Pro lifers door to door

Hector Savage

So when is this referendum happening ?

CerebralCortex

Sabrina Gray Sleepwalker wrote: »

Half the congregation? Really?

And why shouldn't a Catholic Institute speak at a Catholic ceremony about a matter on which the Catholic Church has strong views? The people in the wrong here were the people who rudely got up and walked out.
The fact that they didn't even wait to hear anything she had to say would lead me to believe they went to Mass knowing she would be there and for the sole purpose of getting up and making a dramatic exit when she appeared. Appalling and childish behaviour.

Nothing more contemptible than a la carte Catholicism.

Ash.J.Williams

I'm prochoice but I'd love to see proof that half a congregation left the church

January

Hector Savage wrote: »

So when is this referendum happening ?

Hopefully we will have a date announced this evening.

splinter65

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A 'private club' which somehow controls over 90% of taxpayer funded primary schools. Odd that.

Irrelevant to this thread. It’s a private club.
If the media come to them asking for comment they’re going to respond.
What’s odd is folk thinking that that’s somehow unfair.

Hotblack Desiato

splinter65 wrote: »

Irrelevant to this thread. It’s a private club.
If the media come to them asking for comment they’re going to respond.
What’s odd is folk thinking that that’s somehow unfair.

Private clubs shouldn't be trying to enforce club rules on people who aren't members.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Private clubs shouldn't be trying to enforce club rules on people who aren't members.

Many clubs advertise, give special offers, trial membership etc. to encourage new members.

Ursus Horribilis

For all we know, there could be non catholics and non religious people opposed to the repeal of the 8th.

Hotblack Desiato

Vaughn Zealous Insignia wrote: »

Many clubs advertise, give special offers, trial membership etc. to encourage new members.

I dunno what that non-sequitur has got to do with my post. Or, indeed, anything else.

Hotblack Desiato

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

For all we know, there could be non catholics and non religious people opposed to the repeal of the 8th.

So I keep hearing, online.
In real life the correlation in Ireland between anti-choice and conservative catholicism is 100%, IME.

splinter65

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Private clubs shouldn't be trying to enforce club rules on people who aren't members.

RCC don’t have any authority or involvement in desicion making in this country.
If the media ask them to participate in discussions or give opinions there’s no reason why they would decline the invitation, is there?

splinter65

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'm prochoice but I'd love to see proof that half a congregation left the church

Forget it. It didn’t happen.

Hotblack Desiato

splinter65 wrote: »

RCC don’t have any authority or involvement in desicion making in this country.
If the media ask them to participate in discussions or give opinions there’s no reason why they would decline the invitation, is there?

No. They are perfectly entitled to tell us what catholic teaching is. What they should not be doing is telling us what the law should be.

They no longer have real power but they still have a great deal of influence and control of schools is important to maintain this influence.

splinter65

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

For all we know, there could be non catholics and non religious people opposed to the repeal of the 8th.

There are many groups including LGBT and Atheist and Agnostic groups that are pro life but this seems to intensely annoy the hardcore Repeal campaigners.

splinter65

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So I keep hearing, online.
In real life the correlation in Ireland between anti-choice and conservative catholicism is 100%, IME.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lgbtprolifeirl

There you go.

david75

If this referendum doesn’t pass what has the PLC actually achieved?

Women will still go for abortions in England in their thousands.

Is that a victory? What even is it exactly?

RDM_83 again

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So I keep hearing, online.
In real life the correlation in Ireland between anti-choice and conservative catholicism is 100%, IME.

We know your experience isn't true though.

Polls show that repeal is not as popular as passing gay marriage, as a conservative Catholic would certainly indicate no when both these topics are polled it follows that there is people who are against repeal but are not conservative Catholics.

Further to this since you insist on using the term "anti-choice" we also know there is a significant body of opinion that would repeal or amend solely for FFA, incest and so on. That's not a pro-choice position as access is determined by factors outside the patients determination.

Perhaps the simple answer to why you don't think such people exist is because you may be coming off as aggressive in terms of being pro-choice so people withhold their opinions because it's too much hastle.

Its the same if someone wanders around wearing Celtic jersey with IRA tattooed on their forearms they might think the only Rangers supporters are guys that want to physically fight them as that's their lived experience however it's simply that anybody that's not equivalently invested just doesn't think it's worthwhile.

ohnonotgmail

RDM_83 again wrote: »

We no your experience isn't true though.

Polls show that repeal is not as popular as passing gay marriage, as a conservative Catholic would certainly indicate no when both these topics are polled it follows that there is people who are against repeal but are not conservative Catholics.

Further to this since you insist on using the term "anti-choice" we also know there is a significant body of opinion that would repeal or amend solely for FFA, incest and so on. That's not a pro-choice position as access is determined by factors outside the patients determination.

Perhaps the simple answer to why you don't think such people exist is because you may be coming off as aggressive in terms of being pro-choice so people withhold their opinions because it's too much hastle.

