Skehard Road Roadworks/Upgrade

cantalach

beer enigma wrote: »

Cyclists don't really come into it if you check before you turn.

The key phrase there is "if you check" and the evidence is out there - scientific and anecdotal - that even though motorists "check" they don't see cyclists and pedestrians. It's not a phenomenon born out of indifference or malice. It's just an evolutionary quirk of how our brains work. When we're in a critical decision mode ("before I leave the cave, I'd better check there isn't a sabre-toothed tiger outside..." which nowadays has become "before I turn, I'd better check there isn't an oncoming truck..."), the visual cortex optimises itself to spot larger, more dangerous objects and effectively filters out the cyclist/pedestrian as background noise. It's actually fascinating to learn about and you'll find lots of stuff online. Clearly, the idea with the red filters is to prevent these kind of situations from arising.

I live just off the Well Road, so as a motorist I know how frustrating it is to be stuck on the right turn red filter at 11:30PM with no oncoming traffic on the Douglas Road. But as a former racing cyclist who used to spend 12-15h a week on my bike during the summer months, I also know from countless incidents that motorists do not see cyclists. I've been lucky enough never to have had a serious injury from those incidents but many of my club mates have.

TheChizler

Old news but Phase 3 of the Skehard Road upgrade is due to start mid-2019 once they've sorted out CPO issues according to Kieran McCarthy, which explains why they're doing tidying up works with the existing road, and putting in sensors for the new lights in the old road surface. Some interesting information on the future of the area and Jacobs Island in the report here.

There's also small amount of info on the proposed bridge through Bessboro which I've seen mentioned a few places but never in any detail.

beer enigma

cantalach wrote: »

The key phrase there is "if you check" and the evidence is out there - scientific and anecdotal - that even though motorists "check" they don't see cyclists and pedestrians. It's not a phenomenon born out of indifference or malice. It's just an evolutionary quirk of how our brains work. When we're in a critical decision mode ("before I leave the cave, I'd better check there isn't a sabre-toothed tiger outside..." which nowadays has become "before I turn, I'd better check there isn't an oncoming truck..."), the visual cortex optimises itself to spot larger, more dangerous objects and effectively filters out the cyclist/pedestrian as background noise. It's actually fascinating to learn about and you'll find lots of stuff online. Clearly, the idea with the red filters is to prevent these kind of situations from arising.

I live just off the Well Road, so as a motorist I know how frustrating it is to be stuck on the right turn red filter at 11:30PM with no oncoming traffic on the Douglas Road. But as a former racing cyclist who used to spend 12-15h a week on my bike during the summer months, I also know from countless incidents that motorists do not see cyclists. I've been lucky enough never to have had a serious injury from those incidents but many of my club mates have.

I don't want to be contravesial but the guy in front of me turning right into SuperValu with a green filter got hit by a cyclist today who broke a red coming from Mahon. Fortunately no injuries. The lights aren't great

pwurple

Yes, I can't see why the lights are set up to let cars turn left down church road either, until after the cars turn right. If cyclists obey the lights too, so there should be no-one there to hit?

TheChizler

pwurple wrote: »

Yes, I can't see why the lights are set up to let cars turn left down church road either, until after the cars turn right. If cyclists obey the lights too, so there should be no-one there to hit?

Cars turning right coming from Mahon?

Karmella

TheChizler wrote: »

Cars turning right coming from Mahon?

Yes this arrow is green at the same time. Jeez it only seems to let about 3-4 cars go at a time though, and if the first car is daydreaming (or just can’t see the light as it’s really not obvious) then you wouldn’t get through at all. Before, that turn right arrow used to be on for much longer.

I guess it will take people time to get used to it all, and maybe they’ll play around with the light sequencing / timing .

Clamball

I am delighted with the light sequence now at Scallys, it lets the cars flow more freely from the Skehard road towards the CSO, but I am guessing there is a backlog on church road now.

