Leo is the new king of Ireland.

Phoebas

joey1111 wrote: »

Leo is going to invite Trump to Ireland, do the people of Ireland get a say in this?

Are you suggesting we should have a referendum on the matter?

Jawgap

joey1111 wrote: »

Leo is going to invite Trump to Ireland, do the people of Ireland get a say in this?

Yes, they voted into power the people to make decisions like this - it's called a republic for a reason.

Anyway, let Trump come - so we can have a decent protest

joey1111

Phoebas wrote: »

Are you suggesting we should have a referendum on the matter?

Oh come now, would it take a referendum for you to realise that nobody wants him in their country?

joey1111

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, they voted into power the people to make decisions like this - it's called a republic for a reason.

Anyway, let Trump come - so we can have a decent protest

haha, do you think the same thing about all the decisions that are made on our behalf?

Wow lets do whatever because ''they voted into power the people to make decisions like this - it's called a republic for a reason.''

But your other comment '' let Trump come - so we can have a decent protest'' will be the outcome.

Jawgap

joey1111 wrote: »

haha, do you think the same thing about all the decisions that are made on our behalf?

Wow lets do whatever because ''they voted into power the people to make decisions like this - it's called a republic for a reason.''

But your other comment '' let Trump come - so we can have a decent protest'' will be the outcome.

What do you suggest then - a referendum on every decision that's even mildly controversial?

I mean, something like the Estimates or the budget will have a much greater impact on our lives than whether the Ranchero-coloured one arrives to grace these shores - do you think we should have referendum on that? Maybe numerous referendums on each budget to pass each element?

......and what's wrong with legally protesting the decisions of our elected reps?

Personally, I'd love for Varadkar to invite him then watch as the coward refuses to travel because he's scared of a few uppity Paddies

Idbatterim

all this bull**** about Varadkar asking Trump the "hard questions" is this serious, from a country of less than 5 million, that cant even get its **** together. Appalling transport, infrastructure, housing crisis, health crisis... and and and! Frankly its embarrassing!

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

Firstly thanks for taking the time to reply.

While I disagree with some of what you said in other paragraphs (and also agree with some), this one makes least sense to me and certainly doesn't justify your criticism of others voting habits.

You are saying that if I or any voter sees Leo as best (of a bad lot), that it's not ok to vote for him? Meaning that we will be voting for someone we think is worse if we take your advice.

Anyway you didn't really answer my question of who you think is better and why. There are only a handful of party leaders on the ballot paper, and I'm certainly not one of them, and neither are you as far as I'm aware. And we need to vote for someone on the ballot paper, not some unknown. We need to make a choice, however crap that choice is.

So the only logical thing is to vote for who you see as best IMO. And IMO you haven't put forward a convincing argument to do otherwise, despite the numerous flaws with the current government

It's a rabbit hole.
Let's say I choose Fianna Fail; you then go on to criticise FF which in no way makes Leo any better and distracts from the myriad reasons not to vote for him or his party.
I did answer. I have and would vote for whom ever is on the ballot not FG or FF and be more likely to give a nod to people I either don't know much about or have hope for.
This robs one of the opportunity to do a 'whatabout' I know and that may be frustrating but it's about FG not being worthy of a vote and any genuine reasons good people have for voting for them, being a case of well meaning folks being conned, again.

Of course vote for who you see as best. Just don't vote for proven crony inept people because you think others might be worse.
Ironically, such scaremongering comes from FF and FG parties and supporters which is sad and laughable.

Idbatterim

I would love if the constituents in Leo's area, simply refused to vote for him and turfed him out, probably the easiest way to bring about change, seeing as politicians do all that they can to maintain the status quo!

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

I would love if the constituents in Leo's area, simply refused to vote for him and turfed him out, probably the easiest way to bring about change, seeing as politicians do all that they can to maintain the status quo!

