Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

yourdeadwright

kona wrote: »

If palace are down players they will park 11 men inside their own half.
From what ive seen from us the last few years wed struggle to break down 11 grannys inside their own half.

They tried it against Spurs nearly worked but Spurs missed a few sitters and Mensah was there best player

jayo26

yourdeadwright wrote: »

What's wrong with that ?
Are you 12 ,you can't have a football discussion,
Its pretty much a banker for United , sets up next weekend nicely,

Mate don't ask am I 12, I of all people have tried to engage so I've no problems doing that.

My point been is everyone knows that they are no bankers in football as poor as palace are they have taken points off city this season out of nowhere!! Yoyrnown team have list to the two teams below palace so for you to come along and say out it's a banker is clearly nonsense.

Yes United are favourites and should win it but it's not a banker!!!!

PhlegmyMoses

We are also in so-so attacking form, despite a decent win % in the last 10 games. It feels like at any time we could have a similar game to the Newcastle one where all of our players collectively **** the bed in front of goal and we end up losing.

That being said, I feel like if we win this, we have CL football next year sewn up. Last time I said that was before the Spurs game, we're lucky to be in that position again so soon so let's hope we don't **** it up.

Adamocovic

Results of late have gone our way for the most part. Arsenal dropped off from the top 4 challenge and look completely out of it while Chelsea are sliding back.

With Pool on Saturday and how huge that game will be we can't allow a slip up against Palace. I know in football no result is a certainty but if we go to Palace the game before a big clash against Pool and lose I'd look at it as a disaster.

I know we haven't been great, but our major concerns are with the top teams in the league. Should be coming away with 3 points tonight and removing any worry about sliding down to 4th if next weekend doesn't go our way.

yourdeadwright

Adamocovic wrote: »

Results of late have gone our way for the most part. Arsenal dropped off from the top 4 challenge and look completely out of it while Chelsea are sliding back.

With Pool on Saturday and how huge that game will be we can't allow a slip up against Palace. I know in football no result is a certainty but if we go to Palace the game before a big clash against Pool and lose I'd look at it as a disaster.

I know we haven't been great, but our major concerns are with the top teams in the league. Should be coming away with 3 points tonight and removing any worry about sliding down to 4th if next weekend doesn't go our way.

Saturday be interesting,
I think United will sneak it 2-1 next weekend , don't trust Liverpool's defence especially Karius
I predict De Gea to be the difference but it'll be very interesting to see the approach of Jose,

Mitch Connor

I'd snap your hand off for a win tonight and a draw at the weekend.

I can't for the life of me trust our defence for that Liverpool attack.

Trigger

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Saturday be interesting,
I think United will sneak it 2-1 next weekend , don't trust Liverpool's defence especially Karius
I predict De Gea to be the difference but it'll be very interesting to see the approach of Jose,

United should set out and try to play like I always say against pool, let them have the ball and try catch them on the counter.. if we play high up the pitch we are going to get killed by yer front three..

The tactics were right in the first game, our players collectively shît the bed and couldn’t pass 5 yards

TheDoc

Hococop wrote: »

Didn't watch the full time report but half time they weren't that critical maybe they changed their tune at full time

They were pretty scathing in the aftermatch, as was Neville during the game.

Felt like a team to me that wants their manager gone. Some of the walking on the pitch, weird Neville didnt lose his **** over it.

I do get somewhat annoyed at how the way so many teams, including ourselves, just play into City's hands.

They have a lightweight midfield, and a pretty dismal defence. The collective loss of balls in the league makes it so dreary and rubbish to watch at times.

Trigger

TheDoc wrote: »

They were pretty scathing in the aftermatch, as was Neville during the game.

Felt like a team to me that wants their manager gone. Some of the walking on the pitch, weird Neville didnt lose his **** over it.

I do get somewhat annoyed at how the way so many teams, including ourselves, just play into City's hands.

They have a lightweight midfield, and a pretty dismal defence. The collective loss of balls in the league makes it so dreary and rubbish to watch at times.

