Leo is the new king of Ireland.

Colonel Claptrap

The number of claimants on the Live Register fell again last month as the Republic’s jobs-rich growth continues to drive down unemployment.

The latest monthly numbers from the Central Statistics Office (CSO) show the number of people signing on dropped by 4,100 (1.8 per cent) in May, bringing the seasonally adjusted total to 224,900, its lowest level since July 2008.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/live-register-falls-as-growth-drives-down-unemployment-1.3523851


Nothing to see here.
Doom and gloom thataway>>>>

charlie14

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/live-register-falls-as-growth-drives-down-unemployment-1.3523851


Nothing to see here.
Doom and gloom thataway>>>>

Which just emphasises my point that with 50% of incomes lower than 27,000 then there are obviously a lot of low paid jobs included in those figures.

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/live-register-falls-as-growth-drives-down-unemployment-1.3523851


Nothing to see here.
Doom and gloom thataway>>>>

Brilliant. Are we done with blaming a small minority, (people unemployed because they want to be, who are missed by welfare and Leo's witch hunt) for any of the nations economic ills?

McMurphy

I see a few people, oftimes highly revered on this site, are lining up to take shots at Leo there because he is attending the Feile an Phobail festival in West Belfast.

Maria Cahill has said that Leo is making a huge error of judgement attending the festival, and Austin Stack is claiming "the romance between FG and SF continues"

Reason being, it includes a talk by the leaders of the 1983 Maze Prison escape .

Sticky Wicket for some I imagine.

James Brown

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I see a few people, oftimes highly revered on this site, are lining up to take shots at Leo there because he is attending the Feile an Phobail festival in West Belfast.

Maria Cahill has said that Leo is making a huge error of judgement attending the festival, and Austin Stack is claiming "the romance between FG and SF continues"

Reason being, it includes a talk by the leaders of the 1983 Maze Prison escape .

Sticky Wicket for some I imagine.

I think if he meets the grand wizard or whatever of the orange order, goes to an exhibit of Ian Paisley's, I think it's only right he does the other side too.

McMurphy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think if he meets the grand wizard or whatever of the orange order, goes to an exhibit of Ian Paisley's, I think it's only right he does the other side too.

The first thing entered my head when I seen that was fair play to Leo, a mixed race homosexual Irishman meeting up with the head of an organisation that is not only homophobic, but racist and sectarian too was admirable.

But I'll let others reserve their outrage because he's attending a festival too.

Edward M

blanch152 wrote: »

That is not what I was saying.

Those who earn a wage should be higher than those who get an income. Otherwise, why would anyone work?

But the way you said it implies almost despise at those on an income as against a wage.
Not everyone at home is even on an income, but are there being supported by someone else while working as hard perhaps just rearing a family and keeping house.
The way you put it was wrong IMO.

Colonel Claptrap

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Brilliant. Are we done with blaming a small minority, (people unemployed because they want to be, who are missed by welfare and Leo's witch hunt) for any of the nations economic ills?

Ah Matt, come on now. You're better than this.

If you're going to troll, you need to make it believable. Bait me first. Walk me down the garden path. Make me think we're having a realistic conversation before slapping me with something outrageous.

On what planet does somebody posting the latest CSO results = blaming unemployed people for the economy?

I know the rule is attack the post, not the poster but I'm at a lost for words today.

I'm conscious of a recent mod warning so will respectfully leave it there for the day.

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Ah Matt, come on now. You're better than this.

If you're going to troll, you need to make it believable. Bait me first. Walk me down the garden path. Make me think we're having a realistic conversation before slapping me with something outrageous.

On what planet does somebody posting the latest CSO results = blaming unemployed people for the economy?

I know the rule is attack the post, not the poster but I'm at a lost for words today.

I'm conscious of a recent mod warning so will respectfully leave it there for the day.

There's no trolling in pointing out that we are to applaud the favourable high numbers of people in employment yet blame the supposed troves of ner-do-wells sponging off the state anytime somebody points out one of the crises. It can't be both.
Believe me, I'm all for discussing politics and policy. No interest in any conspiracy/'nothing to see here' inane chatter.

Consonata

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't see the issue.

The median or mean wage is 44,000 is correct, as it only includes those who get up off their backside and go out to work.

The median income of 27,000 includes all of those who sit at home every day.

Simply a case of different measures. Leo isn't too far wrong.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of income.

Median income in Ireland in 2015 was €28,500, in that 50% or less at work earned at or under €28,500.

Mean income in Ireland is as the Taoiseach says, €44,000. This is a hugely deceptive figure and he knows this, because what it does is it takes an average of all the wages people make, so that anybody who is making 500 or 600 thousand a year drag up the mean average, even though they may be outliers.

Nitrogan

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I see a few people, oftimes highly revered on this site, are lining up to take shots at Leo there because he is attending the Feile an Phobail festival in West Belfast.

