Leo is the new king of Ireland.

FreudianSlippers

Idbatterim wrote: »

I am sick of hearing about vulture funds, they are out to make money like you I and every one else! Its the bloody government failure here at every level!!! did the vulture funds make the decision to flog off loads of housing for nothing? for a start!

Here's the problem - we have a number of people who have not bothered their hoop to engage with banks and haven't paid their mortgage for months. If the banks could repossess these properties and cut their losses on the loan portfolio, they would do so. Unfortunately, our legal system unduly favours (at times... other times I would agree that the law is fair) the tenant in the property regardless of their behaviour.

There needs to be a balance between "let's not turf families out onto the street" and "let's let people take the absolute piss".

Vulture funds are simply buying non-performing (and sometimes performing) mortgages using foreign funds in a legal tax shelter. Yes, they are more aggressive on the non-performing loans but that's because the Irish banks are so inundated that they probably can't keep up pressure across their whole portfolio. If you loan is performing, the vulture fund doesn't change a single thing for your mortgage - in fact you might even get a slightly more beneficial ongoing rate.

Lads also this talk about recovery, yeah fair enough, things are going in the right direction in some ways. But everyone I know, is becoming worse off when you factor in rent or property price hikes in dublin. they are becoming more and more squeezed all the time...

Tax is too high and cost of living is too high. But we need to deal with non-performing mortgages to deal with this issue. We need foreign investment in building. We need higher density. We need better public transport.

Unfortunately, people moan about foreign investment, they engage in NIMBY-ism, they bitch and moan about Dublin getting any infrastructure investment.

The country is in a shambles and the people are partly to blame.

brabantje

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Here's the problem - we have a number of people who have not bothered their hoop to engage with banks and haven't paid their mortgage for months. If the banks could repossess these properties and cut their losses on the loan portfolio, they would do so. Unfortunately, our legal system unduly favours (at times... other times I would agree that the law is fair) the tenant in the property regardless of their behaviour.

There needs to be a balance between "let's not turf families out onto the street" and "let's let people take the absolute piss".

Vulture funds are simply buying non-performing (and sometimes performing) mortgages using foreign funds in a legal tax shelter. Yes, they are more aggressive on the non-performing loans but that's because the Irish banks are so inundated that they probably can't keep up pressure across their whole portfolio. If you loan is performing, the vulture fund doesn't change a single thing for your mortgage - in fact you might even get a slightly more beneficial ongoing rate.


Tax is too high and cost of living is too high. But we need to deal with non-performing mortgages to deal with this issue. We need foreign investment in building. We need higher density. We need better public transport.

Unfortunately, people moan about foreign investment, they engage in NIMBY-ism, they bitch and moan about Dublin getting any infrastructure investment.

The country is in a shambles and the people are partly to blame.

These indeed are problems. Particularly NIMBYism. Also archaic planning laws which prevent high rise development in Dublin.

Taking NIMBYism - on any given infrastructure project, our system allows for the slowing down to a crawl of important projects. Indeed, a whole industry has developed in the opposition of windfarms in general.

But staying Dublin for a moment - a perfect example of this is the proposed flood defence wall at Clontarf. DCC recently objected to this on the basis that drivers would have their view of the sea spoiled. Firstly - the drivers should be looking at the road in front of them rather than the sea, and secondly, a couple of decent sized storms and their may not be a road to drive on.

Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.

James Brown

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Yeah... that's not correct either.

So wait now, before we move goal posts, just to recap; the vulture funds are paying little tax, NAMA is bank rolling the very developers created a need for NAMA, and at more favourable rates than other financial institutions are willing to. I supplied links. Just to put a lid on there lest we revisit it.

The tax payer took the hit and paid the bills when developers went to the wall. Now the tax payer is bank rolling them. House prices aren't falling.
This is somehow more acceptable than any state consideration for people who cannot pay their mortgage and find themselves in arrears. This is why the faux recovery is top heavy. This is why we've the spin the poor are ruining it for the tax payer, the sick are going to A&E with a hang nail etc. This is why we have the highest level of personal debt in the EU and third highest out of 49 countries worldwide.

Why do the Irish still owe more than the Greeks?
And yet if this is so, then why does Ireland continue to carry a shocking level of debt per person, the highest in Europe and the third highest out of 49 countries worldwide?
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/why-do-the-irish-still-owe-more-than-the-greeks-1.3001026

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Here's the problem - we have a number of people who have not bothered their hoop to engage with banks and haven't paid their mortgage for months. If the banks could repossess these properties and cut their losses on the loan portfolio, they would do so. Unfortunately, our legal system unduly favours (at times... other times I would agree that the law is fair) the tenant in the property regardless of their behaviour.

