Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Only 2 get into the Man City side.

Are you trying to counter a point or just take a shot at the quality of the players?

Not getting into the City 11 doesn't stop them being able to play football.

A lot of teams play better football than us with players that also wouldn't get into the City side.

TitianGerm

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Only 2 get into the Man City side.

Sanchez wouldn't start if Jesus was fit I don't think.

I doubt Pep would pick Pogba over KDB, Gundogen and Ferndinho either.

Dear Gea would definitely play though.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Pogba wouldn't

Yes he would imo, because at City he'd be in a team willing to play football.

He'd be better at City than he is at United, imo. Like most of our players.

IamtheWalrus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Are you trying to counter a point or just take a shot at the quality of the players?

Not getting into the City 11 doesn't stop them being able to play football.

A lot of teams play better football than us with players that also wouldn't get into the City side.

I genuinely believe the squad lacks top-quality.

yourdeadwright

Pogba wouldn't;t get near the city starting line up at the minute,
You know what summed Pogba up ,the other night in Sevilla in the first half, he got the ball close to the half way lined produced a brilliant turn to get away from 2 players , Instead of driving forward into the space he rolled his foot over the top of the ball (slowing down play ) and then played it out left to someone level with him
If he was world class he would have drove forward , there was absolutely no need for the little foot  roll ,its a tiny small thing but sums him up he done the amazing and then does something totally unneeded to look flash but it slowed the attack down, maybe only by a second but still there was zero need for it,

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I genuinely believe the squad lacks top-quality.

But that wasn't a point being made in the post responded to.

The post was talking about United having players who are more comfortable on the ball than our tactics, style and performance would suggest.

TitianGerm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes he would imo, because at City he'd be in a team willing to play football.

He'd be better at City than he is at United, imo. Like most of our players.

He'd be replacing KDB in thier set up and no way would pep drop him for anyone in the world.

bangkok

There was plenty here at the start of the season that thought our squads was better than citys player for player

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes he would imo, because at City he'd be in a team willing to play football.

He'd be better at City than he is at United, imo. Like most of our players.

Yeah great for him. Hes not better than De Bruyne so he still doesn't get into their side.

Adamocovic

For me there a few things I would love to see this Sunday that think would help with team and fan morale, obviously will be tough against Chelsea however.

1) Bailly/Jones partnership reinstated and a clean sheet. Again will be difficult but think if they started back together with a good solid performance against a tough Chelsea side can only boost morale and make us think there is a possibility of returning to the more secure defence we had earlier in the season.

2) Pogba to start. Think it would go a long way to quietening down the speculation of a spat by starting Pogba in a big game, however who knows when José may seek a more defensive line-up.

3) Some intent while on the ball. I know this one is the most difficult. Chelsea have shown their defensive security and will know exactly what they have to do against us. At the moment we look devoid of any plan when in possession. All bunched into the middle and huge gaps isolating the striker. Would love to see us playing with players making runs out wide with pace and quick attacks when we win possession. This I know is hard to do and more than not unlikely given the opposition.

Anyway, I'm a broken record about how big these next 3 games are but for some stupid reason I'm feeling quietly optimistic about Sunday.

Hococop

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Pogba wouldn't;t get near the city starting line up at the minute,
You know what summed Pogba up ,the other night in Sevilla in the first half, he got the ball close to the half way lined produced a brilliant turn to get away from 2 players , Instead of driving forward into the space he rolled his foot over the top of the ball (slowing down play ) and then played it out left to someone level with him
If he was world class he would have drove forward , there was absolutely no need for the little foot  roll ,its a tiny small thing but sums him up he done the amazing and then does something totally unneeded to look flash but it slowed the attack down, maybe only by a second but still there was zero need for it,

Is that Jose tactics, we seem to be very lackadaisical in attacking, I noticed in the second half you could see Sanchez seemed to get pissed as the lack of effort in attacking and made one burst down the middle and won a free out of it, I'd imagine Jose played it safe hopefully we play more attacking the next game

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

There was plenty here at the start of the season that thought our squads was better than citys player for player

Call me crazy but personally still think starting 11 player to player we are better in some positions and pretty damn close in a lot. Obviously City better in others too and I think they have more quality and greater depth in some positions but I honestly don't think player for player we are a million miles behind them like others seem to think.

