Leo is the new king of Ireland.

JCX BXC

blanch152 wrote: »

That sense of entitlement doesn't exist elsewhere.

I would disagree with that point, but you're right with the rest, out expectations are higher than most countries and we go further to meeting them.

What we also have here is an expectation to be housed in your preferred area, be it Dalkey or Doonbeg.

James Brown

I expect to be able to rent a roof for my head if I'm working. I expect the taxpayer to subsidise my living if I find myself sick or out of work.

JCX BXC

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I expect to be able to rent a roof for my head if I'm working. I expect the taxpayer to subsidise my living if I find myself sick or out of work.

What sort of roof? An apartment, or one that covers a semi-4bed?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I expect to be able to rent a roof for my head if I'm working. I expect the taxpayer to subsidise my living if I find myself sick or out of work.

Would a bedsit with shared bathroom and kitchen facilities be adequate?

That is the type of place I lived in when I started work.

James Brown

JCX BXC wrote: »

What sort of roof? An apartment, or one that covers a semi-4bed?

One were I don't need a tax handout. I don't believe you can claim rent allowance for much above what's needed as deemed so by welfare, unless Varadkar really dropped the ball.

Edward M

We have FF, FG, Lab, and SF, these are our governing choices, the ones who will be in govt after the next foreseeable elections.
Choice of which brings us forward isn't great, we have all their histories and knowledge of what the could or are capable of.
SF, are the only one untried in govt here, as an alternative and looking for something different, you'd have to say they are the ones to turn to if you want an alternative.
But then you look across the border, and you quickly realise they are sitting on their arses up there while all their services worsen.
Housing isn't great up there either.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42063177

Wanderer78

Edward M wrote:

We have FF, FG, Lab, and SF, these are our governing choices, the ones who will be in govt after the next foreseeable elections. Choice of which brings us forward isn't great, we have all their histories and knowledge of what the could or are capable of. SF, are the only one untried in govt here, as an alternative and looking for something different, you'd have to say they are the ones to turn to if you want an alternative. But then you look across the border, and you quickly realise they are sitting on their arses up there while all their services worsen. Housing isn't great up there either.

I think we re actually in a lot of trouble regarding this, I suspect very little will actually change in Irish politics for the foreseeable future due to this lack of alternatives, I suspect it ll actually take some major external force or forces to start implementing changes

Idbatterim

There is an alternative. Go onto the renua page. Oh man. The propaganda attack they can and I hope do launch on fg if executed properly, is mind blowing! They are going to need a few hundred k for marketing...

James Brown

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I think we re actually in a lot of trouble regarding this, I suspect very little will actually change in Irish politics for the foreseeable future due to this lack of alternatives, I suspect it ll actually take some major external force or forces to start implementing changes

I held high hopes the last crash would bring in a sea change. I was never much of a FG supporter, but I got behind them believing after such a disaster all the political chicanery would be put aside, at least for a time. Despite what upholders of the status quo might say now, if there are any, not saying anyone on here is, there was a real will for change. The public were prepared for hard times and hard measures. There was a window to overhaul health, the civil service but that window closed, helped along by Reilly's clinic allocations, Irish Water board appointments, sweet deals and a reluctance to treat our own tax paying people in the same favourable manner we seem to treat foreign corporates, vulture funds and the very banks that crippled us due to lackluster regulation, both self and state. So we just got the hard times and all crises are worse now and breaking records, while the 'economy' seemingly flourishes. If ever there was a sign something is very wrong...
Now we've divisive politics where all the country's ills can be visted upon sections of society and not bad policy, coupled with schoolyard japes and dismissive government, propped up by Fianna Fail, because Fianna Fail are seemingly more suitable and reliable to keep the country stable as a governing partner. I believe it's more a case of keeping the slick two tiered system safe, which is why FG and FF rely on each other so. A genuine third viable option would upset the fix that is in a long time.
So of course everyone else is stupid or the bogeyman or 'de left'.

So I'm not sure any external or home grown force is big enough to oust FF/FG, who sadly, had every opportunity to 'change the way we do business' but chose not to.

Options? I'll vote for literally anyone but FF/FG. If we're doomed to best of a bad bunch, it's preferable to banging your head against a brick wall by voting FF/FG, IMO. I think there is a lot to be said for getting any party in, just once. Regardless of how good or bad they do, it will throw the current regime for a loop and might put manners on them for a time. Maybe Putin will give us a dig out

BonnieSituation

Idbatterim wrote: »

There is an alternative. Go onto the renua page. Oh man. The propaganda attack they can and I hope do launch on fg if executed properly, is mind blowing! They are going to need a few hundred k for marketing...

