Leo is the new king of Ireland.

blanch152

charlie14 wrote: »

I would not be getting carried away over the Dublin sky being lined with cranes and wages and employment up. We have been here before.
There is no sign or even suggestion that there is any coherent plan let alone any, "breakthrough" as you term it, on the disaster that is the HSE or on housing.
Come the next GE these will be the issues, with the recent referendum result similar to the SSM having little or no impact imo.


I find it rather confusing that you, a supposedly avowed Green Party supporter, having castigated all and sundry in the past over populist politics, is now under the guise of style lauding FG for the same.
Any reason for that ?

I expect to be voting Green Party 1 again at the next election, and Labour Party 2 - which is as far as my vote went the last time. So while I can say I had no hand or part in electing FG last time out, I must say that they will definitely be getting my number 3. If Joan Burton fails to get elected, it might actually do them some good.

Leo is surprisingly one of the most able politicians I have seen in a long time, unlike previous able politicians like Ahern and Haughey, there is a decency and an integrity to him. I also know his family and they are good people. Despite all that, still not enough to get my vote. If he banned diesel cars, now that might change things.

I am on record as saying that FG are doing an excellent job at running the country now, but they do not have the focus required on the long-term environmental issues (though 2040 was a start) and they do not have the required social conscience (though the likes of RC are too far left). A very complicated and nuanced political viewpoint I hold but a genuine one nonetheless. I am fed up with being challenged on it by the same set of posters who never declare their hidden views.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

I expect to be voting Green Party 1 again at the next election, and Labour Party 2 - which is as far as my vote went the last time. So while I can say I had no hand or part in electing FG last time out, I must say that they will definitely be getting my number 3. If Joan Burton fails to get elected, it might actually do them some good.

Leo is surprisingly one of the most able politicians I have seen in a long time, unlike previous able politicians like Ahern and Haughey, there is a decency and an integrity to him. I also know his family and they are good people. Despite all that, still not enough to get my vote. If he banned diesel cars, now that might change things.

I am on record as saying that FG are doing an excellent job at running the country now, but they do not have the focus required on the long-term environmental issues (though 2040 was a start) and they do not have the required social conscience (though the likes of RC are too far left). A very complicated and nuanced political viewpoint I hold but a genuine one nonetheless. I am fed up with being challenged on it by the same set of posters who never declare their hidden views.

All well and good but not what I was asking.


For someone that has berated all and sundry in the past over political populism, why are you now lauding it under the guise of "style" in a FG party leader when you did not vote for his party last GE, and come the next, (as both he and Burton are in the same constituency), will only give your number 3 ?
Very strange.



It certainly seems that this "style" has not you as enamoured as your posts would suggest.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I expect to be voting Green Party 1 again at the next election, and Labour Party 2 - which is as far as my vote went the last time. So while I can say I had no hand or part in electing FG last time out, I must say that they will definitely be getting my number 3. If Joan Burton fails to get elected, it might actually do them some good.

Leo is surprisingly one of the most able politicians I have seen in a long time, unlike previous able politicians like Ahern and Haughey, there is a decency and an integrity to him. I also know his family and they are good people. Despite all that, still not enough to get my vote. If he banned diesel cars, now that might change things.

I am on record as saying that FG are doing an excellent job at running the country now, but they do not have the focus required on the long-term environmental issues (though 2040 was a start) and they do not have the required social conscience (though the likes of RC are too far left). A very complicated and nuanced political viewpoint I hold but a genuine one nonetheless. I am fed up with being challenged on it by the same set of posters who never declare their hidden views.

To be fair you can see how that possibly unbeknownst to yourself you might come across as a hardcore Fine Gael defender? At every hands turn you appear to defend FG, Kenny and now Leo? You might do well to look over your contributions, you might surprise yourself. It's odd they're not getting your number 1 despite the sterling record and achievements of Kenny and Leo, as you see them. Especially after the leader of the Greens so accurately laid into them. No offence intended. Commenting on your post.
Can you explain, "Leo is surprisingly one of the most able politicians I have seen in a long time". What has he done, concretely, Leo? I'm sure both he and his family are lovely but I'm curious what I may be missing.

