Leo is the new king of Ireland.

ancapailldorcha

smurgen wrote: »

Your protesting speaks volumes.varadkar has done reputational damage to ireland as it stands in front of the world's media.lets see how much of a weasel he us behind closed doors.

No more name calling please.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I still don't see what all the fuss is about.

I think it is a very minor affair. Even if it is big in some people's eyes, what seems to have happened is like this:

Trump thinks Varadkar did him a favour, and probably feels he owes one in return. There is no evidence that Varadkar did do anything to favour Trump. Looks like Varadkar gained something for Ireland.

Not going to criticise him for that, now if someone wants to discuss the failure of his government to adequately promote alternative energy, I am available for that, but it seems most people are only interested in superficial political appearances rather than real politics.

Varadkar disagrees with you. He certainly made a call to someone and is willing to accept the credit. It's actually more embarrassing if he did nothing but thinks he did and is willing to accept credit. Maybe he's 'taking the piss' (great talk from the political leader of the country. That would garner it's own thread if the party were different, am I right?).
Any road, it goes back to it not being an issue for you yet you seem intent on dismissing it, again and again. If folks don't mind him being a suck up looking for a pat on the head that's fine but we should really respect that others do. If people think bypassing the process the taxpayer needs follow to do a billionaire a solid is a thing, then it's a thing. It's not the biggest thing in the world for sure but it's certainly an issue needs to be called out as 'inappropriate behavior'. Saying other things are worse may be true but like the homeless crisis, pointing that out doesn't make it less so.
But it doesn't stop there;

Leo Varadkar passed a request from Donald Trump’s hotel for state assistance in meeting a €1m storm-damage bill to a fellow minister, weeks after Trump had asked him to intervene in a local planning dispute.

On March 25, 2014, Varadkar passed on the request for financial aid even though only public infrastructure was eligible to avail of the state’s €69.5m storm-repair fund.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/varadkar-acted-for-trump-s-doonbeg-hotel-and-golf-resort-jd7m2ztbp

Now FG aren't shy about assisting private concerns to the detriment of the tax payer but this is cringe worthy.
The man is next level Kenny embarrassing.

McMurphy

Leo's SCU will do well to survive this week according to the media this morning.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Varadkar disagrees with you. He certainly made a call to someone and is willing to accept the credit. It's actually more embarrassing if he did nothing but thinks he did and is willing to accept credit. Maybe he's 'taking the piss' (great talk from the political leader of the country. That would garner it's own thread if the party were different, am I right?).
Any road, it goes back to it not being an issue for you yet you seem intent on dismissing it, again and again. If folks don't mind him being a suck up looking for a pat on the head that's fine but we should really respect that others do. If people think bypassing the process the taxpayer needs follow to do a billionaire a solid is a thing, then it's a thing. It's not the biggest thing in the world for sure but it's certainly an issue needs to be called out as 'inappropriate behavior'. Saying other things are worse may be true but like the homeless crisis, pointing that out doesn't make it less so.
But it doesn't stop there;



Now FG aren't shy about assisting private concerns to the detriment of the tax payer but this is cringe worthy.
The man is next level Kenny embarrassing.

And why wouldn't he claim credit? Collecting brownie points from world leaders while not having to do anything is a smart move.

As for passing on the correspondence, that is SOP in government offices when a letter is received and meant for another Minister. Would you have expected him to know the inner workings of every scheme in every Department as to whether the request would qualify for assistance? The level of grasping on this non-issue is astonishing.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

And why wouldn't he claim credit? Collecting brownie points from world leaders while not having to do anything is a smart move.

In private may be.

But in front of an on looking world audience, to boast about something that could be viewed as corruption = stupid.

Seen to be lying about what he actually did = liar.

Preventing green renewable energy sources while singing from an environmentally friendly hymn sheet = hypocrite.

Not having the foresight nor wit to figure any of the above out = dumb.

Wrong on more than one level.

Leo can't come away from it looking good no matter what.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

In private may be.