Would say I think City as a collective unit and team are much stronger than us, obviously with results this is proven.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah great for him. Hes not better than De Bruyne so he still doesn't get into their side.

I think he would go in for Gundogan, not KDB. At city he'd find it a lot easier being the second man in midfield.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah great for him. Hes not better than De Bruyne so he still doesn't get into their side.

De bruyne plays on the right side of their midfield 3, pogba would easily slot into the city team and would thrive under pep in an attacking role

yourdeadwright

Adamocovic wrote: »

For me there a few things I would love to see this Sunday that think would help with team and fan morale, obviously will be tough against Chelsea however.

1) Bailly/Jones partnership reinstated and a clean sheet. Again will be difficult but think if they started back together with a good solid performance against a tough Chelsea side can only boost morale and make us think there is a possibility of returning to the more secure defence we had earlier in the season.

2) Pogba to start. Think it would go a long way to quietening down the speculation of a spat by starting Pogba in a big game, however who knows when José may seek a more defensive line-up.

3) Some intent while on the ball. I know this one is the most difficult. Chelsea have shown their defensive security and will know exactly what they have to do against us. At the moment we look devoid of any plan when in possession. All bunched into the middle and huge gaps isolating the striker. Would love to see us playing with players making runs out wide with pace and quick attacks when we win possession. This I know is hard to do and more than not unlikely given the opposition.

Anyway, I'm a broken record about how big these next 3 games are but for some stupid reason I'm feeling quietly optimistic about Sunday.

"Chelsea have shown their defensive security "
They let in 3 at home to Bournemouth and 4 away to Watford in 2 of there last 3 Prem games

Adamocovic

yourdeadwright wrote: »

"Chelsea have shown their defensive security "
They let in 3 at home to Bournemouth and 4 away to Watford in 2 of there last 3 Prem games

Yes they had two brutal games in their last 10 prem league games. Also in those last 10 games they've had 7 clean sheets if I'm correct.

They may have imploded against Watford and Bournemouth but have then gone on to concede 1 goal in the following 3 games after, and surely the performance midweek against Barcelona would lead us to believe they've dragged themselves out of that slump.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

De bruyne plays on the right side of their midfield 3, pogba would easily slot into the city team and would thrive under pep in an attacking role

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think he would go in for Gundogan, not KDB. At city he'd find it a lot easier being the second man in midfield.

True he is better than Gundogan but the only reason Gundogan starts is if David Silva is rested. Fernandinho-Silva-De Bruyne is thier midfield 3 and Pogba wouldn't dislodge any of them.

DM_7

Curious to see where Sanchez plays this week. Central almost a CF like Lingard has done or in the wide left role?

Last season United had the control thanks an early goal and good tactical selections. Need another game like that this week.

yourdeadwright

pjohnson wrote: »

bangkok wrote: »

De bruyne plays on the right side of their midfield 3, pogba would easily slot into the city team and would thrive under pep in an attacking role

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think he would go in for Gundogan, not KDB. At city he'd find it a lot easier being the second man in midfield.

True he is better than Gundogan but the only reason Gundogan starts is if David Silva is rested. Fernandinho-Silva-De Bruyne is thier midfield 3 and Pogba wouldn't dislodge any of them.

He would not displace Gundogan , not a chance, Pep want his midfield to do the jobs he set's out and exactly that, Pogba does not do this he never has, even at Juve he roamed around the park coming in and out of games no way would Pep  have that,

If you recall Zlatan wouldn't play the way Pep wanted him to and he got the boot,
Aguero also had to change to suit what Pep was asking for, Pogba just doesn't have the discipline required to play for Pep

Lord TSC

DDG named Champions league player of the week

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

DDG named Champions league player of the week

That a new thing?

bangkok

Miguel Delaney on jose

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/how-jose-mourinhos-betrayal-in-2007-is-now-being-felt-at-manchester-united-36635767.html

Trigger

Your constant link dumping of any article that shows Jose in a negative light is getting tiresome at this stage