The work at the CSO junction is almost complete and I was laughing out loud today at the few meters of a bus lane that appears on the Skehard road and then disappears after 200 meters on the link road to Mahon. I cannot see a bus waiting within 2/3 cars of the junction at the CSO taking the time to move into that bus lane. I can see them using it at the other side outside the CSO allright. And it will probably be good for all the cyclists to gather but all that effort for this little thing.

chalkitdown1

Are there plans to widen the link road from the CSO all the way to the next set of lights where it is two lanes, perhaps? All that's inside the wall on that stretch especially at the front of Abtran, is grass. They'd be smart to do it eventually.

TheChizler

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Are there plans to widen the link road from the CSO all the way to the next set of lights where it is two lanes, perhaps? All that's inside the wall on that stretch especially at the front of Abtran, is grass. They'd be smart to do it eventually.

There is in that development plan I linked to a few posts back. Wouldn't expect it until the development on the Macom site gets going. Pity in some ways, I like a tree lined road and the colours in the leaves there today while driving past were stunning. Be a shame to see them go.

From that report:

Discussions with John Cleary Developments (JCD) have indicated that following
the lapse of the existing planning permission it is intended to submit a new
application for the site for a development of approximately 17,000m2
of office
development (approximately a 50% reduction compared to the scheme which
previously had planning permission).
It is also understood that as part of the mitigation measures associated with this
revised planning application that JCD intend to implement a northbound and
southbound bus lane on the Mahon Link Road (subject to planning permission),
between the junction at St. Michael’s Drive to the south and the Skehard
Road/Mahon Link Road junction to the north (which is currently undergoing
construction as part of an improvement scheme which will provide approximately
160m of northbound and southbound bus lanes on the Mahon Link Road and bus
priority facilities on the Skehard Road).

Any ideas what the concrete plinths on the Link Road are for? Where the cycle lane splits into the bus lane going north and the bus lane ends going south.

Mefistofelino

TheChizler wrote: »

Any ideas what the concrete plinths on the Link Road are for? Where the cycle lane splits into the bus lane going north and the bus lane ends going south.

To stop vehicular traffic encroaching on the cycle lane as the road sweeps left. The outbound one already has a few tyre scuffs on it.

GavRedKing

The lights sequence is painfully long now.

Sat at the lights on the Mahon Point side waiting to turn right into Mahon/Blackrock at 10.45 last night and it was pushing 3 mins before I was through them, they were turning amber when I approached so it was the longest part of the sequence.

I would have been quicker turning right at the Mater private clinic and going through the back of Mahon.

TheChizler

GavRedKing wrote: »

The lights sequence is painfully long now.

The left filter coming from the link road no longer goes green while cars are turning right from Skehard Road, I can't see any good reason for this, it's the main route through the junction. One or two lights aren't working yet, hopefully they'll finalise the sequence when they come back to those ones.

GavRedKing

I seen that alright and a car at the lights next to me nearly took off, probably out of habit when the traffic were turning right from Skehard Road.

cantalach

TheChizler wrote: »

The left filter coming from the link road no longer goes green while cars are turning right from Skehard Road, I can't see any good reason for this, it's the main route through the junction. One or two lights aren't working yet, hopefully they'll finalise the sequence when they come back to those ones.

I'm hoping when everything is done that buses turning left waiting in that new physically segregated lane will get a priority filter for a few seconds before the general light goes green. If vehicles waiting to turn right from Skehard Road into Mahon Link Road are also held back by a red during these few seconds, this might help the problem of buses not being able to get around the corner. The slight softening of the apex will help too.

TheChizler

cantalach wrote: »

I'm hoping when everything is done that buses turning left waiting in that new physically segregated lane will get a priority filter for a few seconds before the general light goes green. If vehicles waiting to turn right from Skehard Road into Mahon Link Road are also held back by a red during these few seconds, this might help the problem of buses not being able to get around the corner. The slight softening of the apex will help too.

