Is Hell Real ?

tayto lover

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

Read my previous post. To clarify, the people who end up in hell hate God, and they will never repent. They are Lucifer and his fallen angels, who try to disrupt the coming of the eternal kingdom of love and peace. They deserve no rest, and they will get no rest, forever.

Do you actually believe all this stuff?
Why would anyone hate God or anyone else for that fact forever?

dr.fuzzenstein

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

Read my previous post. To clarify, the people who end up in hell hate God, and they will never repent. They are Lucifer and his fallen angels, who try to disrupt the coming of the eternal kingdom of love and peace. They deserve no rest, and they will get no rest, forever.

I don't hate God, because there is no point hating an idea, or fictional concept. I might as well hate the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
The problem lies with people who say "do as I say or you'll go to hell forever".
With all respect, but "because I say so" doesn't cut it. Of course you could say "God says so", but we're at square one with that one.
Taking this one step further, imagine if there are thousands of inhabited planets in this galaxy alone with thousands upon thousands of belief systems, how do we know Christianity alone is the One True Faith?
Answers on a postcard...

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

tayto lover wrote:

Do you actually believe all this stuff? Why would anyone hate God or anyone else for that fact forever?

The devil and his acolytes hate God.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

I don't hate God, because there is no point hating an idea, or fictional concept. I might as well hate the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. The problem lies with people who say "do as I say or you'll go to hell forever". With all respect, but "because I say so" doesn't cut it. Of course you could say "God says so", but we're at square one with that one. Taking this one step further, imagine if there are thousands of inhabited planets in this galaxy alone with thousands upon thousands of belief systems, how do we know Christianity alone is the One True Faith? Answers on a postcard...

If you don't believe in God, you cannot enter Heaven.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

"Go out into the whole world and preach the Good News. He who believes and is baptised will be saved. He who does not believe will be condemned."

jones 19

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

If you don't believe in God, you cannot enter Heaven.

I wouldn't want to go to his heaven, not when he, the almighty allows rape, murder, genocide, child molestation, mass rape, poverty. Disease, which is on a huge level, we have hell on earth here in spades. We also have heaven on earth too, love, family, joy, fun. Nature bla bla bla, but is there hell or heaven when we die, no get a grip and focus on your brief time here on planet earth. Don't be wasting your time on books that were written 2000 + years ago when **** couldn't be disproven Ffs.

dr.fuzzenstein

jones 19 wrote: »

I wouldn't want to go to his heaven, not when he, the almighty allows rape, murder, genocide, child molestation, mass rape, poverty. Disease, which is on a huge level, we have hell on earth here in spades. We also have heaven on earth too, love, family, joy, fun. Nature bla bla bla, but is there hell or heaven when we die, no get a grip and focus on your brief time here on planet earth. Don't be wasting your time on books that were written 2000 + years ago when **** couldn't be disproven Ffs.

There I have to defend God. We manage to do all that by ourselves.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

There I have to defend God. We manage to do all that by ourselves.

Good man, thank you.

tayto lover

But why would God want revenge and punishment for eternity for sinners particularly when he tells us to turn the other cheek? Seems hypocritical.

PopePalpatine

tayto lover wrote: »

But why would God want revenge and punishment for eternity for sinners particularly when he tells us to turn the other cheek? Seems hypocritical.

It turns out he's Christian Grey.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

tayto lover wrote:

But why would God want revenge and punishment for eternity for sinners particularly when he tells us to turn the other cheek? Seems hypocritical.

He doesn't want revenge. He wants everyone to share in the Heavenly bliss. However, everyone is born with an eternal soul, and some decide they don't want to be with Him. They hate Him eternally. If God took a soul from hell after a thousand years, it would still hate Him. It can do no other, because it is from the devil. Many souls descending into hell utter the words "Woe that I was ever conceived! Woe that I was ever born!"

Professor Moriarty

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

He doesn't want revenge. He wants everyone to share in the Heavenly bliss. However, everyone is born with an eternal soul, and some decide they don't want to be with Him. They hate Him eternally. If God took a soul from hell after a thousand years, it would still hate Him. It can do no other, because it is from the devil. Many souls descending into hell utter the words "Woe that I was ever conceived! Woe that I was ever born!"

