Vacated property - landlord is withholding deposit - not sure if he's justified.

Squatman

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys.

The LL won't disclose what the current issues are with the house, so I feel like it seems a bit weird me disputing their claims when I don't fully know what their issue is.

I have emailed the LL to request details of what his issues are. I'm awaiting a reply.

Does anyone think it's weird that the LL wants us to meet his partner at the property to discuss a bunch of issues that he is keeping secret until we arrive? I don't really want to go as the prospect intimidates me.

Do we have a right to demand that the LL and not his partner deals with us?
Furthermore - do we have the right to demand that the partner is not present at all (he's definitely being used to intimidate I'm sure)?
Also - can the LL have new tenants while he is in dispute with us?

I will ring the RTB to clarify these points and ask if I can open a dispute when I don't really know what I'm disputing, but in the meantime if anyone can help I'd be forever grateful.

Thank you Thank you Thank you all

Edit: Not that it matters, but just for the record, the leak in bathroom was an old issue which had reappeared after we moved in, so not something caused by us. The window was broken at the time we moved in and was not something we did ourselves. LL and EA had promised it would be fixed within the week. It ended up taking about 2.5years.

all your dealings should be with the landlord. do not meet with anyone else

billybonkers

http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/default-document-library/rtb-security-deposits3C2B1F8EC9A6.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Browney7

Bananaleaf wrote: »

...We are lucky that we are not in immediate need of the deposit money. The LL doesn't deserve it though and seeing as he relisted the property (since been taken down again) for 150% of the amount we were paying for it....

Presuming you are in a rent pressure zone, this landlord sounds all kinds of stupid to be antagonising you over a few euro if he's flouting RPZ legislation....

Bananaleaf

the_syco wrote: »

Unless he has photos which are date stamped after you moved out, but before they moved in, how can he prove that you did any of the above, and not the new tenants?

Thank you. This will be a problem for us too though, as our photos are not date stamped either. I sent them to myself and had taken them on my phone, but looking at the phone today there is an option to edit the date and I guess he could claim that the photos we took were taken 4.5yrs ago and that I edited the dates and just resent them to myself. Flip.

Bananaleaf

Browney7 wrote: »

Presuming you are in a rent pressure zone, this landlord sounds all kinds of stupid to be antagonising you over a few euro if he's flouting RPZ legislation....

I checked the list of RPZs. The area we are in is not listed as one, but both towns either side of us are. so, I don't believe we are currently in an RPZ

The_Conductor

I would give the EA one final phone call.
I would state- 'This is a courtesy phone call. I have not been given any valid reasons for deposit retention. If I am not returned my deposit in full within 24 hours I *will* be lodging a case with the RTB for unfair deposit retention. I will not be calling you again regarding this matter- and this phone call is a courtesy- if the deposit is not returned forthwith- its a case with the RTB'.

Leave it like that- and when/if the deposit is not returned- go ahead and lodge the case- don't discuss it any longer- just lodge the case and get on with your life. It sounds to me like you have a clearcut case- and the landlord hasn't a leg to stand on.

spaceHopper

The RTB has said to try your own mediation first so do that.

Contact the EA, tell them the LL's partner is welcome to be present but either the LL appoints them their agent so that they can make desisions on the spot or the LL be there. The fist time they is a I have to check that, tell them to phone the LL, make sure you mobile is charged give them no excuse.

Tell them you want a full list of all issues in writing ether by email or on the the day but if it is only give on the day they are resposnable for any delay if you need time to conside the issue and respond to it. If it's not on the list they can't come beack later.

Tell the EA you will simply not entertain anything that is normal wear and tear so the EA better should the list before it's give to you.

The LL and EA are responsable for any damage due to tardy repairs.

Tell the EA you expect a cheque on the day or payment with in 24 hours.

Tell them this will be your final attempt to resolve this after that it's going to be with the RTB.

Set or agree to the time make sure it's not 6pm and the LL / EA or you has to be home to feed the kids..... Tell them to set aside two hours.

My guess is they spent the money but I don't see why the EA is involved it's costing them time and money.

Bananaleaf

Hi all

Ive another question if you could help me.

We are meeting the landlord, their partner and the estate agent on Tuesday.

Judging by the tone of the landlords emails (hard I know) it's going to be going to the RTB.

If it goes to tribunal stage are we required to be physically present for that? Time off work could be an issue for us, but we will work it out if we have to obviously.

Thanks

pilly

Bananaleaf wrote:

If it goes to tribunal stage are we required to be physically present for that? Time off work could be an issue for us, but we will work it out if we have to obviously.

Yep, you'll have to be there but you'll get notice.

April 73

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi all

Ive another question if you could help me.

We are meeting the landlord, their partner and the estate agent on Tuesday.

Judging by the tone of the landlords emails (hard I know) it's going to be going to the RTB.

If it goes to tribunal stage are we required to be physically present for that? Time off work could be an issue for us, but we will work it out if we have to obviously.

Thanks

It’s absolutely in your interest to turn up in person even if only one of you goes. Be prepared to use annual leave to do so - it’s your money you are fighting for.

The landlord is pushing his luck with-holding your deposit. So far what I’ve read is a bin that needed to be emptied, a freezer that should have been defrosted, an oven that the LL claims should have been cleaner. You may have a bit of an issue with the mould in the bedroom so you need to be prepared to counteract that with the fact that he did not carry out timely repairs. It might have been a good idea to clean the mound with bleach or a mound spray before moving out. The wear & tear to the painted table is nonsense.

