Pubs to open on Good Friday

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

A Little Pony wrote: »

Irish people need to stop drinking, not being encouraged to drink more. One of the worst problems with the country is the drinking culture.

So many strawmen in two sentences, I don't even know where to start untangling them.

Kimbot

splinter65 wrote: »

My brother was in since 1979. Those were the conditions he started with, and finished with.

Well your brother has told you a bunch of lies because as pointed out to you already the bank time was 30 minutes per pay check not 1 hour and there was no such thing as a day off on December 8th for public servants, this is coming from a long standing public servant

Birdie Num Num

murpho999 wrote: »

Who was discussing that?

The fact remains they did not invent alcohol as claimed by the poster.

The fact remains that I never said that. Go back to my post. The fact also remains that monks were prolific in brewing in Ireland and beyond. Brewing existed thousands of years ago but it was most likely monasteries that brought it to a different level as a craft with flavouring and ingredients.

whisky_galore

weldoninhio wrote: »

And yet, in European terms we are mid table in alcohol consumption and falling year on year.

I’m shook now, don't know whether to believe an internet kook or the cold hard facts.

Ah sure we're grand so.

All the lost shoes, vomit and p1ss on the street I see on Sunday morning must be my imagination so.

seamus

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ah sure we're grand so.

All the lost shoes, vomit and p1ss on the street I see on Sunday morning must be my imagination so.

You'll see them on the streets of every capital in every country on a Sunday morning.

The Irish have an issue with how we drink - we tend to drink a lot in one go - but this is actually compounded by laws like the Good Friday one and closing times which tell us that drinking is actually a shameful, dirty thing, which should only be done in designated places and times.

So we binge drink because the Mrs. Lovejoys of Ireland keep telling us that having a glass of wine with your lunch is what dipsos do, and if you open a bottle of beer as soon as you get home from work, you must be a big dirty alcoholic. And if you drink in front of your kids, well then you're nearly as bad as a paedophile.
Why can't you drink in the darkened corner of a pub like normal people?

Subcomandante Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing i would have done is to extend the Christmas day closure until 12.30pm on Stephens Day to stop the ridiculous nonsense that happened in Donegal of nightclubs opening just after midnight. The workers in that case should have had the right to fully enjoy their day off.

This didn't and couldn't happen. It's illegal already. The ban on christmas day covers the licensing period for that licence day, not the 24 hours of December 25th. The licence for the day, if a normal trading monday would have been 10.30am to 11.30pm. Any trade past 11.30pm would require applying for, being granted, and paying for an extension for their licenced hours for the licence day December 25th, which is not possible to do.

CeilingFly

When is the compensation and redress scheme for Off Licences being set up?

CeilingFly

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

This didn't and couldn't happen. It's illegal already. The ban on christmas day covers the licensing period for that licence day, not the 24 hours of December 25th. The licence for the day, if a normal trading monday would have been 10.30am to 11.30pm. Any trade past 11.30pm would require applying for, being granted, and paying for an extension for their licenced hours for the licence day December 25th, which is not possible to do.

there's always an Irish solution.

the club in Glenties in Donegal applied to open early on St Stephen's day - At exactly 12.01am

Subcomandante Marcos

CeilingFly wrote: »

there's always an Irish solution.

the club in Glenties in Donegal applied to open early on St Stephen's day - At exactly 12.01am

This isn't possible. Whatever judge granted the licence is an utter tool.

drake70

splinter65 wrote: »

My brother was in since 1979. Those were the conditions he started with, and finished with.

Fair enough. I'm in the Civil Service and that wasn't the case for me. Other areas of the Public Service may be different.

vicwatson

Still not going pub but the good thing is if I want to I can. And not be dictated to by the RCC

drake70

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Schools are not off on the 8th.

If a school chooses to close on the 8th, they have to make the day up in the school calendar, usually by coming back a day earlier in August.

