Leo is the new king of Ireland.

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

If only there was some sort of unit for the government to communicate matters of strategic importance to the public.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't I suppose.

We want a press office sans spin at the tax payers expense.
Are you suggesting with the vanity project on the way out Varadkar is down to cups on a string? Someone should knock in to check hes alright so.

Colonel Claptrap

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We want a press office sans spin at the tax payers expense.
Are you suggesting with the vanity project on the way out Varadkar is down to cups on a string? Someone should knock in to check hes alright so.

I'd rather neither to be honest with you. Hopefully he's busy doing his job, running the country.

I miss the days when politicians didn't have Twitter accounts.

The growing trend to distil/dumb down (take your pick) complicated issues into witty sound bites is ruining politics imo.

Elections are won and lost on slogans nowadays. What happened to economic fundamentals?

Politicians across the spectrum are guilty of this. Posters here too, and I include myself in that.

Anyway, I digress.

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I'd rather neither to be honest with you. Hopefully he's busy doing his job, running the country.

I miss the days when politicians didn't have Twitter accounts.

The growing trend to distil/dumb down (take your pick) complicated issues into witty sound bites is ruining politics imo.

Elections are won and lost on slogans nowadays. What happened to economic fundamentals?

Politicians across the spectrum are guilty of this. Posters here too, and I include myself in that.

Anyway, I digress.

Sorry, but this isn't about twitter of facebook. It's about leadership of the country and governing.
You suggest he might be too busy doing his job, to do his job. Statements, actions, all part of his job. Waiting it out, while wily and safe, not so much.

I agree about slogans winning elections. It's unfortunate, we don't expect or get much follow through;

BonnieSituation

It's pretty easy to go and find election literature... Sure FF never broke any promises.

FF were such angels all the same...

James Brown

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's pretty easy to go and find election literature... Sure FF never broke any promises.

FF were such angels all the same...

They're good enough for 'watch as it gets worse' Fine Gael though.

McMurphy

^^

FF aren't currently in govt (Not officially anyway)

But what your post does, is confirm that the two partys are two cheeks of the same backside.

Edward M

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

^^

FF aren't currently in govt (Not officially anyway)

But what your post does, is confirm that the two partys are two cheeks of the same backside.

I always find that a funny analogy, I always wonder which party is the hole.

McMurphy

Edward M wrote: »

I always find that a funny analogy, I always wonder which party is the hole.

Junior party.

James Brown

Edward M wrote: »

I always find that a funny analogy, I always wonder which party is the hole.

'Between them' you lose all your tax money down one

Idbatterim

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tax-cuts-splurge-now-off-the-table-36785055.html

"Tax cuts splurge now off the table"

Bloody hell, when you thought waffleonadkar couldnt row back on things any more, you hear this!

EdgeCase

piplip87 wrote: »

Leos approval rating in a large part is down to his handling of Brexit. Irish people love sticking it to the Brits and DUP.

Who doesn't!?

That's part of the problem they're having on the continent too. All those decades of jingositic headlines didn't do much to build positive relationships. It's very easy to find that particular aspect of Tory, rule Britannia Little England culture a bit repugnant.

I'm finding it quite amusing that they're reminiscing about Enda as having been a nice, gentle sort compared to Leo and Simon.

I suspect that's more about the stage that brexit was at when Enda was in office. The relationship has radically changed since then. It's not just about the personalities. Enda or any Taoiseach would have to put their foot down.

Colonel Claptrap

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tax-cuts-splurge-now-off-the-table-36785055.html

"Tax cuts splurge now off the table"

Bloody hell, when you thought waffleonadkar couldnt row back on things any more, you hear this!

We have 1)full employment 2)wage inflation 3)rampant property market. Now comes the time to decide if we should cut taxes or take heat out of the economy.

I remember what a FF government did the last time we had this scenario.

What you call rowing back I call actively responding to the dynamics of the economy.

It doesn't win votes but it's the right thing to do.

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

We have 1)full employment 2)wage inflation 3)rampant property market. Now comes the time to decide if we should cut taxes or take heat out of the economy.

I remember what a FF government did the last time we had this scenario.

What you call rowing back I call actively responding to the dynamics of the economy.

It doesn't win votes but it's the right thing to do.

Are you aware of the crises in housing and health? The economy is becoming more and more of an irrelevancy in relation.

We need take the heat out of the housing market and turn an eye to health. Heavily tax anyone speculating in housing severely while the crisis continues.

I see Varadkar is terrible upset about things in Syria. Made a statement, and him with no SCU. Fair play.

Colonel Claptrap

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are you aware of the crises in housing and health? The economy is becoming more and more of an irrelevancy in relation.

We need take the heat out of the housing market and turn an eye to health. Heavily tax anyone speculating in housing severely while the crisis continues.

