Teacher shortage - how are schools coping?

man_no_plan

Looking at education posts there seems to be vacancies across the board.

Postgrad10

They appear to be filling many of those though. Not many are being readvertised.

mtoutlemonde

Postgrad10 wrote: »

They appear to be filling many of those though. Not many are being readvertised.

Maybe they are but things could change in the next three/four weeks with people turning down positions because they get better offers somewhere else/sick leaves etc.

I presume you're not going through each post to see if it's a re-advertisement??? (Is there another way, I'm not aware of?)

Notorious

deiseindublin wrote: »

Talks were initially supposed to finish in May, the lack of action and updates are a joke, as for expecting the TUI to follow through on any promise they make, well, at this stage I'd consider that naive, 20 years on, I should know better.....

I’ve heard rumblings that we’re going to be striking in September. I’d say updates will come through at the first bout of union meetings this September.

Sir123

Notorious wrote: »

I’ve heard rumblings that we’re going to be striking in September. I’d say updates will come through at the first bout of union meetings this September.

That would be fantastic as there has been squat done since Ed Byrne took us out on the picket line. Government have refused to stick to their dates regarding pay equality 'meetings'. What has actually been said? Public Sector Pay Commission report still not out regarding retention of employees in Public Service. It doesn't surprise me.

Strike by all three Teacher Unions is the only way. I wonder if ASTI would have to reballot though as we were never in Lansdowne road as such. TUI and INTO both have strike mandates. Whether they use this now is a different story.

r93kaey5p2izun

I see a certain principal has posted on Facebook a few times now that they have no applications for jobs in several subjects for September. And lots of teachers on VfT advertising vacancies on behalf of their schools. Looks like things are set to get worse for schools this year. Glad to be out of it now tbh.

deiseindublin

Notorious wrote: »

I’ve heard rumblings that we’re going to be striking in September. I’d say updates will come through at the first bout of union meetings this September.

The new VP will be active I'm hoping. Can't see him sitting on his hands while Rome burns.

Icsics

ASTI won't be striking in Sept. 2 balllots in Sept- pay & SLARs

Noveight

A principal contacted me asking me if I knew any Irish teachers looking for a post. Seemed to be in quite a pickle.

SligoBrewer

Equal Pay is Not Enough

mtoutlemonde

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Equal Pay is Not Enough

Getting rid of those pointless CP hours as well!! It was great two years ago when we didn't have to do them and PTM during the day. Although I don't mind the PTMs in the evening, the pointless planning evenings annoys me.

Icsics

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Getting rid of those pointless CP hours as well!! It was great two years ago when we didn't have to do them and PTM during the day. Although I don't mind the PTMs in the evening, the pointless planning evenings annoys me.

And going back early to kill a few hours !

thegreatescape

Principals are going to have huge problems with recruiting home economics teachers next year. With the change in degree in St Angela's the next graduates won't be until 2020.

evolving_doors

thegreatescape wrote: »

Principals are going to have huge problems with recruiting home economics teachers next year. With the change in degree in St Angela's the next graduates won't be until 2020.

I was at a conference and heard 2 principals talking like they were kids discussing rare pokemon cards. One was bosting that they had a sub home-ec teacher lined up for September. The other one asks where did they find them. She turns around and says 'I'd rather not say' and laughs.

How come there's only 1 college that does the Home Ec. Would the teaching council not accept someone with food science degree and PME from any of the other colleges?

Corca Baiscinn

Noveight wrote: »

A principal contacted me asking me if I knew any Irish teachers looking for a post. Seemed to be in quite a pickle.

Some day soon compulsory Irish & the shortage of Irish teachers are going to be the irresistible force meeting the immovable object

Noveight

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Some day soon compulsory Irish & the shortage of Irish teachers are going to be the irresistible force meeting the mmovable object

Nail on the head there.

r93kaey5p2izun

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Some day soon compulsory Irish & the shortage of Irish teachers are going to be the irresistible force meeting the mmovable object

By the same logic Maths will go the same way. So many students hate it and qualified teachers are in desperately short supply. The government even put the free course in place to try fix the problem but availability of Maths teachers is now an even bigger issue.

