Leo is the new king of Ireland.

McMurphy

The results are in ref the SCU.




Govt loses vote on disbandment of Strategic Communications Unit

James Brown

Speaking of...

Government ‘paid for good news stories’ over Ireland 2040 plan
Concerns have been raised about an “ethically dubious deal” between the government and national newspapers that involves journalists writing positive pieces about the Ireland 2040 plan.

It is understood a number of journalists at Independent News and Media were asked to write positive news pieces which could not include negative...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a1226310-180d-11e8-9d2e-0477b9927049

Your tax dollars at work. I recall the heady days of 'no magic money tree' 'where would we get the money for [insert crisis issue]?' and so on.
Can we acknowledge that if FG want money for a project they can find it?
True to FF/FG form, once the big boys were looked after it would be on to a vanity project while the little people, the tax payers, continue to take it on the chin. The SCU is Leo's vanity project.
Varadkar needs to do the decent thing and apologise to the tax payer.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The results are in ref the SCU.




Govt loses vote on disbandment of Strategic Communications Unit

And the effect of that vote is?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

And the effect of that vote is?

I think it pressures a review. Might save the tax payer money. Good news, no?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think it pressures a review. Might save the tax payer money. Good news, no?

Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of the SCU?

I would like to read it, please.

Edward M

blanch152 wrote: »

Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of the SCU?

I would like to read it, please.

Would that be the cost benefit to FG, or the taxpayer in general you would like to see?
It does rather seem to be very cost beneficial to FG and the present govt!

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

And the effect of that vote is?

Did you not read the link provided?

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Did you not read the link provided?

From reading the link, it seems that the vote has no meaning or purpose at all, other than a publicity stunt. Just another waste of Dail time when important legislation could have been debated.

The Government had already decided on a review, the review will take place and the government will then make its mind up on the outcome. The vote in the Dail has no meaning either way it went.

Am I missing something?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of the SCU?

I would like to read it, please.

No. However if FG stopped spending our money on their PR that would save us, no?
I can't tell, are you pro SCU and it's use of our money to promote a party you defend tooth and nail but don't vote for?

blanch152 wrote: »

From reading the link, it seems that the vote has no meaning or purpose at all, other than a publicity stunt. Just another waste of Dail time when important legislation could have been debated.

The Government had already decided on a review, the review will take place and the government will then make its mind up on the outcome. The vote in the Dail has no meaning either way it went.

Am I missing something?

So another non story you take the time to let folk know about? I would suggest FG needed their hand forced.
It seems only FG related non stories are a waste of time. What about tweets from senators, they a waste when more important things etc. etc.?

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think it pressures a review. Might save the tax payer money. Good news, no?

Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of the SCU?

I would like to read it, please.

Don't know the exact figures but i'm sure you could assign all of the costs to the tax payers and all of the benefits to FG

FreudianSlippers

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think it pressures a review. Might save the tax payer money. Good news, no?

Not only would it be a drop it in the bucket, but they would be just reassigned. Don't be daft.

blanch152 wrote: »

Have you done a cost/benefit analysis of the SCU?

I would like to read it, please.

No, they haven't, but let's be frank here - a pro-government propaganda machine is not what the SCU should be. Clearly we need an Irish government version of the SCU. I doubt we'd disagree that those members should be nominated by merit and reflect all members of the Dail.

The SCU needs to exist in modern society... you're right, but they shouldn't be beholden to or sucking up to any ruling party. Objectivity should be the purpose - otherwise... USELESS.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No. However if FG stopped spending our money on their PR that would save us, no?
I can't tell, are you pro SCU and it's use of our money to promote a party you defend tooth and nail but don't vote for?

So another non story you take the time to let folk know about? I would suggest FG needed their hand forced.
It seems only FG related non stories are a waste of time. What about tweets from senators, they a waste when more important things etc. etc.?

I don't think this is an accurate reflection of the situation tbh.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

From reading the link, it seems that the vote has no meaning or purpose at all, other than a publicity stunt. Just another waste of Dail time when important legislation could have been debated.

The purpose of the vote in my opinion was to draw publicity to a spin unit being used to promote Leo and his govt with advertorials clearly designed to look like real news stories promoting FG politicians, and featuring celebrities and economists who weren't even informed their words would be used in the ads by the government.