I’d be fuming with this when trailing 1-0 with 15 mins plus injury time to go

https://twitter.com/adamnewson/status/970371572056969216?s=21

TheDoc

astradave wrote: »

I’d be fuming with this when trailing 1-0 with 15 mins plus injury time to go

https://twitter.com/davydavymcdaid/status/970415717622452224?s=21

Yeah there was little passage of Fabregas that seems to have been doing the rounds.

At a point I wouldn't overly blame him. Must be **** playing that type of football when you have the ability he does.

Footballers of that calibre and level, they just arn't going to be 100% with it, when not playing on the front foot and feeling like they can express themselves. Footballers at that level require so much mental strength and self belief. They don't want to believe any other team is better then them, or they need to change their entire characteristics to tailor against another team.

Where I feel a lot of our problems sometimes come from.

Like we can probably all relate to it. A five aside your getting pounced in, you start losing interest. A game we are watching when the team is cruising, we lose interest. I remember so many games standing up front on my own getting balls hoofed to me. You chase a few, then you just stop. You just arn't going to be interested doing things totally against what you know your good at.

It's all cool taking one for the team, but a manager that isn't building and playing to the teams strengths and desires, well it likely just isnt going to last long.

Part of the reason I believe Wenger has been hanging on so long. And if it does turn into the players throwing in the towel(laughable on their part I believe, considering the manager constantly sticks by them and takes all the flak) its likely down to them just being like "ugh we wont ever win anything". He has always played a style that has tried to have his players on the front foot, doing what they like and instinctively are good at

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jayo26 wrote: »

Pool fans coming in talking about certain 3 points haha gotta love them.

Do you guys not report these guys for trolling? You seem to have this almost fetish-like addiction to masochism. (Out of interest, though - who was it? Although I could almost guess....)

Pool fan here for the record - would slightly more optimisitic than this time last year, I'd still take a point right now.

yourdeadwright

astradave wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Saturday be interesting,
I think United will sneak it 2-1 next weekend , don't trust Liverpool's defence especially Karius
I predict De Gea to be the difference but it'll be very interesting to see the approach of Jose,

United should set out and try to play like I always say against pool, let them have the ball and try catch them on the counter.. if we play high up the pitch we are going to get killed by yer front three..

The tactics were right in the first game, our players collectively shît the bed and couldn’t pass 5 yards

Going into the first game United where flying and Liverpool had 1 win in 7 games and it was a scrappy 3-2 away to the foxes where they missed a peno late on, 
I think if you let us have as much of the ball this time it will cost you as we are playing miles better ,
I also can't see Jose letting us have it as much at your place ,

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

They were pretty scathing in the aftermatch, as was Neville during the game.

Felt like a team to me that wants their manager gone. Some of the walking on the pitch, weird Neville didnt lose his **** over it.

I do get somewhat annoyed at how the way so many teams, including ourselves, just play into City's hands.

They have a lightweight midfield, and a pretty dismal defence. The collective loss of balls in the league makes it so dreary and rubbish to watch at times.

Their defense is hardly dismal now in fairness.

Their keeper is probably the 2nd or 3rd best in the league after de gea.

Walker, otamendi laporte and stones are also all very good and thats not even including the world class mendy who is injured or kompany

Also lightweight midfield?????

Bret Hart

Match Thread up.

S.M.B.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I just hope we stick with the same shape as vs Chelsea.

Would like to see:

---

De Gea
Valencia-Bailly-Smalling-Shaw
-McTominay-Matic-Pogba
Sanchez-Lukaku-Rashford.

Seemingly Martial didn't travel with the squad this morning, but could be making his own way.

Jose said he had the same squad as against Chelsea but there's been a few mentions of Martial not travelling with the squad too.

I'm interested to see if the formation ends up being as above or closer to a diamond as in the Chelsea game with Lukaku and Rashford playing closer together up to.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Their defense is hardly dismal now in fairness.

