Leo is the new king of Ireland.

James Brown

Red_Wake wrote: »

He was probably invited to it by the council to get publicity. 

I'm not sure what point you think you're making, the article makes it clear that the development in question is in the hands of the council.

The point I'm making is that the Minister for Housing has a remit, which is, housing, housing policy. Dictating housing policy and allocating funds for housing. It seems he can take the kudos but any criticism about child homeless numbers is to do with local council social housing....which he's involved in anyway.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So there's no point in having an Eoghan Murphy at all?
I think what you are saying is, Murphy is doing nothing so therefore doing nothing wrong and we should ignore him and concentrate on LA's now that FG/FF are no longer the majority in some of them? Okey Doke.
Basically if someone criticises Murphy, it would be expected that Murphy be discussed on the contents of the comment I would have thought.
I suppose Murphy fudging social housing figures and his delight at the child homeless crisis losing point 00 whatever percent, was obviously going to lead to the shinner Councillors the blagards. Makes sense...
But what about national policy and his overseeing a worsening crisis and policies such as the one I linked to on investing public money into private landlord companies so they can profit off taxpayers during a housing crisis? Councilors again is it?

No, I said that Eoghan Murphy can be criticised for pretending that he could solve the problem. No central government can solve it.

No matter how good or bad central policy on housing is, the Minister and his Department cannot build any houses or apartments. Neither can they grant planning permissions or adopt development plans. If the local authorities are completely incompetent and/or badly governed by idiot councillors (and I believe they are both) then anything the Minister does is pointless.

As for the article you linked to, say there are 200 apartments getting a rise of 6%. That is peanuts compared to one council renting an extra 3,000 units from the private sector. You need to apply some proportionality to your thinking.

We can judge Murphy or central government on their policies, but that is only about 10% of the story. The real story is in the incompetence of local authorities. 90% of the responsibility for housing lies with them. Here is another example of their planning incompetence:

http://www.thejournal.ie/johnny-ronan-tara-street-tower-2-3915926-Mar2018/

Their development plan allowed for high-rise in this location, yet they turned it down!!! If Ronan sues them, he could win big.

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/OtherDevelopmentPlans/LocalAreaPlans/Documents/1GeorgesQuayLAP.pdf

" To provide for three locations where buildings exceed
general height maximums in order to provide civic identity
and mark key locations and views within the City as
follows:
a. One tall building at Tara Street Station"


I could go on and on, anyone want to check out the fiasco of the Phibsboro LAP?

The level of incompetence in Dublin City Council is up there with the worst seen in this country.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Banal you say...

Look at this. No business being there at all by all accounts. Pretending he's involved with local housing.



Murphy has some cheek trying to steal the thunder from local shinner, PBP or whatevs Councillors.

Yes, that is right, and look at the mess that has become, with the local residents favouring the St. Patrick's Athletic development which would regenerate the area. Another example of DCC incompetence. If I were Eoghan Murphy, I would stay miles away from any of their projects.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, that is right, and look at the mess that has become, with the local residents favouring the St. Patrick's Athletic development which would regenerate the area. Another example of DCC incompetence. If I were Eoghan Murphy, I would stay miles away from any of their projects.

Up until now Eoghan has. The council pushed though despite Eoghan. It has to be noted here, I don't think anyone has claimed the councils are blameless. I think the confusion sets in when some of us discuss Murphy and the councils are thrown in the mix like you have to side with one or the other, (the same way some use Paul Murphy re water).
As regards the stadium, I think it's a nice idea and they were going to give up their current grounds for social housing. But what Joan Collins and former St. Michael's resident groups proposed and seems to be happening, might be a decent enough idea in itself. It also should be noted former residents were promised regeneration, not a football stadium. Beats investing tax monies in private landlords to enable them gouge the same tax payers for rents. When I find out which local council is responsible! *shakes fist*
The other FG TD in the mix is local, it's traditionally a strong FG area. She just doesn't want any social housing riff raff. But like, she's not on the council, so she, like Eoghan is irrelevant right?

Idbatterim

ok looks, it is clear that incompetence or reluctance to solve the housing crisis is ripe at local and national level. Can national government not force through minimum densities? there are two new developments of low density housing gone up beside luas stops in citywest and belgard, beside the luas stops!

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

ok looks, it is clear that incompetence or reluctance to solve the housing crisis is ripe at local and national level. Can national government not force through minimum densities? there are two new developments of low density housing gone up beside luas stops in citywest and belgard, beside the luas stops!