What is interesting is that there are very few mainstream Christian members of the clergy who would agree with this understanding of hell.

tayto lover

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What is interesting is that there are very few mainstream Christian members of the clergy who would agree with this understanding of hell.

Yes. The poster's interpretation seems to be that we are all born to be punished.

nozzferrahhtoo

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

You are driving me mad. I tell you this, hell is real, and you wouldn't want to end up there. Over the gates of hell these words are proclaimed : "Abandon hope all ye who enter here".

So your evidence for hell being real is that you are telling me hell is real? Well that's a bit.... circular..... and somewhat.... empty don~t you think?

Sure there was only a guy a few weeks ago going door to door selling some magic ointment that he swore would cure all sorts of things. His evidence was that he SWORE to me it would cure all sorts of things.

You probably would have bought that stuff I guess?

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

If you don't believe in God, you cannot enter Heaven.

I am going to assume at this point that your evidence for the existence of god is going to turn out to be somewhat identical to your evidence for the existence of hell? That being: your say so?

GritBiscuit

And what's the point in threatening a forum of people who don't believe in your god with all the things you reckon your god thinks or will do? It's like telling kids in Nepal that if they aren't good santa isn't coming...

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

tayto lover wrote:

Yes. The poster's interpretation seems to be that we are all born to be punished.

No, I say that only the sons and daughters of the devil are rightly punished.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:

I am going to assume at this point that your evidence for the existence of god is going to turn out to be somewhat identical to your evidence for the existence of hell? That being: your say so?

I know it because it says so in the gospels.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

GritBiscuit wrote:

And what's the point in threatening a forum of people who don't believe in your god with all the things you reckon your god thinks or will do? It's like telling kids in Nepal that if they aren't good santa isn't coming...

I told you only unrepentant evildoers find their way into hell. Everyone else has nothing to fear.

GritBiscuit

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I told you only unrepentant evildoers find their way into hell. Everyone else has nothing to fear.

I don't fear anything anyway...just missing the relevance of the message, I guess.

Thus far it appears to amount to: a god I don't believe in punishes the sons and daughters of a devil I don't believe in for not adhering to a book I don't place any literal value in whatsoever.

Uhhh...yay?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Hiberno12345 wrote:

There are perfectly normal and logical explanations for Amanda's and Raf's behaviour, even for her false confession and implication of my friend Patrick Lumumba. They have been reconvicted the third time around only for the Italian authorities to save face, but my guess is, they will find a way to exonerate Raffaele (and duly so) and they will never demand for Amanda to be extradited. Why not? Because then, the American authorities would require every single little detail about the case and its investigation which would make them an international laughing stock of incompetence and sheer and embarrassing ignorance of the most basic criminal investigation techniques.

GritBiscuit wrote:

Thus far it appears to amount to: a god I don't believe in punishes the sons and daughters of a devil I don't believe in for not adhering to a book I don't place any literal value in whatsoever.

That's your own business. You are entitled not to believe. God gives you that freedom. What have you to fear? Except that you will never enter the Kingdom of God.

nozzferrahhtoo

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I know it because it says so in the gospels.

So I was right then? "say so" is basically all you got. You have no actual evidence, arguments, data or reasoning to offer us that is even the first SHRED of evidence the claim is true or credible.

Well color me surprised.

GritBiscuit

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

That's your own business. You are entitled not to believe. God gives you that freedom. What have you to fear? Except that you will never enter the Kingdom of God.

Yeah, yeah. Sure he does. Good old free will...kinda like how your god chose to create a planet that functions by trying to kill it's inhabitants, go out of his way to make a worm who blinds children as it burrows out of their eyes and cancer. Sounds like a stellar guy I'd be crazy not to want to spend eternity with....

