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Skehard Road Roadworks/Upgrade

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    #122
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Saw the remains of that car on a lorry being taken away while I was sick in the resulting traffic. We're they trying to skip down Clover Lane towards the golf club? Hopefully no injuries.


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    #123
    Karmella
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Karmella


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Saw the remains of that car on a lorry being taken away while I was sick in the resulting traffic. We're they trying to skip down Clover Lane towards the golf club? Hopefully no injuries.

    God only knows, he wasn’t anywhere near the turn off for the golf club. it was a young fella he didn’t look more than 17/18.. it didn’t look like anyone was seriously injured ... but he’s lucky he didn’t kill someone. There were a lot of pedestrians around - kids in buggies from the preschool, people coming out of the GP’s, it was just after 12. I had my son in the back of my car and the crash was only 5/6 cars in front of me. I saw him get out of the car after, it was surreal.


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    #124
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭cantalach


    cork_south wrote: »
    Bad design.

    Some idiot goes flying down the wrong side of the road trying to avoid a line of traffic and you blame the road. Because of course nobody is ever personally responsible for anything anymore - it's always somebody else's fault.


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    #125
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    cantalach wrote: »
    cork_south wrote: »
    Bad design.

    Some idiot goes flying down the wrong side of the road trying to avoid a line of traffic and you blame the road. Because of course nobody is ever personally responsible for anything anymore - it's always somebody else's fault.

    Bad design.


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    #126
    D'Agger
    Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    cork_south wrote: »
    Bad design.
    What specific aspect of the design is bad do you think the widening of it?


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    #127
    xabi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭xabi


    Never know an accident in that stretch of road, but I’ve seen a few near misses since the upgrade. The issue is turning right when there’s a queue, taxis are absolutely hammering down the bus lane and people can’t see them until it’s nearly too late.


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    #128
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    cantalach wrote: »
    cork_south wrote: »
    Bad design.

    Some idiot goes flying down the wrong side of the road trying to avoid a line of traffic and you blame the road. Because of course nobody is ever personally responsible for anything anymore - it's always somebody else's fault.

    2 crashes in 2 days.

    As I already said the place is a deathtrap since it was "renovated"

    Review the comments or ask the locals.
    https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3OTI0MDQyMDM6MTAyMTA2MzE5OTIzNTQ2MzY=


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    #129
    D'Agger
    Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    cork_south wrote: »
    2 crashes in 2 days.

    As I already said the place is a deathtrap since it was "renovated"

    Review the comments or ask the locals.
    https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3OTI0MDQyMDM6MTAyMTA2MzE5OTIzNTQ2MzY%3D
    The comments on that seem to point to use of the bus lane by those who shouldn't be and those who should speeding in it rather than the road itself, so, again, what would you say is the worst aspect of the road design that is to blame for crashes here? It's my opinion that people not understanding the rules of the road or inability to comprehend a road layout coupled with speeding cause crashes, not the design of a road.


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    #130
    Mardyke
    Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭Mardyke


    Crashes only happening since the Patrick St car ban...


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    #131
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    D'Agger wrote: »
    The comments on that seem to point to use of the bus lane by those who shouldn't be and those who should speeding in it rather than the road itself, so, again, what would you say is the worst aspect of the road design that is to blame for crashes here? It's my opinion that people not understanding the rules of the road or inability to comprehend a road layout coupled with speeding cause crashes, not the design of a road.

    AS I already mentioned initially - "Cars are speeding in the bus/taxi lanes". This is backed up by what locals are saying on that video post.

    It's just a matter of time before the next crash.

    Maybe it's just me but I prefer the old design, the one that didn't allow lunatics to speed along it causing crashes and risk of death.


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    #132
    D'Agger
    Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    cork_south wrote: »
    AS I already mentioned initially - "Cars are speeding in the bus/taxi lanes". This is backed up by what locals are saying on that video post.

    It's just a matter of time before the next crash.

    Maybe it's just me but I prefer the old design, the one that didn't allow lunatics to speed along it causing crashes and risk of death.
    There's a grave need for a bus/taxi lane on that road, though I've pointed out previously - the Maxol bus stop still being there is by and far the dumbest decision of the entire process - when you consider they widened the path for a bicycle lane instead of space for a bus to pull in and not affect traffic flow. I think that area needed more tinkering with than Skehard Road did.

    That said, I don't think you can fault the design of a road - the crashes seem to be an issue with drivers misusing it and to dangerous levels. As per how to resolve it, I don't quite know.


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    #133
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    D'Agger wrote: »
    There's a grave need for a bus/taxi lane on that road, though I've pointed out previously - the Maxol bus stop still being there is by and far the dumbest decision of the entire process - when you consider they widened the path for a bicycle lane instead of space for a bus to pull in and not affect traffic flow. I think that area needed more tinkering with than Skehard Road did.