But in front of an on looking world audience, to boast about something that could be viewed as corruption = stupid.

Seen to be lying about what he actually did = liar.

Preventing green renewable energy sources while singing from an environmentally friendly hymn sheet = hypocrite.

Not having the foresight nor wit to figure any of the above out = dumb.

Wrong on more than one level.

Leo can't come away from it looking good no matter what.

I really think you are making a mountain out of nothing.

Don't see it making any headlines today.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

I really think you are making a mountain out of nothing.

Don't see it making any headlines today.

That remains to be seen, it might take somewhat of a temporary back seat now that FF and SF are teaming up - and it looks like a motion will be passed to scrap the SCU.

Stephen Donnelly spoke very well on Newstalk a short while ago about how it was a danger to democracy, and why FF are supporting the motion.

Leo is increasingly looking like the Emperor in his new clothes.

smurgen

Ireland's data commissioner going to come up for fresh scruitny in the coming months due to Facebook's data breach.no plans to do another investigation of their data.ireland is just so pro business right now.a great place to do business.our politicians just make issues dissapear.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

And why wouldn't he claim credit? Collecting brownie points from world leaders while not having to do anything is a smart move.

As for passing on the correspondence, that is SOP in government offices when a letter is received and meant for another Minister. Would you have expected him to know the inner workings of every scheme in every Department as to whether the request would qualify for assistance? The level of grasping on this non-issue is astonishing.

Trump was a billionaire reality television personality in 2014.
That's twice now you've made that err.

We know Varadkar called somebody on behalf of Trump to push for relocation of wind turbines. Now that's as per Varadkar and Trump.

We know Varadkar passed on a request from Trumps Hotel people requesting allocation of tax monies, set aside for public infrastructure.

Maybe Leo didn't know what the money was really for? Not credible.
Is the suggestion the government, with no magic money tree mind, is believed, by it's own ministers, to have pots of money sitting about? Or maybe it's in a big cookie jar marked 'storm money' and Leo knew it was for storm damage but not the finer points?
Getting back to a government minister on his second favour, at possibly great environmental and financial cost to the Irish tax payer, for a then billionaire reality television star.
At a time when (still) we are crying out for funding and solutions to a myriad crises, a minister is trying to help a billionaire get our tax money to repair his hotel? Disgusting.
And this is a nothing story? Pull the other one, it's got a fraudulent faux college degree on it.

Can you still say you are not defending Varadkar and it's a non story? Your post saps away even any inference of credibility.

jm08

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We know Varadkar passed on a request from Trumps Hotel people requesting allocation of tax monies, set aside for public infrastructure.

Maybe Leo didn't know what the money was really for? Not credible.
Is the suggestion the government, with no magic money tree mind, is believed, by it's own ministers, to have pots of money sitting about? Or maybe it's in a big cookie jar marked 'storm money' and Leo knew it was for storm damage but not the finer points?
Getting back to a government minister on his second favour, at possibly great environmental and financial cost to the Irish tax payer, for a then billionaire reality television star.
At a time when (still) we are crying out for funding and solutions to a myriad crises, a minister is trying to help a billionaire get our tax money to repair his hotel? Disgusting.
And this is a nothing story? Pull the other one, it's got a fraudulent faux college degree on it.

Can you still say you are not defending Varadkar and it's a non story? Your post saps away even any inference of credibility.

The Manager of Doonbeg wrote to Varadkar looking for help and got this reply from his Private Secretary. Since that is behind a paywall, here is the relevant info on the response from Varadkar.

“The minister has asked me to thank you for contacting him on this serious issue,” the letter said. “However, as this matter comes under the direct responsibility for the minister for the environment, community and local government, Phil Hogan TD, I have forwarded your correspondence to him for consideration.”


Last week a spokesman for Hogan’s former department, now called the Department of Housing and Local Government, said it did not make any funding available to Doonbeg hotel and golf resort.