Did someone mention publicity stunts ^^

The Government had already decided on a review, the review will take place and the government will then make its mind up on the outcome. The vote in the Dail has no meaning either way it went.

The government had already decided to review itself? Not sure if you're serious tbh.

If Leo and his government decide to ignore every other party in the Dail (weren't you crowing on about this in another thread?) It shows his disregard for anyone and everyone who isn't Leo Varadkar and his government - way to go to rile people up Leo, arrogance in the past seen the last government get its marching orders.

So if Leo decides he's going to try and ignore the result of the vote, not only will he be displaying a level of arrogance that would bypass Kenny - he will basically he confirming that propaganda is more important to him than good governance.

I reckon it's toast - you reckon the vote will have no effect.

Let's see who ends up being correct shall we.

Am I missing something?

At a guess, I think the decision by PAC to write to Leo on foot of the vote result.

Leo's been having a bad few weeks.

I admire your defence of him through thick and thin though, especially for someone who votes green no1

recedite

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

..let's be frank here - a pro-government propaganda machine is not what the SCU should be. Clearly we need an Irish government version of the SCU.

Eh? The govt. is pro-govt, naturally.
Maybe you mean an Irish state version, but that would still be controlled by the govt, because they are appointed to govern the state.

McMurphy

recedite wrote: »

Eh? The govt. is pro-govt, naturally.
Maybe you mean an Irish state version, but that would still be controlled by the govt, because they are appointed to govern the state.

The govt shouldn't be using public money to promote its own election candidates - self promotion should me coming from fine gael coffers.

And then there's this.

According to the report, in recent months the SCU has written a parliamentary response for former tiste Frances Fitzgerald, trained civil servants, taken part in senior internal department meetings and overseen a national event in the Taoiseach's own constituency.

Further details.

The spin unit is weaving its way into the heart of Government, training civil servants, helping set up a new department, cajoling reluctant department bosses into cooperating and even taking over parliamentary duties. Emails also show the SCU helped oversee an event in the Taoiseach’s own constituency.

Documents show how the SCU is stretching its reach right into the nerve centre of departments and government decision-making, at very senior levels.

The unit, led by marketing guru John Concannon, was even asked to participate in the controversial public services card project amid the initiative receiving “an amount of public attention”.

All this feeds into opposition concerns and claims that the €5m unit has politicised elements of the civil service, blurring the lines between the elected and permanent government.

Good article about it in the Examiner

James Brown

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Not only would it be a drop it in the bucket, but they would be just reassigned. Don't be daft.

It's only money. Next time someone brings up some single mother as an example of why we've myriad crises, I'll quote the 'drop in a bucket'.

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

No, they haven't, but let's be frank here - a pro-government propaganda machine is not what the SCU should be. Clearly we need an Irish government version of the SCU. I doubt we'd disagree that those members should be nominated by merit and reflect all members of the Dail.

The SCU needs to exist in modern society... you're right, but they shouldn't be beholden to or sucking up to any ruling party. Objectivity should be the purpose - otherwise... USELESS.



I don't think this is an accurate reflection of the situation tbh.

If the press office were using rotary phones and windows 95 with one dial up modem between them, both you and Leo might have a point.

IMO, with the lackluster performance, sheen wearing off the law and order party and Kenny-esque gaffes, Leo wants a PR team and at our expense. Going further, to use it for FG PR is indefensible.
FG needed their hand forced on reviewing the SCU, with a view to scraping the latest tax payer waste by a party with seemingly nothing to do that can't wait, since the bond holders, banks and pals got back on track under Kenny's tenure.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The govt shouldn't be using public money to promote its own election candidates - self promotion should me coming from fine gael coffers.

And then there's this.



Further details.


Good article about it in the Examiner

The article is self-contradictory.

If the SCU, as appears to be alleged, is training civil servants, setting up websites and providing communications advice to civil servants, by definition it isn't operating as a mouthpiece for FG. Those are all things you would expect a civil service SCU to be doing.

Sometimes I wonder whether any journalist or commentator has ever had a real job.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The article is self-contradictory.

If the SCU, as appears to be alleged, is training civil servants, setting up websites and providing communications advice to civil servants, by definition it isn't operating as a mouthpiece for FG. Those are all things you would expect a civil service SCU to be doing.

Sometimes I wonder whether any journalist or commentator has ever had a real job.

