Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In the early part of the season it did appear that United were pushing and attacking more, and better. Since the City/Liverpool matches it is lack that approach has been forgotten about and we have gone back to just hoping something clicks.

up until we played liverpool away we were flying it, after that game we just never recovered. we should have taken that game to liverpool. it was the worst 90mins of football i have ever sat through

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

Yes he should be given more time. Managers getting three seasons and out is no way to run a club.

Maybe in a generation gone by, but it's very much how clubs are run now, for better or worse. And there are arguments for and against.

Obviously the demand for success and expectations has shortened, and that's not by clubs, but by us, as fans.

I think three season its totally adequate to provide a manager ample time to build his squad, develop his methods and imprint what he wants, and to achieve the goals and targets set by the club.

If I ran a club, I'd hand out three year contracts. Granted I wouldn't be into this paying off people to clear them out early. And wouldn't be into this offering a new contract ahead of time unless the success has been clearly substantial early on.

You've three years, unless your a complete mess of a manger and I need to sack you earlier because you've forced my hand.

A problem I have with the state of the game at the moment is the safety first approach and the lack of creativity and inventiveness taking place in the manager circuit. And I understand why. No one gets an opportunity to resolve the slump they fall into. You hit the slump and your done, you rarely get the opportunity (outside the top 4) to manage your way out of the problems you have found yourself in.

What could Moyes have done differently in a second season?
What could Van Gaal done in his third season?

All interesting thoughts that we will simply never find out. A manager hits a slump, gets fired, is considered ****, and then need to claw their way back into the game somehow.

Granted it doesn't help that some managers are pure stubborn and wont learn from their mistakes or show any adaptability, as they see it as admitting they were wrong and see that as a weakness.

I'm looking at Allardyce at Everton as the main candidate of this at the moment. Blew his shot at the big time with England, has been given another lifeline, and is happy to run it into the ground along with his reputation and any possibility of achieving anything of note in the game, by sticking by his stubborn ways and not being adaptable, and blaming the players for his shortcomings.

Mitch Connor

I do think a lack of rotation in midfield has been a problem for us - I think part of what had us looking good at the start of the season was the amount of work Matic was getting through (in a two man midfield with Pogba). I think as his energy levels and performances have dropped off, it has effected the whole team.

I think a lack of rotation for Matic and Lukaku (we have the options but not the willingness to rotate Lukaku) have hampered us.

I also wonder if Pogba hadn't missed so many games how that could have effected things - we lost cohesion and creativity with him gone, and that knocked the results and performances.

Delboy5

Miguel Delaney
@MiguelDelaney

Matic, McTominay and Pogba in centre for United tonight. Mourinho seems to have settled on best team, bar right-hand side - where Lingard starts tonight. Young left-back again.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In the early part of the season it did appear that United were pushing and attacking more, and better. Since the City/Liverpool matches it is lack that approach has been forgotten about and we have gone back to just hoping something clicks.

The start of the season is still a bit of a puzzle to me.

Was it pure fluke, just all the attacking bits clicking, and since they havn't except for moments or spurts?
Was it by design, and we have had to adapt to dips in form?
Was it showing just what Mhikitaryian could give the team, or was he's form inconsequential.

Our lineups are typically aggressive and offensive. We have a wealth of options to be picking from. I think part of the problem is there isn't a stable attack in terms of players, and how can we ever develop patterns or understanding. The manager operates this weird method of if your not doing it, someone else comes in next game or whatever.

Like how long were we waiting to see Martial and Mhiki in the team together last year flanking Zlatan, and when we did it looked good and I believe we had a nice little spurt, then form dipped below what the manager would accept and it got torn up.

We literally can never say with certainty what our XI will look like week to week. And while sure, its a squad game, you need to have some stability in your selection to develop patterns and understanding. Sure rotate in some games, but you are changing one or two players in a settled side.

Feels every few weeks it's a different defence and attacking combo. Like the only certainties are :

De Gea, Valencia, Matic, Pogba(Can we even say that anymore?), Sanchez, Lukaku.

Obviously what it needs is some players to hit some **** hot form so they can't be dropped, and there be some stability for a good run of games. Or, alternatively, the manager persisting with some players to let them play back into form.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe in a generation gone by, but it's very much how clubs are run now, for better or worse. And there are arguments for and against.

Obviously the demand for success and expectations has shortened, and that's not by clubs, but by us, as fans.

I think three season its totally adequate to provide a manager ample time to build his squad, develop his methods and imprint what he wants, and to achieve the goals and targets set by the club.