Their keeper is probably the 2nd or 3rd best in the league after de gea.

Walker, otamendi laporte and stones are also all very good and thats not even including the world class mendy who is injured or kompany

Also lightweight midfield?????

I think it is, just a pattern of fear has developed where everyone just concedes the entire pitch to them.

Laporte has not been tested since he arrived, and Otamendi is Otamendi. Stones is still stones. And yeah, a midfield three that contains De Bruyne and Silva, is lightweight.

Everyone just concedes ground to them, and I understand why, but the teams that have done well against them, have had much braver gameplans to try get at their defence. It's becoming pretty evident from just watching City that yeah they absolutely swarm you, but for rivals, with equally good players, they should be confident of playing through midfield where there will be little physical resistance and move up the pitch as a team.

Their pressing is so evidently successful because everyone plays into their hands, camping in their own half where there is less ground to cover for more players.

I know its a case of easier said then done, but I'd expect more from Premier League level teams and managers. Whatever about City being an excellent team, and they are. They are by no means this greatest team we have ever seen imo, and a large part of their title walk this term has been teams rolling over in front of them. You can even equate it back to when we had teams beat under Ferguson before we took to the field. Every now and then a team would come through us or at us and we would have serious problems.

The issue is getting over the fear of potentially taking a hammering, or losing. I'll never understand this containment plan teams use against a team that good in the press and attack, but have weakness' in their defence and midfield.

Surely teams can have a go and if it backfires shore up shop with a tactical change to limit the damage. Like yesterdays game, apart from obviously trying to nick a 0-0, I see no benefit what so ever that provides to Chelsea players or fans. Might as well get beat 4-1,5-2, 6-3, but atleast have your players on the front foot, and trying to score and attack.

Always seems to me to be no pay-off for that approach, and approach that we would use as well, unless you nick a 1-0, which is so difficult and unlikely, as opposed to being able to appreciate your team at least went out and tried going toe to toe. And who knows how they will cope or react to having someone put it up to them. This City team has been criminally under tested

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I think it is, just a pattern of fear has developed where everyone just concedes the entire pitch to them.

Laporte has not been tested since he arrived, and Otamendi is Otamendi. Stones is still stones. And yeah, a midfield three that contains De Bruyne and Silva, is lightweight.

Everyone just concedes ground to them, and I understand why, but the teams that have done well against them, have had much braver gameplans to try get at their defence. It's becoming pretty evident from just watching City that yeah they absolutely swarm you, but for rivals, with equally good players, they should be confident of playing through midfield where there will be little physical resistance and move up the pitch as a team.

Their pressing is so evidently successful because everyone plays into their hands, camping in their own half where there is less ground to cover for more players.

I know its a case of easier said then done, but I'd expect more from Premier League level teams and managers. Whatever about City being an excellent team, and they are. They are by no means this greatest team we have ever seen imo, and a large part of their title walk this term has been teams rolling over in front of them. You can even equate it back to when we had teams beat under Ferguson before we took to the field. Every now and then a team would come through us or at us and we would have serious problems.

The issue is getting over the fear of potentially taking a hammering, or losing. I'll never understand this containment plan teams use against a team that good in the press and attack, but have weakness' in their defence and midfield.

Surely teams can have a go and if it backfires shore up shop with a tactical change to limit the damage. Like yesterdays game, apart from obviously trying to nick a 0-0, I see no benefit what so ever that provides to Chelsea players or fans. Might as well get beat 4-1,5-2, 6-3, but atleast have your players on the front foot, and trying to score and attack.

Always seems to me to be no pay-off for that approach, and approach that we would use as well, unless you nick a 1-0, which is so difficult and unlikely, as opposed to being able to appreciate your team at least went out and tried going toe to toe. And who knows how they will cope or react to having someone put it up to them. This City team has been criminally under tested

Ah come on, "a midfield 3 that contains silva and de bruyne" 2 midfielders that would walk onto most teams in the world.