There needs to be a balance between "let's not turf families out onto the street" and "let's let people take the absolute piss".

Vulture funds are simply buying non-performing (and sometimes performing) mortgages using foreign funds in a legal tax shelter. Yes, they are more aggressive on the non-performing loans but that's because the Irish banks are so inundated that they probably can't keep up pressure across their whole portfolio. If you loan is performing, the vulture fund doesn't change a single thing for your mortgage - in fact you might even get a slightly more beneficial ongoing rate.

....

Vulture funds are profiteering off our housing crisis and personal debt. it's all nice and legal, however it's not something either we or our state should be encouraging with low taxation.
This attitude of sink or swim, unless you're wealthy, in which case the tax payer will throw you a line will end badly, once again.
Of course we have people dodging bills, (but most developers were caught out) but we've also hard working people who fell on hard times. They are not to be dismissed or despised while we pat vulture funds on the back. We need government putting the people first, giving them a dig out, making a call to the tourism board on their behalf, having inappropriate meetings to do them a sweet deal, IMO.

All we need is fair play. The time for putting the private profits of the few above the broader public should have ended with the last official Fianna Fail government.

Colonel Claptrap

Matt - you have filled pages and pages with criticisms. Which is great. More power to you.

But we've yet to hear your proposals for alternatives. I invite you to detail them as colourfully and as eloquently as your criticisms.

So far you have given us: "All we need is fair play"

What would you change within the following departments? Please be as detailed as possible.

Dept of Public Expenditure and reform
Dept of Finance
Dept of Housing, planning and local Gov
Dept of Social Protection
Dublin City Council
NAMA
NTMA
RTB
Central bank

Pointing at immoral vulture funds, elites, corrupt ministers, tax codes, or 'banksters is great for whipping the masses into a frenzy. But it doesn't cut it with me unless you can offer a credible, evidence-based alternative.

Please change my mind.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

the third highest level of personal debt out of 49 EU countries.

You posted a link that I assume was supposed to back up this statement. Here it is again:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/why-do-the-irish-still-owe-more-than-the-greeks-1.3001026

However, that is not what it says. Instead, it says that we have the fourth highest level of personal debt in the EU, making us fourth out of 28, not third out of 49.

You also fail to take into account the same things a bank does when giving someone a mortgage. If you have income of €20,000 a year, you can't pay back a mortgage of €100,000, but if you have income of €100,000 a year, you can easily pay back a mortgage of €110,000.

That is why the debt to income ratio is particularly important. From your own link:

"the debt-to-GDP ratio, the typical metric to determine whether debt is sustainable – tracking, as it does, a country’s debt to its income – is also slumping, down to 77.9 per cent from a high of 125 per cent reached in June 2013, and is forecast to fall to 76 by year end."

"Not only that, but Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has set a new target of 45 per cent to be reached by the mid-2020s, far below the 60 per cent range set out by the European Union. In Greece, on the other hand, the debt-to-GDP ratio is of the order of 177 per cent, and after a period of reduction is forecast to escalate thereafter."

Unlike say, Greece, we have the ability to repay our debt. Simple economics.

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Matt - you have filled pages and pages with criticisms. Which is great. More power to you.

But we've yet to hear your proposals for alternatives. I invite you to detail them as colourfully and as eloquently as your criticisms.

So far you have given us: "All we need is fair play"

What would you change within the following departments? Please be as detailed as possible.

Dept of Public Expenditure and reform
Dept of Finance
Dept of Housing, planning and local Gov
Dept of Social Protection
Dublin City Council
NAMA
NTMA
RTB
Central bank

Pointing at immoral vulture funds, elites, corrupt ministers, tax codes, or 'banksters is great for whipping the masses into a frenzy. But it doesn't cut it with me unless you can offer a credible, evidence-based alternative.

Please change my mind.

More social housing. State owned and built homes rented to people based on income.

Funding;
Re-purpose Fine Gael's developer friendly €5.35 billion 'Social Housing' Strategy to make it a Social Housing strategy.

Re-purpose the developers friendly Bank NAMA and it's €70bn in loans at more favourable rates than other banks are willing to offer.

Now, vulture funds; I've covered this. they are profiteering off a national crisis. We should, over all, make any property speculation as unattractive as possible with increase taxation.