Leo loves the tax payer funding the FG spin and talking loud while saying nothing, he's perfect for Fine Gael. A bland bring nothing to the table, don't rock the party boat, do nothing.
Like in Kenny's time, once their own were back borrowing and making money it was job done. The rest is just placating folks enough to slip back in to government.
There's no move or interest in improving the way we do business for the tax payer.
You would think people genuinely interested in politics would aspire to improve rather than do just enough. I guess that's the price of having to keep backers happy.

Idbatterim

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Leo loves the tax payer funding the FG spin and talking loud while saying nothing, he's perfect for Fine Gael. A bland bring nothing to the table, don't rock the party boat, do nothing.
Like in Kenny's time, once their own were back borrowing and making money it was job done. The rest is just placating folks enough to slip back in to government.
There's no move or interest in improving the way we do business for the tax payer.
You would think people genuinely interested in politics would aspire to improve rather than do just enough. I guess that's the price of having to keep backers happy.

Nail on the head! I just looked at dublin west, it is a 4 seat constituency...

Party Candidate % 1st Pref Count 1 Count 2 Count 3 Count 4 Count 5
Fine Gael Leo Varadkar 19.7 8,247 8,328 9,021
AAA–PBP Ruth Coppinger 15.5 6,520 6,626 6,690 7,011 8,548
Fianna Fáil Jack Chambers 16.5 6,917 7,148 7,236 7,330 8,315
Labour Party Joan Burton 15.4 6,445 6,508 6,668 6,769 8,009
Sinn Féin Paul Donnelly 14.4 6,034 6,073 6,093 6,188 7,091

Electorate: 64,639 Valid: 41,952 Spoilt: 320 (0.8%) Quota: 8,391 Turnout: 64,959 (65.4%)

I wonder if an anti government campaign could be run in that area, come next election time. So that Leo wouldnt be voted in! Imagine the constituents, many whom hate or dislike Varadkar, that power. many who dont probably vote. But probably would, if it was spun the right way! Nearly one third of people did not vote, fairly safe to say, that those who didnt vote, would probably lean left, if everyone was forced to vote...

Podge_irl

Idbatterim wrote: »

I would love if the constituents in Leo's area, simply refused to vote for him and turfed him out, probably the easiest way to bring about change, seeing as politicians do all that they can to maintain the status quo!

They are more than welcome to if they want to. Maybe they just have a better opinion of him than you do.

Idbatterim

Podge_irl wrote: »

They are more than welcome to if they want to. Maybe they just have a better opinion of him than you do.

no, because they are not thinking about it, the way I would present it to them! Here is what many that dont vote think "why bother voting" it wont change anything! They are all the same, yada yada yada. I actually think FG are the best of an appalling lot of the bigger parties. My point is, everyone is majorly frustrated at the way the country is run. Simply turfing the Taoiseach out, when it comes to election time, would be the one very simple change, that could massively change how things here are done and it is an actual viable and credible plan, it doesnt require marches, demonstrations, nothing, simply a stroll down to the local polling station!

We live in a bloody country where not even one party formed during the bust or since, that could give us a new viable option, other than the joke combo of FF / FG!!! so my hopes of that option, appear to be out the window!

Actually to hell with the Leo voters, you probably wont change most of their minds, they are probably part of the property owning, "Im alright Jack" brigade! Or the other fools that think Leo represents them "the man that gets up early" taking half their income over a joke level, while house prices race ahead massively of meager salary increases. the other 35% of voters who didnt vote, can put him to bed!

christy c

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's a rabbit hole.
Let's say I choose Fianna Fail; you then go on to criticise FF which in no way makes Leo any better and distracts from the myriad reasons not to vote for him or his party.
I did answer. I have and would vote for whom ever is on the ballot not FG or FF and be more likely to give a nod to people I either don't know much about or have hope for.
This robs one of the opportunity to do a 'whatabout' I know and that may be frustrating but it's about FG not being worthy of a vote and any genuine reasons good people have for voting for them, being a case of well meaning folks being conned, again.