Good point. It's more than a few seconds at the moment though. Hopefully they put a sensor in that lane so the filter only comes on when a bus is actually there.

beer enigma

Have they painted the lane markings on the two lanes coming from Mahon at the lights for the Skehard Road yet ? three times so far I've been caught behind someone on the inside lane looking to go straight to Aldi while there was a green left filter.

TheChizler

beer enigma wrote: »

Have they painted the lane markings on the two lanes coming from Mahon at the lights for the Skehard Road yet ? three times so far I've been caught behind someone on the inside lane looking to go straight to Aldi while there was a green left filter.

Yeah they're there now. Main lane goes left and filter lane goes straight and right.

D'Agger

beer enigma wrote: »

Have they painted the lane markings on the two lanes coming from Mahon at the lights for the Skehard Road yet ? three times so far I've been caught behind someone on the inside lane looking to go straight to Aldi while there was a green left filter.

It's better than being caught behind a guy who needs to go left but is looking at the lights straight ahead, ignores the beeping for the green left arrow until the main light for Aldi goes green

Clamball

I worry about those two lanes turning left at the Mahon Link/ Skehard Road junction at CSO. If the bus lane gets a green light for a few seconds before the main car lane it will allow them to turn safely. But what happens when both lanes turn at the same time into Skehard road. Who get priority? I was thinking the cars because they will be at the right of the bus/taxi/bicyclist and they should yield for traffic from their right. I was trying to think of another junction around the city which has the same setup.

GavRedKing

I'd give the bus priority given the size of it.

In all seriousness though, I would give the bus priority, chances are it will be stopping by the garage a few meters after the lights anyway, so even if it gets a few seconds to clear the lane first, so be it.

As long as drivers are paying attention, it shouldn't be an issue.

TheChizler

Clamball wrote: »

I worry about those two lanes turning left at the Mahon Link/ Skehard Road junction at CSO. If the bus lane gets a green light for a few seconds before the main car lane it will allow them to turn safely. But what happens when both lanes turn at the same time into Skehard road. Who get priority? I was thinking the cars because they will be at the right of the bus/taxi/bicyclist and they should yield for traffic from their right. I was trying to think of another junction around the city which has the same setup.

The junction of Sheares St. and Grattan St. has a similar setup now, except turning right. Not sure what happens with the lights as the bus has always been in the main traffic lane whenever I've seen it.

Driving through the CSO junction today I was queueing to go left with the queue made up of people going straight on or right reaching back to before the lane splits. Was overtaken by about 7 or 8 people using the bus lane to get past the traffic. I stayed in the main lane and someone illegally overtaking on the left nearly drove into my rear left when I got moving again.

GavRedKing

TheChizler wrote: »

The junction of Sheares St. and Grattan St. has a similar setup now, except turning right. Not sure what happens with the lights as the bus has always been in the main traffic lane whenever I've seen it.

Driving through the CSO junction today I was queueing to go left with the queue made up of people going straight on or right reaching back to before the lane splits. Was overtaken by about 7 or 8 people using the bus lane to get past the traffic. I stayed in the main lane and someone illegally overtaking on the left nearly drove into my rear left when I got moving again.

I can see that being abused alright although imagine someone tipping your car from the bus lane will be in for a world of pain giving they shouldn't have been in their in the first place.

beer enigma

GavRedKing wrote: »

I can see that being abused alright although imagine someone tipping your car from the bus lane will be in for a world of pain giving they shouldn't have been in their in the first place.

Its a free for all at the moment. The lane markings in the road either need to be further back or they need a vertical sign. with the traffic backed up, I saw a couple of drivers in the left lane looking to go straight. the markings were covered by static vehicles, it was pretty funny but very frustrating.

Patrick 1959

Driving down the Skehard Just after noon at the Woodvale road junction ,saw worker digging up the newly laid tarmac.

