Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

Andrew Beef

Genuine question...how in God’s name can a professional footballer like Antonio Valencia not cross a ball?

It’s the equivalent of a professional golfer not being able to hit a green with a 9 iron.

Very strange.

I sometimes think of the stories of Bobby Charlton working on his weaker foot against the wall outside Old Trafford and wonder whether the modern players are just lazy; surely Antonio Valencia’s crossing would improve immeasurably if he spent two hours every day for a month working on it? My sense though is that modern players don’t bother their hole.

Dustin Johnson’s wedge play was muck; then he spent a year working on it almost non-stop and now he’s as good as anyone. I do believe it’s that simple.

jayo26

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Genuine question...how in God’s name can a professional footballer like Antonio Valencia not cross a ball?

It’s the equivalent of a professional golfer not being able to hit a green with a 9 iron.

Very strange.

Been asking that for 3 years surely you can practice crossing it has to imrove somewhat or is it decision making in the actual game he decided it go along the ground instead of a decent cross.

limnam

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Genuine question...how in God’s name can a professional footballer like Antonio Valencia not cross a ball?

It’s the equivalent of a professional golfer not being able to hit a green with a 9 iron.

Very strange.

Crossing success rate is surprisingly low across the board.

I might be mis remembering but always felt Giggs was shiote at crossing the ball.

From 2016

The mighty Man city spent 100 mil on wide players only 13 per cent of city's crosses were successful

Ninthlife

jayo26 wrote: »

Been asking that for 3 years surely you can practice crossing it has to imrove somewhat or is it decision making in the actual game he decided it go along the ground instead of a decent cross.

A top team like United and we have converted former wingers at left back and right back.

Valencia has done very well apart from his inability to cross. I personally dont like Young either as a left back or winger.

You look at certain parts of the team and there is still alot of investment needed

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

I like souness as a pundit.

Just turns out what he was saying all along was true and how we could do like a player like him in the team now

Ah here, at best of times I have my suspicions but if any United fan can look at Souness and not realise he's an utter ABU whose does nothing but moan and bitch about everything, and would be doing so even if we were walking the league, then yeah, never ask me to take you seriously again....

Andrew Beef

Jonny Wilkinson used to practice on the pitches behind his parents’ house and unless he’d landed 50 kicks in a row, he’d stay out practicing.

I saw Joe Schmidt berating Conor Murray when a crossfield kick bounced once instead of landing in the winger’s arms, even though Ireland scored the try.

Yet footballers seem to be able to hit woeful cross after woeful cross and take terrible corners without being shamed.

Very strange.

Ninthlife

Another thing that bugs me is short corners which ends up with the ball being played back to your own half and any attacking threat diminished.

bangkok

limnam wrote: »

Crossing success rate is surprisingly low across the board.

I might be mis remembering but always felt Giggs was shiote at crossing the ball.

From 2016

The mighty Man city spent 100 mil on wide players only 13 per cent of city's crosses were successful

Giggs **** at crossing?

Ah here, im going to bed

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Ah here, at best of times I have my suspicions but if any United fan can look at Souness and not realise he's an utter ABU whose does nothing but moan and bitch about everything, and would be doing so even if we were walking the league, then yeah, never ask me to take you seriously again....

Moan and bitch? This thread is full of united supporters and its been nothing but moan and bitch the last 4 years!!!

So ye dont like Souness, dont like any of the lads on rte, BT is crap, scholes is boring and negative, what pundit do you actually like?

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

Giggs **** at crossing?

Ah here, im going to bed

Overall, Giggsy wasn't great at crossing....

limnam

bangkok wrote: »

Giggs **** at crossing?

Ah here, im going to bed

It's that easy?

I'll keep this in mind for the future. :pac:

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Overall, Giggsy wasn't great at crossing....

Compared to becks no, but he was still a brilliant crosser of the ball

limnam

bangkok wrote: »

Compared to becks no, but he was still a brilliant crosser of the ball

He put in some great crosses.

