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County council are happy with their tenants overholding

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    #32
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭mad m


    hawkelady wrote: »
    No cant sell it with the tenants in it.. It has to be vacant.

    Are you sure. DCC recently bought a house with a sitting tenant. The tenant is now a council tenant. House was bought close to City Centre


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    #33
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    mad m wrote: »
    Are you sure. DCC recently bought a house with a sitting tenant. The tenant is now a council tenant. House was bought close to City Centre

    A house can be bought with a sitting tenant but no bank will finance it. The price has to be reduced to entice a cash buyer.


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    #34
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    mad m wrote: »
    hawkelady wrote: »
    No cant sell it with the tenants in it.. It has to be vacant.

    Are you sure. DCC recently bought a house with a sitting tenant. The tenant is now a council tenant. House was bought close to City Centre

    That's what the council told me when I asked if they are interested in buying so to save the hassle of the tenants upping sticks as it were. They said they might be interested but the place will have to be vacant before they consider it. It isn't DCC btw , but it's in Dublin.


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    #35
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    TheChizler wrote: »
    The Student wrote: »
    If it was me I would still sue the council for any legal costs you incur.
    The council have no responsibility over the tenant, their only responsibility beyond placing a tenant in the property is paying rent and acting as guarantor for the rent.

    Why is the council then telling me that if they haven't found a suitable house for the tenant ,they will be overholding until they have somewhere for them.


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    #36
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Why is the council then telling me that if they haven't found a suitable house for the tenant ,they will be overholding until they have somewhere for them.
    Giving you a heads up? They're possibly giving illegal advice to the tenant and maybe could be sued on that basis, but you can't hold them responsible for the actions of the tenant. Maybe claiming on the basis of illegal advice was what The Student was on about now that I think about it.


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    #37
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,752 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    hawkelady wrote: »
    I'm selling up. I'd imagine that I'd still get paid cause it's the council. But I want to sell. I feel utterly betrayed by the council. What if I wanted to move back in the myself ?? Jesus , I can't wait to get out of being a landlord !!

    heh... yet another reason why I'd rather leave my place vacant than rent it out if I ever take up work stints abroad.


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    #38
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    hawkelady wrote: »
    I issued a termination notice to my tenants a number of weeks ago. They are on RAS , so are county council tenants. I received an email today from the council stating that if they cannot find them suitable accommodation in the same area they will be overholding !! They told me to check my notice of termination that it's in order as I'll need it when it goes to the RTB .. I was shocked at the manner of the county council put this email together .... it proves that landlords aren't protected whatsoever by them.
    They give you 20% below market rent but tell you you are secure with them. They effectively told me today that I'm to lodge a complaint with the RTB and the notice isn't even up for another two months.

    I think some have not read the OP's first post. I have highlighted the important bit. I be taking a copy of the email to a solicitor. This seems to indicate the council are complicit in being in breach of contract. If it was me I would get a legal opinion

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #39
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭mad m


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Why is the council then telling me that if they haven't found a suitable house for the tenant ,they will be overholding until they have somewhere for them.

    I suppose the price of your house could be outside what the council will pay.


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    #40
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭mad m


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Why is the council then telling me that if they haven't found a suitable house for the tenant ,they will be overholding until they have somewhere for them.

    Email council and state you will be taking legal action and from now on any correspondence will be through your solicitor.

    I bet the tenant wants a place in the area, while the council should just say we have a place and it’s here, or here, or here. Take it or leave it. Has your tenant got kids and they go to a local school in the area?


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    #41
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭enricoh


    And they wonder why landlords are leaving in droves! Air bnb or let it through a multi national company Imo, anything else is pot luck!


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    #42
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    hawkelady wrote: »
    I received an email today from the council stating that if they cannot find them suitable accommodation in the same area they will be overholding !!
    Check with a solicitor over this, but I think maybe the council just gave you enough rope to hang them with? Don't show the CC your hand until after you talk to a solicitor.