Trigger

From Jose’s press conference about Pogba. I really don’t see that there is an issue between them. He had some very good words to say. Very happy with Pogba’s response to being benched

You saw the game against Seville, it’s always more difficult to come from the bench than to start, a player when he is starting the game has a different kind of preparation for it, to be on the bench and to come on without warming up and getting to the pace of the game is not easy and I think he had a very positive game for us and some details are details and some players take five mins to be ready to play, they don’t have shinpads, strapping, the shirt, he took 10 seconds to be ready to come to the pitch, to show the professionalism and show he was ready to help the team. He responded very well in a professional way both times, he was on the bench against Huddersfield in the PL and he responded in a pro way and he was on the bench in Seville and did the same.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Your constant link dumping of any article that shows Jose in a negative light is getting tiresome at this stage

Constant? About 4 or 5. When there are ones that show him in a positive light i will link them as well

TheDoc

Adamocovic wrote: »

I find it all a bit hilarious how when the Metro pushed with the story that José had a falling out with Pogba and Jones only the Pogba side caught the eye of the readers and so every rag and analyst jumped on board.

Well to be honest, who really cares about Jones? He's not a story, and to be honest he's not a real concern for fans either. Plenty will think hes not good enough to be near the team anyway, with others thinking hes not reliable enough.

Rarely does anyone wax lyrical about him, and I don't think he's deemed by anyone as integral to what we want to do.

The other player...he kinda is.

It's pathetic really, they are trying "decipher" Pogba's latest "cryptic tweet" where it's a picture of him in a training jersey. Lord above.

Of course its pathetic, but sure look, we can laugh all day about how papers in the UK now operate, but there is a very clear and understandable reason why, and at the end of the day, fans in the UK lap this **** up, hence why it keeps getting churned out.

I'm not saying there hasn't been some tension or they've had words, who really knows, but the level this is being blown up by the media and believed by fans is staggering. I find it bizarre how easily fans believe the story, despite club saying it's rubbish (their words), José calling them lies, and Pogba seemingly just going about his business and saying he was dropped for the Huddersfield game because he was ill. Maybe there is tension between them but the level to which is being portrayed I find complete gobbobbles.

There is clearly a problem there. Evidently a problem. And all fans should be concerned our manager and best player are not on the same page. Like anyone trying to spin a different story is just a fool.

You don't bench Paul Pogba in a CL knockout tie, unless you are sending a message to both the public and player.

I'm sure this won't please everyone, and they'll be people trying to interpret this "cryptic" comment by José. I don't foolishly think all is hunky dory but I think people are falling hook link and sinker for a story created (blown out of proportion) by the media.

I don't understand really how anyone underplays it. How can our manager and best player being out of sync and whack, not be a massive concern. What other issues occur in the week to week of a football club that is more concerning for a fan?

Whatever about him not playing well, the manager not playing him properly, our attack being an absolute ****ing mess.

But when the manager is hooking him off, and then benching him for an important game, that is OBVIOUSLY going to be a point of discussion and just cause of concern? No?

The interpretations about his comments about Pogba, doctors, illness and the praise of McTominany, it's pretty simple. This manager has a routine, he does the same things over and over again. You can read him like a book. There is no more reading between the lines, it's so obvious to everyone now.

He said nothing cryptic, he made everyone acutely aware that he isn't impressed with Pogba crying off against Huddersfield and wants everyone to know he doesn't think Pogba is that big a deal, and there is other players that will make this team win games.

Really is that obvious

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

From Jose’s press conference about Pogba. I really don’t see that there is an issue between them. He had some very good words to say. Very happy with Pogba’s response to being benched

I thought he did well when he came on as well

DM_7

Managers often send players a message. Some are to knock them into line, some are to knock them out of line.

It is clear they have an issue. It is not clear what that is.

The press love that and so do many many followers if the game as it gets people talking.

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

No amount of manager changing will change this fact, Pogba, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Smalling, Jones and the full back situation. We have too many non performers, Nani was heavily criticised back in the day for being inconsistent and you will always have inconsistent players however if we had a prime Rooney, Scholes and Vidic in the team like Nani did the players above would do fine because the pressure is off. The spotlight isn’t on them to perform when you have that calibre of player in the team, and there is the problem, too many bit part players.