FYI: I've voted mainly Labour. I'm currently not talking to them. I've voted for FG, fell for the great con of 2011. I'd give SD's, SF and indies the lions share these days, but I've never given SF a number one in my life.

Colonel Claptrap

charlie14 wrote: »

People keep talking about how liberal FG now on the strenght of this referendum result, but there are reports of up to 50% of its TD`s refusing to say how they were prepared to vote on the issue.
Which is safe I imagine to say wasn`t yes.

Which reports?

14 out of all 158 TD's were undeclared 8 days before the referendum.

Where are you getting 50% of FG TD's?

Dyr

blanch152 wrote: »

You are forgetting the intangible effects. Our society has been through a terrible decade, caused by the incompetence of the FF leadership of Lenihan and Cowen. Things are getting better slowly, there are cranes all over Dublin again, wages are up, employment is up, and now on social issues like abortion and SSM, people are feeling that we are creating a better society. Those are ideal conditions for a ruling party to do well in an election. All it will take to be certain of that is some breakthrough or even some coherent plan on housing or health.

Are wages really up? Genuine question.

What has usually screwed FG in govt is they can barely hide their contempt for joe soap most of the time.

charlie14

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Which reports?

14 out of all 158 TD's were undeclared 8 days before the referendum.

Where are you getting 50% of FG TD's?

Same place as the claim that the majority of FF TD`s were voting no.

Colonel Claptrap

charlie14 wrote: »

Same place as the claim that the majority of FF TD`s were voting no.

You've lost me.

Where are the reports?

Genuine question.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

To be fair you can see how that possibly unbeknownst to yourself you might come across as a hardcore Fine Gael defender? At every hands turn you appear to defend FG, Kenny and now Leo? You might do well to look over your contributions, you might surprise yourself. It's odd they're not getting your number 1 despite the sterling record and achievements of Kenny and Leo, as you see them. Especially after the leader of the Greens so accurately laid into them. No offence intended. Commenting on your post.
Can you explain, "Leo is surprisingly one of the most able politicians I have seen in a long time". What has he done, concretely, Leo? I'm sure both he and his family are lovely but I'm curious what I may be missing.

FYI: I've voted mainly Labour. I'm currently not talking to them. I've voted for FG, fell for the great con of 2011. I'd give SD's, SF and indies the lions share these days, but I've never given SF a number one in my life.

Yes, I can see that, but admiration for the job FG are doing in limited areas does not stop me from voting for someone else based on a much bigger picture of the long-term problems for Ireland and the world.

In my opinion, the Greens are wrong on quite a number of issues (probably more issues than FG are wrong) but they are right on the very biggest one - climate change and environmental damage. Even then, they don't get all the solutions right, but in the same way that people stopped voting for the PDs once tax reform was tackled (but since reversed, ironically), I will probably end up stopping voting for the Greens when these issues become mainstreamed and are tackled with sensible policies from the main parties.

As for Leo, I said I admired him as a politician, I put him up there with CJH and Ahern, that is for his ability to appeal. To be fair, he is not corrupt like they were and his policies are better, but then again, while Ahern never fooled me, I did vote FF twice in the 1980s.

Edward M

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, I can see that, but admiration for the job FG are doing in limited areas does not stop me from voting for someone else based on a much bigger picture of the long-term problems for Ireland and the world.

In my opinion, the Greens are wrong on quite a number of issues (probably more issues than FG are wrong) but they are right on the very biggest one - climate change and environmental damage. Even then, they don't get all the solutions right, but in the same way that people stopped voting for the PDs once tax reform was tackled (but since reversed, ironically), I will probably end up stopping voting for the Greens when these issues become mainstreamed and are tackled with sensible policies from the main parties.

As for Leo, I said I admired him as a politician, I put him up there with CJH and Ahern, that is for his ability to appeal. To be fair, he is not corrupt like they were and his policies are better, but then again, while Ahern never fooled me, I did vote FF twice in the 1980s.

Which policies are better though?
OK perhaps FG have a better record since the bust and their policies of correction have been good, but what evidence is there so far that their policies of actually improving situations and ordinary lives are better than anyone else's?
Health care and housing crisis probably getting worse as the economy gets better, I'm not sure if their policies have any benefit to anyone on lower incomes at all, there is little evidence of it so far really, more people working surely, but in low income jobs where any mortgage prospects at current house prices are not achievable.
Dublin going great, the rest of the country still trying to recover to any acceptable level really.