But in _general_ he wasn't.

bangkok

limnam wrote: »

He put in some great crosses.

But in _general_ he wasn't.

Will have to agree to disagree on that one

limnam

bangkok wrote: »

Compared to becks no, but he was still a brilliant crosser of the ball

United fans complaining about the same rubbish in 2006. somethings never change

why cant most of our wingers cross the ball properly ? its kinda insane isnt it?
they are old, highly professional players getting an insane amount of money per week, yet they cant manage to cross decently. they have the abilety to do most tricks in the world, dribble past defenders as if they were children, yet they cant cross..

Not only our wingers like Ronaldo & Giggs - our full-backs suffer the same - Heinze & now Evra to add to the poor crossing abilities of most of their teammates.

The worst thing is that most of our crosses don't even beat the first defender when all coaches will tell you that crosses have to have the effect of giving team-mates a 50/50 chance of getting the ball.

:pac::pac:

scudzilla

I'd put Giggs more in the category of great passer instead of crosser, if that makes sense, so many times, especially when he was younger, he'd dribble in and shoot or just pass it for a goal, never seen him on becks level for crossing

Ninthlife

Gary Neville wasnt bad at putting a ball into the box on the over lap..

It may be rose tinted view but isnt he or he was one of the top 5 defenders for assists

Andrew Beef

A good shout; Gary Neville was an excellent crosser of the ball. As was Denis Irwin.

bangkok

Beckham was the best crosser of a ball in the history of the game, certainly in my life time anyway

Ninthlife

Thinking of Beckham and Neville both English. Add in the likes of Scholes, Ferdinand Rooney and the array of players from other teams it always amazes me that England failed so often at Euros and WC

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

Beckham was the best crosser of a ball in the history of the game, certainly in my life time anyway

Agreed. And my sense with him was that he didn’t just pitch up in a match and hit pinpoint crosses; he was very much a Jonny Wilkinson type character who worked tirelessly at at.

I’d love to know how much time Antonio Valencia spends each week working on his crossing; I suspect it’s very little.

Drumpot

Ninthlife wrote: »

Thinking of Beckham and Neville both English. Add in the likes of Scholes, Ferdinand Rooney and the array of players from other teams it always amazes me that England failed so often at Euros and WC

Maybe cause they played Scholes out the left wing to squeeze Gerard and lampard into the the same team. Funny cause Many would say Scholes was the best English player of his generation. Such a toxic national team that’s run by old fossils who don’t have a clue how to do anything but Public relations.

They need a manager who doesn’t listen to media or the powers that be and just does their thing. How many English managers careers were tarnished by that role?

Drumpot

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Agreed. And my sense with him was that he didn’t just pitch up in a match and hit pinpoint crosses; he was very much a Jonny Wilkinson type character who worked tirelessly at at.

I’d love to know how much time Antonio Valencia spends each week working on his crossing; I suspect it’s very little.

Easy to forget Tony replaced Ronaldo...

Worst crosser? https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2641897/premier-league-top-crossers-revealed-antonio-valencia-cedric-soares-wayne-routledge/amp/

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/5td15q/rightback_antonio_valencia_tops_crosses_and/

I’m surprised at those stats by the way. I don’t understand how that works!

Ninthlife

Drumpot wrote: »

Maybe cause they played Scholes out the left wing to squeeze Gerard and lampard into the the same team. Funny cause Many would say Scholes was the best English player of his generation. Such a toxic national team that’s run by old fossils who don’t have a clue how to do anything but Public relations.

They need a manager who doesn’t listen to media or the powers that be and just does their thing. How many English managers careers were tarnished by that role?

I agree. Look at the strikers theyve had through the years

Shearer, Cole, Les Ferdinand, Sheringham, Rooney, Fowler, Wright, Owen

Andrew Beef

Drumpot wrote: »

Ninthlife wrote: »

Thinking of Beckham and Neville both English. Add in the likes of Scholes, Ferdinand Rooney and the array of players from other teams it always amazes me that England failed so often at Euros and WC

Maybe cause they played Scholes out the left wing to squeeze Gerard and lampard into the the same team. Funny cause Many would say Scholes was the best English player of his generation. Such a toxic national team that’s run by old fossils who don’t have a clue how to do anything but Public relations.