Their six pillars are as I've said before, interesting:

RENUA wrote:

B: Protecting the 8th Amendment
Key Points:

Renua Ireland believes that the 8th Amendment is one of the most progressive clauses ever introduced into the constitution of any country anywhere in the world. The 8th Amendment enshrines into law the most fundamental right of all – the right to life. Regardless of sex, disability or economic status, the 8 amendment recognises all as equally deserving of a right to life.

Get up the yard. It's the most regressive sham of an article.

Also this gem...

C: Opposition to Euthanasia
Key Points:

It is clear that the next target for ‘progressives’ in Ireland, after their campaign to introduce abortion on demand, will be the legalisation of euthanasia. Euthanasia is a deeply disturbing policy already lawful in many EU countries. It is a policy which tells the sick, the elderly, the suffering that their lives are no longer worth living.

Such a clear "next target". Obviously they'll go on a rampage next making DNR illegal...

E: Pro-Family Welfare System
Key Points:

Grandparents play a vital role in the nurturing and care of their grandchildren. It is a role ignored by other political parties who are entirely focused on subsidising professional childcare facilities.
Renua believes that the Children’s Allowance payment is a vital weapon against childhood poverty.
Renua Will:

Introduce a monthly children’s allowance payment of €25 per child (aged 0-14) payable to grandparents who act as primary carers to their grandchildren while their parents are at work.
Increase the Children’s Allowance payment from €140 per month to €180 per month for 0-4 year olds where family income is less than €70,000 per annum.

Just what the wealthy and over considered elderly need... More cash.

---

Another gem under the "Local Democracy" pillar:

Renua wrote:

Bring back the ‘Green’ passport. In 2006 Ireland abandoned the green passport in favour of the common ‘burgundy’ passport of the EU. The introduction of the green passport in 1927 was an important symbol of our new-found independence. Re-introducing that passport now will be an important symbol of our independent policy direction within the EU.

Outside of the ridiculousness of this "policy" it was in 2006 that the biometric passports came in. Not when the green one was done away with.

I got my first passport in 1996; it was burgundy and had "European Community" on it. There hasn't been sight of a valid green passport in s long long time.

www.renuaireland.com

---

Renua also want to bring back the famous "An Bord Snip Nua".

I'm sure idbatterim, you'd realise what that would do for public transport provision?

Zubeneschamali

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Just what the wealthy and over considered elderly need... More cash.

You have to say Renua know their best target demographic - old codgers are the most socially conservative. Promise 'em 25 bucks a month, reliable voters 'til they die.

Not that that will be very long, but...

Idbatterim

Go watch their talk and you can see they are against raising other welfare payments. And rightly So...

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote:

Go watch their talk and you can see they are against raising other welfare payments. And rightly So...

Are they showing any interest in ideas such as ubi(universal basic income)?

James Brown

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Their six pillars are as I've said before, interesting:



Get up the yard. It's the most regressive sham of an article.

Also this gem...



Such a clear "next target". Obviously they'll go on a rampage next making DNR illegal...




Just what the wealthy and over considered elderly need... More cash.

---

Another gem under the "Local Democracy" pillar:

Once someone wheels out 'abortion on demand' I tune out. Getting heart surgery is 'on demand' ffs.
And what's with 'progressives'? It's another label maker for the soundbite over substance politician.
They really are chasing the bingo vote, circa 1950's.

BonnieSituation

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Once someone wheels out 'abortion on demand' I tune out. Getting heart surgery is 'on demand' ffs.
And what's with 'progressives'? It's another label maker for the soundbite over substance politician.
They really are chasing the bingo vote, circa 1950's.

I just can't believe that they're considered a relevance at all by anyone.

They also want to bring in mandatory minimum sentencing. I'm all for punishment fitting the crime etc. but removing ALL discretion from the judiciary is an assault on human rights and the constitution.

But again, I can find fault with almost all of their policies.

BonnieSituation

Idbatterim wrote: »

Go watch their talk and you can see they are against raising other welfare payments. And rightly So...

I read pillar 1.

Why introduce cash for old codgers then?

Seems hypocritical to me.

Zubeneschamali

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why introduce cash for old codgers then?

Just like the other parties- buy the votes of some particular demographic.

SF/PBP/AAA/SWP: everyone on Welfare
FG: People earning above the average wage
FF: Property developers, bookies
Labour: People earning more than the average wage who feel guilty about it.