Then we should throw our hat into the ring. Because management is now basically just playing the transfer windows in football manager.

Have I read your post wrong, or are the players you are naming the problems?

Cause if so, to totally counter your argument, a manager is CLEARLY the solution to those problems.

There are managers out there that would be doing much more to maximise the output from the likes of Pogba, Martial and Shaw.

Like I'm sitting on it at the moment, but we will leave it go on for a few more matches. But watching Sanchez since he arrived, I can't help but feel that justifies my long term belief about this manager and how he coaches.

I think the reviews of Sanchez since arriving have been very kind, and maybe rightly so for a new player bedding in. But suffice to say I've been massively underwhelmed thus far, quickly seeing his Arsenal issues I didn't want to see, and he has now created a NEW issue to solve in attack

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Seen a good one this morning.

"Lukaku cant even Control Alt Delete"

Sent to me by a utd supporter by the way

Are you in my whatsapp thread?

I got the same. Appears I'm the lone defender of Lukaku's honour in my mates United thread : /

TheDoc

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Pogba wouldn't;t get near the city starting line up at the minute,

These arguments typically (and obviously so) just completely eradicate what that manager would be able to extract from them in terms of performance.

I'm pretty comfortable in saying Pogba at City under Guardiola would be playing ahead of Gundagon, and likely even Silva.

And considering how defending is managed in that shape, he'd probably even be there ahead of Fernandhino playing as a deep CM, in a totally different mould to how we see and play our deep CM's in our setup.

Pogba can easily be as good as De Bruyne. Easily. This is the frustrating part, those of us who actually rate Pogba, know how good he can be, and marvel at what he COULD be.

So much of it is of course up to himself, but he also needs help from his manager.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Are you in my whatsapp thread?

I got the same. Appears I'm the lone defender of Lukaku's honour in my mates United thread : /

Yep thats where i seen it.

Look, lukuku is good, but unlike de gea who will save you points, lukaku wont score the goals to get you points when it matters. Everyone keeps harping on about service but he should be able to create a few goals on his own as well

DM_7

Afterwards, he added: "For the team, you have to do anything."


Jose on Shaw and Smalling in Nov 16 after what he saw as questionable injuries. Both are still at United. Smalling a regular first 11 player.

Just an extra item to consider.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Your posts get tiresome at this stage

FYP

Julez

bangkok wrote: »

Yep thats where i seen it.

Look, lukuku is good, but unlike de gea who will save you points, lukaku wont score the goals to get you points when it matters. Everyone keeps harping on about service but he should be able to create a few goals on his own as well

He's certainly not earned anything to be called world class, like say, Bailly.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

There was plenty here at the start of the season that thought our squads was better than citys player for player

I'm one of those.

I never subscribe to the narrative that "Oh Pep had a better platform to build from, Jose was saving the club from the Van Gaal travesty".

Pound for pound, our squad was and is just, and could be, as good as City. Absolutely no fears or problems for me saying it. The issue is in the performances and the respective managers maximising potential and performance from their respective squads.

Aguero is the only player that sticks out in their squad and always has.

And before you go "ermgad De Bruyne" based on my belief Pogba could be doing the same

ericzeking

astradave wrote: »

Your constant link dumping of any article that shows Jose in a negative light is getting tiresome at this stage

That Delaney piece wasn't exactly anti-Mourinho, it was more a discussion/observational piece. I thought it was a good read and anyway isn't MD normally pro-Mourinho?

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Yep thats where i seen it.

Look, lukuku is good, but unlike de gea who will save you points, lukaku wont score the goals to get you points when it matters. Everyone keeps harping on about service but he should be able to create a few goals on his own as well

Cash is that you?

bangkok

ericzeking wrote: »

That Delaney piece wasn't exactly anti-Mourinho, it was more a discussion/observational piece. I thought it was a good read and anyway isn't MD normally pro-Mourinho?

Exactly, i wonder did astradave even read it. Was more of what happened in 2007 with chelsea

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

That Delaney piece wasn't exactly anti-Mourinho, it was more a discussion/observational piece. I thought it was a good read and anyway isn't MD normally pro-Mourinho?