Of course vote for who you see as best. Just don't vote for proven crony inept people because you think others might be worse.
Ironically, such scaremongering comes from FF and FG parties and supporters which is sad and laughable.

You could get a job in Leo's spin unit with that answer. I asked you which leader you think is better and why, and did not get an answer. Given that we only have a handful of party leaders I thought it would be easy for you.

As I said I vote for who I see as best of a bad lot, not because I think others might be worse (not sure why you felt the need to invent that).

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

You could get a job in Leo's spin unit with that answer. I asked you who you think is better and why, and did not get an answer. Given that we only have a handful of party leaders I thought it would be easy for you.

As I said I vote for who I see as best of a bad lot, not because I think others might be worse (not sure why you felt the need to invent that).

'Better' at what?

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Better' at what?

Could you make an educated guess?

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

Nail on the head! I just looked at dublin west, it is a 4 seat constituency...

Party Candidate % 1st Pref Count 1 Count 2 Count 3 Count 4 Count 5
Fine Gael Leo Varadkar 19.7 8,247 8,328 9,021
AAA–PBP Ruth Coppinger 15.5 6,520 6,626 6,690 7,011 8,548
Fianna Fáil Jack Chambers 16.5 6,917 7,148 7,236 7,330 8,315
Labour Party Joan Burton 15.4 6,445 6,508 6,668 6,769 8,009
Sinn Féin Paul Donnelly 14.4 6,034 6,073 6,093 6,188 7,091

Electorate: 64,639 Valid: 41,952 Spoilt: 320 (0.8%) Quota: 8,391 Turnout: 64,959 (65.4%)

I wonder if an anti government campaign could be run in that area, come next election time. So that Leo wouldnt be voted in! Imagine the constituents, many whom hate or dislike Varadkar, that power. many who dont probably vote. But probably would, if it was spun the right way! Nearly one third of people did not vote, fairly safe to say, that those who didnt vote, would probably lean left, if everyone was forced to vote...

That post is a fantasy.

There is every chance that Leo will top the poll in Dublin West next time out.

I would expect him to get over 20% of the vote in first preferences, ensuring he is elected on the first count.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Could you make an educated guess?

Better at party leadership or better at being a Taoiseach?

I said at the time that any party could introduce a package of austerity to put the country back on it's feet.

What I was looking for was a leader that would do it fairly and without making those who generally suffered most from the collapse suffer even more in the recovery.

Needless to say, FG didn't deliver that even though they may have delivered an area restricted recovery.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Better at party leadership or better at being a Taoiseach?

I said at the time that any party could introduce a package of austerity to put the country back on it's feet.

What I was looking for was a leader that would do it fairly and without making those who generally suffered most from the collapse suffer even more in the recovery.

Needless to say, FG didn't deliver that even though they may have delivered an area restricted recovery.

Better at Taoiseach.

Any party could have introduced austerity, but how many would? Anti Austerity Alliance? Other "tax the rich parties"?

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Better at Taoiseach.

Any party could have introduced austerity, but how many would? Anti Austerity Alliance? Other "tax the rich parties"?

Put it this way, all of them would have the onus of balancing the books.

Some would do it in a fairer way than others.

And correct, some might not and drive the country into the ground as was done several times, by the parties that have swapped power since independence.

Idbatterim

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Put it this way, all of them would have the onus of balancing the books.

Some would do it in a fairer way than others.

And correct, some might not and drive the country into the ground as was done several times, by the parties that have swapped power since independence.

"Fair" that is a matter of perspective and opinion!

LoughNeagh2017

I think I won't renew my Irish passport when it runs out in a couple years and take a British one, Varadker doesn't represent me or my history, I'm not referring to his Indian heritage, I feel the same in regards to Kenny and Martin. This island is a very complex land, I believe we Catholics in Ulster are a nationality of our own, an island of 3 nations. I hear Varadker is prancing about America, where is my representative? Last time I checked Ireland the country doesn't own St.Patricks day, it is Ulsters too. It fills me with bitterness, a bitterness as old as the hills.

jm08

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I think I won't renew my Irish passport when it runs out in a couple years and take a British one, Varadker doesn't represent me or my history, I'm not referring to his Indian heritage, I feel the same in regards to Kenny and Martin. This island is a very complex land, I believe we Catholics in Ulster are a nationality of our own, an island of 3 nations. I hear Varadker is prancing about America, where is my representative? Last time I checked Ireland the country doesn't own St.Patricks day, it is Ulsters too. It fills me with bitterness, a bitterness as old as the hills.