The housing crisis would be greatly alleviated by banning Air BnBs.

storker

Matt Barrett wrote: »

FYI: I've voted mainly Labour. I'm currently not talking to them. I've voted for FG, fell for the great con of 2011. I'd give SD's, SF and indies the lions share these days, but I've never given SF a number one in my life.

Wow, it's like looking in a mirror...

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The opinion polls after the summer will be interesting.

The last poll by Sunday Times/Behaviour and Attitudes showed FG slipping downward by 3 points with an electorate that had (according to RTE's Exit Polling) made up it's mind on the 8th Ref before the campaign started.

To me that shows that FG will have gotten whatever bounce from Repeal that they are gonna get.

Business will return to normal soon enough.

Colonel Claptrap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The last poll by Sunday Times/Behaviour and Attitudes showed FG slipping downward by 3 points with an electorate that had (according to RTE's Exit Polling) made up it's mind on the 8th Ref before the campaign started.

To me that shows that FG will have gotten whatever bounce from Repeal that they are gonna get.

Business will return to normal soon enough.

I predict a boost for Mary Lou, Simon Harris and the government following their performances in the debates.

Most social issue referendum dividends are short lived however.

James Brown

While Leo and Harris deserve credit and to an extent have shared some of it, I can see why the 'quiet revolution' sound bite pissed a lot of people off.

A heartfelt commentary on it here;

Miriam Lord: Clare Daly reminds Dáil of the real agents of change

But one member of the Dáil, while working tirelessly on the ground during the campaign, kept herself out of the limelight when her colleagues were publicly welcoming the popular vote and lavishing praise on the public for delivering such a decisive margin. Some of them must be very sore this week from their bandwagon jumping and selfie exploits.

Clare Daly, Independents4Change deputy from Dublin Fingal, has been the most compelling voice of recent times in Dáil Éireann in the fight for abortion rights. She not only talked the talk and walked the walk, but came up with legislation to try and move on the situation.

When she rose to speak, the chamber hushed.

There weren’t too many TDs there, although most of the female deputies were present.

She was brilliant...

"....These are the “glory days” now. But it wasn’t always like this. Daly paid a special tribute to Ailbhe Smyth, the veteran campaigner – “a giant in terms of this movement” who “has stood there when there was no glory to be had”.

But she also commended the Taoiseach and Minister for Health Simon Harris for their roles, spurred along, she suspected by Katherine Zappone and FG backbencher Kate O’Connell. (She might also have mentioned Marcella Corcoran-Kennedy from Offaly, who took some terrible barracking from male colleagues at the parliamentary party when she spoke in support of choice.)


But Daly wasn’t letting them away too lightly.

“Let’s be honest here, right,” she began. “Politicians haven’t led on this issue. We haven’t even followed until recently.”

The long, uphill battle was like pushing a boulder up a hill for decades “and nobody in here was involved in pushing it up. Let’s be honest about it, for once, can we? Nobody was. In actual fact, a lot of people in here were sitting on the boulder making it even more difficult for those outside who wanted to push for change.”

And then she called out the others who, once the boulder crested the summit, jumped ahead of it to try claim some of the glory.

They were at it again on Tuesday.

Out-posturing games
“People trying to out-posture each other into who’s going to be the most radical.

“Sure we’ll cancel all holidays between now and forever. Let’s bring legislation in tomorrow. Sure we’ll bring it in yesterday. It’s a nonsense, lads. Can we please just cop on with the games?”

Nobody said a contradicting word. They sat there and took their medicine because they knew Clare Daly was telling the truth.

Voice cracking, she finished by thanking the young people who voted.

“I was one of those students years ago and we never, we didn’t succeed in changing the world but I really hope that this generation does . . . They’re the legends out of this and I hope they make a better job of changing the world than we did.”

And she sat down just before the tears came. Mick Wallace was bawling like a baby.

The chamber broke into applause as the two cried. Slowly, TDs drifted outside. “Did you hear Clare’s speech?” they asked people they met.

It was special.

And so to Danny Healy-Rae.