If I ran a club, I'd hand out three year contracts. Granted I wouldn't be into this paying off people to clear them out early. And wouldn't be into this offering a new contract ahead of time unless the success has been clearly substantial early on.

You've three years, unless your a complete mess of a manger and I need to sack you earlier because you've forced my hand.

A problem I have with the state of the game at the moment is the safety first approach and the lack of creativity and inventiveness taking place in the manager circuit. And I understand why. No one gets an opportunity to resolve the slump they fall into. You hit the slump and your done, you rarely get the opportunity (outside the top 4) to manage your way out of the problems you have found yourself in.

What could Moyes have done differently in a second season?
What could Van Gaal done in his third season?

All interesting thoughts that we will simply never find out. A manager hits a slump, gets fired, is considered ****, and then need to claw their way back into the game somehow.

Granted it doesn't help that some managers are pure stubborn and wont learn from their mistakes or show any adaptability, as they see it as admitting they were wrong and see that as a weakness.

I'm looking at Allardyce at Everton as the main candidate of this at the moment. Blew his shot at the big time with England, has been given another lifeline, and is happy to run it into the ground along with his reputation and any possibility of achieving anything of note in the game, by sticking by his stubborn ways and not being adaptable, and blaming the players for his shortcomings.

I could see an arguement for Moyes getting a second season - based on him not being given any chance to build a United squad himself.

LVG brought in:

Romero, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Blind, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Memphis, Martial, Di Maria, Falcao, Darmian.

I don't feel the results or performances in the second season were a good enough indicator of forward progression of the squad and play in terms of quality to get a third season.

If United kicked Jose out at the end of this season I could understand it - right now he is giving us (and we are quite uninformed) any reason to think United will be a better football side next season. We will likely be a more expensively assembled one, but will our play show more intent and risk? Will it show more thought and cohesion up front? Will we look better at the back?

Honestly, I'd be lying if I said I was confident of seeing the improvements required - I don't think we are much different now than 12 months ago, and that is a huge problem.

Mitch Connor

Delboy5 wrote: »

Miguel Delaney
@MiguelDelaney

Matic, McTominay and Pogba in centre for United tonight. Mourinho seems to have settled on best team, bar right-hand side - where Lingard starts tonight. Young left-back again.

ASHLEY FOOKING YOUNG.... WHY? JUST PLAY SHAW.:mad:

Adamcp898

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In the early part of the season it did appear that United were pushing and attacking more, and better. Since the City/Liverpool matches it is lack that approach has been forgotten about and we have gone back to just hoping something clicks.

A lot of things changed around that Liverpool game, Mourinho went from imo probably planning to play all three of Pogba, Matic, and Fellaini and essentially bully a Liverpool side to first losing Pogba to injury and then Fellaini in the international break before it. I'm convinced we would've approached that game totally differently if we had been able to exploit the physical size of our squad.

yourdeadwright

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In the early part of the season it did appear that United were pushing and attacking more, and better. Since the City/Liverpool matches it is lack that approach has been forgotten about and we have gone back to just hoping something clicks.

A lot of things changed around that Liverpool game, Mourinho went from imo probably planning to play all three of Pogba, Matic, and Fellaini and essentially bully a Liverpool side to first losing Pogba to injury and then Fellaini in the international break before it. I'm convinced we would've approached that game totally differently if we had been able to exploit the physical size of our squad.

I think Liverpool will target Pogba's side next week 
Its the side OX breaks from and also Salah, I'll be surprised to see Pogba on the left of the midfield next Saturday  .

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I could see an arguement for Moyes getting a second season - based on him not being given any chance to build a United squad himself.

LVG brought in:

Romero, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Blind, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Memphis, Martial, Di Maria, Falcao, Darmian.

I don't feel the results or performances in the second season were a good enough indicator of forward progression of the squad and play in terms of quality to get a third season.

If United kicked Jose out at the end of this season I could understand it - right now he is giving us (and we are quite uninformed) any reason to think United will be a better football side next season. We will likely be a more expensively assembled one, but will our play show more intent and risk? Will it show more thought and cohesion up front? Will we look better at the back?

Honestly, I'd be lying if I said I was confident of seeing the improvements required - I don't think we are much different now than 12 months ago, and that is a huge problem.

Where I've been since last year, where I was genuinely questioning why we binned Van Gaal

But as much as I dislike Mourinho in all aspects, I'm not stupid to recognise he is, or was, a brilliant manager.

