Dublin Bus Changes to Improve City Center Journeys

thomasj

Sorry here it is

fritzelly

thomasj wrote: »

Sorry here it is

Mind the door there

Whatever happened to buses saying no more we're full and whatever happened to people being told to move down the bus - annoys the hell outta me when I'm trying to get off and everyone is crowding the front of the bus

thomasj

fritzelly wrote:

Mind the door there

Haha every time the bus stopped had to move over to the ticket machine

thomasj

fritzelly wrote:

Whatever happened to buses saying no more we're full and whatever happened to people being told to move down the bus - annoys the hell outta me when I'm trying to get off and everyone is crowding the front of the bus

The type of bus I was on (the large VT buses) doesn't give you much space to do that

thomasj

fritzelly wrote:

Whatever happened to buses saying no more we're full and whatever happened to people being told to move down the bus - annoys the hell outta me when I'm trying to get off and everyone is crowding the front of the bus

When buses are only running every 20 minutes drivers do their best to get everyone on. It's not always possible

fritzelly

thomasj wrote: »

When buses are only running every 20 minutes drivers do their best to get everyone on. It's not always possible

The 49/54 in the evenings is so crammed they are standing on the stairs and almost impossible to get off unless you're going well out of town.
Surely that is dangerous? Rhetorical question

thomasj

fritzelly wrote:

The 49/54 in the evenings is so crammed they are standing on the stairs and almost impossible to get off unless you're going well out of town. Surely that is dangerous? Rhetorical question

It's a fair point but the other option would be standing at the bus stop for another 20 minutes so j understand why people do it .

In fairness, in my case I've never been on a bus where the driver has let people stand on the stairs or upstairs. It's a no no!

It's always crammed downstairs though

dashcamdanny

These leaflets have popped up all over the bus garage. With some interesting views on saving the bus service. No idea who put there there.

http://www.acratu.com/assets/quay-bus-flow-2018.pdf

http://www.acratu.com/assets/civic-plaza-solution.pdf

MJohnston

dashcamdanny wrote: »

These leaflets have popped up all over the bus garage. With some interesting views on saving the bus service. No idea who put there there.

http://www.acratu.com/assets/quay-bus-flow-2018.pdf

http://www.acratu.com/assets/civic-plaza-solution.pdf

Surely the clue is in the URLs? I mean, those aren't scanned images, those are the original PDFs (complete with vectorised text), so this "ACRA" group are obviously the authors.

dashcamdanny

MJohnston wrote: »

Surely the clue is in the URLs? I mean, those aren't scanned images, those are the original PDFs (complete with vectorised text), so this "ACRA" group are obviously the authors.

Well, what I was really thinking was who in our garage put them there. Never heard of ACRA before I seen the leaflets.

Shedite27

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Well, what I was really thinking was who in our garage put them there. Never heard of ACRA before I seen the leaflets.

Defined in one of the docs as "Administration of Combined Residence Association"

StreetLight

dashcamdanny wrote: »

These leaflets have popped up all over the bus garage. With some interesting views on saving the bus service. No idea who put there there.

http://www.acratu.com/assets/quay-bus-flow-2018.pdf

http://www.acratu.com/assets/civic-plaza-solution.pdf

Ex-Dublin Bus driver Tom Newton. He's involved with ACRA.

dashcamdanny

Contra flow ideas seem solid IMO. As does his plaza ideas.

Phil.x

thomasj wrote: »

It's a fair point but the other option would be standing at the bus stop for another 20 minutes so j understand why people do it .

In fairness, in my case I've never been on a bus where the driver has let people stand on the stairs or upstairs. It's a no no!

It's always crammed downstairs though

This is no normal service since the luas.