Otamendi is otamendi, stones is stones what does that even mean? The 2 of them would be first choice if they were at united

Your Airbag

TheDoc wrote: »

I think it is, just a pattern of fear has developed where everyone just concedes the entire pitch to them.

Laporte has not been tested since he arrived, and Otamendi is Otamendi. Stones is still stones. And yeah, a midfield three that contains De Bruyne and Silva, is lightweight.

Everyone just concedes ground to them, and I understand why, but the teams that have done well against them, have had much braver gameplans to try get at their defence. It's becoming pretty evident from just watching City that yeah they absolutely swarm you, but for rivals, with equally good players, they should be confident of playing through midfield where there will be little physical resistance and move up the pitch as a team.

Their pressing is so evidently successful because everyone plays into their hands, camping in their own half where there is less ground to cover for more players.

I know its a case of easier said then done, but I'd expect more from Premier League level teams and managers. Whatever about City being an excellent team, and they are. They are by no means this greatest team we have ever seen imo, and a large part of their title walk this term has been teams rolling over in front of them. You can even equate it back to when we had teams beat under Ferguson before we took to the field. Every now and then a team would come through us or at us and we would have serious problems.

The issue is getting over the fear of potentially taking a hammering, or losing. I'll never understand this containment plan teams use against a team that good in the press and attack, but have weakness' in their defence and midfield.

Surely teams can have a go and if it backfires shore up shop with a tactical change to limit the damage. Like yesterdays game, apart from obviously trying to nick a 0-0, I see no benefit what so ever that provides to Chelsea players or fans. Might as well get beat 4-1,5-2, 6-3, but atleast have your players on the front foot, and trying to score and attack.

Always seems to me to be no pay-off for that approach, and approach that we would use as well, unless you nick a 1-0, which is so difficult and unlikely, as opposed to being able to appreciate your team at least went out and tried going toe to toe. And who knows how they will cope or react to having someone put it up to them. This City team has been criminally under tested

Brushing away what City have done this season cause teams just let them beat them? C'mon, be realistic. They are on top because they deserve to be, they outplay the majority of teams they face. Some teams have tried to chase them down and got beaten, a big part of City's plan is to pull a team out of position and get between the lines. If you decide to hold your ground they are happy to spend 90 mins picking you apart that way too.

The main reason the City midfield and defense is so untested is because teams can't get the ball from them.

Cantona's Collars

Bret Hart wrote: »

Match Thread up.

That'll be somewhere for the Liverpool fans to go to tonight.

jayo26

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

That'll be somewhere for the Neutrals to go to tonight.

FYP

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Ah come on, "a midfield 3 that contains silva and de bruyne" 2 midfielders that would walk onto most teams in the world.

Otamendi is otamendi, stones is stones what does that even mean? The 2 of them would be first choice if they were at united

I don't think your understanding what I mean when I say lightweight.

I don't see De Bruyne and Silva being able to cope with oncoming midfields or players, relating to interceptions or tackles. Or coming out tops in any physical battle.

Silva is a well known at this stage, brutal at tackling and a very cynical player.

That's what I mean by lightweight. I don't believe they could cope with continuous play through the middle, as they do to other teams.

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

Brushing away what City have done this season cause teams just let them beat them? C'mon, be realistic. They are on top because they deserve to be, they outplay the majority of teams they face. Some teams have tried to chase them down and got beaten, a big part of City's plan is to pull a team out of position and get between the lines. If you decide to hold your ground they are happy to spend 90 mins picking you apart that way too.

The main reason the City midfield and defense is so untested is because teams can't get the ball from them.

I'm not brushing away their achievements. They are a quality team.

I'm just saying it's greatly helping how opposition teams are feeling the fear, deploying a type of tactic, that plays EXACTLY into their hands.

It's also credit to their manager, it's pretty brilliant I think.

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm not brushing away their achievements. They are a quality team.

I'm just saying it's greatly helping how opposition teams are feeling the fear, deploying a type of tactic, that plays EXACTLY into their hands.