TheChizler

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

Driving down the Skehard Just after noon at the Woodvale road junction ,saw worker digging up the newly laid tarmac.

They've been putting in manhole covers the past week. They seemed to tar over the access points the first time.

Edit: And I'm sure that was intentional and normal in case it sounded like I was insinuating otherwise!

GiftGrub100

Had the “pleasure” of seeing the new Skehard road junctions tonight by O’Learys/CSO, what a mess, due to what I assume was a lights issue traffic turning left towards Maxol was limited to four cars per light sequence, cars queuing back beyond B&Q at 7.30 pm !

When you get to the junction a bus lane on the left which looks impossible for the bus to turn left from is blocked off, whoever designed this deserves a Darwin Award, Traffic would surely flow better if they used the three lanes facing North for left, straight and right, rather than bus (closed), left and right.

Also assume the same bright spark decided to put the concrete road islands at the narrowest point of the road, where bus lane ends and road reverts back to cycle and car lanes.

I am sure there is some logical reason behind all this mess, but as we has a good working junction beforehand, how did they make it so bad.

D'Agger

GiftGrub100 wrote: »

I am sure there is some logical reason behind all this mess, but as we has a good working junction beforehand, how did they make it so bad.

I'm sorry but no we didn't, that's not to say I don't agree with most of what you're saying, I reckon they've made the flow worse and the concrete island is out of place, but the big problem was the bus stop at Maxol and the stop at Scallys holding up traffic, now, I think Scallys is sorted, but, given they've put a new stop across from the CSO where there's space, they should surely get rid of the Maxol bus stop on account of all the hassle it causes.

TheChizler

GiftGrub100 wrote: »

Had the “pleasure” of seeing the new Skehard road junctions tonight by O’Learys/CSO, what a mess, due to what I assume was a lights issue traffic turning left towards Maxol was limited to four cars per light sequence, cars queuing back beyond B&Q at 7.30 pm !

When you get to the junction a bus lane on the left which looks impossible for the bus to turn left from is blocked off, whoever designed this deserves a Darwin Award, Traffic would surely flow better if they used the three lanes facing North for left, straight and right, rather than bus (closed), left and right.

This is due to the filter lane for going straight towards Aldi or right being reduced in length by 10-20 metres, it fills up much quicker now and overflows back the main lane blocking it. Some people jump the queue by using the bus lane and while I'd normally be very against this it does improve the flow. As long as you don't get eejits sitting in the bus lane when the actual bus comes around.
There's enough room for busses to swing in the bus gate to the left all right, as far as I can gather they haven't opened it yet as they haven't got around to installing the loop for detecting the bus. There's been two lads going around with a truck the last few weeks finishing drains and making holes for access points, presumably/hopefully they'll get around to it one of these days.

D'Agger wrote: »

I think Scallys is sorted

Scally's WAS sorted, but they changed the light sequence Monday and traffic has been backed up as far as Boreenmanna Road the last two mornings. :mad:

Dozy people were constantly breaking the lights, going straight on when the right only light went green for example. I suppose they had to do something but it's a disaster now.

cork_south

4 car crash outside kilbrack lawn a few days ago. 2 cars ended up upsidedown.
Cars are speeding in the bus/taxi lanes.

In 40 years I dont remember an accident on that stretch of road.

Bad design.

Karmella

cork_south wrote: »

4 car crash outside kilbrack lawn a few days ago. 2 cars ended up upsidedown.
Cars are speeding in the bus/taxi lanes.

In 40 years I dont remember an accident on that stretch of road.

Bad design.

I saw that incident yesterday - it wasn’t someone speeding in the bus lane. A lunatic flew up past the line of cars going towards Mahon on the wrong side of the road and then tried to pull in to avoid an oncoming car (he didn’t). Ploughed into that car and lost control and ploughed into other cars and probably a parked car outside the doctors office. It was bloody frightening.