Phil.x

dashcamdanny wrote: »

These leaflets have popped up all over the bus garage. With some interesting views on saving the bus service. No idea who put there there.

http://www.acratu.com/assets/quay-bus-flow-2018.pdf

http://www.acratu.com/assets/civic-plaza-solution.pdf

I think the new pedestrian area in the link looks bigger than the actual physical space there, it's not a big area.

trellheim

DB since BXD opening has been absolute pants in the core

I cannot see any way of improving it unless we pull BXD which wont happen

Removing Cars wont do it , or taxis or even both

Cars off Bachelors is lipstick on a pig it wont fix it but its D'Olier and College St thats the problem and thats all buses and LUAS

Stephen15

The problem in my opinion is not College Green it's the lack of alternative routes to College Green aren't either heavily congested by cars and taxis or going to leave passengers miles from their destination in the city centre.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

DB since BXD opening has been absolute pants in the core

I cannot see any way of improving it unless we pull BXD which wont happen

Removing Cars wont do it , or taxis or even both

Cars off Bachelors is lipstick on a pig it wont fix it but its D'Olier and College St thats the problem and thats all buses and LUAS

Removing cars off Bachelor's Walk, Burgh Quay, Eden Quay, and the other quay is not about making the buses flow more smoothly through College Green, it's about opening up alternative routes for those buses. Do that, and you can easily route buses via Tara Street and Parliament Street (which could and should be made two way), and the amount of cars in areas around the banned zones would naturally decrease too as they shift further out.

Spanish Eyes

Is it true that taxis will be banned going South on CG on 12th March in the mornings? Haven't heard much about it. Maybe was just a rumour.

The ACRA proposals should be looked at. Doesn't matter about the origin, it suggests a solution of sorts which no one else has to date apart from banning this and that.

But will the suggestions be examined I wonder?

trellheim

anyone got links to the council minutes

BowSideChamp

dashcamdanny wrote: »

These leaflets have popped up all over the bus garage. With some interesting views on saving the bus service. No idea who put there there.

http://www.acratu.com/assets/quay-bus-flow-2018.pdf

http://www.acratu.com/assets/civic-plaza-solution.pdf

The description and diagrams are confusing. Just on the contra-flow, the footpath along the Quays are too narrow for bus stops. You could hardly fit woman walking with a pram and people waiting on a bus. Granted it would provide the opportunity to widen the path and clear out the car parking spaces.

cython

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is it true that taxis will be banned going South on CG on 12th March in the mornings? Haven't heard much about it. Maybe was just a rumour.

The ACRA proposals should be looked at. Doesn't matter about the origin, it suggests a solution of sorts which no one else has to date apart from banning this and that.

But will the suggestions be examined I wonder?

Seems to be: https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/taxis-college-green-ban-14372107 (most recent article on it I could find, others are from Feb). Can see it being a mess and lots of ignorance pleaded if they don't publicise it a bit more between now and Monday morning.

punisher5112

Sure there are no signs on O'Connell bridge to say no right turn onto Eden quay

Last Stop

In my opinion, there seems to be 2 different issues at play around college green.
1. The Pearse St, College St. junction where you have several lanes merging together to try and fit into 1 going down college green.
2. The buses turning right at college green towards Dame St. The filter lane isn't long enough to handle them.
It's interesting to note that both of these areas were changed from the design drawings and the new cycle lane was added.
Would a contra flow on D'Olier st help matters?
If they could add an extra lane at the trinity luas stop junction (ie. split buses going up Grafton and Dame), it would improve matters significantly. Space would be tight but it would be possible. I would also be in favour of moving all traffic to the BOI side of college green and creating a new plaza on the other side. This would be the best of both worlds scenario where you still have a plaza but you also have buses travelling through college green. Also because the distance the buses going to Dame st. would have to travel is reduced, it could be accommodated in 1 traffic cycle, removing the need for the filter lane.

Ernest

Social Democrats now opposing these crazy plan to make a plaza in the middle of one of the busiest traffic junctions in Dublin.

http://www.thejournal.ie/college-green-4-3895429-Mar2018/

dashcamdanny

Took 25 mins to get from one end of Pearse St bus gate to the other yesterday.