The councils were responsible for selling off public land during the boom for a short sighted quick profit. But they were FF/FG heavy back then, so we don't like to talk about ancient history.
However, it's national policy that decided to finance private landlords and developers with our tax monies. All the tax payer gets from it is properties many need state aid to afford. It's no wonder the crisis is not being tackled.

Idbatterim

I attended this the other day! I appreciate he MAY be trying to do some good, rather than just build his profile BUT its just the same old discussion going around in circles, we know what needs to be done... Im f*cking sick of hearing the same bull****, local and national government are entirely to blame, I dont want to hear about private developers, I dont want to hear about vulture funds!

Dublin Housing Crisis: No City for Young Families.

Join our panel of experts - Nicola Bergin, Orla Hegarty and Mel Reynolds - on 24 July at 8pm in the Goat Bar & Grill as we discuss what could and should be done to make living in Dublin a realistic dream for young families. It was organised by Fianna Fáil’s Constituency Representative for Dublin Rathdown.

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

I attended this the other day! I appreciate he MAY be trying to do some good, rather than just build his profile BUT its just the same old discussion going around in circles, we know what needs to be done... Im f*cking sick of hearing the same bull****, local and national government are entirely to blame, I dont want to hear about private developers, I dont want to hear about vulture funds!

Dublin Housing Crisis: No City for Young Families.

Join our panel of experts - Nicola Bergin, Orla Hegarty and Mel Reynolds - on 24 July at 8pm in the Goat Bar & Grill as we discuss what could and should be done to make living in Dublin a realistic dream for young families. It was organised by Fianna Fáil’s Constituency Representative for Dublin Rathdown.

It's all connected. It's policy that favours vulture funds and private developers/landlords over the working poor that helps to drive the crisis. Tax payer money is part funding it. Look at that private landlord company, the state invested in it, you and I bank rolled it. Then it sets rents as high as it likes and the renting tax payer is gouged. What's in it for the tax payer? The state coffers may glean some interest? Does that meet the cost of state aid for rent? Whose side are government/local/national on? The problem is either the wrong idea about how to go about it, the same ideas we've been flogging as things get worse or they are happy enough with things as is, I'm alright Jack.

Not sure what shape that discussion might take if discussing private developers and so on is off the table.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's all connected. It's policy that favours vulture funds and private developers/landlords over the working poor that helps to drive the crisis. Tax payer money is part funding it. Look at that private landlord company, the state invested in it, you and I bank rolled it. Then it sets rents as high as it likes and the renting tax payer is gouged. What's in it for the tax payer? The state coffers may glean some interest? Does that meet the cost of state aid for rent? Whose side are government/local/national on? The problem is either the wrong idea about how to go about it, the same ideas we've been flogging as things get worse or they are happy enough with things as is, I'm alright Jack.

Not sure what shape that discussion might take if discussing private developers and so on is off the table.

What is your position on the student accommodation issue? Private developers have come in from abroad and are now building student accommodation all over Dublin which will reduce the pressure on the apartment/house-sharing rental market. Do you think this is a good thing?

Red_Wake

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Red_Wake wrote: »

He was probably invited to it by the council to get publicity. 

I'm not sure what point you think you're making, the article makes it clear that the development in question is in the hands of the council.

The point I'm making is that the Minister for Housing has a remit, which is, housing, housing policy. Dictating housing policy and allocating funds for housing. It seems he can take the kudos but any criticism about child homeless numbers is to do with local council social housing....which he's involved in anyway.

If you admit the Minister for Housing has no scope to solve the problem, why is he the main target for your ire?

You admit DCC, and LA's in general are to blame, but you won't criticise them. Why?

Idbatterim

It's all connected. It's policy that favours vulture funds and private developers/landlords over the working poor that helps to drive the crisis. Tax payer money is part funding it.

the fortune spent on hotel and emergency accommodation was discussed at that meeting, yes its a massive waste of money IF they actually built and provided state built accommodation, but they dont, those people cant just be turfed out onto the streets. So unless they plan on buying two man pop up tents in dealz for E10 and setting up a camp in phoenix park or state building state housing again, this money up in smoke argument, is a big fat red herring!

have you watched the below Matt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL3n59wC8kk

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

ok looks, it is clear that incompetence or reluctance to solve the housing crisis is ripe at local and national level. Can national government not force through minimum densities? there are two new developments of low density housing gone up beside luas stops in citywest and belgard, beside the luas stops!

This is the exact point in relation to the Tara Street Station project.

The government has put in place minimum densities and raised heights to allow for high-rise development. DCC put it in their development plan.

Yet the current DCC heirarchy have chosen to ignore all of this and turn down the project!!! And not a peep out of the councillors in charge, and not a single bit of criticism from their supporters.