Karen Bradley is over there as well as Mary Lo, Michelle, Gerry Adams, Colum Eastwood, Ian Paisley Junior and Nigel Dodds. Don't know where Arlene is.

FrancieBrady

Has Leo admitted that he made political representations to get a wind farm planning application refused on behalf of Donald Trump?

:o

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Better at party leadership or better at being a Taoiseach?

I said at the time that any party could introduce a package of austerity to put the country back on it's feet.

What I was looking for was a leader that would do it fairly and without making those who generally suffered most from the collapse suffer even more in the recovery.

Needless to say, FG didn't deliver that even though they may have delivered an area restricted recovery.

Who are the people who lost most from the crash? Those who lost their jobs.

FG's record on employment is the creation of thousands and thousands of jobs. Springboard and other programmes created the opportunity to retrain so those who wanted to help themselves got helped by the government.

This area restricted recovery is nonsense. There is a growing urbanisation trend worldwide. Only the last believers in De Valera's Ireland dancing at the crossroads think we can escape that urbanisation. Factor it into Ireland's recovery and it has been as fair as possible.


Others lost out in the crash. Bondholders saw the value of their bonds plummet, shareholders in the large banks saw their shares wiped out and property owners saw their property drop in value. All were wealthier than the ordinary guy renting a room and holding down a job.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has Leo admitted that he made political representations to get a wind farm planning application refused on behalf of Donald Trump?

:o

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/974342848505147392?s=21

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/974342848505147392?s=21

Feeling all chuffed and warm that Donald thought he pulled a stroke for him, may be enough of a mask slip to damage Leo.

It was cringe audio.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Put it this way, all of them would have the onus of balancing the books.

Some would do it in a fairer way than others.

And correct, some might not and drive the country into the ground as was done several times, by the parties that have swapped power since independence.

Some didn't want to balance the books, some proposed taking on more debt to fund current expenditure.

Have you seen anything to suggest that they might not drive the country in to the ground?

By the way I'm not saying this as a FG or Leo fan. Best of a bad lot is not a compliment. And I think if we continue on the path we're on that we're in for trouble (narrowing tax base, increasing spending). Just that if any of the others get in and do as they promise, that this trouble would come sooner rather than later.

I might vote for Renua, they had no candidate in my constituency last time so didn't look in to them too much. Bit if some fiscally sane party was to emerge, they'd get my vote

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has Leo admitted that he made political representations to get a wind farm planning application refused on behalf of Donald Trump?

:o

He has form in sticking his nose in to planning, didn't he also object to an apartment development in his constituency?

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

He has form in sticking his nose in to planning, didn't he also object to an apartment development in his constituency?

There will be a lot of journos sticking their noses in places tonight I would imagine.

Idbatterim

christy c wrote: »

Some didn't want to balance the books, some proposed taking on more debt to fund current expenditure.

Have you seen anything to suggest that they might not drive the country in to the ground?

By the way I'm not saying this as a FG or Leo fan. Best of a bad lot is not a compliment. And I think if we continue on the path we're on that we're in for trouble (narrowing tax base, increasing spending). Just that if any of the others get in and do as they promise, that this trouble would come sooner rather than later.

I might vote for Renua, they had no candidate in my constituency last time so didn't look in to them too much. Bit if some fiscally sane party was to emerge, they'd get my vote

100% agree with this, I wont be giving FG even a second preference. Defeats the purpose. The renua candidate will get my vote. they wont change, unless they think they will lose votes...