Now, you have changed tack and dropped out when I've responded to your previous requests with answers not to your liking, so I'll leave your list here.
Do you have any points, opinions, ideas on how we might do things better? or is record breaking child homelessness just something a growing economy in recovery breeds?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

More social housing. State owned and built homes rented to people based on income.

Funding;
Re-purpose Fine Gael's developer friendly €5.35 billion 'Social Housing' Strategy to make it a Social Housing strategy.

Re-purpose the developers friendly Bank NAMA and it's €70bn in loans at more favourable rates than other banks are willing to offer.

Now, vulture funds; I've covered this. they are profiteering off a national crisis. We should, over all, make any property speculation as unattractive as possible with increase taxation.

Now, you have changed tack and dropped out when I've responded to tyour previous requests with answers not to your liking, so I'll leave your list here.
Do you have any points, opinions, ideas on how we might do things better?

In what way would you re-purpose the Social Housing Strategy? Can you give examples of the measures you would drop from it and the ones you would replace?

As for the NAMA bit, am I reading you correctly that you want NAMA to lend to developers at a lower rate?

How does your taxation proposal (I would like details) fit in with the constitutional right to property i.e. the right not to do anything with it, and let it sit there because tax is too high?

Colonel Claptrap

Idbatterim wrote: »

Seems like a fall off in support for king serpent! https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/support-for-fine-gael-and-leo-varadkar-falls-in-latest-poll-1.3466059

If those numbers materialise in the next election there is scope for a FF, SF, Lab coalition with a 4 seat majority.

4 seats is slim but not unworkable.

Red_Wake

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

Seems like a fall off in support for king serpent!    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/support-for-fine-gael-and-leo-varadkar-falls-in-latest-poll-1.3466059

If those numbers materialise in the next election there is scope for a FF, SF, Lab coalition with a 4 seat majority.

4 seats is slim but not unworkable.

Tbf, it's not enough of a fall for FF to want an election. They'll want to be sure of crippling both FG and SF before pulling the plug.

McMurphy

Reports on newstalk this morning that the opposition may be focusing their attention on Leo, and putting pressure on him to get Denis Naughten to step down, or sack him.

When will ministers ever learn to stay clear of a certain high profile billionaire?

Yes, Naughten claimed he divulged information to a lobbyist in a 'personal opinion' capacity, weeks before he made the information public, but how would people feel if Paschal Donohoe started giving lobbyists personal information weeks before the budget?

Topgear on Dave

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

If those numbers materialise in the next election there is scope for a FF, SF, Lab coalition with a 4 seat majority.

4 seats is slim but not unworkable.

Assuming SF and Lab would want to go in?

It would take a lot of bravery.

Colonel Claptrap

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Assuming SF and Lab would want to go in?

It would take a lot of bravery.

From a FF point of view it's an easier sell and a great way to save face. Either prop up another crippled administration which can barely legislate, or capitalise on a booming economy and take all the glory with SF and Lab under their wing.

As you said, it would be difficult to get both parties on board. A LOT of concessions would be needed. SF and Lab could demand the crown jewels- a finance portfolio for SF and social protection for Lab with the poison chalice (health) left in FF's lap.

Colourful but doable.

Auguste Comte

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Reports on newstalk this morning that the opposition may be focusing their attention on Leo, and putting pressure on him to get Denis Naughten to step down, or sack him.

When will ministers ever learn to stay clear of a certain high profile billionaire?

Yes, Naughten claimed he divulged information to a lobbyist in a 'personal opinion' capacity, weeks before he made the information public, but how would people feel if Paschal Donohoe started giving lobbyists personal information weeks before the budget?

If Naughten keeps his job Leo is going to look more like the King Charles of Dinnyland rather than the new King of Ireland.

McMurphy

Auguste Comte wrote: »

If Naughten keeps his job Leo is going to look more like the King Charles of Dinnyland rather than the new King of Ireland.

This revelation comes barely a month after Taoiseach of the country said he endeavoured to do everything he could to solve a problem another billionaire businessman was facing.

Will be interesting to see how Leo handles it.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Reports on newstalk this morning that the opposition may be focusing their attention on Leo, and putting pressure on him to get Denis Naughten to step down, or sack him.

When will ministers ever learn to stay clear of a certain high profile billionaire?

Yes, Naughten claimed he divulged information to a lobbyist in a 'personal opinion' capacity, weeks before he made the information public, but how would people feel if Paschal Donohoe started giving lobbyists personal information weeks before the budget?

It is interesting that the opposition have chosen not to move directly against Naughten.