    Also, ask your solicitor if you can use the sheriff to evict the family. If so, ask said solicitor if you can advise the the CC that you'll be evicting the tenants if they don't buy your house, with tenant inside?
    southstar wrote: »
    The fact is that for the most part it is tenants who are being squeezed with many unwilling to enforce their rights due to the uncertainty and insecurity inherent with present day renting.
    Tenants can overhold until evicted by a sheriff (that the LL has to pay for) after the LL goes through court (that the LL has to pay for), and as the tenant is on SW the LL will never see the thousands that they have lost in unpaid rent, court fee's, solicitors fees, sheriff fee's... and you say that unwilling to enforce their rights, when in fact they go beyond their rights?


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    #43
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Would it not be prudent to turn off all utilities whilst the house is waiting to be sold. In case of fire or flooding. Just to be safe. You don't want any squatters in there starting a fire etc.


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    #44
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,988 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    cursai wrote: »
    Would it not be prudent to turn off all utilities whilst the house is waiting to be sold. In case of fire or flooding. Just to be safe. You don't want any squatters in there starting a fire etc.



    It's completely illegal to turn off the water and utilities to squatters tenants who refuse to leave.

    The OP is doing everything by the book and the council have just told him they are going to overhold. The last thing the OP should be doing now is going anywhere near the property.


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    #45
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Del2005 wrote: »
    It's completely illegal to turn off the water and utilities to squatters tenants who refuse to leave.

    The OP is doing everything by the book and the council have just told him they are going to overhold. The last thing the OP should be doing now is going anywhere near the property.

    Oh I see. Its funny how the law works.


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    #46
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    cursai wrote: »
    Oh I see. Its funny how the law works.

    Nothing funny about it for the landlord. Councils are doing this all the time and have yet to be sued by any landlord. They are not going to **** themselves when they get a solicitor's letter.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I wonder if the person in the council sending/dictating this email were to be held financially accountable for this overholding, would they be sending this sort of correspondence in the first place?

    It’s like they are happy to pass the buck to their legal dept and off their desk rather than do the work in finding somewhere else for the tenant. Or is it the tenant that should be looking?

    It stinks regardless.


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    #48
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    TheChizler wrote: »
    The council have no responsibility over the tenant, their only responsibility beyond placing a tenant in the property is paying rent and acting as guarantor for the rent.

    I think the Council are responsible, I did not have an opportunity to have a look at my lease but working from memory the council have the right to choose the tenant and if that tenant moves within the lease the council have the right to re-let the property to another tenant they choose.


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    #49
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Giving you a heads up? They're possibly giving illegal advice to the tenant and maybe could be sued on that basis, but you can't hold them responsible for the actions of the tenant. Maybe claiming on the basis of illegal advice was what The Student was on about now that I think about it.

    I would be suing both parties for overholding as both are parties to the contract. I would not be suing the Council for illegal advise between the council and the tenant that is a matter for the tenant to decide if they were given illegal advise.

    From my perspective if I were in this situation following the outcome of the RTB hearing I would issue joint proceedings against the council and the tenant for overholding and breach of contract. I would almost guarantee you that upon receipt of pleadings to the councils legal dept (along with a copy of the email from the council that they suggested the tenant overhold) the council would not be long in moving the tenant out.


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    #50
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    I wonder if the person in the council sending/dictating this email were to be held financially accountable for this overholding, would they be sending this sort of correspondence in the first place?

    It’s like they are happy to pass the buck to their legal dept and off their desk rather than do the work in finding somewhere else for the tenant. Or is it the tenant that should be looking?

    It stinks regardless.

    The council told me that it's their responsibility to find adequate accommodation for them . As the tenants family is nearby and they have a child in school and they have no car they will have to be housed in the area they are in .. to be honest , property is at a premium in this particular area so I have a feeling the tenants have been told to stay put and don't fret !!
    The fact is I'll have to get a solicitor now and the cost that will entail, it makes me sad .. the only thing is that hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel which will see me out of this game altogether.