They need a manager who doesn’t listen to media or the powers that be and just does their thing. How many English managers careers were tarnished by that role?

The idiocy of trying to play Lampard and Gerrard together really did for them.

What was required was a grasping of the nettle and the dropping of one of them; Gerrard in my view.

Relikk

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I’d love to know how much time Antonio Valencia spends each week working on his crossing; I suspect it’s very little.

I'd actually like to see him try a cross when the space is there to cross it, instead of stopping and playing strictly come dancing with the defender in front him every single time.

Just cross the f*cking ball.

S.M.B.

While I agree that earlier in the season it was disappointing how many attacks ended with an ineffective Valencia cross I do think his inability to cross or provide any end product has been massively blown out of proportion. Everybody loves a good Valencia /Cross joke.

On the flip side people are very quick to big up a solid Shaw performance yet his stats aren't exactly mind blowing either.

6 career assists and 0 goals, regardless of injuries, isn't the best of returns.

S.M.B.

S.M.B. wrote: »

While I agree that earlier in the season it was disappointing how many attacks ended with an ineffective Valencia cross I do think his inability to cross or provide any end product has been massively blown out of proportion. Everybody loves a good Valencia /Cross joke.

On the flip side people are very quick to big up a solid Shaw performance yet his stats aren't exactly mind blowing either.

6 career assists and 0 goals, regardless of injuries, isn't the best of returns.

It's not a joke. His delivery from the right hand side is consistently poor and Lukaku suffers because of it.
The one odd good ball every ten matches isn't even close to being good enough.
We have had this problem from day 1 and Jose seems to insist on having him overlap on the right hand side time and time again.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's not a joke. His delivery from the right hand side is consistently poor and Lukaku suffers because of it.
The one odd good ball every ten matches isn't even close to being good enough.
We have had this problem from day 1 and Jose seems to insist on having him overlap on the right hand side time and time again.

What player in the team is creating chances apart from Pogba and now the manager has had a falling out with him

Trigger

Missed the match on Wednesday So can’t comment on that.. but this popped up on my twitter last night and had 2 interesting pieces in it..

DeGea to sign a new contract, and Alderweirald is up for sale.. we should be all over that!

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/966808072562905091

Adamocovic

I find it all a bit hilarious how when the Metro pushed with the story that José had a falling out with Pogba and Jones only the Pogba side caught the eye of the readers and so every rag and analyst jumped on board.

It's pathetic really, they are trying "decipher" Pogba's latest "cryptic tweet" where it's a picture of him in a training jersey. Lord above.

I'm not saying there hasn't been some tension or they've had words, who really knows, but the level this is being blown up by the media and believed by fans is staggering. I find it bizarre how easily fans believe the story, despite club saying it's rubbish (their words), José calling them lies, and Pogba seemingly just going about his business and saying he was dropped for the Huddersfield game because he was ill. Maybe there is tension between them but the level to which is being portrayed I find complete gobbobbles.

Again, all the attention after Sevilla game was José becoming annoyed by being asked constantly about Paul despite him answering the issue already. Nobody seems to be even mentioning the fact that he complimented Pogba too. After complimenting the midfield (debatable in my eyes) he said:

"But I also think, in my opinion, the midfield started well before Herrera had to go out, and then Pogba made a big effort to go into that dynamic, the dynamic we needed and he gave a positive performance."

I'm sure this won't please everyone, and they'll be people trying to interpret this "cryptic" comment by José. I don't foolishly think all is hunky dory but I think people are falling hook link and sinker for a story created (blown out of proportion) by the media.

bangkok

Adamocovic wrote: »

I find it all a bit hilarious how when the Metro pushed with the story that José had a falling out with Pogba and Jones only the Pogba side caught the eye of the readers and so every rag and analyst jumped on board.