I fear it about as much as you fear not entering Moksha...for the very same reasons. We have more in common than not, if you think about it.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

GritBiscuit wrote:

Yeah, yeah. Sure he does. Good old free will...kinda like how your god chose to create a planet that functions by trying to kill it's inhabitants, go out of his way to make a worm who blinds children as it burrows out of their eyes and cancer. Sounds like a stellar guy I'd be crazy not to want to spend eternity with....

GritBiscuit wrote:

I fear it about as much as you fear not entering Moksha...for the very same reasons. We have more in common than not, if you think about it.

Goodnight.

Hotblack Desiato

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

If you don't believe in God, you cannot enter Heaven.

It doesn't exist so I'm cool with that.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:

So I was right then? "say so" is basically all you got. You have no actual evidence, arguments, data or reasoning to offer us that is even the first SHRED of evidence the claim is true or credible.

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:

Well color me surprised.

Goodbye.

Hotblack Desiato

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I know it because it says so in the gospels.

The gospels are fiction.

Hotblack Desiato

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

However, everyone is born with an eternal soul, and some decide they don't want to be with Him. They hate Him eternally.

Your god sounds like the ultimate needy narcissistic teenage girl.

"He doesn't want to go out with me, that means he must hate me!!!!!"

pauldla

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I know it because it says so in the gospels.

The gospels are fiction.

I wouldn’t call them fiction. Gobbledygook that veers from the insipid to the truly bizarre, with the odd pseudo-profundity thrown in, perhaps, but not fiction.

RichieO

Hell and heaven can only exist in the imagination of the deluded, youtube is not a reliable source of information, be careful what you believe...

antiskeptic

RichieO wrote: »

Hell and heaven can only exist in the imagination of the deluded,

Early poster syndrome.

Avatar MIA

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

... you will never enter the Kingdom of God.

PSSSST Neither will you !

Hotblack Desiato

pauldla wrote: »

I wouldn’t call them fiction. Gobbledygook that veers from the insipid to the truly bizarre, with the odd pseudo-profundity thrown in, perhaps, but not fiction.

Why not?

Do you think walking on water, raising the dead, turning water into wine, a guy stuck in a tomb for three days was resurrected, etc. actually happened? Harry Potter has as much if not more relation to reality than the gospels do. They're not even consistent with each other, never mind the historical record of the period. They are fiction constructed long after the 'fact' was supposed to have taken place.

Avatar MIA

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They're not even consistent with each other, never mind the historical record of the period.

My own personal favourite is the listing of Jesus' ancestors being totally different in two different gospels. AND I know some are now itching to type a response. But, to save you time. I know the stock response. One was his maternal and the other paternal. But, my response to that and you can certainly respond to this...

Why bother to list the paternal "ancestry" - Jospeh wasn't his father right, certainly those writing the gospels would have assumed Joseph wasn't his father. So, shouldn't his paternal line simply read Yahweh?

antiskeptic

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Why bother to list the paternal "ancestry" - Jospeh wasn't his father right, certainly those writing the gospels would have assumed Joseph wasn't his father. So, shouldn't his paternal line simply read Yahweh?

Licked quickly off the web.

"Matthew traces the genealogy of Jesus from Abraham, the father of the Jewish nation, through David, the King of Judah to whom God made the Davidic covenant. This shows Jesus in the line of Abraham and David, but Matthew does not say that Jesus is the actual son of Joseph—only that he is in the Messianic line through Joseph. By implication, he is the legal son of Joseph by adoption."

Legal reasons thus.

You set the standards for your "favorites" fairly low.

RichieO

antiskeptic wrote: »

Early poster syndrome.

Preferable to PMS, which seems to be your problem...

antiskeptic

RichieO wrote: »

Preferable to PMS, which seems to be your problem...

Even Dawkins stops short of what you claim to be the case - which is saying something

Hell and heaven can only exist in the imagination of the deluded

Can only. That's a statement awaiting a proof. So go prove.

Avatar MIA

antiskeptic wrote: »

Licked quickly off the web.