It's also credit to their manager, it's pretty brilliant I think.

People just looking for things to jump on there is no harm I what you said it was said about United for years that teams were beaten before they came to old Trafford but shock horror if you say it about city or diminish what they have done.

Also agree with you about there midfield it is strong when given room and time to play but do what pool did to them and they buckled.

Cantona's Collars

Klopp got his ass handed to him by City,when they played them again,his players didn't stand back and admire the pretty passing and got stuck in,lo and behold they forced mistakes and profited from them. Any team can look like superstars if you stand back and gawk at them or at best stroll around the pitch and not even close them down.

TitianGerm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Klopp got his ass handed to him by City,when they played them again,his players didn't stand back and admire the pretty passing and got stuck in,lo and behold they forced mistakes and profited from them. Any team can look like superstars if you stand back and gawk at them or at best stroll around the pitch and not even close them down.

Actually it was a very even game up to Mane been sent off, most people would have said Liverpool were slightly ahead at that point.

When Mane did get sent off it looked as off the players heads just dropped and all the good work up to that point was forgotten.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't think your understanding what I mean when I say lightweight.

I don't see De Bruyne and Silva being able to cope with oncoming midfields or players, relating to interceptions or tackles. Or coming out tops in any physical battle.

Silva is a well known at this stage, brutal at tackling and a very cynical player.

That's what I mean by lightweight. I don't believe they could cope with continuous play through the middle, as they do to other teams.

i know what exactly what you mean and i dont agree with it.

one of the greatest ever midfields contained xavi and iniesta, both 5'6 and 5'7

paul scholes was 5'6, you could say he was a bit like silva brutal at tackling and a very cynical player but he was a fantastic player

kante is 5'6

see what im getting at??

other teams are not good enough to go through the middle against them as they will get totally outplayed.

im actually dreading our game against them

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

People just looking for things to jump on there is no harm I what you said it was said about United for years that teams were beaten before they came to old Trafford but shock horror if you say it about city or diminish what they have done.

Also agree with you about there midfield it is strong when given room and time to play but do what pool did to them and they buckled.

liverpools attack is one of the best in europe, if our attack was anything like theirs we could take it to city but its not, we are currently just a team of individuals

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

People just looking for things to jump on there is no harm I what you said it was said about United for years that teams were beaten before they came to old Trafford but shock horror if you say it about city or diminish what they have done.

Also agree with you about there midfield it is strong when given room and time to play but do what pool did to them and they buckled.

Look how we all flagged, discussed to death and raised concerns about our midfield for years, just papering the cracks. Then when there was no more paper, teams shed the fear and just got brave against us, and we got punished.

And we are still reeling from that, teams don't fear us, they feel they can get at us, they feel they can get results. And that is bourne out with some sloppy results this season and last, and the season before that and before that.

That "fear" that was built over 15 years was gone in about 15 weeks.

Just saying, and I think, it shouldn't be underestimated what a bloody nose can do to a team, but also everyone else. There is very little inventiveness that actually goes on, it's more about managers being strong enough to copy something that they have seen work elsewhere.

Like every great team or team in great form, someone gives them a dig, and everyone else goes "oh ****" and start to toy with the idea of doing it themselves. You see it happen a lot with successful tactics and play styles, but it equally happens with tactics for opponents.

At the moment I think we are very much on the phase of "ah **** this, City are too good, I'm not getting embarrassed here" in terms of managers thinking.

Adamocovic

I understand why people want to downplay how good the City team, but reality is they are a class above everyone else in the league this season. That's down to any combination of them playing better football, better squad, better tactics, just the whole package.

Can't get on board with this opinion that they are only doing as well as they are because "teams are letting them" and use this to diminish how much talent they have. Ridiculous in my eyes. I suppose Barcelona and Bayern Munich aren't all that more talented either, must only be doing well because teams are afraid of them too and letting them have the ball.