Result was one outward lap being cancelled .
Lots of cold folk waiting for another 20 min on top of the original wait for another bus that might also not arrive.

They need to be taking action on this crap now.
People should be taking to the street and protesting about this complete and otter disaster brought on by high payed designers.

hmmm

Stopping taxis heading South will only help the LUAS. It does nothing for buses getting caught on the North Quays and O'Connell Street, and does nothing for the Red Line LUAS.

Everything is about the Green line LUAS from what I can see. Get onto your politicians if you don't like it.

MJohnston

hmmm wrote: »

Stopping taxis heading South will only help the LUAS. It does nothing for buses getting caught on the North Quays and O'Connell Street, and does nothing for the Red Line LUAS.

Everything is about the Green line LUAS from what I can see. Get onto your politicians if you don't like it.

It'll definitely help buses heading through College Green.

hmmm

MJohnston wrote: »

It'll definitely help buses heading through College Green.

How?

donvito99

hmmm wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

It'll definitely help buses heading through College Green.

How?

Taxis occupying the right filter west onto Dame st for one.

MJohnston

hmmm wrote: »

How?

Because taxis heading south through College Green are filling up the right turn to Dame Street filter lane (which isn't that big), which blocks both trams but also buses that are heading both onto Dame Street, but also straight onto Grafton/Nassau Street.

monument

donvito99 wrote: »

Another way to look at this fiasco.

Please don't fix posts. It's against the rules as it causes confusion / annoyance etc.

-- moderator

AlekSmart

BowSideChamp wrote: »

The description and diagrams are confusing. Just on the contra-flow, the footpath along the Quays are too narrow for bus stops. You could hardly fit woman walking with a pram and people waiting on a bus. Granted it would provide the opportunity to widen the path and clear out the car parking spaces.

Imaginative use of the "Boardwalk" principle would go a great way towards solving this issue.

The benefits of the Tom Newton proposal would most assuredly be in favour of Bus Passengers,but the knock-on effects would be felt across the modes.

Eliminating those ultra problematic bus right-turns is enough of itself to merit a thorough inspection of this proposal.

AlekSmart

MJohnston wrote: »

Because taxis heading south through College Green are filling up the right turn to Dame Street filter lane (which isn't that big), which blocks both trams but also buses that are heading both onto Dame Street, but also straight onto Grafton/Nassau Street.

In the short-term,and assuming the edge-tinkering with morning Taxi's will not achieve a lot,some consideration should be given to allowing buses to travel on the Southbound Luas line along the College Wall...as they do on Dawson Street.

Ben D Bus

AlekSmart wrote: »

Imaginative use of the "Boardwalk" principle would go a great way towards solving this issue.

The benefits of the Tom Newton proposal would most assuredly be in favour of Bus Passengers,but the knock-on effects would be felt across the modes.

Eliminating those ultra problematic bus right-turns is enough of itself to merit a thorough inspection of this proposal.

I like the contra-flow proposal and certainly think it's worthy of consideration. The only issue, if I read it correctly, is that it eliminates all practical possibility of buses overtaking each other? That's assuming high traffic volumes travelling in the opposing direction.

I'll be honest and say reopening Suffolk St to vehicular traffic - in any direction - would be a retrograde step. Even in it's current form it's a vastly better street (for the people actually using it, rather than passing through it) than it was before being closed off. I also remember many contributors to this board pointing out just how dangerous it used to be in it's old guise.

Parliament St and Tara St are better solutions than Suffolk St.

I also expect Bus Connects to result in many more tangential routes which will skirt the core but not actually pass through it. So many of the current issues will cease to be problems then anyway.

loyatemu

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I also expect Bus Connects to result in many more tangential routes which will skirt the core but not actually pass through it. So many of the current issues will cease to be problems then anyway.

by all accounts the Luas Cross-City trams are not that busy (even with the service not running at full capacity) - it would make sense for more bus routes to feed into the Luas at SSG and Parnell Sq rather than proceeding through CG. I assume that's one of the things Bus Connects will look at.

cherryghost

Woeful commute this morning. Was 20 minutes later than I was last week, which was already late as it was.