He spoke about “demountable homes” and rural cottages.

Like Saturday never happened.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-clare-daly-reminds-d%C3%A1il-of-the-real-agents-of-change-1.3513153

The 'quiet revolution' might make a nice marketing quip but it is an incorrect description. This is one of my issues with Varadkar, aside from FG, it's all about spinning the narrative and winning.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The last poll by Sunday Times/Behaviour and Attitudes showed FG slipping downward by 3 points with an electorate that had (according to RTE's Exit Polling) made up it's mind on the 8th Ref before the campaign started.

To me that shows that FG will have gotten whatever bounce from Repeal that they are gonna get.

Business will return to normal soon enough.

I don't know how many times I have to explain that one poll in isolation doesn't mean very much. I have also previously linked to research that showed that B&A were the least reliable polling company, so taking one poll from B&A as being indicative of anything is a particularly dangerous route.

As well as that, the bounce from Repeal will be because of the feel-good factor of the referendum having passed. If there is a poll in the next few weeks, there will inevitably be a bounce for FG from that, but again, remembering the warning not to take polls in isolation, I am more interested in the early autumn polls which will give an indication of whether that is a long-lasting effect.

Shurimgreat

People are so shallow.
Up to last week, a lot of people thought this government was doing an abysmal job. Their handling of the health service, justice, garda corruption, crime, housing, waiting lists, A&E was abysmal.

Are we suddenly to forget all that?

Of course not. Varadkar et al are wringing every last drop of publicitiy and popularity out of the referendum. Leaving it aside its still one of the worst governments in the history of the state.

Shurimgreat

Deleted User wrote: »

The housing crisis would be greatly alleviated by banning Air BnBs.

Banning or taxing them to the hilt while also removing normal responsible landlords entirely from the taxnet as the tax on rental income often makes renting out a house or apartment not worth the hassle and is usually passed on to the tenant in any case.

James Brown

The trouble with Air BnB is it takes long term rentals off the market. There is still an owner/landlord, however troublesome tenants come and go more frequently and have no concerns because they are only staying for very short periods any way. I would take a tenant over an Air BnB customer as a neighbour any day.

Colonel Claptrap

Pat Rabbitte suggests now may be the time for Varadker to take the leap.

A bounce on the back of the referendum coupled with a dysfunctional parliament - hell bent on crippling the government's ability to enact legislation - means that now is as good a time as any.

Having a strong government with a mandate ahead of October's crunch Brexit talks makes sense.

Abortion aside, all other bills are as good as dead thanks to our filibusting cousins from Kerry. Why limp on until October?

McMurphy

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Pat Rabbitte suggests now may be the time for Varadker to take the leap.

A bounce on the back of the referendum coupled with a dysfunctional parliament - hell bent on crippling the government's ability to enact legislation - means that now is as good a time as any.

Having a strong government with a mandate ahead of October's crunch Brexit talks makes sense.

Abortion aside, all other bills are as good as dead thanks to our filibusting cousins from Kerry. Why limp on until October?

Sure why not, it was a successful gamble for the Tories.

James Brown

He'd be a fool. He might even believe his own hype but I can't see it carrying any great weight to votes. Everyone knows the repeal movement goes far beyond Leo. They'll certainly get a bump, but you know, record breaking crises and the like. Anyone working, but unable to afford a roof might not be as enamored as Mr. Rabbite.

James Brown

It seems when the cooking of the books is taken into account, Homelessness is almost stabilising.
Personally I feel changing the categorisation to save blushes will cost the tax payer more money.
Currently those living in emergency accommodation, privately owned hotels/B&B's etc, paid for by the tax payer, are homeless, but those living in private accommodation, houses, rooms, paid for by the tax payer, are not homeless. Makes no never mind, except, where there may be the intent to get 'homeless' people out of costly emergency accommodation, there may be less of a push to get the new not homeless out of their privately rented accommodation, them not being as much on the radar. This would likely mean the no longer homeless remain in private rented accommodation longer than the homeless in private rented accommodation.
The concern regarding changing names and re-catagorisation and the potentially larger cost to the tax payer doesn't stop there.
We are now buying privately built and owned houses under the guise of 'building social housing'. Buying privately, at maket rates and then providing these homes to people, is not building social housing or related to social housing builds. It's buying homes at market rates, with tax payer money, for use as social housing.