The reason most teams don't take the game to City is because City have shown to have the talent to rip a team apart if they become unorganised on defence. Even when Liverpool did brilliantly against City they had less than 40% possession.

If we can't recognise a team who is 18 points clear after 29 games, has won 78 points out of a possible 87, and has a goal difference of +63, while playing in the PL as being a world class team then the criteria set for that status is outrageous. Some may argue that the rest of the top 6 is making them look better than they are, if this helps you so be it, but in a league where the winner normally finishes within the 80-90 points window to have 78 points with a possible 27 points still up for grabs, that is outrageously good.

Anyway, the goal is to get a top 4, and ultimately finishing 2nd would be brilliant. Can worry about shortening the gap between ourselves and City when the season is over. Will be interesting to see what state we are in when we face them next month.

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

liverpools attack is one of the best in europe, if our attack was anything like theirs we could take it to city but its not, we are currently just a team of individuals

Their attackers close down defenders,this forces hurried passes and mistakes which they pounce on. It's not rocket science yet so many teams drop off to keep a defensive shape.
Look at old video of our teams and yes we played swashbuckling football but we also worked like demons to win the ball back.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

i know what exactly what you mean and i dont agree with it.

one of the greatest ever midfields contained xavi and iniesta, both 5'6 and 5'7

paul scholes was 5'6, you could say he was a bit like silva brutal at tackling and a very cynical player but he was a fantastic player

kante is 5'6

see what im getting at??

other teams are not good enough to go through the middle against them as they will get totally outplayed.

im actually dreading our game against them

That's cool, we just won't agree on it.

I'd from my POV mention that that Iniesta and Xavi where the same manager, with the same tactic. And eventually it was worked out, and they got bloody noses. And those typically came from teams who were brave enough to get at their questionable defence.

I think it also helped they had Busquests who while I don't like him, have to give him credit for being a top DM for a period.

Scholes was in plenty of midfield setups that got over run, run through, bossed etc. But did we ever pair him with Cleverly? He typically had someone beside him up to the task. And we typically had strong defences to cope.

Kante is clearly a very physical player with a tremendous engine.

Either I'm not stating my thought clearly, you are assuming I'm downplaying their ability and jumping on that, or we are just going to agree.

But I won't be shocked to see City get a bloody nose in the CL as it progresses, when they play a team that won't be paying them massive respect or fearing them. I'm not saying btw that West Brom etc. should grow a pair and go on the offensive, that is obviously going to end one way.

I'm talking with the context of yesterday, how we would typically line up against them, and just how that "fear factor" is playing perfectly into their hands which is massive credit to their manager.

But at some point I expect, or would expect, the top managers of big clubs, to try something else, or work it out.

Adamocovic

jayo26 wrote: »

People just looking for things to jump on there is no harm I what you said it was said about United for years that teams were beaten before they came to old Trafford but shock horror if you say it about city or diminish what they have done.

Maybe I disagree with a lot of United fans but it's the highlighted point here that actually makes me wonder why so many fans would say this stuff about City.

I know being a fan leads to biased opinions, but surely as a footballing fan if someone has argued against the opinion that United teams in the past were dominant because others stepped off and just allowed them to play, then I don't see they can argue for this opinion against City.

Great teams will find themselves in passages of domination. City are currently in one. Hopefully it doesn't last long however.

TheDoc

Adamocovic wrote: »

I understand why people want to downplay how good the City team, but reality is they are a class above everyone else in the league this season. That's down to any combination of them playing better football, better squad, better tactics, just the whole package.

Can't get on board with this opinion that they are only doing as well as they are because "teams are letting them" and use this to diminish how much talent they have. Ridiculous in my eyes.

That's not the point I'm making at all, and think I've been very clear.

I'm just outlining that I do find their title procession a little annoying, considering most teams are playing exactly to what suits their key strengths.

I think I can make that point while also appreciating the quality and standard of the team.