Its the same if someone wanders around wearing Celtic jersey with IRA tattooed on their forearms they might think the only Rangers supporters are guys that want to physically fight them as that's their lived experience however it's simply that anybody that's not equivalently invested just doesn't think it's worthwhile.

the latest irish times poll had the numbers very similar to the marriage referendum

splinter65

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

No. They are perfectly entitled to tell us what catholic teaching is. What they should not be doing is telling us what the law should be.

They no longer have real power but they still have a great deal of influence and control of schools is important to maintain this influence.

They are entitled to an opinion on the law or anything else at all, and entitled to express that opinion, especially when asked, the same as you or I or anyone else.
Anyone is entitled to ignore their opinion or argue with them, or agree with them.
It’s no different to Sky Sports asking Arsene Wenger what he thought of the referees performance in the World Cup Final.
It’s a view, a standpoint , a position.
And I’m so grateful to live in a country where one group can't silence another group as much as they would dearly love to.
And I’m sure you are too.

NollagShona

splinter65 wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/lgbtprolifeirl

There you go.

That’s not a real group

splinter65

NollagShona wrote: »

That’s not a real group

Ok Shona.

https://mobile.twitter.com/loveboth8

This group don’t exist either?

eviltwin

splinter65 wrote: »

Ok Shona.

https://mobile.twitter.com/loveboth8

This group don’t exist either?

Love Both is rooted in the religious right, it's an offshoot of Youth Defence, the softer version of it if you will.

splinter65

eviltwin wrote: »

Love Both is rooted in the religious right, it's an offshoot of Youth Defence, the softer version of it if you will.

https://m.facebook.com/secularprolife/

And this one ?

Kurtosis

splinter65 wrote: »

RCC don’t have any authority or involvement in desicion making in this country.
If the media ask them to participate in discussions or give opinions there’s no reason why they would decline the invitation, is there?

Of course they're entitled to give their opinions. However they're not entitled to their own facts, and I take issue with scaremongering based on lies.

From this article on Bishop Kevin Doran's pastoral message:

Dr Doran said the proposals “are significantly more liberal than the current law in Britain, where slightly more than one in five unborn children are aborted every year”.

Which, as the following paragraph points out, is nonsense:

Abortions in England, Wales and Scotland are carried out before 24 weeks of pregnancy but can be carried out after that in certain circumstances, such as if the woman’s life is at risk or the foetus would be born with a severe disability.

The dishonesty isn't very christian.

splinter65

eviltwin wrote: »

Love Both is rooted in the religious right, it's an offshoot of Youth Defence, the softer version of it if you will.

Can you show me where LoveBoth argues against abortion on religious grounds then?

eviltwin

splinter65 wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/secularprolife/

And this one ?

That's American

RDM_83 again

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the latest irish times poll had the numbers very similar to the marriage referendum

I saw that poll yesterday actually but I am sort of sceptical about it, a year ago most common opinion was too amend for FFA, incest etc, only 16% net shift of views changed to favour increased liberalisation (+19/-3) yet the poll seems dramatically different to those carried out last year.

I am not discounting it and the shift could well be real but I'd like to see what a poll in say two months time says.

splinter65

eviltwin wrote: »

That's American

So what?

david75

Splinter it’s long been obvious you’re either involved with youth defence or
At least a big fan.

The groups you listed are fake accounts created by YD.

Same tactic was used in marriage equality and it failed then Too.

When will you guys learn this sort of carry on is transparent and people aren’t thick?

splinter65

Kurtosis wrote: »

Of course they're entitled to give their opinions. However they're not entitled to their own facts, and I take issue with scaremongering based on lies.

From this article on Bishop Kevin Doran's pastoral message:


Which, as the following paragraph points out, is nonsense:


The dishonesty isn't very christian.

You suggest the Bishop lies. Tell us more.

circadian

splinter65 wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/lgbtprolifeirl

There you go.

The first thing I see is a retweet mentioning George Soros.

Any time I see something mentioning that name it is usually taken with a shovel of salt as he seems to be some sort of boogeyman for the real, fake news. (I still can't believe we've reached the point of "real, fake news")

eviltwin

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you show me where LoveBoth argues against abortion on religious grounds then?

They don't, that's the entire point. But just look at the profiles of the people who like them, very much religious and lots of religion references on their facebook page.

splinter65

david75 wrote: »

Splinter it’s long been obvious you’re either involved with youth defence or
At least a big fan.

The groups you listed are fake accounts created by YD.

Same tactic was used in marriage equality and it failed then Too.

When will you guys learn this sort of carry on is transparent and people aren’t thick?

So you honestly don’t believe that there are people of no religion and gay people who believe that abortion is wrong?
And as you have been before this last weekend you are wrong about me.
You didn’t even know I was a woman on Saturday and now you think I’m in YD.
if your in a hole stop digging.

david75

splinter65 wrote: »

So you honestly don’t believe that there are people of no religion and gay people who believe that abortion is wrong?
And as you have been before this last weekend you are wrong about me.
You didn’t even know I was a woman on Saturday and now you think I’m in YD.
if your in a hole stop digging.

I’d ask you to stop digging around in women’s personal lives and wombs but you seem to be stuck right in there.