I stand corrected. When I was in school, many, many, many moons ago all schools that I knew of closed on that day.

uptherebels

SPDUB wrote: »

The Church never demanded it in the first place . It was the brainchild of some holier than thou TD's .

ya cause a law brought in, in 1927 ireland, banning alcohol on a religious day had nothing to do with the church:rolleyes:

Ragnar Lothbrok

I love my pints and I love going to the pub.

But I'm quite sad the Good Friday ban has been lifted. It's always been a great day for a house party, yet now I know we'll be down the local this Good Friday and it will just become a normal Friday night.

Franz Von Peppercorn

seamus wrote: »

You'll see them on the streets of every capital in every country on a Sunday morning.

The Irish have an issue with how we drink - we tend to drink a lot in one go - but this is actually compounded by laws like the Good Friday one and closing times which tell us that drinking is actually a shameful, dirty thing, which should only be done in designated places and times.

So we binge drink because the Mrs. Lovejoys of Ireland keep telling us that having a glass of wine with your lunch is what dipsos do, and if you open a bottle of beer as soon as you get home from work, you must be a big dirty alcoholic. And if you drink in front of your kids, well then you're nearly as bad as a paedophile.
Why can't you drink in the darkened corner of a pub like normal people?

We really don’t drink because of the licensing laws or because somebody decries a single drink at dinner.

Laws don’t create culture, unless they are prohibitive and then over time ( I.e drink driving in Ireland). Certainly making the law less restrictive isn’t going to change a culture of licentious drinking.

If you go to a country which has signs describing the laws prohibiting drinking the blood of chickens and spitting it on the streets you know two things:

1) the culture is one where people drink the blood of chickens and spit on the street.
2) law makers are trying to change that.

There’s no point libertarians in that country saying that other countries have no such laws and yet those countries have no problems with chicken blood spitting. Different cultures.

In short we can’t change the laws on closing times and expect people to go “oh. More time to drink, I’ll be responsible like the Europeans”. Won’t happen.

Franz Von Peppercorn

uptherebels wrote: »

ya cause a law brought in, in 1927 ireland, banning alcohol on a religious day had nothing to do with the church:rolleyes:

Prohibition was all the rage back then. We banned one day. The US banned all the days.

branie2

I never go to the pub on Good Friday, anyway.

seamus

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Laws don’t create culture, unless they are prohibitive and then over time ( I.e drink driving in Ireland).

So you agree with me then, that Ireland's prohibitive drinking laws which have been in place for a long time, have shaped our drinking culture.

Great.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

splinter65 wrote: »

Yeah, the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth went on long into the night Princess.

Not any more

Mr.H

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

In short we can’t change the laws on closing times and expect people to go “oh. More time to drink, I’ll be responsible like the Europeans”. Won’t happen.

Actually studies have proved that it would change the way people think over time.

In fact the UK have already started to change. They are still a long way from fixing their booze culture but they sure are on the way.

Their is also proof that changing laws and giving more freedom leads to a maturing of the public. Look at countries where they have legalised certain or all drugs and how it has started to change the mentality of the public.

You point is just completely wrong

Birdie Num Num

vicwatson wrote: »

Still not going pub but the good thing is if I want to I can. And not be dictated to by the RCC

I presume you mean the Catholic Church when you say RCC. The 'R' was somewhat of an additive post reformation that suited some. And again it was not dictated by the Church it was Irish law since 1927 that had it's influence in the Church.

Hotblack Desiato

Verpiss dich wrote: »

They have meetups every Sunday.

Hotblack Desiato

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well the fact that one TD described himself as a catholic first and an irishman second shows how big a grip the church had over this country. I was told by a man in his 70s, that in Ireland at one point it was the the GAA, the catholic church, and FF that ruled the country.

Quite right he was too :mad:

It was the Taoiseach of the day, John A. Costello who treasonously described himself as a catholic first and an Irishman second.