“The funding programmes put in place by the various departments were for the repair of public infrastructure only,” it said. “Damage and losses to private property were not eligible for funding under these arrangements and are a matter for the individual property owners and their insurers, if applicable.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/varadkar-acted-for-trump-s-doonbeg-hotel-and-golf-resort-jd7m2ztbp

James Brown

jm08 wrote: »

The Manager of Doonbeg wrote to Varadkar looking for help and got this reply from his Private Secretary. Since that is behind a paywall, here is the relevant info on the response from Varadkar.




https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/varadkar-acted-for-trump-s-doonbeg-hotel-and-golf-resort-jd7m2ztbp

So he knew it was allocated for public infrastructure when he passed it on. Do we have a copy of the transcript to Phil Hogan?
It still stands.
How many requests did he forward to ministers regarding the concerns or requests of Irish tax paying citizens? If he's looking after the concerns of a foreign billionaire, it's no wonder Trump's hotel people felt they could get on to Leo. At a time when many real public crises where, and remain, in crisis.

These Fine Gael people are far too concerned with foreign business concerns over and above the concerns of Irish people. That's 'taking the piss'.

We may see the SCU go, at another great waste of tax payer money.

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

The Manager of Doonbeg wrote to Varadkar looking for help and got this reply from his Private Secretary. Since that is behind a paywall, here is the relevant info on the response from Varadkar.




https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/varadkar-acted-for-trump-s-doonbeg-hotel-and-golf-resort-jd7m2ztbp

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So he knew it was allocated for public infrastructure when he passed it on. Do we have a copy of the transcript to Phil Hogan?
It still stands.
How many requests did he forward to ministers regarding the concerns or requests of Irish tax paying citizens? If he's looking after the concerns of a foreign billionaire, it's no wonder Trump's hotel people felt they could get on to Leo. At a time when many real public crises where, and remain, in crisis.

These Fine Gael people are far too concerned with foreign business concerns over and above the concerns of Irish people. That's 'taking the piss'.

We may see the SCU go, at another great waste of tax payer money.

That is a bog standard response. Ministers' offices probably send about 200 of those every day of the week.

It is laughable that the Sunday Times went with that article.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

That is a bog standard response. Ministers' offices probably send about 200 of those every day of the week.

It is laughable that the Sunday Times went with that article.

You see Varadkar had put in a call on Trump's behalf and later passed on a request from his hotel people to a fellow minister, despite knowing the funds being sought were allocated for public infrastructure.
The bog standard letter means naught either way. The letter isn't the issue.

Where other countries try wrestle with foreign policy, our lad is only interested in being liked.

Now with the SCU in peril, how many massive wastes of tax payer money are with at now, not including Leo's failed attempt at giving Trump a dig out?

jm08

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So he knew it was allocated for public infrastructure when he passed it on. Do we have a copy of the transcript to Phil Hogan?

According to the Sunday Times the request from the manager of Doonbeg was to review the legislation. Leo's private secretary wrote back to say that it wasn't his Dept. that is dealing with it and that he would forward the relevant documentation onto the correct Dept.

It still stands.

The criticism doesn't stand. That is the correct way that correspondence should be dealt with. Since this came out under a FOI request, I'm sure if there was a transcript to Phil Hogan's Dept. the Sunday Times would have published it so you can take it that it was simply forwarded onto the correct Dept. which didn't give Doonbeg any money.

How many requests did he forward to ministers regarding the concerns or requests of Irish tax paying citizens? If he's looking after the concerns of a foreign billionaire, it's no wonder Trump's hotel people felt they could get on to Leo. At a time when many real public crises where, and remain, in crisis.

These Fine Gael people are far too concerned with foreign business concerns over and above the concerns of Irish people. That's 'taking the piss'.

Nothing wrong with people looking for help. Since they didn't get it, I don't know what your gripe is.

Phoebas

jm08 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with people looking for help. Since they didn't get it, I don't know what your gripe is.

It's clear evidence that Varadkar is in Trump's pocket, but in an effort to cover this up, they concocted a plot for Trump to apply for some funding that would be refused.