I don't believe for a second they are that better then us,as the table would suggest, but I'm not going into that aspect as it just brings up "that" debate and point from me, which is no use in me being involved in anymore

TheDoc

Adamocovic wrote: »

Maybe I disagree with a lot of United fans but it's the highlighted point here that actually makes me wonder why so many fans would say this stuff about City.

I know being a fan leads to biased opinions, but surely as a footballing fan if someone has argued against the opinion that United teams in the past were dominant because others stepped off and just allowed them to play, then I don't see they can argue for this opinion against City.

Great teams will find themselves in passages of domination. City are currently in one. Hopefully it doesn't last long however.

I've definitely written a post today where I correlated it as being similar to what happened with us for so long.

Auroras_encore

TitianGerm wrote: »

Actually it was a very even game up to Mane been sent off, most people would have said Liverpool were slightly ahead at that point.

When Mane did get sent off it looked as off the players heads just dropped and all the good work up to that point was forgotten.

Ahh this age old myth peddled by delusional Liverpool fans, yas were 1-0 down when mane was rightly sent off! So where were they "slightly ahead" hahaha

Adamocovic

TheDoc wrote: »

That's not the point I'm making at all, and think I've been very clear.

I'm just outlining that I do find their title procession a little annoying, considering most teams are playing exactly to what suits their key strengths.

I think I can make that point while also appreciating the quality and standard of the team.

I don't believe for a second they are that better then us,as the table would suggest, but I'm not going into that aspect as it just brings up "that" debate and point from me, which is no use in me being involved in anymore

That's fair enough Doc. I'm under the impression that teams are taking on defensive approaches as damage limitation due to their quality, and believe if more teams did take on more high tempo, closing down and attacking football they would leave themselves easily exposed to be exploited by City's quality passers. But then again impressions are what they are.

And for the final bit, I've said myself I don't think the gulf in class in terms of players is that much different between our two teams, however the gulf in class as a whole is very big this season. But yeah, think that debate may tiring me out before the game!

Hopefully we will get a good result today to discuss rather than falling back into the old arguments.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

That's cool, we just won't agree on it.

I'd from my POV mention that that Iniesta and Xavi where the same manager, with the same tactic. And eventually it was worked out, and they got bloody noses. And those typically came from teams who were brave enough to get at their questionable defence.

I think it also helped they had Busquests who while I don't like him, have to give him credit for being a top DM for a period.

Scholes was in plenty of midfield setups that got over run, run through, bossed etc. But did we ever pair him with Cleverly? He typically had someone beside him up to the task. And we typically had strong defences to cope.

Kante is clearly a very physical player with a tremendous engine.

Either I'm not stating my thought clearly, you are assuming I'm downplaying their ability and jumping on that, or we are just going to agree.

But I won't be shocked to see City get a bloody nose in the CL as it progresses, when they play a team that won't be paying them massive respect or fearing them. I'm not saying btw that West Brom etc. should grow a pair and go on the offensive, that is obviously going to end one way.

I'm talking with the context of yesterday, how we would typically line up against them, and just how that "fear factor" is playing perfectly into their hands which is massive credit to their manager.

But at some point I expect, or would expect, the top managers of big clubs, to try something else, or work it out.

if we went man for man against city the way both clubs are playing right now, there would be only one outcome and it would not be pretty for us. if city avoid madrid/barca i can see them getting to the final this year in champions league

yourdeadwright

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

bangkok wrote: »

liverpools attack is one of the best in europe, if our attack was anything like theirs we could take it to city but its not, we are currently just a team of individuals

Their attackers close down defenders,this forces hurried passes and mistakes which they pounce on. It's not rocket science yet so many teams drop off to keep a defensive shape.
Look at old video of our teams and yes we played swashbuckling football but we also worked like demons to win the ball back.