My guess is that they fear that would concede the high moral ground to FG as the election would be caused by FF voting no confidence in an Independent Alliance Minister so FG can then go to the country saying we tried to govern with independents, we tried to govern with FF outside the tent looking in, it didn't work, so give us more votes.

Hence the change of tack and going after Varadkar.

blanch152

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

If those numbers materialise in the next election there is scope for a FF, SF, Lab coalition with a 4 seat majority.

4 seats is slim but not unworkable.

I have been predicting this possibility for quite some time.

FF will desperately want to get back into the government as the good times start to roll again so they can create another mess. Their preferred option would be a reversal of the current position with FG supporting FF from outside. With FG staying above 30%, that seems unlikely. Remember opinion polls are a snapshot and trends rather than individual results are to be watched. The current trends are a general move away from independents and smaller parties, and FG consolidating above 30%.

If FG supporting them from outside is not an option, coalition with SF is the other option. Martin wouldn't favour that, but if FF are behind FG for the third election in a row, he is finished, so a new leader could make the choice. A smaller third party - Greens or Social Democrats or Labour - to balance out the distaste of being with SF could do the trick.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

I have been predicting this possibility for quite some time.

FF will desperately want to get back into the government as the good times start to roll again so they can create another mess. Their preferred option would be a reversal of the current position with FG supporting FF from outside. With FG staying above 30%, that seems unlikely. Remember opinion polls are a snapshot and trends rather than individual results are to be watched. The current trends are a general move away from independents and smaller parties, and FG consolidating above 30%.

If FG supporting them from outside is not an option, coalition with SF is the other option. Martin wouldn't favour that, but if FF are behind FG for the third election in a row, he is finished, so a new leader could make the choice. A smaller third party - Greens or Social Democrats or Labour - to balance out the distaste of being with SF could do the trick.

Not a great believer in opinion polls as I have said based on how inaccurate they have shown themselves to be. If as you say, they show a trend then isn`t that trend going away from FG since the start of this year in this is the second consequent poll from the Irish Times showing a drop in support for FG .

The nearer the general election comes Martin may not be the only party leader under pressure to do a deal with SF.
There appear to be some within FG also open to the idea, and it`s not as if there isn`t precedent.
FG attempted to make overtures in that direction in the not too distant past.

Colonel Claptrap

charlie14 wrote: »

The nearer the general election comes Martin may not be the only party leader under pressure to do a deal with SF.
There appear to be some within FG also open to the idea, and it`s not as if there isn`t precedent.
FG attempted to make overtures in that direction in the not too distant past.

To borrow an analogy from the thread title, Sinn Fein are kingmaker.

They have spent 7+ years spitting bile about FG. Their members have spent significant resources convincing people that FG are the cause of all of Ireland's problems.

SF's recent change of heart - showing willingness to be a junior coalition partner -always meant only one thing. SF want to put FF back in power.

brabantje

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

To borrow an analogy from the thread title, Sinn Fein are kingmaker.

They have spent 7+ years spitting bile about FG. Their members have spent significant resources convincing people that FG are the cause of all of Ireland's problems.

SF's recent change of heart - showing willingness to be a junior coalition partner -always meant only one thing. SF want to put FF back in power.

Disagree completely. The change of heart is more to do with "troublesome" personnel (in both parties) either moving off the stage or signalling their intent to do so. FF's recent shenanigans as regards Brexit (which they've acknowledged they got wrong by moving Stephen Donnelly away from it), and their constant will-they-won't-they stand in NI (they won't because they will be electorally massacred - and quite a few of SDLP bods would be more closely aligned politically with FG than FF) has won them no friends across the border. Which represents about 50% of SF's current support. Should SF side with FF without a fairly hefty change of tack from FF, it would be political suicide north of the border for them.

Currently, there appears to be at least a normal opposition party relationship with FG than with a party that consistently says SF are unfit for government.

James Brown

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

This revelation comes barely a month after Taoiseach of the country said he endeavoured to do everything he could to solve a problem another billionaire businessman was facing.

Will be interesting to see how Leo handles it.

Here's some BAI info:

The Compliance Committee members are:

Professor Kevin Rafter (Chairperson); Professor of Political Communication at Dublin City University;
Ms Paula Mullooly; Solicitor
Mr Nigel Heneghan; Managing director of Heneghan PR
Ms Eileen Maher; Communications consultant

This chap's company, works for the FG contractor of choice, and one of his lads has the ear of the Communications minister.

What could possibly go wrong?