It's pathetic really, they are trying "decipher" Pogba's latest "cryptic tweet" where it's a picture of him in a training jersey. Lord above.

I'm not saying there hasn't been some tension or they've had words, who really knows, but the level this is being blown up by the media and believed by fans is staggering. I find it bizarre how easily fans believe the story, despite club saying it's rubbish (their words), José calling them lies, and Pogba seemingly just going about his business and saying he was dropped for the Huddersfield game because he was ill. Maybe there is tension between them but the level to which is being portrayed I find complete gobbobbles.

Again, all the attention after Sevilla game was José becoming annoyed by being asked constantly about Paul despite him answering the issue already. Nobody seems to be even mentioning the fact that he complimented Pogba too. After complimenting the midfield (debatable in my eyes) he said:



I'm sure this won't please everyone, and they'll be people trying to interpret this "cryptic" comment by José. I don't foolishly think all is hunky dory but I think people are falling hook link and sinker for a story created (blown out of proportion) by the media.

You forgot that mourinho said pogba "decided not to play" v huddersfield

He also wasnt going to be brought on only for herrera got injured, he wanted to bring on martial rashford and lingard

You also didnt mention after the sevilla game when jose was askes about pogba, he said "who" and stormed off

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

You forgot that mourinho said pogba "decided not to play" v huddersfield

Apparently because he was feeling ill. Yes may piss off José but I'm not jumping into this idea that the two have had this proper bust-up that will result in either José or Pogba going.

He also wasnt going to be brought on only for herrera got injured, he wanted to bring on martial rashford and lingard

So? If that was his gameplan so be it. If Pogba was ill on Saturday and didn't feel good enough to play that was only 4 days before the midweek match. With a game coming up against Chelsea I would prefer not to have to use him either.

Surely if there fallout has been as severe as some are led to believe Pogba wouldn't have even travelled with the team.

You also didnt mention after the sevilla game when jose was askes about pogba, he said "who" and stormed off

I mentioned the positives he said because all that is being smeared all over papers and forums alike is the negative response.

He was getting asked the same question after question about Pogba even after answering previously. Of course he got fed up. I didn't see that as a dig to Paul but more of him being annoyed with the press. As I said before, this story started with reports that he fell out with both Jones and Pogba after Newcastle, yet all attention and questions surround Pogba and none on his relationship with Jones. Why? Because Pogba sells papers.

You seemed to have empathized with Aguero losing his cool and swinging punches at a fan who taunted(possibly spat) at him early this week, surely you can empathize with a manager getting fed up with the journalists looking for a story that he claims isn't there?

Look if you believe that the José/Pogba relationship is as strained as the papers have reported and that it will end up with one of their departures so be it. Each to their own.

Rayne Wooney

The reality is 2nd or 3rd and a champions league knockout stage exit is our level, that is the capability of this squad.

You need 5 or 6 world class performers to win the majors, City, PSG, Madrid and Barca have them, and three of them will win league titles this season and one will win the CL. We have one and he’s a goalkeeper, excusing Sanchez who has just arrived. We are in the level below those clubs with the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool.

No amount of manager changing will change this fact, Pogba, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Smalling, Jones and the full back situation. We have too many non performers, Nani was heavily criticised back in the day for being inconsistent and you will always have inconsistent players however if we had a prime Rooney, Scholes and Vidic in the team like Nani did the players above would do fine because the pressure is off. The spotlight isn’t on them to perform when you have that calibre of player in the team, and there is the problem, too many bit part players.

bangkok

Adamocovic wrote: »

Apparently because he was feeling ill. Yes may piss off José but I'm not jumping into this idea that the two have had this proper bust-up that will result in either José or Pogba going.



So? If that was his gameplan so be it. If Pogba was ill on Saturday and didn't feel good enough to play that was only 4 days before the midweek match. With a game coming up against Chelsea I would prefer not to have to use him either.

Surely if there fallout has been as severe as some are led to believe Pogba wouldn't have even travelled with the team.