It really isn't that simple ,
 Liverpool's press is something they work at all preseason, Its actually very complicated and one of the reason's the likes of x and Robertson had to wait so long to be introduced to the starting 11 .
You have to have a trigger player , know exactly when to go , exactly when to stay ,what position to take up as a midfielder depending on who start's the press, its not just about going out and closing down defenders.
Its brilliant but its also a reason why Liverpool suffer in other area's as they spend so much time on getting it correct,
Thinking United can just go close down like Liverpool , Is the same as saying Liverpool can just go defend like United, its not that simple and take hours of coaching ,
It just happens that the one thing Klopp is at master coaching his side to do is the one way to stop City ,

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

if we went man for man against city the way both clubs are playing right now, there would be only one outcome and it would not be pretty for us. if city avoid madrid/barca i can see them getting to the final this year in champions league

Must....resist....saying....my...thing...

jayo26

For the record I never said or downplayed the city team same as I don't downplay the pool attack but I will say it again wait until they actually achieve greatness before they are fawned over.

Its constantly the same thing In here blow up rivals while constantly downplaying what our own team has done.

People in here can stand back and objectively praise other teams and discuss them but when same people discuss our own team they can't do the same.

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It really isn't that simple ,
 Liverpool's press is something they work at all preseason, Its actually very complicated and one of the reason's the likes of x and Robertson had to wait so long to be introduced to the starting 11 .
You have to have a trigger player , know exactly when to go , exactly when to stay ,what position to take up as a midfielder depending on who start's the press, its not just about going out and closing down defenders.
Its brilliant but its also a reason why Liverpool suffer in other area's as they spend so much time on getting it correct,
Thinking United can just go close down like Liverpool , Is the same as saying Liverpool can just go defend like United, its not that simple and take hours of coaching ,
It just happens that the one thing Klopp is at master coaching his side to do is the one way to stop City ,

its hard to know exactly what we worked at all preseason..:o

yourdeadwright

Auroras_encore wrote: »

TitianGerm wrote: »

Actually it was a very even game up to Mane been sent off, most people would have said Liverpool were slightly ahead at that point.

When Mane did get sent off it looked as off the players heads just dropped and all the good work up to that point was forgotten.

Ahh this age old myth peddled by delusional Liverpool fans, yas were 1-0 down when mane was rightly sent off! So where were they "slightly ahead" hahaha

How it delusional ,
Liverpool started on the front foot Salah missed a sitter then a Kalavan mistake gave them the lead  it was a good game, But when he got sent off and rightly so then City hammered them,
Nothing delusional there just the way it happened

brinty

bangkok wrote: »

its hard to know exactly what we worked at all preseason..:o

parking the bus ye tulip

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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brinty

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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Yes he should be given more time. Managers getting three seasons and out is no way to run a club.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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Adamcp898

He'll get more time so long as there's a more concerted title challenge. When the dust settles in the Summer people will realise just how far ahead of everyone City are and factor that into the equation.

bangkok

Adamcp898 wrote: »

He'll get more time so long as there's a more concerted title challenge. When the dust settles in the Summer people will realise just how far ahead of everyone City are and factor that into the equation.

do you not think considering the money we have spent, we should be a lot closer and definitely we should be playing better football than we are??

Adamcp898

bangkok wrote: »

do you not think considering the money we have spent, we should be a lot closer and definitely we should be playing better football than we are??

This is what I mean about when the dust settles after the season is done. What City have done and the manner in which they're doing it has been extraordinary. You can stick anyone in Europe in the league with them this year and noone would've been able to keep pace, they've been in cruise control since xmas.

The football however should be better yes; but even as agricultural as we are at times we still would've been a lot closer to a league title in other years and noone would be batting an eyelid. Take the Sevilla result as an example of Jose getting his desired result, which has created an excuse for the performance in a way, because it was the least effective "Mourinho" away leg European performance I think I've seen given that we came to sit back and absorb pressure against a team in woeful form but instead of a comfortable scoreless draw we should've been tonked with the chances we conceded.

Mitch Connor

In the early part of the season it did appear that United were pushing and attacking more, and better. Since the City/Liverpool matches it is lack that approach has been forgotten about and we have gone back to just hoping something clicks.