Heating Oil Scam

Paddytheman

Hey all,

I placed my first order for heating oil with a local company on Monday for 500l, I stated that I would only be home until 12 to take the delivery and he stated that if I wasnt there they would simply fill the tank themselves? Is this the norm? If he hadn't arrived before 12 I was going to postpone them until I was home.

Anyway delivery arrives at 11:50 and I let him in, he goes about his job and I went out front to the truck. The "meter" was set at 400l, when he finished this fill he returns to me and re-sets the "meter" for another 100l.

I just cant understand why it would be done in 2 fills unless he was planning to leave me short. Trying to find a reason to trust the guy, is there any reason he could need to do it in 2 fills?

Cheers.

my3cents

He may have thought you only had room for 400l or that he knew you could take 400l and wanted to see if there would still be room for another 100l?

eurokev

All very normal, nothing to worry about

Wearb

His next delivery may have been for a different product and he needed to have correct product in the line for next delivery. Common practice. Did you get a printed delivery docket?

martinr5232

What Wearb said he was likely switching fuels either kerosene to diesel or visa versa so the last 100 litres is the quantity in the hose so when he goes to his next drop his hose has the correct fuel in it.

Paddytheman

Cheers all, appreciate the advice.

As a last question is it common to accept delivery to be made when you're not home? Handwritten invoice.

eurokev

Yeah very common to get a delivery when you're not at home.

You should be getting a print out from the meter though showing how much oil was delivered

Wearb

eurokev wrote: »

Yeah very common to get a delivery when you're not at home.

****You should be getting a print out from the meter though showing how much oil was delivered****

** Certainly. Ask if you can have a printout when next ordering, if not available then choose another supplier.

jimf

hand written dkts are a thing of the past

most now are pre metered deliveries set up by the sales office

dzer2

Deliver oil myself 30 litres in pump and hose when changing product. It can deffer but 100 ltrs seems a lot. Never accept a hand written docket by law a printed one has to be done. As the meter has being calibrated.

Wearb

dzer2 wrote: »

Deliver oil myself 30 litres in pump and hose when changing product. It can deffer but 100 ltrs seems a lot. Never accept a hand written docket by law a printed one has to be done. As the meter has being calibrated.

What length and diameter hose do you have? What is the capacity of your lorry?

LiamaDelta

Wearb wrote: »

What length and diameter hose do you have? What is the capacity of your lorry?

Getting very personal very quickly :D

jca

Sounds dodgy to me especially if you aren't getting a proper docket from the meter. I'd use a different supplier in future.

jimf

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Getting very personal very quickly :D

ah shur jaysus hes from wexford :P

they want to know everything down there in the sunny south east

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

ah shur jaysus hes from wexford :P

they want to know everything down there in the sunny south east

As opposed to living happily in ignorance in the SW :P:P :pac::pac::pac::pac:

backspin.

Paddytheman wrote: »

Cheers all, appreciate the advice.

As a last question is it common to accept delivery to be made when you're not home? Handwritten invoice.

I'm never home for my deliveries. I pay online and they deliver while I'm at work.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

As opposed to living happily in ignorance in the SW :P:P :pac::pac::pac::pac:

id still be ignorance personified wherever lived :p

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

id still be ignorance personified wherever lived :p

I wouldn’t buy you for one Jim. Might be a long time getting my money back

DGOBS

Watch out or us yellow bellies will start another rising! :P

jimf

at boolavogue as the sun was setting

jca

DGOBS wrote: »

Watch out or us yellow bellies will start another rising! :P

You'd better wait until the bypass is finished all the landmark villages are effectively isolated.

DGOBS

Or as I was told by a lady many years ago in Dublin, when I said i was from Wexford, "only 2 things come from Wexford, travellers and strawberries, and you don't look like a strawberry!' :eek:

Glashabui

I got a delivery of home heating oil today. 700L into my tank (capacity 1300L). I had about 200L in the tank before delivery. It’s a green cylinder type tank. It’s difficult to know exactly where the 1/2 way point in the tank is. But I seem to have received less oil than I was expecting

the printed docket said I received 700L. I found it odd that the driver went up onto the top of the truck with the hose pipe before he started my delivery. Why would he do this and is it normal? I don’t want to ring the company, accusing them of wrong doing

thanks

Wearb

If he arrived in your house with wrong type oil in hose, then he might have to climb onto lorry.

If your tank isn't over half full, call the office and ask for the manager to call around and look into your tank to see if If he thinks you got 700l.

Glashabui

thank you. Good idea.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745099#Comment_117745099

How did this turn out?

monseiur

Certain heating oil delivery drivers used to have a scam going, when delivering to unoccupied housed or to elderly house bound folk - the docket was put in the meter, the first say 100 litres was pumped back into the truck's tank and the balance into the customers tank. At the end of the week the driver would fill his own tank with the oil 'siphoned' off his customers or sell it to his mates at a discount.