Somewhat like the issue I had with Van Gaal, I don't feel I'm seeing the real Jose Mourinho. I don't feel like I have seen it. I think a pod I listened to recently perfectly encapsulated this by stating as managers continue longer and longer, they become parodies of themselves. They spend their time defending their methods so much, they get tunnel visioned into "proving" to people how their method works, as opposed to exploring others.

So that is becomes less about United winning, but ensuring United wins the "Jose way".

Mourinho is a very intelligent, highly innovative and was a brilliant coach. I always harp back to his Chelsea MKI because I'd just never seen anything like it before. It was a machine, that played good football, had great players, and I'd be absolutely freaked everytime we played them. Just a constructive onslaught that dominated games and had everything.

I'll never like, get over my dislike for him, but a massive issue I have at the moment, similar to Van Gaal ,is I'm just not seeing the inventiveness, the risks, trying something new. All I'm seeing is a persistence in a method not working, where I question if it's actually the manager believing it will work, or he just wants to prove to "the haters" it can work.

And if there is too much pride there to adopt or try something that "looks" like it will be copying another manager or team.

TheDoc

I'm sorry, I've gone down that Jose path, but don't get angry, I'm sorry

Delboy5

Delboy5 wrote: »

Miguel Delaney
@MiguelDelaney

Matic, McTominay and Pogba in centre for United tonight. Mourinho seems to have settled on best team, bar right-hand side - where Lingard starts tonight. Young left-back again.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

ASHLEY FOOKING YOUNG.... WHY? JUST PLAY SHAW.:mad:

I've been hoping its part of some programme to manage Shaw's game time or something to ensure he keeps injury free.

Because playing Ashley Young hasnt made sense in absolute months now.

Yeah cool, he played a game and whipped in a nice cross for Lukaku. As Young always does. A game or two to remind you he was a decent player at some point, but is just a total "meh" player more often than not.

Like jesus christ if you want some delivery from LB put in ****ing Blind, might be able to dust him off and take him off the shelf at some point (I know hes injured at the moment).

I'd maybe hope the high praise Jose has given Shaw before he then drops him the proceeding week, is an indication Shaw knows there is some plan in place about his gametime and he's not like "What the ****" each time this happens.

Adamcp898

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Liverpool will target Pogba's side next week 
Its the side OX breaks from and also Salah, I'll be surprised to see Pogba on the left of the midfield next Saturday  .

There was no playing three in midfield lark first time around though :pac: It would've been a two of Matic and Fellaini with Pogba in front of them. Then with Lukaku and any two of Mkhi, Mata, Martial, or Rashford. This was still a Liverpool side and particularly defense that looked like they could be physically got at.

TheDoc wrote: »

Where I've been since last year, where I was genuinely questioning why we binned Van Gaal

But as much as I dislike Mourinho in all aspects, I'm not stupid to recognise he is, or was, a brilliant manager.

Somewhat like the issue I had with Van Gaal, I don't feel I'm seeing the real Jose Mourinho. I don't feel like I have seen it. I think a pod I listened to recently perfectly encapsulated this by stating as managers continue longer and longer, they become parodies of themselves. They spend their time defending their methods so much, they get tunnel visioned into "proving" to people how their method works, as opposed to exploring others.

So that is becomes less about United winning, but ensuring United wins the "Jose way".

Mourinho is a very intelligent, highly innovative and was a brilliant coach. I always harp back to his Chelsea MKI because I'd just never seen anything like it before. It was a machine, that played good football, had great players, and I'd be absolutely freaked everytime we played them. Just a constructive onslaught that dominated games and had everything.

I'll never like, get over my dislike for him, but a massive issue I have at the moment, similar to Van Gaal ,is I'm just not seeing the inventiveness, the risks, trying something new. All I'm seeing is a persistence in a method not working, where I question if it's actually the manager believing it will work, or he just wants to prove to "the haters" it can work.

And if there is too much pride there to adopt or try something that "looks" like it will be copying another manager or team.

The issue with LvG was by the end of it things appeared to be going backwards, not just staying the same. It was difficult to make rhyme or reason of what exactly the plan had been as we went from one uninspiring performance and result to the next and never looked close to a title challenge.

I know you could use that to describe the side at the minute also, but at least we had those two months at the beginning of the season where we genuinely looked good.

bangkok

Luke Shaw must be disillusioned by whats going on at this stage

Lord TSC

Jose doesn't trust Shaw.

Its incredibly simple. Whatever we think of Shaw, Jose has long since decided he does not trust the kid to play, be that for tactical reasons, behaviour, or whatever. And much like Blind, Darmian or whoever else, once Jose doesn't believe in a player, they don't get played.