Hitman3000

Interesting the constant criticism of certain councils due to which groupings hold control, yet the majority of councils throughout the state are in the control if the larger parties. The housing crisis is not just confined to Dublin but yet no critism of these councils form the usual suspects.

blanch152

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Interesting the constant criticism of certain councils due to which groupings hold control, yet the majority of councils throughout the state are in the control if the larger parties. The housing crisis is not just confined to Dublin but yet no critism of these councils form the usual suspects.

Good question.

Dublin is in a housing crisis, and it is particularly bad in the two councils controlled by parties of the left - South Dublin and Dublin City Council.

Outside Dublin, the area most in crisis is Cork, which is controlled by no grouping, a bit like the Dail, and like the Dail, is making a poor effort in addressing the crisis.

Outside of that, there are housing problems in the rest of the State, but it can be argued that calling the housing problem in, say Leitrim or Monaghan, a crisis, is an overstatement.

So, perhaps the most useful place to look is Fingal, where the council is controlled by FF, FG and Labour.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/housing/tackling_the_housing_crisis/

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/housing/we_are_buying_land_and_new_housing/

Even a quick look at their website would show you that they are much more active than their city counterparts.

I have provided a long list of issues with DCC ranging from the Tara St. Station issue to the Phibsboro LAP to the St. Michael's regeneration where the council are repeatedly failing to address the housing crisis through incompetence. If you have a similar list for other councils, please feel free to share. If they are all equally incompetent as you suggest, it should be easy to find out.

Hitman3000

blanch152 wrote:

I have provided a long list of issues with DCC ranging from the Tara St. Station issue to the Phibsboro LAP to the St. Michael's regeneration where the council are repeatedly failing to address the housing crisis through incompetence. If you have a similar list for other councils, please feel free to share. If they are all equally incompetent as you suggest, it should be easy to find out.

I offered the example of the housing crisis which is not just confined to Dublin. The numbers maybe less nationwide but the situation exists. As I have already said there is constant criticism of Dublin councils and there is some justification for this. However this criticism never extends to the other councils throughout the state, I could be forgiven for thinking it's bias to what grouping controls each council. Cork was recently mentioned due to purchasing houses but no allocation yet but no ire directed at said councils.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

What is your position on the student accommodation issue? Private developers have come in from abroad and are now building student accommodation all over Dublin which will reduce the pressure on the apartment/house-sharing rental market. Do you think this is a good thing?

Depends on the rents. Where government, at national level, have it wrong is financing private builds with tax monies thinking a side effect might be more houses means less need, but if the prices are too high, not so.

James Brown

Red_Wake wrote: »

If you admit the Minister for Housing has no scope to solve the problem, why is he the main target for your ire?

You admit DCC, and LA's in general are to blame, but you won't criticise them. Why?

The complete opposite of my view. If he's a mere figurehead why is he in the job?

blanch152

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I offered the example of the housing crisis which is not just confined to Dublin. The numbers maybe less nationwide but the situation exists. As I have already said there is constant criticism of Dublin councils and there is some justification for this. However this criticism never extends to the other councils throughout the state, I could be forgiven for thinking it's bias to what grouping controls each council. Cork was recently mentioned due to purchasing houses but no allocation yet but no ire directed at said councils.

If you think it is bias, please provide an example with links of a council controlled by SF which is doing well and a council controlled by FG which is not. Do you agree with my very preliminary assessment of Fingal? Do you agree that Cork Council is as big a mess as the Dail because it is not controlled by anyone?

Just saying you think other posters are biased isn't enough, actually go out and provide evidence.

FG and FF control Leitrim County Council. Are they doing a better job than the SF/PBP controlled Dublin City Council?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Depends on the rents. Where government, at national level, have it wrong is financing private builds with tax monies thinking a side effect might be more houses means less need, but if the prices are too high, not so.

What do you mean by the government financing private builds of student accommodation with tax money?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Good question.

Dublin is in a housing crisis, and it is particularly bad in the two councils controlled by parties of the left - South Dublin and Dublin City Council.

Outside Dublin, the area most in crisis is Cork, which is controlled by no grouping, a bit like the Dail, and like the Dail, is making a poor effort in addressing the crisis.

Outside of that, there are housing problems in the rest of the State, but it can be argued that calling the housing problem in, say Leitrim or Monaghan, a crisis, is an overstatement.

So, perhaps the most useful place to look is Fingal, where the council is controlled by FF, FG and Labour.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/housing/tackling_the_housing_crisis/

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/housing/we_are_buying_land_and_new_housing/

Even a quick look at their website would show you that they are much more active than their city counterparts.