At the 1948 general election de Valera was ousted and replaced by a multi-party coalition under Taoiseach John A Costello. This was the government that formally proclaimed the Republic in 1949. One of the new government’s first acts was to send a telegram to the Pope desiring "to repose at the feet of Your Holiness the assurance of our filial loyalty and our devotion to your August Person, as well as our firm resolve to be guided in all our work by the teaching of Christ and to strive for the attainment of social order in Ireland based on Christian principles."

Franz Von Peppercorn

seamus wrote: »

So you agree with me then, that Ireland's prohibitive drinking laws which have been in place for a long time, have shaped our drinking culture.

Great.

I clearly am not agreeing with you. Even with your out of context text it’s clear I meant that prohibitive laws can affect the culture over time by reducing the instances of drink driving. You are claiming the opposite. That prohibitive laws cause a culture of drinking.

However you know that since there was more text, wasn’t there?

Hotblack Desiato

Hoboo wrote: »

They didn't invent education or healthcare either, but religious orders provided both and continue to do so at levels the state would never have been able to provide on its own.

Not this nonsense again.

Education has been state funded since the mid 19th century. That's why they're called 'National Schools'.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mr.H wrote: »

Actually studies have proved that it would change the way people think over time.

In fact the UK have already started to change. They are still a long way from fixing their booze culture but they sure are on the way.

Their is also proof that changing laws and giving more freedom leads to a maturing of the public. Look at countries where they have legalised certain or all drugs and how it has started to change the mentality of the public.

You point is just completely wrong

Source?

Correlation isn’t causation. England’s demographics are changing and that could be the reason, if true. Ireland liberalised in 2000 and not much changed.

Hotblack Desiato

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I presume you mean the Catholic Church when you say RCC. The 'R' was somewhat of an additive post reformation that suited some.

There's nothing wrong with describing the Catholic Church based in Rome as the RCC. Other non-Roman churches are nonetheless Catholic. Have a look at the Church of Ireland website, they describe themselves as 'Catholic and Reformed'. This means that Protestants are also Catholics, just not Roman Catholics!

And again it was not dictated by the Church it was Irish law since 1927 that had it's influence in the Church.

Of course it wasn't dictated by them, we didn't live in a theocracy but in a democracy with a hell of a lot of theocratic features. John Charles McQuaid said jump, and successive taoisigh said how high.

jimgoose

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with describing the Catholic Church based in Rome as the RCC. Other non-Roman churches are nonetheless Catholic. Have a look at the Church of Ireland website, they describe themselves as 'Catholic and Reformed'. This means that Protestants are also Catholics, just not Roman Catholics!...

Correct. That blows a lot of little minds when they find it out. :pac::pac::pac:

weldoninhio

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I clearly am not agreeing with you. Even with your out of context text it’s clear I meant that prohibitive laws can affect the culture over time by reducing the instances of drink driving. You are claiming the opposite. That prohibitive laws cause a culture of drinking.

However you know that since there was more text, wasn’t there?

Such as early closing times which force people to get as much alcohol into themselves as possible before being sent home??

Birdie Num Num

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Of course it wasn't dictated by them, we didn't live in a theocracy but in a democracy with a hell of a lot of theocratic features. John Charles McQuaid said jump, and successive taoisigh said how high.

Nothing to do with the earlier legislation in 1927.

murpho999

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I presume you mean the Catholic Church when you say RCC. The 'R' was somewhat of an additive post reformation that suited some. And again it was not dictated by the Church it was Irish law since 1927 that had it's influence in the Church.

Thanks for the clarification, I thought it was the Roscommon County Council that was being held responsible for the Good Friday alcohol ban.

Mr.H

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Source?

Correlation isn’t causation. England’s demographics are changing and that could be the reason, if true. Ireland liberalised in 2000 and not much changed.

It is not changing any differently to how ours is.