MD would be described as "anti-mourinho" if we are in the black and white realm of , you like him or hate him, rate him or think hes past it.

He's actual position is that Mourinho is passed it, and he is being outclassed by a new breed of modern manager who can coach all aspects of the game.

He is a big journalistic portrayer of my belief, that Jose can't coach an attacker or attacking structure.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm one of those.

I never subscribe to the narrative that "Oh Pep had a better platform to build from, Jose was saving the club from the Van Gaal travesty".

Pound for pound, our squad was and is just, and could be, as good as City. Absolutely no fears or problems for me saying it. The issue is in the performances and the respective managers maximising potential and performance from their respective squads.

Aguero is the only player that sticks out in their squad and always has.

And before you go "ermgad De Bruyne" based on my belief Pogba could be doing the same

Well the question I would have is what role do the club have in this situation ? What good is a squad suitable for Peps tactics for Jose ? Did the club actually watch Jose teams or ask him what kind of tactics he employed before signing players?

Its funny cause people are saying a quality player like Pogba should have a team built around him, but shouldn't a quality manager like Jose be supported with a squad that suits his preferred tactics ?

Kirby

TheDoc wrote: »

MD would be described as "anti-mourinho" if we are in the black and white realm of , you like him or hate him, rate him or think hes past it.

He's actual position is that Mourinho is passed it, and he is being outclassed by a new breed of modern manager who can coach all aspects of the game.

He is a big journalistic portrayer of my belief, that Jose can't coach an attacker or attacking structure.

Even if what you say is true, no manager is perfect. Woudn't Pep be the inverse? Doesn't know how to coach a team defensively beyond "Everyone press for 90 minutes please". There is a reason City keep splunking 50 million on a new Centre Half every window. There is a pattern there.

Remember his attempts to beat Barca at Bayern? Remember that time he tried to go man for man all over the pitch? It was a disaster and Bayern got destroyed.

Point being, as good as Pep is and has City playing very well.....no manager is perfect. He has weaknesses too.

bangkok

Kirby wrote: »

Even if what you say is true, no manager is perfect. Woudn't Pep be the inverse? Doesn't know how to coach a team defensively beyond "Everyone press for 90 minutes please". There is a reason City keep splunking 50 million on a new Centre Half every window. There is a pattern there.

Remember his attempts to beat Barca at Bayern? Remember that time he tried to go man for man all over the pitch? It was a disaster and Bayern got destroyed.

Point being, as good as Pep is and has City playing very well.....no manager is perfect. He has weaknesses too.

They have conceded 1 goal more than us..

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

Well the question I would have is what role do the club have in this situation ? What good is a squad suitable for Peps tactics for Jose ? Did the club actually watch Jose teams or ask him what kind of tactics he employed before signing players?

Its funny cause people are saying a quality player like Pogba should have a team built around him, but shouldn't a quality manager like Jose be supported with a squad that suits his preferred tactics ?

Depends on your viewpoint.

Is it not a reasonable expectation from the club that a manager will get players performing?

Do squads now need to be built, player for player, to suit a managers sole idea how to win football matches, or should they not be flexible?

Seemingly we are led to believe Jose watched United under Van Gaal for six months and presented a pretty thorough presentation about the issues with the team, how players were being misused and how he would get the team back to winning ways, along with providing a concise list of transfer targets to bolster the team.

Is it maybe a problem that Pogba was in the works before Jose arrived or was linked with the job? Is the issue with Mourinho and Pogba, maybe that Jose wasn't watching him, that he hadnt identified him as an original key target?

Who knows?

But I think no one can disagree that the manager is being backed and given the players and signings he wants. Apart from Perisic, we are led to believe every target he has wanted, has been signed.

Can maybe the club have reasonable expectations of some return on the existing staff? Did Mourinho, who wanted to sign Luke Shaw, really take 18 months to figure out "oh jesus, hes the best left back at the club".

When he sat and watched United under Van Gaal for six months, watched it all last season, is he here now going "Yeah we only need Sanchez, that will sort this attacking problem"

You can't lift and shift your entire squad in a window to suit a manager. There has to be a compromise somewhere. And I think its reasonable for the club to expect a manager will also work with and get the best from what is already in place. Otherwise what is the point of a manager?