Or something...

James Brown

jm08 wrote: »

According to the Sunday Times the request from the manager of Doonbeg was to review the legislation. Leo's private secretary wrote back to say that it wasn't his Dept. that is dealing with it and that he would forward the relevant documentation onto the correct Dept.


The criticism doesn't stand. That is the correct way that correspondence should be dealt with. Since this came out under a FOI request, I'm sure if there was a transcript to Phil Hogan's Dept. the Sunday Times would have published it so you can take it that it was simply forwarded onto the correct Dept. which didn't give Doonbeg any money.



Nothing wrong with people looking for help. Since they didn't get it, I don't know what your gripe is.

Varadkar tried to do a favour for Trump, maybe it helped, maybe it didn't. Later, he passed on a request for tax monies on behalf of Trump's hotel knowing the money was not allocated for private concerns.
My gripe is it's inappropriate behaviour in my view.
This is not some local tax payer, and even if it was, it's national level parish pump politics. It's unbecoming of a government minister to try aid, to the cost of the tax payer, a foreign billionaire, IMO.
I'm not asking for his head, however the rush to dismiss it as nothing needed answering. There's no conspiracy theory. Fine Gael folk pulling strokes, or attempting to, on behalf of private concerns, needs no such mechanism as it is common place.

Phoebas wrote: »

It's clear evidence that Varadkar is in Trump's pocket, but in an effort to cover this up, they concocted a plot for Trump to apply for some funding that would be refused.

Or something...

I wouldn't go that far. I think you're reaching. Guilty of wanting a pat on the head and looking like a lick arse on the international stage, sure.

Idbatterim

surely our planning departments and ABP are so professional, that this wouldnt make a difference? The same people that allowed building on flood planes, fully support urban sprawl, allow endless one off housing, those great group of lads...

Podge_irl

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Later, he passed on a request for tax monies on behalf of Trump's hotel knowing the money was not allocated for private concerns.

"Varadkar's department forwarded an email incorrectly sent to them to the correct department" is the actual description of what happened.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Varadkar tried to do a favour for Trump, maybe it helped, maybe it didn't.

Did he? I know Trump thinks he did and Varadkar didn't disabuse him, but there is zero evidence that Varadkar tried to a do a favour for Trump.

Weak accusation.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Later, he passed on a request for tax monies on behalf of Trump's hotel knowing the money was not allocated for private concerns.

Did he? A letter was sent by someone to Varadkar, and he passed it on to the correct Department without comment. Standard operating procedure for the civil service.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

My gripe is it's inappropriate behaviour in my view.

What was inappropriate behaviour, and why? Should Varadkar be rude and ignore every letter that comes in to his Department?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

This is not some local tax payer, and even if it was, it's national level parish pump politics. It's unbecoming of a government minister to try aid, to the cost of the tax payer, a foreign billionaire, IMO.
I'm not asking for his head, however the rush to dismiss it as nothing needed answering. .

Dismiss what exactly? Passing a letter on to the correct Department? Failing to tell Trump he didn't actually do him a favour?

From what we have seen in the public domain, there really is nothing to this.

How exactly was the taxpayer going to lose out? That is an interesting angle, that all this ball of nothing was at the cost of the taxpayer.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

There's no conspiracy theory. .

There is no theory setting out what was wrong about it.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Fine Gael folk pulling strokes, or attempting to, on behalf of private concerns, needs no such mechanism as it is common place.
.

Commonplace? Give me three examples from the last week? Last fortnight?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Did he? I know Trump thinks he did and Varadkar didn't disabuse him, but there is zero evidence that Varadkar tried to a do a favour for Trump.

Varadkar said he did.
This is hilarious.

Weak accusation.

Did he? A letter was sent by someone to Varadkar, and he passed it on to the correct Department without comment. Standard operating procedure for the civil service.

You worded it differently and explained why you believe it was done. There's a minister passing on a letter and responding to the sender, he attempted to do a solid for previously, and theres, simply putting it back in internal post marked 'for Phil'.