I mentioned the positives he said because all that is being smeared all over papers and forums alike is the negative response.

He was getting asked the same question after question about Pogba even after answering previously. Of course he got fed up. I didn't see that as a dig to Paul but more of him being annoyed with the press. As I said before, this story started with reports that he fell out with both Jones and Pogba after Newcastle, yet all attention and questions surround Pogba and none on his relationship with Jones. Why? Because Pogba sells papers.

You seemed to have empathized with Aguero losing his cool and swinging punches at a fan who taunted(possibly spat) at him early this week, surely you can empathize with a manager getting fed up with the journalists looking for a story that he claims isn't there?

Look if you believe that the José/Pogba relationship is as strained as the papers have reported and that it will end up with one of their departures so be it. Each to their own.

Also pogba did a full training session in sunday morning after th huddersfield game....

Then jose allowed the press full acces to uniteds training before sevilla game, something he never does, pogba is training fine, in good spirits and is then dropped for sevilla game.

There are no winners out of this spat, only losers

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The reality is 2nd or 3rd and a champions league knockout stage exit is our level, that is the capability of this squad.

You need 5 or 6 world class performers to win the majors, City, PSG, Madrid and Barca have them, and three of them will win league titles this season and one will win the CL. We have one and he’s a goalkeeper, excusing Sanchez who has just arrived. We are in the level below those clubs with the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool.

No amount of manager changing will change this fact, Pogba, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Smalling, Jones and the full back situation. We have too many non performers, Nani was heavily criticised back in the day for being inconsistent and you will always have inconsistent players however if we had a prime Rooney, Scholes and Vidic in the team like Nani did the players above would do fine because the pressure is off. The spotlight isn’t on them to perform when you have that calibre of player in the team, and there is the problem, too many bit part players.

We have world class players.

De gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba
Sanchez

Martial is a class player on his day as well

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

We have world class players.

De gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba
Sanchez

Martial is a class player on his day as well

I agree with DeGea and Sanchez.. Pogba has the potential to be World Class.

Matic is a very very good player but he isn’t a world class player..

Now the last one.. I would love to know how you came to the conclusion that Bailly is a world class player at the mo.. I’m really interested by that

ollkiller

bangkok wrote: »

Compared to becks no, but he was still a brilliant crosser of the ball

Are you actually serious or having a wind up. Giggs was terrible at crossing. Good passer, great dribbler but the amount of times i've screamed at a telly because of his inability to deliver a good cross is innumerable.

Good shout on Neville and Irwin. Good crosses from both. Great defenders too. Irwin over neville at the end of the day. Best crosser, easily beckham, for most wingers when a defender was in front of them the cross would be blocked but Beckham could get such curve on the ball it didn't matter if the defender was in front of him. Van Nistelrooy owes some amount of goals to beckhams right leg.

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

We have world class players.

De gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba
Sanchez

Martial is a class player on his day as well

Pogba and Matic are currently performing nothing like world class players. Pogba was invisible against Sevilla and Matic could make simple passes.

Also on form I would not say Matic is world class. I'd kill for us to sign Modric, what a talent.

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

We have world class players.

De gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba
Sanchez

Martial is a class player on his day as well

How can you say Bailey is a world class player? He's barely played since he joined but he is very good.

Matic isn't world class either.

Trigger

On Giggs.. the absolute groans you would hear when Giggsy stepped up to take a corner you just knew it was going to hit the first man.. what a passer though, has a brilliant knack of having the correct weight in a pass every time

Trigger

Your Airbag wrote: »

Pogba and Matic are currently performing nothing like world class players. Pogba was invisible against Sevilla and Matic could make simple passes.

Also on form I would not say Matic is world class. I'd kill for us to sign Modric, what a talent.