I see Varadkar is terrible upset about things in Syria. Made a statement, and him with no SCU. Fair play.

Impressive. I suggest not lowering income tax and you're straight in with irrelevant sound bites that have nothing to do with the article or what I said.

But if you insist on going there - Health, housing and property issues are all aided by maintaining income tax levels, not reducing them.

You even sequed Syria and SCU into your post for sh1ts and giggles.

What's that buzzword i keep hearing so much lately? That's right, style over substance Matt.

Idbatterim

In my post about taxation and the subsequent question. The ones being hammered to pay through the nose for everyone else. Ie those that pay the scandalous marginal rate is on that pittance of an income, should be rewarded. They can stick their across the board welfare increases and usual s**t!

As if we are all in this together. Because there are a lot of wasters out there getting a free ride in the back of hard working people and all of this is supported and encouraged by that gobsh**te that talks about work, reward and the early risers...

Idbatterim

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Impressive. I suggest not lowering income tax and you're straight in with irrelevant sound bites that have nothing to do with the article or what I said.

But if you insist on going there - Health, housing and property issues are all aided by maintaining income tax levels, not reducing them.

You even sequed Syria and SCU into your post for sh1ts and giggles.

What's that buzzword i keep hearing so much lately? That's right, style over substance Matt.

let them whack up property tax. Why should have nlybincone be taxed at outrageous levels here! They can start with property and use that to cut the marginal rate!

Edward M

Idbatterim wrote: »

In my post about taxation and the subsequent question. The ones being hammered to pay through the nose for everyone else. Ie those that pay the scandalous marginal rate is on that pittance of an income, should be rewarded. They can stick their across the board welfare increases and usual s**t!

As if we are all in this together. Because there are a lot of wasters out there getting a free ride in the back of hard working people and all of this is supported and encouraged by that gobsh**te that talks about work, reward and the early risers...

There are lots of opinions on what people are and should be entitled to, as long as it suits the narrative when they're not getting something, then when they get it, they're wasters.
Would all that include houses and medical cards?

Idbatterim

Edward M wrote: »

There are lots of opinions on what people are and should be entitled to, as long as it suits the narrative when they're not getting something, then when they get it, they're wasters.
Would all that include houses and medical cards?

you think someone with a medical card should pay nothing for gp visits. While a low income workers doesn’t go because he or she can’t afford the e60?! And yes it does include the houses they get for nothing. But I’m sure I’ll be “corrected” now, there is no such thing as “free housing”! LOL! It’s a matter of opinion. When you are given the money for free. It’s free housing by my book!

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Impressive. I suggest not lowering income tax and you're straight in with irrelevant sound bites that have nothing to do with the article or what I said.

But if you insist on going there - Health, housing and property issues are all aided by maintaining income tax levels, not reducing them.

You even sequed Syria and SCU into your post for sh1ts and giggles.

What's that buzzword i keep hearing so much lately? That's right, style over substance Matt.

I believe we were discussing the health/hospital bed scenario and Varadkar being quite on it, then you mentioned the loss of the SCU as some form of reasoning as to why.
So when Vardkar made a statement on Syria I felt it worth noting. The topic is not the point, it's that he managed to get out and be heard on something. Which goes back to him not bothering to comment on hospital trolleys/Health (or the Garda for that matter).

We need make property speculation very unattractive. And we need let the market look after itself until it cools. At present we are propping the heated housing market up with tax monies going to various concerns.

Edward M

Idbatterim wrote: »

you think someone with a medical card should pay nothing for gp visits. While a low income workers doesn’t go because he or she can’t afford the e60?!

How do you get over that?
Its the same in A&E I think, no doctor referral means a 100e payment unless you have a MC.
I agree with you BTW on some of it.
I don't know myself, but are there some cases where low income people get gp cards?
But its just if you're criticising for non provision of some things and giving out about the actual provision of others its hard to say why one is so wrong and the other is also so wrong?

Edward M

There were rumors of a possible warming of relations between FG and SF doing the rounds there lately, but thank god for some commentators on here, given their allegiances and biases, it seems Pascal and Leo have put it to bed, it'd have been a holy terror if some commentators had to think of perhaps softening to Leo.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/paschal-donohoe-says-sinn-fein-not-fit-for-government-837168.html

brabantje

Edward M wrote: »

There were rumors of a possible warming of relations between FG and SF doing the rounds there lately, but thank god for some commentators on here, given their allegiances and biases, it seems Pascal and Leo have put it to bed, it'd have been a holy terror if some commentators had to think of perhaps softening to Leo.

I think perhaps there is actually a warming of relations, particularly because of Brexit, where SF have in effect "subcontracted" the northern element of Brexit to the Irish Government. In addition to this, there has been a noticeable lack of Enda Kenny/Micheal Martin type "It's all very well you discussing potential garda corruption/drugs crime/banks but whatabout *insert random IRA atrocity here*..." attacks on SF in recent months from the FG front bench. There has also been a couple of instances where SF have carried govt bills in DÉ in the face of opposition from FF.