Corca Baiscinn

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

By the same logic Maths will go the same way. So many students hate it and qualified teachers are in desperately short supply. The government even put the free course in place to try fix the problem but availability of Maths teachers is now an even bigger issue.

Didn't know that , presume people are still studying maths in college so,is it because there are so many other areas for maths graduates to go into?

Do you really think students hate it? I though people liked maths because you could solve it and get a right answer whereas with an English or Irish essay say, you don't know what's "right"

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

How come there's only 1 college that does the Home Ec. Would the teaching council not accept someone with food science degree and PME from any of the other colleges?

There used to be two Home Ec colleges, but Sion Hill closed down maybe 15-20 years ago?? Can't remember when exactly.

EDIT: 2003 was the announcement to close, so I presume the last of the students graduated in 2006 or 2007.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sion-hill-home-economics-college-to-close-1.377796

Home ec course also involves textiles/crafts/dress-making end of course. Food science is not the same as cookery. They also do the social studies end of things. Childcare is an option in JC, but most do cookery and textiles options. If there are standards to be kept in subjects like maths ('hey i'm an engineer, it's an outrage the TC won't just let me into a classroom with missing modules'), then standards should be maintained in home ec too.

rainbowtrout

Emmett Stocky Puma wrote: »

By the same logic Maths will go the same way. So many students hate it and qualified teachers are in desperately short supply. The government even put the free course in place to try fix the problem but availability of Maths teachers is now an even bigger issue.

Don't think there will be the same problems in maths. Lots of students dislike it but do see the need for maths in the real world. They don't see any need for Irish, and on a day to day basis they are correct. Science and business teachers usually fill gaps, at least at ordinary level. Much harder to fill gaps for Irish.

Corca Baiscinn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Home ec course also involves textiles/crafts/dress-making end of course. Food science is not the same as cookery. They also do the social studies end of things. Childcare is an option in JC, but most do cookery and textiles options. If there are standards to be kept in subjects like maths ('hey i'm an engineer, it's an outrage the TC won't just let me into a classroom with missing modules'), then standards should be maintained in home ec too.

Well yes, but maybe they could introduce catch up oidules like they did for the missing maths ones? LC Home Ec has a heck of a lot of science including food science and their 5 practicals tend to be focussed on the science end of it rather than just not burning the cup-cakes. Yes the textiles is an issue, students produce fabulous crafts for JC. But actually maybe St Angela's can just take on more Home Ec students. not sur eif shortage is due ot lack of capacity/funding or lack of demand from students. I know at other end its due to retirements, career breaks, maternity leave etc

Noveight

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Much harder to fill gaps for Irish.

Absolutely correct. Hence the nonsense plan to convert primary school teachers who have Irish as a requirement.

rainbowtrout

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

not sur eif shortage is due ot lack of capacity/funding or lack of demand from students. I know at other end its due to retirements, career breaks, maternity leave etc

I'd say it's a few things. It's probably the only subject in the country that is almost exclusively taught by women. I reckon you could count on one hand the number of male home ec teachers. Of course the same is true of construction/engineering, but men don't go on maternity leave. Also women are more likely to go on job share than men. Most other subjects have a number of routes into the qualification through either a dedicated teacher training degree, or degree + dip. Many other degrees can allow people in other careers train to be a teacher as they will be qualified in a subject. Not so with home ec. Angela's is the only way which is a stumbling block for many. And most other subjects with multiple degrees available and training routes and a mix of men and women training mean that the number of teachers on maternity leave/job share isn't as stark as it is in home ec.

I know men can go on job share, I have just yet to meet one. Anecdotally I've never heard of one. There are two women currently on job share in my school and two previous as well.