It's not about a new and improved government press office or modernisation. It's about a new unit, funded by the tax payer providing spin for the Fine Gael party and election candidates. Are you okay with this? Surely even Fine Gael party members would have concerns? It's about inappropriate use of tax money. Governments are supposed to govern the country, aided by civil servants. 'Party first' isn't a reasonable excuse for squander.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

The article is self-contradictory.

If the SCU, as appears to be alleged, is training civil servants, setting up websites and providing communications advice to civil servants, by definition it isn't operating as a mouthpiece for FG. Those are all things you would expect a civil service SCU to be doing.

Sometimes I wonder whether any journalist or commentator has ever had a real job.

It is blurring the lines between the impartial civil service and government, and overstepping its remit.

It's all detailed in the article which if you read it, would make it quite clear.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's not about a new and improved government press office or modernisation. It's about a new unit, funded by the tax payer providing spin for the Fine Gael party and election candidates. Are you okay with this? Surely even Fine Gael party members would have concerns? It's about inappropriate use of tax money. Governments are supposed to govern the country, aided by civil servants. 'Party first' isn't a reasonable excuse for squander.

I get that you think the SCU is about spin for FG.

But when the Examiner reports that it is training civil servants, building websites etc. I don't understand how that is spin for FG.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

It is blurring the lines between the impartial civil service and government, and overstepping its remit.

It's all detailed in the article which if you read it, would make it quite clear.

What is its remit? You want its remit to be spinning for FG so you can abolish it. However, if its remit is to assist the civil service in promoting the work of the State and ensuring that ordinary citizens are aware of what the state is doing, then that isn't spin.

Nitrogan

In a world where foreign governments, like Russia but there are probably others, are spending huge amounts to sow dissent and spread misinformation in even apparently inconsequential countries like Ireland doesn't the government have a responsibility to invest in telling citizens what it is really doing?

There's a free press in Ireland ready to scrutinise every claim the government makes but look what happened in the US when they allowed heavily funded Alt-right propaganda to become an unchallenged narative of the Obama administration for some people.

Whether you think Leo Varadkar is the right person to be Taoiseach or whether you'd prefer a FF, Labour or any other non-extremist government, the current one has to protect the political space for everyone.

I think Leo's problem is that he's applying modern thinking to a country where too many of the fringe political opponents are still engaged in a war from the '70s.

James Brown

Nitrogan wrote: »

In a world where foreign governments, like Russia but there are probably others, are spending huge amounts to sow dissent and spread misinformation in even apparently inconsequential countries like Ireland doesn't the government have a responsibility to invest in telling citizens what it is really doing?

How on earth do you equate Putin operatives hacking and manipulating information with a jazzed up press Department?
You're twisting here; yes the government should be telling us what they are doing but beyond party political broadcasts for their own selfish gain.

Nitrogan wrote: »

There's a free press in Ireland ready to scrutinise every claim the government makes but look what happened in the US when they allowed heavily funded Alt-right propaganda to become an unchallenged narative of the Obama administration for some people.

This is bizarre conservative Fine Gael apologist drivel.

Nitrogan wrote: »

Whether you think Leo Varadkar is the right person to be Taoiseach or whether you'd prefer a FF, Labour or any other non-extremist government, the current one has to protect the political space for everyone.

Completely agree. Leo is a nothing on the grand scale of things. It's about the people and fairness.

Nitrogan wrote: »

I think Leo's problem is that he's applying modern thinking to a country where too many of the fringe political opponents are still engaged in a war from the '70s.

What nonsense. I recall Bertie using the same argument for E-Voting machines. Your argument for tax funded pro FG spin is some claim the fellas in the press room would be using note pads and pencils if not for the SCU? :rolleyes:

Nitrogan

What's an e-voting machine?

James Brown

Nitrogan wrote: »

What's an e-voting machine?

That explains your view a little.

Bertie Ahern was the then finance minister who kept his money in a paper bag in his wardrobe and held no bank account. His finances centered on friends giving him a dig out and betting on the horses, should the tax man ask.
Later, when Taoiseach, he pushed for the introduction of e-voting machines. Machines where one could vote electronically. They were rife with security/software problems.

Former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was such a fan of electronic voting he told the Dail in 2007 that by not adopting the new technology "this country will move into the 21st Century being a laughing stock with our stupid aul' pencils".