This is a quote from 2015 (10 years after the bill was passed)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11617185/24-hour-drinking-was-best-thing-Labour-ever-did-says-report.html

"Alcohol consumption per person has fallen by 17 per cent since pubs and clubs were allowed to serve through the night, it said - the largest decline since the Thirties. Fewer under-45s are binge drinking and violent crime is down 40 per cent."


Now I am not saying it will solve everything or anything in fact. But society more independence, allows them to mature.

whisky_galore

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Of course it wasn't dictated by them, we didn't live in a theocracy but in a democracy with a hell of a lot of theocratic features. John Charles McQuaid said jump, and successive taoisigh said how high.

Back in the days of McQuaid, most people wouldn't have had a problem with that. An anti clerical political candidate wouldn't have had a hope of being elected, such was the way of things.

The Good Friday ban up until recently was a non-issue, a mild inconvenience for people, not a world-ending 'Jaysus lads the tourist industry is going to be fcuked over this single issue!!' Of course this is a very easy fix for govt; bread booze and circuses.

Hotblack Desiato

weldoninhio wrote: »

Such as early closing times which force people to get as much alcohol into themselves as possible before being sent home??

The six o'clock swill

Mr.H

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Nothing to do with the earlier legislation in 1927.

If the TD's at the time of passing the law were in any way influenced by the RCC then yes the law itself was influenced.

Since they clearly were influenced, the legislation is definitely the work of the church.

Irish law and society was ruled by the church up until the 80's. They controlled schools religion policing government and did what ever they wanted to keep us under their thumb.

"The elasticity of the Dáil in that regard became obvious in 1929 when special legislation provided for extended Sunday opening hours to mark the centenary of Catholic Emancipation."
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/good-friday-lifting-the-alcohol-ban-1.3047535

Hotblack Desiato

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Nothing to do with the earlier legislation in 1927.

The near-theocracy didn't start with McQuaid, he's just a well-documented example of it who is still within the living memory of some (not me, thankfully.)

The_Valeyard

Mr.H wrote: »

If the TD's at the time of passing the law were in any way influenced by the RCC then yes the law itself was influenced.

Since they clearly were influenced, the legislation is definitely the work of the church.

Irish law and society was ruled by the church up until the 80's. They controlled schools religion policing government and did what ever they wanted to keep us under their thumb.

"The elasticity of the Dáil in that regard became obvious in 1929 when special legislation provided for extended Sunday opening hours to mark the centenary of Catholic Emancipation."
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/good-friday-lifting-the-alcohol-ban-1.3047535

Thought i came in from the Church of Ireland and not the RCC

Mr.H

whisky_galore wrote: »

Good Friday ban up until recently was a non-issue, a mild inconvenience for people, not a world-ending 'Jaysus lads the tourist industry is going to be fcuked over this single issue!!' Of course this is a very easy fix for govt; bread booze and circuses.

While it was not world ending, why should we have to put up with it?

Why should I have to adhere to a law that was very very clearly made to stop me drinking on a religious day? I am not religious so why should I have to conform?

Dont drink if you dont want to but for me it is just another Friday and if I go to the pub it will be only because I am off the next day and because it is my Birthday weekend this year. If I so happen to be working, I wont be going out.

Why should any religion dictate when I can and cant go out.

@ off for all that it has done to us.

Mr.H

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Thought i came in from the Church of Ireland and not the RCC

In Ireland most of us have been raised Roman Catholics. We have been thought in Roman Catholic schools. Treated in Roman Catholic hospitals and dictated to by the Roman Catholic church.

The Church of Ireland is a protestant religion.

whisky_galore

Mr.H wrote: »

While it was not world ending, why should we have to put up with it?

Why should I have to adhere to a law that was very very clearly made to stop me drinking on a religious day? I am not religious so why should I have to conform?

Dont drink if you dont want to but for me it is just another Friday and if I go to the pub it will be only because I am off the next day and because it is my Birthday weekend this year. If I so happen to be working, I wont be going out.