I wouldn’t be meeting with the LL’s partner. They have nothing to do with your agreement with the LL. the EA sounds useless & should be telling the LL to cop on.

Stand your ground & don’t back down. Any LL should expect to put some money back into a property after a 5 year tenancy even with the cleanest & tidiest people in the world in the place. The very most I would concede is a professional oven clean & volunteering to clean the mound off the wall. After that it’s straight to the RTB. Make it clear to the LL that you have photos from when you moved in & when you moved out, that you have records of texts & emails looking to have the window repaired - and you do not have to show this to him - just make it clear you have the evidence for a RTB case.

Browney7

OP, I'd be getting my retaliation in first regarding the RTB if it was going that way. If you agree to meet him I wouldn't say a word in the meeting and let them tie themselves in knots. Settle for nothing less than full return in cash of deposit or else input the RTB dispute application there and then in front of them.

Bananaleaf

Browney7 wrote: »

Presuming you are in a rent pressure zone, this landlord sounds all kinds of stupid to be antagonising you over a few euro if he's flouting RPZ legislation....

It turns out you were bang on the money with this! Thank you - because of you I have an even stronger case

The_Conductor wrote: »

I would give the EA one final phone call.
I would state- 'This is a courtesy phone call. I have not been given any valid reasons for deposit retention. If I am not returned my deposit in full within 24 hours I *will* be lodging a case with the RTB for unfair deposit retention. I will not be calling you again regarding this matter- and this phone call is a courtesy- if the deposit is not returned forthwith- its a case with the RTB'.

Leave it like that- and when/if the deposit is not returned- go ahead and lodge the case- don't discuss it any longer- just lodge the case and get on with your life. It sounds to me like you have a clearcut case- and the landlord hasn't a leg to stand on.

This is essentially where we are at now. We are meeting the LL and EA tomorrow to see what issues they are on about and the above will be the outcome of the meeting. We have engaged with the RTB as of this morning and know exactly what our rights are and what our next step will be.

April 73 wrote: »

It’s absolutely in your interest to turn up in person even if only one of you goes. Be prepared to use annual leave to do so - it’s your money you are fighting for.

The landlord is pushing his luck with-holding your deposit. So far what I’ve read is a bin that needed to be emptied, a freezer that should have been defrosted, an oven that the LL claims should have been cleaner. You may have a bit of an issue with the mould in the bedroom so you need to be prepared to counteract that with the fact that he did not carry out timely repairs. It might have been a good idea to clean the mound with bleach or a mound spray before moving out. The wear & tear to the painted table is nonsense.

I wouldn’t be meeting with the LL’s partner. They have nothing to do with your agreement with the LL. the EA sounds useless & should be telling the LL to cop on.

Stand your ground & don’t back down. Any LL should expect to put some money back into a property after a 5 year tenancy even with the cleanest & tidiest people in the world in the place. The very most I would concede is a professional oven clean & volunteering to clean the mound off the wall. After that it’s straight to the RTB. Make it clear to the LL that you have photos from when you moved in & when you moved out, that you have records of texts & emails looking to have the window repaired - and you do not have to show this to him - just make it clear you have the evidence for a RTB case.

Thanks for your message. I appreciate that it is in our interest to turn up but we can't avail of annual leave. In our job our holidays are taken at a set time and they have to be taken then. This will be a days leave. Which is fine, but I was asking because I wanted to know if we could counter claim for loss of earnings if it goes that far. I was talking with RTB this morning and we can.

Also - just to clarify re: bathroom. The light is a skylight that is in the roof. It wasn't possible for us to clean the mould off it as it's about 15ft or so above us. We couldn't reach it even if we stood a ladder up in the bath (which we weren't going to be doing anyway)

Browney7 wrote: »

OP, I'd be getting my retaliation in first regarding the RTB if it was going that way. If you agree to meet him I wouldn't say a word in the meeting and let them tie themselves in knots. Settle for nothing less than full return in cash of deposit or else input the RTB dispute application there and then in front of them.

Thank you for this.


Essentially - RTB say that all the issues that the LL has should have been outlined with that first meeting with the EA and that we can claim that we are not entertaining anything that has arisen after that first meeting. That issues were outlined to us, we agreed to resolve them and that we were told (albeit verbally and by the EA, not the LL) that full deposit would be restored to us.

The majority of the issues will fall under the category of wear and tear. He can engage the services of a cleaner for dusting (which is one of his new claims - we didn't dust upstairs) which I think is crazy as I did dust. I either missed some spots or we are talking about the build up of dust from the past month after we had moved out

The bathroom window not being fixed for 2.5years is a breach of the minimum standards for property and he is in breach of landlords obligations by not having it fixed. The same goes for the kitchen where there is no vent (but there is a window and extractor fan) - The statute of limitations on this is 6yrs so the RTB say we still have time to counter claim on this too.

Feeling a lot better in a way going into tomorrow's meeting. But, it's sad. It shouldn't be coming to this.

April 73

Best of luck. As Michele Obama said “when they go low, we go high”. The LL is behaving badly and after a 5 year tenancy he should have more respect for the relationship.

(As for dusting - he needs to catch a grip!)

spaceHopper

So what happened, did your resolve it?

Squatman

well?

Bananaleaf

The meeting was only this evening so we are not long back.

I don't want to breathe a sigh of relief until I actually see the money in our account, but it appears that the matter has been settled.

The meeting was not pleasant and we are not getting the full deposit amount back. We are, however, happy with how we conducted ourselves and we feel that the amount we negotiated with the landlord is worth giving him if it means being done with him. Hopefully he keeps up his end of the deal and we see the amount soon.