The time has long since passed for this kind of questionable behaviour from any party. They all need to clean house or get a lot more clever about any crony behaviour.
I think someone must know where they buried the man with 2 pints.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

To borrow an analogy from the thread title, Sinn Fein are kingmaker.

They have spent 7+ years spitting bile about FG. Their members have spent significant resources convincing people that FG are the cause of all of Ireland's problems.

SF's recent change of heart - showing willingness to be a junior coalition partner -always meant only one thing. SF want to put FF back in power.

FG have done trojan work to put FF back in power. FF always have the grassroots, but FG dealing with them is sending a 'forgive and forget' message to the electorate. SF can't compete with that level of recommendation.

Colonel Claptrap

brabantje wrote: »

Currently, there appears to be at least a normal opposition party relationship with FG than with a party that consistently says SF are unfit for government.

I'm open to correction but I'm pretty sure every major party have said SF are unfit for government.

I think the premise of my earlier post will sit uneasily with a lot of SF grassroot members.

I predict a lot of cries of "sellout" when SF first enter government as a junior partner. Some people are happy to be perpetually in opposition. Look at alphabet soup.

Idbatterim

Ive never voted SF, but claiming an untested SF are unfit for government, coming from FG or FF is a bit rich. Awash with money again and housing, health, crime are a joke! A joke!

brabantje

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I'm open to correction but I'm pretty sure every major party have said SF are unfit for government.

I think the premise of my earlier post will sit uneasily with a lot of SF grassroot members.

I predict a lot of cries of "sellout" when SF first enter government as a junior partner. Some people are happy to be perpetually in opposition. Look at alphabet soup.

They have. But applying the jazz politics rule (it's not what they're saying, but what they're not) FG is busy at the minute prepping their membership with kite flying exercises for govt with SF. There's a lot going on in the background - especially in respect of Brexit, where SF have (to my eyes anyway) provided tacit support to FG and have in effect subcontracted the northern nationalist part of Brexit negotiations to FG.

And you can be sure that there will be cries of sellout from both disgruntled FG and disgruntled SF members/supporters when and if it does happen. (insert FF instead of FG if that happens instead).

Colonel Claptrap

A poll might be a good idea.

If you are a SF supporter would you rather FF or FG as senior coalition partner?

Idbatterim

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

A poll might be a good idea.

If you are a SF supporter would you rather FF or FG as senior coalition partner?

FF I would assume...

Zubeneschamali

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

If you are a SF supporter would you rather FF or FG as senior coalition partner?

Sinn Féin's destiny is to kill FF and take their place at FGs side, ruling the country as two cheeks of the same arse, the same way they killed the SDLP to join with the DUP to rule the 6 county colonial statelet to our North.

FF going into coalition with SF would be party suicide, they are too cute to fall for that one.

James Brown

It doesn't matter. If SF go in with either of them the responsibility and eyes will be on SF. Will SF out do Labour and hold them to account? It would be quiet amusing to see SF calling out crony dodgy deals of either partner considering the spin from them about SF not being fit.
FG/FF are in a great position. If either goes in with SF, SF will be held to a higher standard as we seem to have a 'boys will be boys' attitude towards FF/FG. So it'll be calling them out and a short run government, or pulling a Green/Labour and sitting on their hands to be lost in the wilderness come the following election.
Any FG talk of selling out because of a partnership with SF, is not credible or believable considering their association with FF, the most toxic of parties, IMO.

brabantje

Idbatterim wrote: »

FF I would assume...

I think you'd be very surprised. There's no particular grá for either, but the persistent attacks by martin in particular on SF, mean that most SF voters would prefer this current FG lineup. I think they've been quietly impressed with the handling of brexit so far. As evidenced by David Davies clueless outbursts.

Colonel Claptrap

I wonder how many of SF's central policies they'd be willing to soften/scrap in return for ministerial seats. Coalition requires compromise.

The FF/FG confidence and supply agreement depended on the "no surprises" clause.

Are SF squeeky clean? Have they any skeletons left to come out of the closest? What about bullying?

SF stepping up to the plate and governing would be admirable. I'd love to see them prove me and FF/FG wrong that they are not fit.

Are they ready?

Colonel Claptrap

brabantje wrote: »

I think you'd be very surprised. There's no particular grá for either, but the persistent attacks by martin in particular on SF, mean that most SF voters would prefer this current FG lineup. I think they've been quietly impressed with the handling of brexit so far. As evidenced by David Davies clueless outbursts.

I would assume any SF/FF coalition would be with Martin NOT at the helm.

I heard whispers of O'Cuiv coming back into the fold. Could he lead such a coalition?