Why should any religion dictate when I can and cant go out.

@ off for all that it has done to us.

So you would have no issue with pubs opening on Xmas Day?

Birdie Num Num

murpho999 wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification, I thought it was the Roscommon County Council that was being held responsible for the Good Friday alcohol ban.

Along with 'R' Revenue and the law they are more relevant to licensing the sale of alcohol than the Catholic Church.

Mr.H

whisky_galore wrote: »

So you would have no issue with pubs opening on Xmas Day?

Absolutely none.

If I own a bar I should be able to open if I want to. I don think that employers should be fair on staff and ask people if they want to work rather than force (on Christmas day anyway) but I see no reason why any business should be forced to shut.

I know shops that are open on Christmas day. Call Centers. Emergency services work. Taxi drivers work. Why cant anyone else?

We live in a country that has many cultures living in it. Not everyone celebrates Christmas. Yet they are forced to take the day off?

daheff

one question

Now that we can buy drink on good friday, does it mean we dont have to eat fish too (cos i fcking hate fish)??

murpho999

whisky_galore wrote: »

So you would have no issue with pubs opening on Xmas Day?

Why should this be an issue.

People should be free to make choices.

I think if the law was loosened that the majority of pubs would not be open anyway.
Look how money pubs close early on Christmas Eve.

An awful lot of pubs don't open on Stephen's Day or open for restricted hours.

El Weirdo

daheff wrote: »

one question

Now that we can buy drink on good friday, does it mean we dont have to eat fish too (cos i fcking hate fish)??

In case you're not joking, there is no law preventing you from eating meat on Good Friday.

daheff

Mr.H wrote: »

We live in a country that has many cultures living in it. Not everyone celebrates Christmas. Yet they are forced to take the day off?

People are also forced to take other bank holidays off....but i dont hear the non-religious types complaining over that.


its a bank holiday because a large proportion of the population celebrate a religious feast. Its not just for those who celebrate the feast day.

If you don't want paid days off then I really dont know.

murpho999

daheff wrote: »

one question

Now that we can buy drink on good friday, does it mean we dont have to eat fish too (cos i fcking hate fish)??

If you're following Catholic doctrine then you're supposed to abstain from alcohol and fast from meat. It used to be full fasting but apparently God has modernised .

So the issue is that the state has made a law secular and that does not change the doctrine of a religion and its followers which is how it should be.

So if you're religious you still can't drink this Good Friday but the state is not stopping you from doing so.

seamus

Mr.H wrote: »

Absolutely none.

If I own a bar I should be able to open if I want to. I don think that employers should be fair on staff and ask people if they want to work rather than force (on Christmas day anyway) but I see no reason why any business should be forced to shut.

I know shops that are open on Christmas day. Call Centers. Emergency services work. Taxi drivers work. Why cant anyone else?

We live in a country that has many cultures living in it. Not everyone celebrates Christmas. Yet they are forced to take the day off?

This.

The notion that bar staff need special protection from unscrupulous employers is ridiculous.

If anything, there are plenty of families in this country who would rather certain members of their family pissed off to the pub on Xmas day rather than hang around the house getting drunk.

splinter65

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well your brother has told you a bunch of lies because as pointed out to you already the bank time was 30 minutes per pay check not 1 hour and there was no such thing as a day off on December 8th for public servants, this is coming from a long standing public servant

Ok so I’m going to take the word of some stranger on the Internet over my own brother.
He obviously had a better shop steward than you, kept their terms and conditions, so what?

splinter65

daheff wrote: »

one question

Now that we can buy drink on good friday, does it mean we dont have to eat fish too (cos i fcking hate fish)??

No you absolutely have to continue eating fish, not only on Good Friday but every Friday.
It’s the law of the land and if your spotted in the supermarket buying steak or sneaking into Macdonalds you’ll be arrested and might go down for a nice long stretch.