The accounts you posted are clearly all fake.

ohnonotgmail

splinter65 wrote: »

So you honestly don’t believe that there are people of no religion and gay people who believe that abortion is wrong?
And as you have been before this last weekend you are wrong about me.
You didn’t even know I was a woman on Saturday and now you think I’m in YD.
if your in a hole stop digging.

I'm sure there are. they're not being the groups you linked to though.

eviltwin

splinter65 wrote: »

So you honestly don’t believe that there are people of no religion and gay people who believe that abortion is wrong?
And as you have been before this last weekend you are wrong about me.
You didn’t even know I was a woman on Saturday and now you think I’m in YD.
if your in a hole stop digging.

You were <snip> before you got banned for trolling, you're back at it again

Kurtosis

splinter65 wrote: »

You suggest the Bishop lies. Tell us more.

Can you really not tell from what I quoted? The proposals here are for termination up to 12 weeks for any reason, or later in the case of fatal foetal abnormality or serious threat to the woman's health. This is clearly not more liberal than Britain.

freshpopcorn

MOD NOTEGenerally discussion on abortion belongs in the other thread!

circadian

That escalated quickly.

RDM_83 again

Kurtosis wrote: »

Of course they're entitled to give their opinions. However they're not entitled to their own facts, and I take issue with scaremongering based on lies.

From this article on Bishop Kevin Doran's pastoral message:


Which, as the following paragraph points out, is nonsense:


The dishonesty isn't very christian.

Hmmmm but as the Churches view is that time limits etc don't matter at all and it's all or nothing after conception to them it may not matter that it's 12 weeks or 24.

Keeping that in mind and looking at it from a strictly legal stand point he's probably right. The 1967 English act requires Dr's to sign off on it being a genuine need, the system isn't meant to be applied in the way it is (the opinion of the politician who drafted the act itself -Lord Steel) in terms of it being a literal rubber stamping procedure (see scandal about Dr's filling out forms with information to allow procedure despite being given information by the undercover journalists posing as patients that should have resulted in rejection).

I get how this seems like blatant lies but keeping in mind the churches philosophical opinion on it, and what English law actually says (rather than how it's applied) it does change things.

The UK will likely be brought up a lot by pro-lifers as an argument to why legislation isn't a adequate safe-pass.

Importantly it should be pointed out that Germany does allow abortion with a requirement for a council session and 3 day waiting period despite having Constitutional protections for foetuses/unborn.

Hermy

AnneFrank wrote: »

No matter what the viewpoint, people should campaign without the hatred and bile...

If only the pro-life brigade would do just that.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

I'm voting to repeal-it's the right thing to do.
I think it will be a comfortable victory (65/35) for the pro choice side.I just hope that people don't take to the streets and celebrate ala Italia'90.If you want to party,keep it indoors.Mass communal outpourings of joy would be hard to bear for a significant chunk of the population.

ohnonotgmail

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Hmmmm but as the Churches view is that time limits etc don't matter at all and it's all or nothing after conception to them it may not matter that it's 12 weeks or 24.

Keeping that in mind and looking at it from a strictly legal stand point he's probably right. The 1967 English act requires Dr's to sign off on it being a genuine need, the system isn't meant to be applied in the way it is (the opinion of the politician who drafted the act itself -Lord Steel) in terms of it being a literal rubber stamping procedure (see scandal about Dr's filling out forms with to allow procedure despite being given by the undercover journalists posing as patients that should have resulted in rejection).

I get how this seems like blatant lies but keeping in mind the churches philosophical opinion on it, and what English law actually says (rather than how it's applied) it does change things.

The UK will likely be brought up a lot by pro-lifers as an argument to why legislation isn't a adequate safe-pass.

Importantly it should be pointed out that Germany does allow abortion with a requirement for a council session and 3 day waiting period despite having Constitutional protections for foetuses/unborn.

No, it was a blatant lie. True to form for Bishop Doran.

RDM_83 again

freshpopcorn wrote: »

MOD NOTEGenerally discussion on abortion belongs in the other thread!

Why keep letting abortion threads be opened then? Like it seems to be a pattern that certain threads relating to the 8th/abortion are allowed to be opened up but others get closed

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

RDM_83 again

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No, it was a blatant lie. True to form for Bishop Doran.

Go read the British act and see the levels of restrictions for procedures before 12 weeks, just saying it's fake news gets thanks here but it's not really an argument

Kurtosis

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No, it was a blatant lie.

Agreed. I would hope the prolife campaigners don't adopt the same tactics. I've no problem with them calling door to door but I would be concerned that people could be deceived and unduly influenced if they are providing untruthful information.

freshpopcorn

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Why keep letting abortion threads be opened then? Like it seems to be a pattern that certain threads relating to the 8th/abortion are allowed to be opened up but others get closed

This thread is about people's dealing with Pro-life campaigners going from door to door and generally discussion belongs in the other thread.

Hotblack Desiato

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Perhaps the simple answer to why you don't think such people exist is because you may be coming off as aggressive in terms of being pro-choice so people withhold their opinions because it's too much hastle.

Perhaps you shouldn't make stuff up and call it an argument.

splinter65

eviltwin wrote: »

You were <edit> before you got banned for trolling, you're back at it again

Ah evil twin, your not even close.
I’ve always had good time for you.