I think he has been supported in terms of signing players he wants to suit his tactics, along with dispensing with players that arn't fitting his style. Can a club, bankrolling him, maybe not inquire "Jose, are you sure this idea you have still works?" "Yeah I know you've won loads of things, but just looking around, seems to be a pattern developing everywhere else bar with us"

TheDoc

Kirby wrote: »

Even if what you say is true, no manager is perfect. Woudn't Pep be the inverse? Doesn't know how to coach a team defensively beyond "Everyone press for 90 minutes please". There is a reason City keep splunking 50 million on a new Centre Half every window. There is a pattern there.

Remember his attempts to beat Barca at Bayern? Remember that time he tried to go man for man all over the pitch? It was a disaster and Bayern got destroyed.

Point being, as good as Pep is and has City playing very well.....no manager is perfect. He has weaknesses too.

Oh yeah not disputing that at all. There is no perfect manager, I've never seen one. And I include SAF in that.

But I think maybe if I was to, in this totally hypothetical situation, use the information at our disposal, maybe feel someone like Guardiola who was a midfielder, has had teams with brilliant midfields, and midfielders, and has a knack for moulding midfielders, would probably do a lot better with Pogba thatn Jose has.

Just like, in the reverse, to agree with you, I'd imagine City wouldn't look a barrel of laughs in defence if Jose was managing them.

deaddonkey15

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm one of those.

I never subscribe to the narrative that "Oh Pep had a better platform to build from, Jose was saving the club from the Van Gaal travesty".

Pound for pound, our squad was and is just, and could be, as good as City. Absolutely no fears or problems for me saying it. The issue is in the performances and the respective managers maximising potential and performance from their respective squads.

Aguero is the only player that sticks out in their squad and always has.

And before you go "ermgad De Bruyne" based on my belief Pogba could be doing the same

Agree with this. If Guardiola was in charge of our squad there is absolutely no way we'd be 16 points off the top of the league and playing such slow, gutless and uninspiring football with Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Mata, Rashford, Lukaku, Herrera, Lingard etc. at his disposal.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

They have conceded 1 goal more than us..

I totally get where Kirby is coming from. We can clearly see as viewers and fans, teams that go at City get some joy, and cause some panic.

The problem being, and I imagine its an absolute nightmare for opposing managers, the fear of them absolutely hammering you on the counter or just in general, if you open up to try attack them.

I think their defensive record is stemming more from the fear other teams have, and they just lock up. Needs to be acknowledged that is a result of the tactical style City use.

Where as with us, we show, normally, genuine good and strong defending individually, but also collectively. But teams feel much more comfortable attacking us than City.

And I find that mental, since our team has all the components to be a devastating counter attacking team.

Like that resonates with me, most teams actually don't mind attacking us. They clearly in their analysis feel, yeah, we are a strong and when we want devastating team, but we can also be pretty blunt and clueless in attack.

TheDoc

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Agree with this. If Guardiola was in charge of our squad there is absolutely no way we'd be 16 points off the top of the league and playing such slow, gutless and uninspiring football with Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Mata, Rashford, Lukaku, Herrera, Lingard etc. at his disposal.

Would caution I don't want this to turn into, or maybe better said ,I don't want to start, a "Pep would be cruising with our team" style conversation.

They both fundamentally operate in similar ways and methods in terms of their management, they just have polar opposite beliefs in the specific game style.

I think our attacking players would benefit much more if he was in charge, along with our midfielders to a certain extent. But there could be offsets there.

I wouldn't put it past Pep having major questions over De Gea. His distribution has actually got a bit sloppy in the last few seasons, goes under the radar, and it's a petty complaint. But since Van Gaal left and he has a clear instruction to just go direct, he's lost that class accuracy he had pinging balls to the wingbacks, wide players or splitting defenders.

There could be just as many issues possibly in terms of "misusing players" in the reverse scenario, I'd probably just feel it would be different sets of players, and probably the benefits would far outweigh the negatives.

If our attacking players were all on song and smashing teams as they should, would we REALLLYYY care that lindelof is a touch on the ropey side, that Jones is a bit of a unreliable CB. Chris Smalling would definitely be gone I know that much haha

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Depends on your viewpoint.