"Matthew traces the genealogy of Jesus from Abraham, the father of the Jewish nation, through David, the King of Judah to whom God made the Davidic covenant. This shows Jesus in the line of Abraham and David, but Matthew does not say that Jesus is the actual son of Joseph—only that he is in the Messianic line through Joseph. By implication, he is the legal son of Joseph by adoption."

Legal reasons thus.

You set the standards for your "favorites" fairly low.

Yes, the above is the stock answer. I'm familiar with this.

Mark Hamill

antiskeptic wrote: »

We aren't acting on the basis of our going to heaven or hell.
...
If your choice is for good because, for instance, you calculatingly think that will earn you points towards salvation then the algorithm notes the heart motivation behind it and the supposed good is assessed accordingly.

You've pretty much directly contradicted yourself here.

antiskeptic wrote: »

The algorithm considers the whole of your life - not just your intellectual musings on the subject of heaven and hell. It considers the, literally, hundreds and hundreds of ways every day in which you chose/think/act ... and desire to choose/think/act even when choosing/thinking/acting contrary to that desire.

But you can't control your subconscious desires, you can only choose to act on them. If your algorithm judges you even if you choose to reject a subconsious desire to sin, then it still isn't based on an equal choice. It's worse now, it's not even a choice anymore, you are (at least partially) judged for your subconscious, which you have no control over.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Believers are as prone to Dawkinsian-level caricatures as is Dawkins.

It can hardly be called "Darkinsian" when it's the classical christian interpretation.
Do you have biblical source for your understanding of hell?

antiskeptic wrote: »

The consequences won't be enjoyed, and can be therefore considered bad.

Why wont they enjoy it? If people repeatedly choosing sin are choosing to reject god then wouldn't they enjoy a place where god is rejected 24/7? Are we back to a "hell is eternal torture" scenario?
Can you describe what you think hell is like? Without just saying it is the lack of gods grace or anything like that.

Mark Hamill

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

Nonsensical eternal punishment! Dream on, friend.

What purpose does eternal punishment serve over, say, 100 years of punishment? Or 10,000 years? Or even a million?

Mark Hamill

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I know it because it says so in the gospels.

Why do you believe the gospels?

RichieO

antiskeptic wrote: »

Even Dawkins stops short of what you claim to be the case - which is saying something


Can only. That's a statement awaiting a proof. So go prove.[/QUOTE

]I contend such a place does not exist in reality, you contend it does, I do not need to prove a fiction, but you do need to prove what you consider to be a fact…

Nekarsulm

Seeing these threads in Aethiest and Agnostic forum always puzzles me.
The entire precept of your reasoning is that there is no God or anything pertaining to such a being/presence, so why wonder about imaginary places that don't exist?

It's like discussing cricket in the official GAA forum!

tayto lover

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Seeing these threads in Aethiest and Agnostic forum always puzzles me.
The entire precept of your reasoning is that there is no God or anything pertaining to such a being/presence, so why wonder about imaginary places that don't exist?

It's like discussing cricket in the official GAA forum!

Maybe looking for evidence in order to be converted, if it exists?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

I'm afraid that you are wrong there. I will go to Heaven because I am a Son of God.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

I'm warning you that it's not fiction. Every word of the holy Bible is true. It is the Word of God. Please pay attention to what I say. Before it is too late, and you are overcome by the darkness. By then it will be too late.

Avatar MIA

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I'm warning you that it's not fiction. Every word of the holy Bible is true. It is the Word of God. Please pay attention to what I say. Before it is too late, and you are overcome by the darkness. By then it will be too late.

What religion are you? AFAIK, the Pope doesn't take it literally, but I imagine there are fundamentalist sects that do.

antiskeptic

RichieO wrote: »

I contend such a place does not exist in reality, you contend it does, I do not need to prove a fiction, but you do need to prove what you consider to be a fact…

Good God! (in the atheist sense of the phrase)

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

I am a Catholic. Who cares what the PRESENT pope thinks?

He speaks with a forked tongue.

Avatar MIA

qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »

I am a Catholic. Who cares what the PRESENT pope thinks?

Catholics?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Avatar MIA wrote:

Catholics?

Reread my edited post.