Maria Cahill has said that Leo is making a huge error of judgement attending the festival,  and Austin Stack is claiming "the romance between FG and SF continues"

Reason being, it includes a talk by the leaders of the 1983 Maze Prison escape .  

Sticky Wicket for some I imagine.

Is the 'in joke' of the first line worth explaining to people who don't frequent this thread/board often? If it's not relevant to the post never mind.
You could view Leo Varadkar attending an event like that in West Belfast in a number of ways, cosying to Sinn Fein, usurping Sinn Fein, a warning to Brexiters, affirming patriotic credentials, two fingers to the DUP ?  
Looks like a shrewd move as it seems to only have upset the right people from his point of view.

Nitrogan

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I see a few people, oftimes highly revered on this site, are lining up to take shots at Leo there because he is attending the Feile an Phobail festival in West Belfast.

Maria Cahill has said that Leo is making a huge error of judgement attending the festival,  and Austin Stack is claiming "the romance between FG and SF continues"

Reason being, it includes a talk by the leaders of the 1983 Maze Prison escape .  

Sticky Wicket for some I imagine.

Is the 'in joke' of the first line worth explaining to people who don't frequent this thread/board often? If it's not relevant to the post never mind.
You could view Leo Varadkar attending an event like that in West Belfast in a number of ways, cosying to Sinn Fein, usurping Sinn Fein, a warning to Brexiters, affirming patriotic credentials, two fingers to the DUP ?  
Looks like a shrewd move as it seems to only have upset the right people from his point of view.

charlie14

Nitrogan wrote: »

Is the 'in joke' of the first line worth explaining to people who don't frequent this thread/board often? If it's not relevant to the post never mind.
You could view Leo Varadkar attending an event like that in West Belfast in a number of ways, cosying to Sinn Fein, usurping Sinn Fein, a warning to Brexiters, affirming patriotic credentials, two fingers to the DUP ?
Looks like a shrewd move as it seems to only have upset the right people from his point of view.

The right people upset from Varadkar`s point of view are Maria Cahill and Austin Stack

FrancieBrady

Why is Austin Stack's view on this of any importance? Is it because of his association with FF?

McMurphy

Nitrogan wrote: »

Is the 'in joke' of the first line worth explaining to people who don't frequent this thread/board often? If it's not relevant to the post never mind.
You could view Leo Varadkar attending an event like that in West Belfast in a number of ways, cosying to Sinn Fein, usurping Sinn Fein, a warning to Brexiters, affirming patriotic credentials, two fingers to the DUP ?  
Looks like a shrewd move as it seems to only have upset the right people from his point of view.

There was no in or out joke, the post wasn't cryptically written eifher to imply there was, it was simple enough.

Also, the only people who seem upset are a unionist in the north, Maria Cahill and Austin Stack.

Why you feel Leo Varadkar wished to upset them in a shrewd way needs a bit of explaining itself though, and I'm all ears.

Nitrogan

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

There was no in or out joke, the post wasn't cryptically written eifher to imply there was, it was simple enough.

Also, the only people who seem upset are a unionist in the north, Maria Cahill and Austin Stack.

Why you feel Leo Varadkar wished to upset them in a shrewd way needs a bit of explaining itself though, and I'm all ears.

Apologies the line just went over my head then.

I don't know who Maria Cahill or Austin Stack are either and I don't think he's really upset Unionists.

I did not say he wished to upset anyone.

The people I believe he has upset most are people who don't like him or his politics domestically. He's annoyed them by crossing into their turf.

charlie14

Nitrogan wrote: »

Apologies the line just went over my head then.

I don't know who Maria Cahill or Austin Stack are either and I don't think he's really upset Unionists.

I did not say he wished to upset anyone.

The people I believe he has upset most are people who don't like him or his politics domestically. He's annoyed them by crossing into their turf.

The only reason I can see for Cahill and Stack being annoyed is that they felt he was cosying up to SF.


I can see where a few supporters of FG, and a Green Party supporter on here, plus some FG supporters further afield who would be adamantly opposed to a SF/FG coalition government, I do not see how anyone else would be annoyed.

Even FF would be delighted I imagine.

christy c

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm reminded of a mistake I made recently.



I should have said, highest level of debt per person in the EU. I was miss-outing from a previous post, which I'd linked to source.
But hey, the merit of my post, (including the other 99.9% of it which went ignored) held true, so no harm.

Why are you dragging this up from 6 weeks ago? The merit of your post which included the false information about personal debt was a conspiracy about making it easier for big business. I addressed that by asking what their motive would be in that case.

Me highlighting the false statement was just a side note.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

Why are you dragging this up from 6 weeks ago? The merit of your post which included the false information about personal debt was a conspiracy about making it easier for big business. I addressed that by asking what their motive would be in that case.

Me highlighting the false statement was just a side note.

I'm refering to the comment

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Maths aside, the merit of his statement holds true.

We could get into the conspiracy theories as to why he erred or take the statement on it's merits. I suppose if you agree it has merit, if you don't, Leo's fudging. It's in the eye of the beholder.