Is it not a reasonable expectation from the club that a manager will get players performing?

Do squads now need to be built, player for player, to suit a managers sole idea how to win football matches, or should they not be flexible?

Seemingly we are led to believe Jose watched United under Van Gaal for six months and presented a pretty thorough presentation about the issues with the team, how players were being misused and how he would get the team back to winning ways, along with providing a concise list of transfer targets to bolster the team.

Is it maybe a problem that Pogba was in the works before Jose arrived or was linked with the job? Is the issue with Mourinho and Pogba, maybe that Jose wasn't watching him, that he hadnt identified him as an original key target?

Who knows?

But I think no one can disagree that the manager is being backed and given the players and signings he wants. Apart from Perisic, we are led to believe every target he has wanted, has been signed.

Can maybe the club have reasonable expectations of some return on the existing staff? Did Mourinho, who wanted to sign Luke Shaw, really take 18 months to figure out "oh jesus, hes the best left back at the club".

When he sat and watched United under Van Gaal for six months, watched it all last season, is he here now going "Yeah we only need Sanchez, that will sort this attacking problem"

You can't lift and shift your entire squad in a window to suit a manager. There has to be a compromise somewhere. And I think its reasonable for the club to expect a manager will also work with and get the best from what is already in place. Otherwise what is the point of a manager?

I think he has been supported in terms of signing players he wants to suit his tactics, along with dispensing with players that arn't fitting his style. Can a club, bankrolling him, maybe not inquire "Jose, are you sure this idea you have still works?" "Yeah I know you've won loads of things, but just looking around, seems to be a pattern developing everywhere else bar with us"

I have no problem with what you say once it has been the case that he has gotten all the players he wanted. I see this a lot where the manager publically comes out and thanks clubs for supporting them, but was it Harry Redknapp who said a manager will never refuse new players ? A manager of a top club saying "the club didn't buy the players I want" is going to be on their way out unless they are at SAF level of success, so I cant imagine Jose saying it publically unless he wanted to leave.

As a manager, you are told you are going to get Pogba, who wouldn't want that ? But then you start to work with the player and you find that you clash in some form or they aren't willing to work on certain levels for the team. It happens, what do you do as a manager ? Somebody pointed to Pep and Zlatan, it wasn't that Zlatan wasn't exceptional, it was that he didn't suit Peps plans.

I am not saying Jose doesn't want Pogba by the way, just using it as an example.

I suppose I feel that the club has transfer policy issues that aren't all down to managers. I do feel some players are signed for marketing and popular reasons. Its not that these aren't good players, its that they might not exactly be what the team or manager desperately needs.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

I totally get where Kirby is coming from. We can clearly see as viewers and fans, teams that go at City get some joy, and cause some panic.

The problem being, and I imagine its an absolute nightmare for opposing managers, the fear of them absolutely hammering you on the counter or just in general, if you open up to try attack them.

I think their defensive record is stemming more from the fear other teams have, and they just lock up. Needs to be acknowledged that is a result of the tactical style City use.

Where as with us, we show, normally, genuine good and strong defending individually, but also collectively. But teams feel much more comfortable attacking us than City.

And I find that mental, since our team has all the components to be a devastating counter attacking team.

Like that resonates with me, most teams actually don't mind attacking us. They clearly in their analysis feel, yeah, we are a strong and when we want devastating team, but we can also be pretty blunt and clueless in attack.

Why do you think Jose has not settled on a set 11 ? I mean, I think one season at Chelsea he played the same 10-11 for over 30 games.

I also think the opposite applies to functioning Jose teams. When they are air tight at the back and working properly , when you go 1-0 down you know you are f**ked. Its the same fear as teams worried about getting hammered by City. But it also makes teams against Top Jose sides more cautious because they know going a goal down is the end of their game.

I think if Jose gets the defence side of things sorted, the attack will sort itself out. Sounds crazy when you consider the attacking options we have available. He has also had 4 transfer windows to address this so I am not sure why this hasn't been rectified. Have injuries to Bailly been an issue ? Have they signed some players opportunistically because they were quality, would improve the squad and available but not so much priority requirements ?