    That said, I don't think you can fault the design of a road - the crashes seem to be an issue with drivers misusing it and to dangerous levels. As per how to resolve it, I don't quite know.
    They're tackling the stretch from Maxol to Supervalu starting January


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    #134
    D'Agger
    Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    Thank fúck, if it was left the way it is now you'd have to despair for whoever planned it.

    I mentioned previously, or perhaps on another thread - why is there even a stop there? there's a stop less than 50 metres away with a bench and cover it's something that adds to congestion imo


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    #135
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    cork_south wrote: »
    Maybe it's just me but I prefer the old design, the one that didn't allow lunatics to speed along it causing crashes and risk of death.
    Unless you reduce it to a single lane one-way you're not going to stop learners bombing it on the wrong side of the road.

    (a small assumption but the car demolished in this accident had L plates as I saw it being towed away and someone else said the driver was very young)


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    #136
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭cantalach


    cork_south wrote: »
    Maybe it's just me but I prefer the old design, the one that didn't allow lunatics to speed along it causing crashes and risk of death.

    Surely the solution to that is meaningful enforcement, much larger fines, and longer driving bans.


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    #137
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    cantalach wrote: »
    Surely the solution to that is meaningful enforcement, much larger fines, and longer driving bans.

    Having to do that, is actually evidence of bad design. Good design doesn’t let you go wrong, steers you into the correct route / behaviour subconsciously. Traffic calming for example.

    When you have to enforce something, or give explicit instructions on it, it means it is designed to let you make that error.

    Push doors with pull handles on them for example.

    Here’s what I mean (this is about a shower rather than a road, but you get the idea)
    https://www.mindtheproduct.com/2013/07/why-your-products-controls-should-have-no-labels/


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    #138
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭cantalach


    pwurple wrote: »
    Having to do that, is actually evidence of bad design. Good design doesn’t let you go wrong, steers you into the correct route / behaviour subconsciously. Traffic calming for example.

    And if a coffee cup doesn't have a warning on it stating that coffee is a hot drink, then it's not my fault if I burn myself. The cup was badly designed...


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    #139
    GavRedKing
    Registered Users Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    cork_south wrote: »
    2 crashes in 2 days.

    As I already said the place is a deathtrap since it was "renovated"

    Review the comments or ask the locals.
    https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3OTI0MDQyMDM6MTAyMTA2MzE5OTIzNTQ2MzY%3D

    I don't know about death trap, I mean nobody has died.

    No amount of road upgrades/widening/narrowing will take into account or curtail idiots using the road daily and taking chances.


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    #140
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    GavRedKing wrote: »
    cork_south wrote: »
    2 crashes in 2 days.

    As I already said the place is a deathtrap since it was "renovated"

    Review the comments or ask the locals.
    https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3OTI0MDQyMDM6MTAyMTA2MzE5OTIzNTQ2MzY%3D

    I don't know about death trap, I mean nobody has died.

    Unfortunately I have heard differently.


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    #141
    GavRedKing
    Registered Users Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    Do you have any evidence of such?


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    #142
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    The new bus gate seemed to be up and running this evening. Thing is the bus light was going green when there was nothing in the bus lane, effectively lengthening the cycle for no reason. Hopefully it's just temporary.


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    #143
    xabi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭xabi


    Another minor crash there this morning, Car turning right onto Woodvale road clipped by a Taxi flying down bus lane. The usual scenario, traffic backed up heading to Mahon so right turner couldnt see Taxi.


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    #144
    chalkitdown1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭chalkitdown1


    TheChizler wrote: »
    The new bus gate seemed to be up and running this evening. Thing is the bus light was going green when there was nothing in the bus lane, effectively lengthening the cycle for no reason. Hopefully it's just temporary.

    Passed there at the weekend and the bus lane is still blocked up by cones. What's the actual point of that lane coming off the link road if they're not gonna let the buses use it? :rolleyes:


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    #145
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    chalkitdown1 wrote: »
    Passed there at the weekend and the bus lane is still blocked up by cones. What's the actual point of that lane coming off the link road if they're not gonna let the buses use it? :rolleyes:
    Yeah I don't know what I thought I saw then, that the lights were working maybe? At this stage I'm thinking they're waiting until completing the middle section before opening the bus gate.


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    #146
    Clamball
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Clamball


    xabi wrote: »
    Another minor crash there this morning, Car turning right onto Woodvale road clipped by a Taxi flying down bus lane. The usual scenario, traffic backed up heading to Mahon so right turner couldnt see Taxi.

    Another crash Friday morning. The people turning into woodvale from the Skehard road are in the wrong, they do not look out for cars/buses or taxis in the second lane. It should be only residents that are allowed to make that turn into woodvale, all other traffic should continue on to the junction of skehard road and Silverdale and turn at the lights there where they have a filter lane. It is people using it as a rat run to drop their kids to school are using woodvale and they should be more concerned about the safety of their kids than taking rat runs.


