Holiday home overholding

beertons

The onus must surely be on the booking company here.

blondeonblonde

Really sorry to hear about your situation OP. The law seems to be totally skewed in favour of these degenerates.

See quote from Irish examiner article below:

""Squatters’ rights are not easily achieved. It’s not just a matter of moving onto somebody else’s property and staying put for 12 years. “The Latin phrase nec clam, nec vi, nec precario (neither secretly, nor by force, nor with permission) comes into play,” explains O’Leary. “Essentially the squatter must openly use and refuse to vacate the property. His behaviour has to be the equivalent of thumbing his nose at the owner.

“If, during the period of occupation, he accesses the property secretly or under cover of darkness, or if admits that it doesn’t belong to him, or acknowledges that the owner has title, no court will allow him to keep it.”

Can the gardaí help? “Not usually; as trespass is not a criminal matter. But they should of course be called, if an individual trying to repossess property is chased away by someone wielding a pitchfork.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/how-to-keep-squatters-out-of-your-home-276299.html

garhjw

If the gardai won't get involved, physically remove the trespassers from your property. Defend your property and your rights. They will destroy the place.

April 73

Contact Pavee Point & tell them you will be going to Joe Duffy on Monday & contacting national journalists with an interest in traveller stories to have this story in the public domain, about how this family are bringing the whole traveller name into disrepute.
Google for journalists who have written about Pavee Point/travellers & mention their names. Show you have done your research.

bigpink

How is someone legally classed as a traveller actually?

Ray Pissed

Get in contact with this guy too. He preaches enough about respect for travellers etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/i-am-a-traveller-not-a-knacker-1.2577202

Lumen

I approached a traveller support group about a particular issue (the details of which aren't similar enough to be useful here) and found them great to deal with.

The experience was a bit intimidating though, mostly due to the massive security employed at their offices.

bigpink

Lumen wrote: »

I approached a traveller support group about a particular issue (the details of which aren't similar enough to be useful here) and found them great to deal with.

The experience was a bit intimidating though, mostly due to the massive security employed at their offices.

Pavee Points HQ?

James 007

bigpink wrote: »

How is someone legally classed as a traveller actually?

One caravan + Hiace van + 4 kids or greater + wife/girlfriend + traveller accent + horses, but not at all times + urge to find scrap metal + saying 'Boss' in sentances

Lumen

bigpink wrote: »

Pavee Points HQ?

Nope, outside Dublin.

GarIT

You can call the gardai and make a threat and they will be down straight away. Park outside/near the property and call the emergency line and tell them you are armed and going into the house to fight them in 15mins the Gardaí will be there in less than 15mins.

I've heard of a different but similar licencee situation resolved by calling a local councelor with a nationalist background who visited the propery peacefully with a few heavy friends and peacefully convinced them to leave, but that situation involved the overholding person being in someone's home.

HONKEY TONK

How is it a civil matter

13.—(1) It shall be an offence for a person, without reasonable excuse, to trespass on any building or the curtilage thereof in such a manner as causes or is likely to cause fear in another person.

(2) (a) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a place to which subsection (1) relates and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of that subsection, then the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:

(i) desist from acting in such a manner, and

(ii) leave immediately the vicinity of the place concerned in a peaceable or orderly manner.

(b) It shall be an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with a direction given by a member of the Garda Síochána under this section.

(3) (a) A person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both.

(b) A person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (2) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

DoozerT6

April 73 wrote: »

Contact Pavee Point & tell them you will be going to Joe Duffy on Monday & contacting national journalists with an interest in traveller stories to have this story in the public domain, about how this family are bringing the whole traveller name into disrepute.
Google for journalists who have written about Pavee Point/travellers & mention their names. Show you have done your research.

This. Publicise your situation in the press locally and nationally. Contact RTE news too. Make this VERY uncomfortable for your 'guests' in terms of negative traveller publicity. Can you get audio proof from your network of the phone call where they said they were not leaving?

Contact your insurance company NOW, and tell them the situation. Ensure that you are covered for any damage incurred while they are still there (including the total loss of the property due to, for example, a fire - let's be practical here) so at least you won't be out of pocket completely when this sorry situation is over. Personally, I know what my own suggestion would be but I would get a lifetime ban from Boards for expressing it here.

As suggested above, cut all utilities today.

If you still have their credit card details, and the card hasn't been cancelled yet, how about charging them an exceptionally high rate of rent while they overhold, payable in full, in advance? How quickly can something like that be organised?

I would also suggest that in future, if you let the place again, that you stipulate very clearly in your T&C's that anybody who overstays will be charged TRIPLE the daily rate, per day, until they vacate.

TheChizler

The problem is how to argue they're overstaying in a manner causing fear in the OP. It's a family who had legitimately rented the place refusing to leave at the end of the agreement, it's not like they broke in to the OP's house in the middle of the night.