Colonel Claptrap

Semantics, mathematics and interpretations aside, it's probably worth all reminding ourselves that the taoiseach did not make the claim.

A spokesman for the taoiseach's department mentioned it illustratively when explaining a wider point to reporters. It was not an official statement.

Putting all of that aside, the suggested change to child benefit (proposed by IBEC) was duly taken into consideration by the government and rejected in principle.

We have all been making a mountain out of a molehill for several pages.

In the interest of getting back on topic, how do people feel the unionist community view Leo?

Consonata

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

We have all been making a mountain out of a molehill for several pages.

Highlighting attitudes held by the Taoiseachs department, is not making a mountain out of a mole hill

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

In the interest of getting back on topic, how do people feel the unionist community view Leo?

Depending which segment of the unionist community you are talking about. Capital U unionists will probably dislike any leader from down south, never mind the fact that he is gay also. Small u unionists are likely more interested, especially considering he is stretching out the olive branch as we have been seeing over the past few days.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Is that what we're doing now? Cherry picking 'facts'?

No, I would call it using the most relevant facts, and disregarding the irrelevant ones. If you are talking about child benefit for working parents, an average measure of their income should refer to wages and should not include social welfare in its calculation. Simple as that.

blanch152

charlie14 wrote: »

Which just emphasises my point that with 50% of incomes lower than 27,000 then there are obviously a lot of low paid jobs included in those figures.

Incomes do not equal wages.

Income per person refers to every student, every person on lone parents allowances, every pensioner, every person on disability allowance, as well as every unemployed person.

The "50% of incomes lower than 27,000" tells us that there are a lot of people not participating in the workforce. Given that unemployment is low, we need to start using a carrot and stick approach to getting them back into the workforce.

Zubeneschamali

blanch152 wrote: »

Given that unemployment is low, we need to start using a carrot and stick approach to getting them back into the workforce.

Students, pensioners and disabled people?

Why?

Consonata

blanch152 wrote: »

Incomes do not equal wages.

Income per person refers to every student, every person on lone parents allowances, every pensioner, every person on disability allowance, as well as every unemployed person.

The "50% of incomes lower than 27,000" tells us that there are a lot of people not participating in the workforce. Given that unemployment is low, we need to start using a carrot and stick approach to getting them back into the workforce.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/super-rich-or-super-angry-where-are-you-on-ireland-s-income-pyramid-1.2104861

Median earnings are estimated at €28,500 last year for all those at work. So half of those at work – 964,000 people – earned less than €28,500 and half earned more.

Are we clear now?

blanch152

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Students, pensioners and disabled people?

Why?

https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm


Have a look at the chart. Ireland is just hovering at the OECD average in terms of labour market participation rates. The Nordics, who we are continuously told by the left that we should be mirroring, all have much higher participation rates. One of the best ways to reduce the threat of an economy overheating is to increase the participation rate.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm


Have a look at the chart. Ireland is just hovering at the OECD average in terms of labour market participation rates. The Nordics, who we are continuously told by the left that we should be mirroring, all have much higher participation rates. One of the best ways to reduce the threat of an economy overheating is to increase the participation rate.

Why are you suggesting luring people into the workforce? Is anyone not working by choice and being financed by the state? If there are a significant amount who choose not to work and receive state aid, isn't that illegal?
I'm not getting what you think the problem is and how this would solve it.

Amalgam

There's a 'list' on our dear Leader in this week's publication of the french, 'Nouvel Obs'. They have him leaning center right, 'buddies' with Trump and anti church..

10 choses avoir sur Leo Varadkar, le Premier ministre qui secoue l'Irlande catholique

Le chef du gouvernement irlandais, medecin, a milite pour le droit a l'avortement adopte le 25 mai. Apres des annees d'un discours contraire…

Par Sarah Halifa-Legrand
Publie 31 mai 2018 5h54

https://www.nouvelobs.com/monde/20180529.OBS7377/10-choses-a-savoir-sur-leo-varadkar-le-premier-ministre-qui-secoue-l-irlande-catholique.html

Colonel Claptrap

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Why are you suggesting luring people into the workforce? Is anyone not working by choice and being financed by the state? If there are a significant amount who choose not to work and receive state aid, isn't that illegal?
I'm not getting what you think the problem is and how this would solve it.

Zero unemployment is not really zero. In economic terms when there is full employment, there are approximately 5% of the Labour force who are either in between jobs when surveyed, or can work but choose not to.

Having a large full employment unemployment rate is seen as wasteful to an economy in general.

Governments should encourage as many people as possible to contribute to the workforce, assuming they are able.

Would you not agree?

James Brown

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Zero unemployment is not really zero. In economic terms when there is full employment, there are approximately 5% of the Labour force who are either in between jobs when surveyed, or can work but choose not to.

Having a large full employment unemployment rate is seen as wasteful to an economy in general.

Governments should encourage as many people as possible to contribute to the workforce, assuming they are able.

Would you not agree?

Encourage who? And what's the problem this might solve?