James Brown

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Just like the other parties- buy the votes of some particular demographic.

SF/PBP/AAA/SWP: everyone on Welfare
FG: People earning above the average wage
FF: Property developers, bookies
Labour: People earning more than the average wage who feel guilty about it.

You're right, but I don't think those living the life on welfare, drinking cans as it were, vote. Unless we are including pensioners, who may be more FG/FF types.

I would say every party has an element of decent folk who genuinely want what's best for the country. Unfortunately it only takes a few me feiners to ruin it for everyone.
I would sumise that the majority of voters are floating, but on the more conservative side, with nods to the non-FF/FG parties.

It's the heels dug in no matter what grass roots that keep FF/FG ticking.

Idbatterim

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why introduce cash for old codgers then?

Just like the other parties- buy the votes of some particular demographic.

SF/PBP/AAA/SWP: everyone on Welfare
FG: People earning above the average wage
FF: Property developers, bookies
Labour: People earning more than the average wage who feel guilty about it.

Fg represent people earning above the average wage. That’s what they want you to think. What makes you think that? Because it’s what fg claim? 95% of all income tax is paid by those on over e30,000. They managed to morph into ff pretty quickly. For a party that claims they are pro business and enterprise. I’d suggest an insane marginal tax rate at a pittance of an income, would suggest otherwise!

Idbatterim

Also why bother going for the spend spend spend route? I’d imagine a party proposing pay cuts for politicians and tv license fee abolition would be a very popular move ...

Idbatterim

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

Go watch their talk and you can see they are against raising other welfare payments. And rightly So...

I read pillar 1.

Why introduce cash for old codgers then?

Seems hypocritical to me.

I don’t necessarily think it’s cynical. If they wanted that vote. Why not just whack up the oap across the board?

James Brown

The Social Democrats deserve a spin. I admire Shortall. She held FG to account, something Labour should have backed her on (if they looked at the long game instead of bums on seats).
An Independent anti-corruption agency to take over from never ending tribunals and inquiries, sounds interesting. Save us a few bob for sure.

VonZan

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The Social Democrats deserve a spin. I admire Shortall. She held FG to account, something Labour should have backed her on (if they looked at the long game instead of bums on seats).
An Independent anti-corruption agency to take over from never ending tribunals and inquiries, sounds interesting. Save us a few bob for sure.

The centre left have very little chance of governing in Ireland and when the opportunity arises it's only as a minority partner which inevitably will lead to further losses as you are enabling the implementation of center right manifestos. The Social Democrats will be competing with Labour in the next election. It's hard to see them take any seats when Labour have a much larger grassroots base than the SDs.

James Brown

VonZan wrote: »

The centre left have very little chance of governing in Ireland and when the opportunity arises it's only as a minority partner which inevitably will lead to further losses as you are enabling the implementation of center right manifestos. The Social Democrats will be competing with Labour in the next election. It's hard to see them take any seats when Labour have a much larger grassroots base than the SDs.

Fair point, but not a reason to opt for FG/FF.
I don't think Labour's grass roots are as fanatical as FF's or FG's, were it's always party over performance. Labour took a big hit and rightly so.
I would like to think the SD's have higher standards and more self respect than the likes of Labour, which Shortall certainly does any way. If they went in with FG or FF they might stand firm as a genuine 'keep in check' partner, which is all any up and coming party need do to put practically every other junior coalition party/Indie to shame.

Topgear on Dave

Soc Dems (while they seem honest and principled) will steer well clear of any involvement in government.

James Brown

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Soc Dems (while they seem honest and principled) will steer well clear of any involvement in government.

How do you mean? To what end?

For Forks Sake

Matt Barrett wrote: »

How do you mean? To what end?

Continued hurling from the ditch. God forbid they'd have to make difficult decisions.

Wanderer78

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Continued hurling from the ditch. God forbid they'd have to make difficult decisions.

i do think theres an element of newer and smaller parties simply cannot enter government due to the power play of the big two

Edward M

Due to how the smaller party usually fares after coalition, its easy to see why they'd want to shy away from it.
Even doing it honorably and for the right reasons smaller party's don't have enough base support to sustain them after a govt backlash election.

Kermit.de.frog

Fianna Fáil talking about the "utter incompetence" of the government in tomorrow's 'Times'.

There is brass necks and then there is Fianna Fáil. The people who bankrupted the country, started mass emigration of the youth and surrendered the country's financial sovereignty to the IMF.