If they're being reasonable about it (by reasonable I mean not shouting/threatening violence, clearly they're being very unreasonable in normal terms) then I don't see how it's a criminal matter unfortunately.

Lying to the guards telling them your house is being burgled and them turning up to find a family with three kids living there is unlikely do put you in the Gardaí's good books either.

It's a sh***y situation. Maybe ask to talk to the superintendent who might do you a favour? Probably worth contacting a solicitor.

Maybe if you were feeling brave you could turn up and start removing their stuff in a calm manner. If they start threatening violence it then becomes a criminal manner, obviously that's a big risk too.

PhoenixParker

Look into your insurance too, whatever policies you have. They may include legal cover for solicitors fees.

jimmycrackcorm

garhjw wrote:

If the gardai won't get involved, physically remove the trespassers from your property. Defend your property and your rights. They will destroy the place.

They will if you are physically present, trying to tennis the doors and ring to say they are threatening you and being generally violent.

TheChizler

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

They will if you are physically present, trying to tennis the doors and ring to say they are threatening you and being generally violent.

And if they arrive and the trespassers are calm and dispute what the OP is saying?

mrs.doubt.fire

TheChizler wrote: »

And if they arrive and the trespassers are calm and dispute what the OP is saying?

They are travelers, they will lie regardless.

mrs.doubt.fire

The Gardai wont remove them unless they have done some serious damage, not just some damage but serious damage to the property. The Gardai have to remove them then. I know coz I was in a similar situation with travelers a few years ago, thankfully they didnt cause any damage to my property but the Gardai left and I had to remove them my self.

I always say...I'll do it the legal way first and if that dont work...then I'll do it my way. Funny thou...my way always seems to be more effective and I get the job done a hell of a lot faster lol My husband always says...oh PLEASE dont do it your way!! I just smile at him and say...hold my beer and watch this!!

johnnyskeleton

rex-x wrote: »

The Gardai have stated its a civil matter and they wont intervene.

Could you suggest to the gardai that it was obtaining services by deception and therefore a criminal matter?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/7/enacted/en/html#sec7

4ensic15

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Could you suggest to the gardai that it was obtaining services by deception and therefore a criminal matter?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/7/enacted/en/html#sec7

The DPP has a policy of not prosecuting quasi civil offences. I know of one case where the DPP refuse to prosecute in a blackmail case on the grounds it was a civil matter. The victim took a private prosecution and obtained a conviction.

mrslancaster

The_Conductor wrote: »

First port of call- is the agency through whom the letting was managed.
They *need* to be made aware of the situation- and I would also explore whether you have a case against them.
As for the current intruders (and I'm not entirely sure how they wouldn't be classified as 'intruders')- you need proper legal advice on an appropriate course of action.

Company through whom the letting was made- first port of call........

Seriously, what could the letting company do? The house was booked through them so aren't they just a broker or agent for the owner?

Surely the guards have to do something to help the owner

It seems where property is concerned, some can break the law with no repercussions & the owner can do nothing... mad country...

AtticusFinch86

Petrol bomb the house. And I'm only half joking when I say that. They sound like absolute scum of the earth. I wonder would it be worth contacting a Traveller lobby (or something similar) and getting them involved. Could be worth threatening to go to the media to coax some sort of action.

It's hard to know what to do, even if you co-operate they're still likely to damage the property or worse

0ph0rce0

Can I walk into someone's house while the door is open and say I'm not leaving and head up to bed? Or well let's say I throw my mate 20 quid to stay over a night and don't leave. Or does it have to begin with some sort of contract?

If they called the guards would they not come as it's a civil matter?

Serious question.

rex-x

Thanks for the suggestions! Physically removing them is not a problem but clearly I'd rather go down a more official route if possible.
We tried to get the electricity cut off but was told it will be April as there is notice required to be given. Water is currently off but they don't seem bothered so far. We have a 24/7 watch in the house in case they leave for even a minute.

Panjandrums

This post has been deleted.

listermint

I'd arrive at the door and enter with the spare key with every single male relative you have. Then phone the guards and tell them things are about to kick off.

They'll be gone quick smart.

They're trying it on because they are testing the waters.
No doubt they've done it before and will do it again.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Panjandrums wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This.

x4

893bet

listermint wrote: »

I'd arrive at the door and enter with the spare key with every single male relative you have. Then phone the guards and tell them things are about to kick off.

They'll be gone quick smart.

They're trying it on because they are testing the waters.
No doubt they've done it before and will do it again.

This is not the worst idea.

What ever you do, do it fast.

Suggest buying ten mice/rats and popping them in the letter box. They might run out!

rex-x

Have an update: They were unaware that we were watching 24/7 and left to a car they had hidden down the road so we went to make entry and they had changed all our locks.... So we kicked in the front door and are currently bagging their stuff and awaiting their return whilst changing the locks again.... There is a small dog they brought who is on his way to the pound. Thankfully other than the front door the house is undamaged so far.