But who's laughing now? Thirteen years later, at a cost to the taxpayer of €54m, the e-voting experiment finally ended yesterday with all of the 7,500 machines being sold for scrap.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/paul-melia-were-back-to-those-stupid-aul-pencils-as-saga-ends-26870503.html

So shiny and new isn't always better.
Your argument that the SCU is merely moderising the government PR arm, wouldn't be a bad thing if true.
Using tax payer money to fund public announcements promoting Fine Gael candidates is inappropriate behaviour.

Nitrogan

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That explains your view a little.

Bertie Ahern was the then finance minister who kept his money in a paper bag in his wardrobe and held no bank account. His finances centered on friends giving him a dig out and betting on the horses, should the tax man ask.
Later, when Taoiseach, he pushed for the introduction of e-voting machines. Machines where one could vote electronically. They were rife with security/software problems.



So shiny and new isn't always better.
Your argument that the SCU is merely moderising the government PR arm, wouldn't be a bad thing if true.
Using tax payer money to fund public announcements promoting Fine Gael candidates is inappropriate behaviour.

Maybe if the software was updated the machines would be useful now?

FrancieBrady

The parody of Leo is more or less set now: imagecentric, not really engaged with anything and a bit of a gaff machine.

They locked Enda away from the public for less.

SomethingElse

Nitrogan wrote: »

Maybe if the software was updated the machines would be useful now?

They only had two buttons though - one marked "FF" and the other "Spoiled Vote"

Nitrogan

SomethingElse wrote: »

They only had two buttons though - one marked "FF" and the other "Spoiled Vote"

Sounds like there was a beast mode cheat for ultras too.

James Brown

I might become a Green voter. I like the cut of this man''s jib....

Taoiseach accused of standing for political status quo
Green Party leader Eamon Ryan has claimed Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is leading a party which protects the interests of the well-to-do and big business.

He said the Taoiseach has a 1990s world view where the market knows best and Government should have a minimal role in shaping our future.

In his keynote speech to delegates this evening, Mr Ryan will say that the Taoiseach stands for the status quo in Irish politics and Fine Gael represents the interests of the well-to-do and big business.

He also said he was mortified last week when the Taoiseach praised US President Donald Trump for copying Ireland’s low corporation tax regime and said Ireland should do more to retain more tax from multinationals.

Mr Ryan will criticise the Taoiseach’s record on tackling climate change and claim he has not lived up to his promise to make the issue a priority.

He said the Greens in government would devise a land use plan for the entire country, invest in urban renewal, and create a Wild Atlantic Way national park.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0324/949781-green-party-conference/

Nice to see Ryan call Varadkar out. Exactly what myself and many others have been saying. Well done Greens.

McMurphy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I might become a Green voter. I like the cut of this man''s jib....



Nice to see Ryan call Varadkar out. Exactly what myself and many others have been saying. Well done Greens.

Eamon talking sense.

I mean, what was he thinking bragging about being at the beck and call b of a foreign billionaire businessman, and endeavouring to do all he could do in preventing a new, green, renewable energy company from setting itself up?

Lest we forget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2IWmyFhjOE

smurgen

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

recedite wrote: »

Eh? The govt. is pro-govt, naturally.
Maybe you mean an Irish state version, but that would still be controlled by the govt, because they are appointed to govern the state.

The govt shouldn't be using public money to promote its own election candidates - self promotion should me coming from fine gael coffers.

And then there's this.

According to the report, in recent months the SCU has written a parliamentary response for former tiste Frances Fitzgerald, trained civil servants, taken part in senior internal department meetings and overseen a national event in the Taoiseach's own constituency.

Further details.

The spin unit is weaving its way into the heart of Government, training civil servants, helping set up a new department, cajoling reluctant department bosses into cooperating and even taking over parliamentary duties. Emails also show the SCU helped oversee an event in the Taoiseach’s own constituency.

Documents show how the SCU is stretching its reach right into the nerve centre of departments and government decision-making, at very senior levels.

The unit, led by marketing guru John Concannon, was even asked to participate in the controversial public services card project amid the initiative receiving “an amount of public attention”.

All this feeds into opposition concerns and claims that the €5m unit has politicised elements of the civil service, blurring the lines between the elected and permanent government.

Good article about it in the Examiner

It's like Fine Gael's very own Communications Clinic.