I think it’s too late for Modric now, isn’t he 33.. Kroos on the other hand... yes please

ollkiller

astradave wrote: »

On Giggs.. the absolute groans you would hear when Giggsy stepped up to take a corner you just knew it was going to hit the first man.. what a passer though, has a brilliant knack of having the correct weight in a pass every time

Aye a terrible corner taker. Any free kick that required a cross and not a shot he was terrible at too. He did though know how to deliver a good pass to a colleague.

Sgt Pepper 64

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The reality is 2nd or 3rd and a champions league knockout stage exit is our level, that is the capability of this squad.

You need 5 or 6 world class performers to win the majors, City, PSG, Madrid and Barca have them, and three of them will win league titles this season and one will win the CL. We have one and he’s a goalkeeper, excusing Sanchez who has just arrived. We are in the level below those clubs with the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool.

No amount of manager changing will change this fact, Pogba, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Smalling, Jones and the full back situation. We have too many non performers, Nani was heavily criticised back in the day for being inconsistent and you will always have inconsistent players however if we had a prime Rooney, Scholes and Vidic in the team like Nani did the players above would do fine because the pressure is off. The spotlight isn’t on them to perform when you have that calibre of player in the team, and there is the problem, too many bit part players.

errr arent chelsea the current league champions, finishing some way ahead of city who finished 3rd?
chelsea and indeed Leicester showed that you dont need a squad packed full of "world class" performers, whatever that is.
Rather you need belief and desire by the players in the coach and system, and a tactically astute manager who capable of changing things mid game and reacting and players who will follow their given instructions and do the job they are told to, often sacrificing their natural play instincts for the good of the team

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

I agree with DeGea and Sanchez.. Pogba has the potential to be World Class.

Matic is a very very good player but he isn’t a world class player..

Now the last one.. I would love to know how you came to the conclusion that Bailly is a world class player at the mo.. I’m really interested by that

Pogba was world class at Juventus, hence us breaking the world record fee for him.

Matic imo is a world class defensive midfielder but i think the lad is burnt out now.

Bailly is imo one of the best centre backs in europe, good on the ball, strong in the challenge and very fast.

Id be interested to hear who rayne wooney thinks is world class at city...

I would say

De bruyne
Silva
Aguero
Mendy (although he injured)

Sane is around the same as martial, not quiet world class but an excellent player

Rekop dog

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba was world class at Juventus, hence us breaking the world record fee for him.

He wasn't, I'd watch Serie A regularly and he was never the complete midfielder, he was the third best of the Pogba Pirlo and Vidal partnership, the three worked well together no doubt and they're deeper positioning allowed him the freedom to not have defensive responsibilities but he didn't have the consistent influence over a game to ever call him world class and they never really missed him after his departure.

bangkok

Seen a good one this morning.

"Lukaku cant even Control Alt Delete"

Sent to me by a utd supporter by the way

Mitch Connor

Rekop dog wrote: »

He wasn't, I'd watch Serie A regularly and he was never the complete midfielder, he was the third best of the Pogba Pirlo and Vidal partnership, the three worked well together no doubt and they're deeper positioning allowed him the freedom to not have defensive responsibilities but he didn't have the consistent influence over a game to ever call him world class and they never really missed him after his departure.

You don't need to be a complete midfielder to be world class though. You can be world class at the aspect of midfield play you are great at.

I wouldn't have considered Zindane a lesser player because his defending wasn't great. I wouldn't play Iniesta as a defensive midfielder. I wouldn't have played Roy Keane as an attacking midfielder. I wouldn't have played Makalele as an attacking midfielder. I wouldn't play KDB as a a defensive midfielder.

Pirlo was world class.
At the time (haven't watched him recently) Vidal was world class.

IamtheWalrus

bangkok wrote: »

Valencia, shaw, bailly, matic, pogba, Herrera, zlatan, sanchez, martial, rashford, lukaku, blind are all easily comfortable on the ball. Attack as a team, defend as a team we do neither. Im sick of watching us play, it has almost become a chore. Dreading the game sunday and especially the liverpool game that is coming up

Only 2 get into the Man City side.

pjohnson

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Only 2 get into the Man City side.

Pogba wouldn't