What was inappropriate behaviour, and why? Should Varadkar be rude and ignore every letter that comes in to his Department?

A minister acting on behalf of a foreign businessman. A minister trying to colour an internal Irish issue on behalf of a foreign business man. Inappropriate.

Dismiss what exactly? Passing a letter on to the correct Department? Failing to tell Trump he didn't actually do him a favour?

Dismiss Leo making a call for Trump to attempt to sway an environmental matter in Trump's favour. Passing on the letter seeking tax monies allocated elsewhere, after supposedly informing Trump's people it wasn't to be.

From what we have seen in the public domain, there really is nothing to this.

You are at great pains to persuade others of this. I disagree. It' shows the back door nod wink nature we need gone from planning and the like.

How exactly was the taxpayer going to lose out? That is an interesting angle, that all this ball of nothing was at the cost of the taxpayer.

Was there a cost associated with where the wind turbines went? If tax monies allocated to public infrastructure was passed to a private concern?

Commonplace? Give me three examples from the last week? Last fortnight?

No. Are you alleging if it didn't happen in the last fortnight is doesn't count? Does that go for the troubles?

recedite

Clare Co Co being disingenuous about the phone call.

Clare County Council last night said there was no record of a representation being made by Mr Varadkar on the planning file for the wind farm. The council said it was “very unusual” to seek a brief over the phone in relation to a planning matter.
Council officials, from the current and former chief executive down to senior planners and planning officials, were contacted about the matter and none said they received a call from Mr Varadkar.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/varadkar-interfered-in-planning-says-wind-farm-developer-1.3428904
They haven't actually said categorically that there was no phone call. Only that phone calls are unusual.

They said there was "no record" of a representation. But surely that's the point of an off-the-record phone call? If a politician wants to make a submission he can pay the 20 euro like anyone else and send a letter/e-mail, which will appear on the planning record.

Its common knowledge that politicians very frequently make representations to planners outside the official on-the-record planning submission process.

We only have Leo's word that he made the phone call, and Leo's word that he didn't make it.
People will make up their own mind which Leo they believe.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No. Are you alleging if it didn't happen in the last fortnight is doesn't count? Does that go for the troubles?

So it isn't commonplace, as I thought.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Was there a cost associated with where the wind turbines went? If tax monies allocated to public infrastructure was passed to a private concern?

Can you explain this more fully? It reads like complete nonsense to me, that maybe my failure to understand the point you are making, but why would the location of a private wind farm incur a cost to the state?

Arguably, if is was positioned close to a profitable hotel paying corporate tax, which went into a loss, the cost to the State would arise from that and therefore the save the taxpayer approach would be to back Trump. Do you see this?

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Was there a cost associated with where the wind turbines went? If tax monies allocated to public infrastructure was passed to a private concern?

Can you explain this more fully? It reads like complete nonsense to me, that maybe my failure to understand the point you are making, but why would the location of a private wind farm incur a cost to the state?

Arguably, if is was positioned close to a profitable hotel paying corporate tax, which went into a loss, the cost to the State would arise from that and therefore the save the taxpayer approach would be to back Trump. Do you see this?

If you think that the economic cost of putting a wind turbine 4 miles from a hotel outweighed the economic benefit of putting one there then i think you do not understand any of the issues at hand.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

If you think that the economic cost of putting a wind turbine 4 miles from a hotel outweighed the economic benefit of putting one there then i think you do not understand any of the issues at hand.

We are not talking about economic cost.

Matt Barrett made a point that Varadkar's intervention (if it actually happened) and the resultant refusal of planning permission would result in a cost to the taxpayer. I am wondering what cost to the taxpayer is he talking about.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Can you explain this more fully? It reads like complete nonsense to me, that maybe my failure to understand the point you are making, but why would the location of a private wind farm incur a cost to the state?

Arguably, if is was positioned close to a profitable hotel paying corporate tax, which went into a loss, the cost to the State would arise from that and therefore the save the taxpayer approach would be to back Trump. Do you see this?