I have provided a long list of issues with DCC ranging from the Tara St. Station issue to the Phibsboro LAP to the St. Michael's regeneration where the council are repeatedly failing to address the housing crisis through incompetence. If you have a similar list for other councils, please feel free to share. If they are all equally incompetent as you suggest, it should be easy to find out.

Is it possible to criticise the council and not have it derailed to a Eoghan Murphy whatabout? I think it is. It's also possible to criticise the Housing minister without a whatabout on Dublin councilors. Or you could even speak on both. Why the constant attempt to turn every discussion into an issue of sides, so much so that sides are often created, (see Mick Wallace, Paul Murphy, shinners under the bed). Who is defending/supporting the councils? Can we not comment on Murphy without immediately and heatedly changing tack? It gets very boring very quickly and kills the discussion IMO.

Hitman3000

There is a rotating chairpersonship in Cork, FG/FF seem happy with the situation. Although I do know the elected councillors don't have as much power as some would have you believe.
The Dail however is not a mess the Dail now holds the government to account, although I did note a junior FG minister lamenting the loss of the guillotine. Funny it was one of the promises of FG back in 2011 to get rid of the guillotine, however the 2011/2016 used the guillotine more than the FF/Green government did in their tenure.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

What do you mean by the government financing private builds of student accommodation with tax money?

You said it. You tell me. I never said that.
No harm of you addressing my point I suppose.

Idbatterim

here is another angle, FG dont want to sort out Dublins issues and grow to its potential. As it would mean a power shift from rural ireland > dublin. Those who have the power, always want to keep it...

I think the current situation suits far too many people, including the majority of voters who are home owners. Then the td's own property goes up in value, if they have rental properties, they get more from them. It literally is the biggest money for nothing racket, that there is. I can see why they are feigning interest and doing nothing... Its disgusting and they are morally corrupt beyond belief. I honestly reckon, that until there is serious backlash and the hundreds of thousands effected by this shambles, do something about it, the government certainly wont...

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

here is another angle, FG dont want to sort out Dublins issues and grow to its potential. As it would mean a power shift from rural ireland > dublin. Those who have the power, always want to keep it...

I think the current situation suits far too many people, including the majority of voters who are home owners. Then the td's own property goes up in value, if they have rental properties, they get more from them. It literally is the biggest money for nothing racket, that there is. I can see why they are feigning interest and doing nothing... Its disgusting and they are morally corrupt beyond belief. I honestly reckon, that until there is serious backlash and the hundreds of thousands effected by this shambles, do something about it, the government certainly wont...

It's not so sinister. It's about money. There is less private profit in providing social or more affordable housing. That's obviously something FG are actively avoiding doing unless pushed. I can't speak to the councils as they are individual and not controlled by one party.

markodaly

blanch152 wrote: »

This is the exact point in relation to the Tara Street Station project.

The government has put in place minimum densities and raised heights to allow for high-rise development. DCC put it in their development plan.

Yet the current DCC heirarchy have chosen to ignore all of this and turn down the project!!! And not a peep out of the councillors in charge, and not a single bit of criticism from their supporters.

DCC have turned down all types of medium density projects, yet complain about a housing crisis on the other hand. Eoin Murphy to blame here?

Hitman3000

Eoin Murphy minister for housing, what is he actually responsible for?It seems no criticism is allowed of him, so what is the point of his position?

markodaly

Hitman3000 wrote: »

As I have already said there is constant criticism of Dublin councils and there is some justification for this. However this criticism never extends to the other councils throughout the state,

If you look at the homeless numbers, it is clearly a Dublin Centric issue.

Dublin remains the centre of the State’s homelessness problem with 1,352 families accessing homeless services in the region out of a national total of 1,754. There were 2,858 children in such services in the capital in June.

77% of all homeless families are in Dublin.
75% of homeless children are in Dublin.

So, to quote yourself back at you.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

What you believe is irrelevant, verifiable facts is all that matters.

Do you like those apples?

Hitman3000

markodaly wrote:

Do you like those apples?

Grow up, I have acknowledged it's an issue in Dublin bit also exist throughout the country to a lesser extent.

markodaly

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Eoin Murphy minister for housing, what is he actually responsible for?It seems no criticism is allowed of him, so what is the point of his position?

Criticism is allowed if it's justified, but is it right to criticise him when DCC turn down developments?

Wheeliebin30

Why are we never allowed ask any questions as to the personal responsibility of some of these homeless people.

And is it their choices in life that has them there?

Or is it Eoghan Murphy’s fault the 10,000 homeless people are in that situation?????