it would be tricky enough to find an adhoc Physics teacher for 7 weeks.

It needs a national register and coordination to match such a unique situation.

What area are you based in rainbowtrout as a matter of interest?

mirrorwall14

newbienqt wrote: »

I'm recently qualified NQT, qualified last year my TC registered subjects are Mathematics, Physics, Applied Mathematics.

I find it very strange to read in the news that there are shortages and crisis in say Maths, Physics or Science yet I found it difficult to find work last year I applied for 40+ jobs and it looked like this year and last year are the same jobs rolling over so I assume that these jobs are given to the teacher who did the job last year... so the jobs advertised seem very competitive.. maybe some teachers are coming back to Ireland..

So I'm struggling to know where these shortages are in what areas? Or maybe the shortages are in just in short term.

Where are you based? Definitely maths shortages on the east coast in my experience. Physics and Applied maths are small subjects at LC. Are you qualified for JC science?

newbienqt

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

I know several Dublin ETB schools had unfilled Maths positions last year.

Dublin would be not too far for me if west dublin or north dublin.. I wonder what the situation will be like this year??

newbienqt

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Where are you based? Definitely maths shortages on the east coast in my experience. Physics and Applied maths are small subjects at LC. Are you qualified for JC science?

Yes qualified in all four subjects Maths, Physics, Applied Maths and JC Science. I'm based in westmeath.