Sierra Oscar

cherryghost wrote: »

Woeful commute this morning. Was 20 minutes later than I was last week, which was already late as it was.

Indeed, it was terrible this morning and the quays were all backed up.

fritzelly

How is CG now that taxis are banned
Passing by the other way this morning and saw a Garda there with flashing bike and didn't seem to notice any taxis

Carlos Orange

loyatemu wrote: »

by all accounts the Luas Cross-City trams are not that busy (even with the service not running at full capacity)

Wouldn't really surprise me. I live and work beside luas stops but the 7 stop trip isn't even close to competitive with walking, even before factoring in that you can be waiting 15 to 20 minutes for a luas even at peak times.

hmmm

fritzelly wrote: »

How is CG now that taxis are banned
Passing by the other way this morning and saw a Garda there with flashing bike and didn't seem to notice any taxis

Buses this week have been taking 30-45 minutes to get from Heuston to Batchelor's Walk. Most people now get off the bus there, I think a lot of commuters have given up on being able to get across the city by bus now.

Apparently the LUAS green line has been in trouble this week also.

This all started the day Luas Cross City was put live, I do not believe for a minute that the cause of this chaos (and it is chaos) was a general increase in passenger numbers. The Cross City LUAS are half empty every time I see them.

The only change on the horizon is the increased frequency of bigger trams, which will make things even worse.

Ben D Bus

I've taken the 40 in from the Inchicore side the last 2 days. I've sailed through College green both times at just after 8am. Even with this morning's weather. I did see a Garda Bike at College St this morning alright.

fritzelly

Taxis going thru CG just now, no garda...

Sierra Oscar

The traffic on the North Quays is shockingly bad at the moment. The 38 / 39 / 70 routes are all backed up as far back as the Navan Road.

Hurrache

And the Luas is a **** storm this morning (again) too. Pretty bad for the buses to be backed up to the Navan Road, can they make up time in the bus lane when they get to Stoneybatter?

Sierra Oscar

Hurrache wrote: »

And the Luas is a **** storm this morning (again) too. Pretty bad for the buses to be backed up to the Navan Road, can they make up time in the bus lane when they get to Stoneybatter?

They’re crawling along trying to reach the bus lane, but it’s not much better once they do make it. Crawling up the quays. I’m guessing it’s the Luas crossings on O’Connell Bridge. Has the frequency increased?

There’s a convoy of 39’s heading along the quays now as they all backed up together on the Navan Road. It’s atrocious, one of the worst mornings for reliability that I’ve ever experienced.

hmmm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They’re crawling along trying to reach the bus lane, but it’s not much better once they do make it. Crawling up the quays. I’m guessing it’s the Luas crossings on O’Connell Bridge. Has the frequency increased?

There was a LUAS blocked or broken down on Westmoreland earlier blocking all Southbound traffic around College Green.

A queuing Southbound LUAS then moved into the junction opposite Trinity, even though it clearly wasn't going to be able to clear it, and that's blocked Northbound traffic as well.

It's nuts.

Lord Glentoran

psinno wrote: »

Wouldn't really surprise me. I live and work beside luas stops but the 7 stop trip isn't even close to competitive with walking, even before factoring in that you can be waiting 15 to 20 minutes for a luas even at peak times.

Schrodinger’s Luas - simultaneously empty and too full for passengers to get on :pac:

thomasj

I've never seen it as bad down the old cabra road/Prussia street/manor street area as I did this morning , even during the Celtic tiger.

Nearly 10 minutes approaching Hanlon's corner , we sat through 3 light changes (nowhere to move ahead), another few minutes between Prussia street and manor street .

We got stuck again at the four courts , I gave up and got off and walked fast/ran to get into work on time

thomasj

I tweeted aa roadwatch earlier to see did they get any reports , they said they heard nothing