Whilst relations have thawed, yesterdays kite flying exercise highlights that there are still policy gaps between the two parties, but it also demonstrated a realisation from FG that:

1) they can't keep SF out of government forever
2) it may be better to have them in the tent looking out...
3) there will have to be a choice between formal coalition with FF or with SF

In short - SF have demonstrated they won't oppose govt policy for the sake of it, and FG *appear* to have done some sort of deal with SF as regards Brexit. Don't expect any public announcements, but from where I'm sitting FG-SF as the next government seems far more likely than FG-FF or FF-SF.

Podge_irl

brabantje wrote: »

Whilst relations have thawed, yesterdays kite flying exercise highlights that there are still policy gaps between the two parties, but it also demonstrated a realisation from FG that:

1) they can't keep SF out of government forever
2) it may be better to have them in the tent looking out...
3) there will have to be a choice between formal coalition with FF or with SF

In short - SF have demonstrated they won't oppose govt policy for the sake of it, and FG *appear* to have done some sort of deal with SF as regards Brexit. Don't expect any public announcements, but from where I'm sitting FG-SF as the next government seems far more likely than FG-FF or FF-SF.

SF are doing a pretty stellar job of keeping themselves out of government without anyone's help. They know full well what will happen to them if they enter a coalition as a minority partner and there is no way they are going to sign up to it.

brabantje

Podge_irl wrote: »

SF are doing a pretty stellar job of keeping themselves out of government without anyone's help. They know full well what will happen to them if they enter a coalition as a minority partner and there is no way they are going to sign up to it.

They've already "unruled out" being a minority party in government.

Idbatterim

You’d wonder though. Is it an opportunity for them now to come in, but mean business on health and housing in particular. No messing around from fg or they pull the plug? It’s an interesting one! Fg and ff are the same thing as good as. Either way. For all three major parties it’s going to be unpalatable decisions. A confidence and supply agreement won’t be tolerated again. Also if sf think the next recession might be a few years away. They may prefer to stay in opposition to capitalise...

brabantje

Idbatterim wrote: »

You’d wonder though. Is it an opportunity for them now to come in, but mean business on health and housing in particular. No messing around from fg or they pull the plug? It’s an interesting one! Fg and ff are the same thing as good as. Either way. For all three major parties it’s going to be unpalatable decisions. A confidence and supply agreement won’t be tolerated again. Also if sf think the next recession might be a few years away. They may prefer to stay in opposition to capitalise...

Not necessarily, I'd have thought. There's a lot of things that would sell it to FG - an unprecedented third straight term, relegating the "natural party of government" to the sidelines again; dealing with a party as opposed to the whims of a loose bunch of independents; no waiting for the confidence and supply arrangement to fail... and so on and so on.

On the negatives, there's no chance that SF would roll over and have their belly tickled in the way Labour did between 2011 and 2016. There's a certain charm in the idea of SF keeping FG "honest" and vice versa.

Anyway, I prefer to adopt the "jazz" politics approach to these things - it's not what they're saying - it's what they're *not* saying that's what's important here. IMHO.

Podge_irl

brabantje wrote: »

They've already "unruled out" being a minority party in government.

Until they "unrule it out" after an election while discussions about forming a government are happening (i.e. when it actually matters) I won't believe them. Still, I would argue the basic point still stands regardless, nobody has been keeping SF out of anything, they have not been attempting to get into government in the first place.

James Brown

There's always SF partnerships floated by someone or other. The press are always asking the bigger parties about it. I would suspect any political whispers are just testing the water.
The pathetic thing is, FG or FF using SF like a bogeyman. Wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole because of associations with the IRA. FG/FF track record aside, the troubles are over. If it's a policy issue, fair enough, but if FG can get into bed with FF, it's a bit rich.
Personally I don't care who's in as long as they do a bit of work for the tax payer and I don't mean tax cuts for me f everyone else, I mean value for money. The waste on stop gaps such as emergency accommodation needs to be phased out.

brabantje

Podge_irl wrote: »

Until they "unrule it out" after an election while discussions about forming a government are happening (i.e. when it actually matters) I won't believe them. Still, I would argue the basic point still stands regardless, nobody has been keeping SF out of anything, they have not been attempting to get into government in the first place.

Except Micheal Martin and, previously Enda Kenny and Joan Burton have all specifically and explicitly ruled out coalition with SF. Which to me, is *somebody* other than SF ruling it out.

James Brown

Fine Gael would rather welcome Fianna Fail back to power than risk Sinn Fein upsetting the civil war party see-saw monopoly. That's them cutting our nose to spite our face, especially when you look at the last crash and the anti-FF heavy propaganda Kenny's FG used to get in.