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    #51
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    hawkelady wrote: »
    The council told me that it's their responsibility to find adequate accommodation for them . As the tenants family is nearby and they have a child in school and they have no car they will have to be housed in the area they are in .. to be honest , property is at a premium in this particular area so I have a feeling the tenants have been told to stay put and don't fret !!
    The fact is I'll have to get a solicitor now and the cost that will entail, it makes me sad .. the only thing is that hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel which will see me out of this game altogether.

    I wonder, Are you still liable for the upkeep of the property as well?


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    hawkelady wrote: »
    The council told me that it's their responsibility to find adequate accommodation for them . As the tenants family is nearby and they have a child in school and they have no car they will have to be housed in the area they are in .. to be honest , property is at a premium in this particular area so I have a feeling the tenants have been told to stay put and don't fret !!
    The fact is I'll have to get a solicitor now and the cost that will entail, it makes me sad .. the only thing is that hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel which will see me out of this game altogether.

    It’s a crappy situation. I hope it all works out for you


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    #53
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Yes I am, I was told that last week by the council. I am still their landlord until they move out.. needless to say I won't be rushing over to get things replaced/ repaired like I had done in the past.

    Just to note, I have heard nothing from the council since the email yesterday . I've tried calling them but they just say "mr x will call you back within the hour". He never did.


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    #54
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Yes I am, I was told that last week by the council. I am still their landlord until they move out.. needless to say I won't be rushing over to get things replaced/ repaired like I had done in the past.

    Just to note, I have heard nothing from the council since the email yesterday . I've tried calling them but they just say "mr x will call you back within the hour". He never did.

    Jesus that's some. I've a fully kitted out granny flat on my property that o took of the market and turned into a man cave/den as there's no way i want to deal with the rental market. People tell me i'm mad not to. I live in the middle of a busy town. Scummy practices like this and passing the problem on.


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    #55
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    My next stop would be the media on this one. The journal would jump at that story. Might get it sorted faster and without any legal fees


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    #56
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Caranica wrote: »
    My next stop would be the media on this one. The journal would jump at that story. Might get it sorted faster and without any legal fees

    Ah listen, nice idea but I'm sure I'd be abused for being a lobster eating landlord who loves evicting people yada yada !!

    Sure when Richard Boyd Barrett is advocating overholding I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place


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    #57
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,341 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    The Student wrote: »
    Can you tell me of any other business were the owner is not free to dispose of its assets as it sees fit.

    Property rights are not unlimited as per the constitution. Housing *is* different because everyone needs a roof over their head.


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    #58
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,341 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Speak to a solicitor ASAP, as well advised in this thread. If you show you mean business the council may change their tune. And, in case of overholding, the sooner you engage the legal process the better it will be.


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    #59
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    The Student wrote: »
    I think the Council are responsible, I did not have an opportunity to have a look at my lease but working from memory the council have the right to choose the tenant and if that tenant moves within the lease the council have the right to re-let the property to another tenant they choose.
    As I mentioned, placing tenants in the property is one of their responsibilities.
    The Student wrote: »
    I would be suing both parties for overholding as both are parties to the contract. I would not be suing the Council for illegal advise between the council and the tenant that is a matter for the tenant to decide if they were given illegal advise.
    Are the same terms of the contract placed on both the council and tenant, are they jointly and severally liable? I don't think so. As long as the council keep up their end of the bargain, which is paying rent as long as the tenant is there, I don't know what part of the contract they would be in breach of.


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    #60
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Property rights are not unlimited as per the constitution. Housing *is* different because everyone needs a roof over their head.

    Housing is the responsibility of the State under the Constitution not a private business.


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    #61
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Are the same terms of the contract placed on both the council and tenant, are they jointly and severally liable? I don't think so. As long as the council keep up their end of the bargain, which is paying rent as long as the tenant is there, I don't know what part of the contract they would be in breach of.


    I know the council are totally responsible for finding tenants a new place to live when an eviction notice is served ..


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