Earlier, the minister denied that the number of social homes built by local authorities had been overstated.

New analysis suggests that half of new social homes listed as local authority builds were bought from private developers.

The Department of Housing confirmed last month that the total number of homes built by local authorities was 780, but 386 were bought directly from a builder or developer.

In such circumstances, a private developer supplies the site, builds the homes and sells units, known as "turnkey", to the local authority.

Architect and housing policy analyst Mel Reynolds, who has analysed the figures, said the units should not be categorised as local authority builds as they were being privately purchased.

"The number of local authority builds has been overstated by almost 100% for last year," he said.

The homes are added to the social housing stock, but Mr Reynolds said that the State would have paid a premium for such properties at a time when local authorities already own enough land to build more than 45,000 new homes.

"If you are going to buy new social houses from the private sector you are competing with ordinary buyers and increasing the price of new homes," he added.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0530/966985-social-housing/

The optics of less homeless and more social 'builds' might bode well for Leo, but it's not saving the tax payer, but costing more IMO.

Wheeliebin30

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It seems when the cooking of the books is taken into account, Homelessness is almost stabilising.
Personally I feel changing the categorisation to save blushes will cost the tax payer more money.
Currently those living in emergency accommodation, privately owned hotels/B&B's etc, paid for by the tax payer, are homeless, but those living in private accommodation, houses, rooms, paid for by the tax payer, are not homeless. Makes no never mind, except, where there may be the intent to get 'homeless' people out of costly emergency accommodation, there may be less of a push to get the new not homeless out of their privately rented accommodation, them not being as much on the radar. This would likely mean the no longer homeless remain in private rented accommodation longer than the homeless in private rented accommodation.
The concern regarding changing names and re-catagorisation and the potentially larger cost to the tax payer doesn't stop there.
We are now buying privately built and owned houses under the guise of 'building social housing'. Buying privately, at maket rates and then providing these homes to people, is not building social housing or related to social housing builds. It's buying homes at market rates, with tax payer money, for use as social housing.



The optics of less homeless and more social 'builds' might bode well for Leo, but it's not saving the tax payer, but costing more IMO.

My my you really have it in for Leo!!!!!

James Brown

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

My my you really have it in for Leo!!!!!

If you disagree, feel free. Insert Murphy if you like.

Wheeliebin30

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you disagree, feel free.

Every post is Leo this Leo that.

You strike me as one of those people who expects to be held by the hand from the cradle to the grave.

Price of milk is too dear and your local traffic light doesn’t change in time you blame Leo Varadkar, maybe I’m wrong.

McMurphy

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Every post is Leo this Leo that.

You strike me as one of those people who expects to be held by the hand from the cradle to the grave.

Price of milk is too dear and your local traffic light doesn’t change in time you blame Leo Varadkar, maybe I’m wrong.

In a thread about Leo Varadkar.......:eek:

The horror.

Wheeliebin30

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

In a thread about Leo Varadkar.......:eek:

The horror.

And repeal the 8th, and Ruth koppinger, ff, sf, Murphy etc etc.

Yet this poster in every post brings it all back to Leo.

Slighy strange.

FrancieBrady

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And repeal the 8th, and Ruth koppinger, ff, sf, Murphy etc etc.

Yet this poster in every post brings it all back to Leo.

Slighy strange.

The thread title:

'Leo is the new king of Ireland.'

What surprises you that the above things you mentioned would be discussed in such a titled thread???

Wheeliebin30

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The thread title:

'Leo is the new king of Ireland.'

What surprises you that the above things you mentioned would be discussed in such a titled thread???

Oh hello there Francis, what a surprise you’re joining in on a Leo bashing conversation.

Oh I just heard the number of people homeless is down on the news.

One of you boys care to give Leo some credit for this?????

Doubt it.

But if they increase we all know the script.

FrancieBrady

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Oh hello there Francis, what a surprise you’re joining in on a Leo bashing conversation.

Oh I just heard the number of people homeless is down on the news.

One of you boys care to give Leo some credit for this?????

Doubt it.

But if they increase we all know the script.

Is it down because of something he did? Care to detail?