Mr Trump objected to the construction of a nine-turbine wind farm proposed by Clare Coastal Wind Power.

Mr Varadkar, who was minister for tourism at the time, said he approached the local authority after Mr Trump had phoned him directly.

With the US president looking on, Mr Varadkar told Speaker Paul Ryan's lunch event that upon taking the call he contacted the local county council and "endeavoured to do what I could do about it".

The planning permission was later declined, he added.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0316/947852-varadkar-trump-wind-farm/

He later backtracked and said he contacted Failte Ireland. Don't call the man a liar.

Varadkar interfered in due process on behalf of a foreign billionaire.
I'll explain the possible ramifications for you;
State bodies make decisions based on whats best for both the tax payer and issue at hand, (yes I know that's laughable, but it's the supposed intent).
A minister, acting like a parish pump local Councillor putting in a word in an effort to skew any decision in the favour of a foreign billionaire, is not putting the Irish tax payer first. It is contravening the process designed to put the tax payer first. This is basic stuff. At this point I can only take it you are happy to fudge this in an effort to defend Varadkar. As you have been doing all along.
Now, are regards cost; when decisions are made or contemplated in regards of public expenditure, value for money is taken into account, (again, laughable with FF/FG, but on paper anyway). Specific to wind turbines and placement, location would play a major role. This would have been researched and the cost tallied. It was looking like they had just the spot in mind. Varadkar may or may not have played a role in it not coming to fruition, but his nod, wink doing a solid, brand of back door politics should have no place. That's the issue. Putting a favour for a foreign billionaire above the tax payer.

Podge_irl

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Now, are regards cost; when decisions are made or contemplated in regards of public expenditure, value for money is taken into account, (again, laughable with FF/FG, but on paper anyway). Specific to wind turbines and placement, location would play a major role. This would have been researched and the cost tallied. It was looking like they had just the spot in mind. Varadkar may or may not have played a role in it not coming to fruition, but his nod, wink doing a solid, brand of back door politics should have no place. That's the issue. Putting a favour for a foreign billionaire above the tax payer.

The wind farm was a purely private business endeavour no?

James Brown

recedite wrote: »

Clare Co Co being disingenuous about the phone call.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/varadkar-interfered-in-planning-says-wind-farm-developer-1.3428904
They haven't actually said categorically that there was no phone call. Only that phone calls are unusual.

They said there was "no record" of a representation. But surely that's the point of an off-the-record phone call? If a politician wants to make a submission he can pay the 20 euro like anyone else and send a letter/e-mail, which will appear on the planning record.

Its common knowledge that politicians very frequently make representations to planners outside the official on-the-record planning submission process.

We only have Leo's word that he made the phone call, and Leo's word that he didn't make it.
People will make up their own mind which Leo they believe.

He claims he made a call on behalf of Trump in both versions. Kenny all over again. Meet the new boss indeed.

James Brown

Podge_irl wrote: »

The wind farm was a purely private business endeavour no?

Since when did anything get done without private companies? Is there a state wind turbine tax payer owned company, next door to the ESB and Telecom Eireann?

Private or not, he interfered on behalf of a foreign billionaire. It's inappropriate behavior and by bypassing protocol, not putting the tax payers interest first.

McMurphy

Podge_irl wrote: »

The wind farm was a purely private business endeavour no?

Indeed, and the fact Leo claims he interfered in due process to ensure one didn't go ahead because a billionaire asked for help to prevent it might well discourage others from wanting to invest here too.

Also, Leo doing stuff in private. ^

Leo saying stuff in public.

Leo Varadkar wrote:

Climate change is one of the greatest challenges we face. It is an issue for all countries and we need to work to ensure that electric vehicles become commonplace in Ireland, supporting cycling, producing more renewable energy such as wind and solar, and encouraging homes and businesses to invest in renewable heat.

Rightfully called out on his hypocrisy by Eamon Ryan.