Isambard

build a good relationship with a local dealer and they will look after you, they want your return orders.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762921#Comment_117762921

If this is true, can you explain how they would tally sales with the daily totals as recorded on the meter?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/105938846#Comment_105938846

It's very dependent on your relationship with the company, I've built up an excellent relationship with my supplier and indeed driver over 20 years and as I live rural not always possible to be home. I've a combination lock type system on my tank and key for gate with neighbours, so for me, very normal but again, it's a long term relationship and of course I always check levels.

K.Flyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762962#Comment_117762962

Puts delivery docket into the machine at the start of each delivery and starts the pump and meter. Pumps first 50 litres back into the tanker with meter running and pumps balance into the house tank.

If he does this with each delivery, say 5 deliveries per run, all his meters read all fuel delivered, but he now has a surplus of 5 x 50 litres in his tanker. Which he can then drain or siphon from the tanker into his own or another tank. Clever enough. I'd bet it goes on, and may not be picked up on by the casual observer.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117744330#Comment_117744330

Possibly it was a lot less than 200l unless you have a gauge.

If it was a tank like this https://www.tanks.ie/atlas-1300-bunded-oil-tank/p1737 , then half full would be a 1/3rd from the bottom due to the rounded shape of the top. If you can find the level and it is entirely in the squarish zone of the tank, then with a bit calculation, you'd be able to work out approx how many litres.

so say 70cm high to oil line, 100cm width of tank, 130cm length of tank = 910000 = .91 cbm = 910 litres

And its very difficult for a driver to falsify a delivery on a printed docket.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762921#Comment_117762921

utter rubbish. I suspect someone said this in a pub after a few pints and suddenly it becomes legend. or you made it up today. and of course using the "elderly folk" phrase to make it sound plausible when it is complete and utter bullsh1t

Imagine trying hide from the view of neighbours that you are attaching a hose to your own tank. then hoping the lower delivery was not missed and then doing it several times in a day and then getting to your mates house and remembering how much to dispense and then try to explain how the dispensing gauge is higher than what was put into the tank that morning.

you didn't think your bullsh1t story out well enough

TheW1zard

its not the 1980's anymore, have you heard of Gas?

joeysoap

My supplier ( small, independent, local) always looks into the tank first before he puts the hose in - I don’t know why, I’m always near empty) anyway I just ask for a fill and the result is always odd amounts ie 878, 928 etc.but from the internet he charges the 1000 price. Usually rounded. But I’ve never yet filled a full 1000 into tank. Middle of the road for pricing but I wouldn’t change for a cheaper price.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771090#Comment_117771090

And if a spot check is done before it's siphoned off, bye bye driver.

Not saying its impossible, but very difficult to get away with, even more so now with digital meters connected to depot and GPS tracking.

Perhaps a little easier if owner driver and no checks, but they all have weights and measures to deal with also.

Some customers can very vigilant and such practices don't go unnoticed for long. I've seen some well marked broom handles in some boiler houses.

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771090#Comment_117771090

once its removed without been pumped its not detectable

John.G

How is it pumped back into the tanker?, surely he doesn't have to stick the hose into the top of the tank.

I'm lucky in that my present Carbery compact R tank is exactly 1mm/Litre of oil, I always fill it up (say 730/800 litres) so I take the ullage before and after a fill, its normally within 5/10 litres of the meter, I have used the same delivery company for >25 years and certainly don't take the measurements to check them out as I trust them but its interesting at the same time.

John.G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771304#Comment_117771304

I think they charge the 1000 lire price/litre after 700/750 litres or so.

youtheman

It ain't rocket surgery. Just make up a calibrated dip stick (some one with basic math will be able to calculate it for a rectangular or cylindrical tank).

crossmolinalad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762921#Comment_117762921

So you will say that lets say 100l goes twice trough the meter???He cant switch off the meter and still filling up And when he leave the depot with a full truck the depot takes the meter reading and when he came back they fill up the truck and what's got out has to come in again He leave depot with 10.000liter and delivering 9.000 its on the meter and truck will be filled up again with 9.000 liter

They cant swift kero around as you say Friend of mine works for EMO oil and i have be with him for some weeks a while ago

K.Flyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781127#Comment_117781127

No, the hundred litres doesn't go through the meter twice.

Zeros the delivery meter, puts in the docket, opens top of tanker, pumps (let's say 100 litre) back into tanker, closes lid, pump still running, pours remaining 900 litres into house tank, stops pump prints docket.

Docket will say 1,000 litres delivered, but as 100 went back into the tanker only 900 delivered.

Repeat 2, 3 or 4 times.

Before going back to the yard he will then drain the 100 litres by however many times, say 300 litres out of the tanker, but not through the meter again, either through a valve or siphon / pump from the top.

Now unless there are seals put on the hatches and valves which are checked before leaving and after returning to the yard I can see how this is a very easy trick to pull off with the driver either getting himself some free heating oil or some cash selling it.

rightjob!

This “scam” you talk about is utter rubbish, would never happen and does not happen.

Its stories like this that can ruin someone’s business.

chooseusername

So he fills the 3 gallon drum from the 5 gallon drum.

then he fills the 2 gallon drum from the 5 gallo.............

Oh, wait a sec