In my school at the moment we have three home economics teachers - all teaching some home ec and their second subject. Two were on maternity leave last year and took unpaid on top of that. Third one is on job share the last while and is due to go maternity leave soon. One of the other two will still be on maternity/parental leave in september. We have a home ec teacher who has been subbing with us consistently for the last number of years just jumping from one leave to another.

Big problem in Angela's this year is the lack of graduates as the course went from four to five years, so there is a year with no graduates to plug the gaps in an area crying out for teachers.

I don't think it's the lack of demand from students. Points for home ec remain high which indicates that demand is high for those courses. Given the practical nature of the subject, there are only so many student teachers you can fit in a lab/kitchen etc at a time. It's not like Arts where you just need a big lecture theatre.

evolving_doors

...
Points for home ec remain high which indicates that demand is high for those courses...

Tighten up on the H1S and H2's maybe!

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

Tighten up on the H1S and H2's maybe!

Those with the highest points would still get the places on the course?????

Number of high grades doesn't really change from one year to another due to the bell curve.....

maynooth_rules

Did FG not mention the idea of dropping the compulsory element to Irish when they were in opposition?

rainbowtrout

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Did FG not mention the idea of dropping the compulsory element to Irish when they were in opposition?

Yes, they've kicked that idea about quite a bit. Nothing about it since they got into government really. It may come to pass that is has to become optional if fewer people do Irish degrees and become teachers.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Those with the highest points would still get the places on the course?????

Apologies, I thought you meant students sitting the LC got higher grades/points from doing H.Ec. over the other subjects.

But my suggestion might still stand though, if it wasn't an attractive subject as it currently is (by tightening up on H1s,2s,3s) then it would eventually reduce classes and the pressure to get extra teachers. Our HE teachers are up the walls with just that subject. They'd be happy to do their other subject also.
Some of its competing subjects options have relatively low numbers in their classes for that reason.

Also the number of students allowed per home ec class is less than a lot of others (21 I think is the union directive!). Whereas you could easily have 30 in a languages class! That won't change though.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Number of high grades doesn't really change from one year to another due to the bell curve.....

Ohhhh yes it does :pac: look at H1s in biology this year compared to last year.

Not all subjects bother adhering to the bell curve either.

evolving_doors

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Did FG not mention the idea of dropping the compulsory element to Irish when they were in opposition?

A lot of promises are made whilst in opposition.

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

But my suggestion might still stand though, if it wasn't an attractive subject as it currently is (by tightening up on H1s,2s,3s) then it would eventually reduce classes and the pressure to get extra teachers. Our HE teachers are up the walls with just that subject. They'd be happy to do their other subject also.

I don't think we should be discouraging students from doing a subject that they like and want to do just because of the shortage of teachers. Government should be looking at ways of increasing the numbers of Home Ec teachers not discouraging students.

And if students deserve the H1 they should get it. They shouldn't be penalised because there is a teacher shortage.

evolving_doors wrote: »

Also the number of students allowed per home ec class is less than a lot of others (21 I think is the union directive!). Whereas you could easily have 30 in a languages class! That won't change though.

20 is the recommended max class size for home ec. Again, students shouldn't be discouraged from practical subjects just because non practical subjects can accommodate them. Because we can, doesn't mean we should. Not everyone is cut out to be a linguist.

evolving_doors wrote: »

Ohhhh yes it does :pac: look at H1s in biology this year compared to last year.

Not all subjects bother adhering to the bell curve either.

No they don't. But some subjects are prone to that. Students don't take physics or applied maths because they are 'hard'. Students that take them tend not to take them for the craic or because it'll be 'grand', they take them because they have good mathematical aptitude and have a liking for the subject, which makes it far more likely that they'll be good at it, which leads to a higher percentage of H1/H2 grades.

Not so much in more accessible/general subjects like geography or business where you get a greater spread of the general student population and are more likely to get results panning out similar to the bell curve.