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    #147
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Rat run? It's the most direct way is it not? To get there from any other main road takes at least one more turn at a junction. Not sure how you could make it residents only considering how the school is in the middle of a housing estate.

    I know in principle it's the wrong thing to do but I think the only thing that might prevent accidents there is to put some sort of traffic calming in the bus lane instead, to slow down traffic in the bus lane as it approaches the junction.


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    #148
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    Clamball wrote: »
    xabi wrote: »
    Another minor crash there this morning, Car turning right onto Woodvale road clipped by a Taxi flying down bus lane. The usual scenario, traffic backed up heading to Mahon so right turner couldnt see Taxi.

    Another crash Friday morning. The people turning into woodvale from the Skehard road are in the wrong, they do not look out for cars/buses or taxis in the second lane. It should be only residents that are allowed to make that turn into woodvale, all other traffic should continue on to the junction of skehard road and Silverdale and turn at the lights there where they have a filter lane. It is people using it as a rat run to drop their kids to school are using woodvale and they should be more concerned about the safety of their kids than taking rat runs.

    So you want to put extra traffic through Silverdale and Ashleigh estates and then to Woodvale, instead of the traffic going directly to Woodvale?


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    #149
    Clamball
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Clamball


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Rat run? It's the most direct way is it not? To get there from any other main road takes at least one more turn at a junction. Not sure how you could make it residents only considering how the school is in the middle of a housing estate.

    I know in principle it's the wrong thing to do but I think the only thing that might prevent accidents there is to put some sort of traffic calming in the bus lane instead, to slow down traffic in the bus lane as it approaches the junction.

    I think it is all perception that the traffic in the bus lane is going over the speed limit, it is the people who are turning into woodvale are not paying any attention or making sure their way is clear. If they want to get their kids to school safely they need to go another route.
    cork_south wrote: »
    So you want to put extra traffic through Silverdale and Ashleigh estates and then to Woodvale, instead of the traffic going directly to Woodvale?

    Yes, if they insist on turning right off Skehard road to get into the housing estates. If they were residents they would know full well the dangers of crossing two lanes of traffic without sight of the second lane, but if they are using the turn as a rat run they need to reconsider their route. They must be coming from somewhere beyone Scallys if they are driving along skehard road and want to turn right into Woodvale, they need to either go church road and along Beaumount or else wait for the filter light at Silverdale. Otherwise they are putting their kids at risk. And I certainly would not like drivers like that going through any of the housing estates, they are a danger to other kids walking to school as they clearly are not paying proper attention if they cross lanes of traffic without checking for oncoming vehicles.


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    #150
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    Clamball wrote: »
    TheChizler wrote: »
    Rat run? It's the most direct way is it not? To get there from any other main road takes at least one more turn at a junction. Not sure how you could make it residents only considering how the school is in the middle of a housing estate.

    I know in principle it's the wrong thing to do but I think the only thing that might prevent accidents there is to put some sort of traffic calming in the bus lane instead, to slow down traffic in the bus lane as it approaches the junction.

    I think it is all perception that the traffic in the bus lane is going over the speed limit, it is the people who are turning into woodvale are not paying any attention or making sure their way is clear. If they want to get their kids to school safely they need to go another route.
    cork_south wrote: »
    So you want to put extra traffic through Silverdale and Ashleigh estates and then to Woodvale, instead of the traffic going directly to Woodvale?

    Yes, if they insist on turning right off Skehard road to get into the housing estates. If they were residents they would know full well the dangers of crossing two lanes of traffic without sight of the second lane, but if they are using the turn as a rat run they need to reconsider their route.

    And I certainly would not like drivers like that going through any of the housing estates, they are a danger to other kids walking to school as they clearly are not paying proper attention if they cross lanes of traffic without checking for oncoming vehicles.

    So you want "drivers like that" driving through 3 seperate residential housing estates, rather than driving directly through 1, to get to their destination?
    If so, I'm not sure you fully understand what a rat run is.

    I'm also fairly sure the residents of Silverdale and Ashleigh would not be very happy with your proposed solution.


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    #151
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Clamball wrote: »
    I think it is all perception that the traffic in the bus lane is going over the speed limit, it is the people who are turning into woodvale are not paying any attention or making sure their way is clear. If they want to get their kids to school safely they need to go another route.
    I never said anything about anyone breaking the speed limit.

    The problem is of course the people turning but apart from putting up a no right turn sign, which could be unnecessarily restrictive, I can't think of a way to prevent them doing what they're doing. If you were to slow down the bus lane at that point it would mean everyone's going much slower at the point of collision and it might be avoided or the severity reduced.


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