I'd bet he's not thrilled at the prospect of having to play Young there constantly, but he obviously has more trust in Young to do what he's told, and to carry out Jose's tactical plans better than he believes Shaw can.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose doesn't trust Shaw.

Its incredibly simple. Whatever we think of Shaw, Jose has long since decided he does not trust the kid to play, be that for tactical reasons, behaviour, or whatever. And much like Blind, Darmian or whoever else, once Jose doesn't believe in a player, they don't get played.

I'd bet he's not thrilled at the prospect of having to play Young there constantly, but he obviously has more trust in Young to do what he's told, and to carry out Jose's tactical plans better than he believes Shaw can.

Is all the biggup of Shaw an attempt to maintain a high sale price come the summer? Guess it's possible, waxed lyrical about Memphis before jettisoning him

I've been assuming it's some management programme for Shaw, who when I've seen him on the bench has looked in good spirits, so felt he knows whats going on. Don't see any stories about him either, apart from the "he's won the manager over".

Like it's abundantly obvious he has played well when included, and you don't need to be a champions league winning manager to recognise Shaw is the best LB at the club.

bangkok

the few games shaw did play he was excellent, provided width down the left, put in some great balls and won a few motm awards. sick of looking at young playing there

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

the few games shaw did play he was excellent, provided width down the left, put in some great balls and won a few motm awards. sick of looking at young playing there

Hah. And if memory serves you were a Young fan. Sucked into those like two good performances he puts in a season

Yeha I don't even fathom what Shaw could be doing wrong. He's much better offensively, has more to his game in terms of interchanging play and he's a natural LB.

Like considering the role is basically provide width, provide an option in attack, and best of luck in those 2v1's cause Sanchez won't be helping, I thought he has been excellent.

Trigger

It’s gonna be a diamond again I reckon with Sanchez and Lukaku up top and Lingard on behind

S.M.B.

Looks like Martial is injured as he hasn't joined up with squad in London and Lingard as his replacement is the only change to last weekends team.

Happy to see what Sanchez could do further up the field if we do stick with the diamond.

And let's hope it is a minor injury for Martial and nothing more. He must have picked it up on Saturday if so.

Will I Am Not

I’m on the fence when it comes to Shaw. For all the positives in his attacking, I’m struggling to think of any goals or big chances he has been heavily involved in.
His positioning and awareness of what’s around him are fairly suspect too.

Still very young and with regular game time has great potential. I’d play him ahead of Young because he is an actual left back but he’s hardly been streets ahead of him to be fair.

jambofc

Team to play Crystal Palace:
De Gea, Young, Lindelof, Smalling, Valencia, Matic, McTominay, Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez, Lukaku

Subs: Pereira, Bailly, Mata, Carrick, Rashford, Shaw, Darmian

adox

Be interesting to see if Martial is injured or not.

Tin foil hat on: dropped from the squad for his attitude on the pitch last week and his departure from the pitch.

This place is slipping I come here for team news and there si no team out.... We are playing tonight ya *checks livescore*


Edit... jambofc on the job

GSPfan

Will I Am Not wrote: »

His positioning and awareness of what’s around him are fairly suspect too.

Is this something others think is a problem because I think Jose has said it and we’ve all just accepted it as fact. I struggle to think of a goal scored directly from his mistake.

Mr.Crinklewood

Then marmalade yes

hufpc8w3adnk65

Where’s Romero?

GSPfan

adox wrote: »

Be interesting to see if Martial is injured or not.

Tin foil hat on: dropped from the squad for his attitude on the pitch last week and his departure from the pitch.

If so, then good.

Comic Book Guy

Pulled my calf muscle out on my lunchtime run today and no birthday cake for me cause it's lent and I'm old school!
Come on Utd give me some birthday cheer!

duffman13

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Pulled my calf muscle out on my lunchtime run today and no birthday cake for me cause it's lent and I'm old school!
Come on Utd give me some birthday cheer!

Fair play to ya, I pulled my hamstring getting put of the car, sign of the times

PhlegmyMoses

Won't be much width in this side

adox

adox wrote: »

Be interesting to see if Martial is injured or not.

Tin foil hat on: dropped from the squad for his attitude on the pitch last week and his departure from the pitch.

Jose confirmed he's injured

Liam McPoyle

This is a game that Pogba should shine in.

Playing in his best position against relatively poor opposition.

No excuses for him.

4-0 Sanchez hatrick

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

This is a game that Pogba should shine in.

Playing in his best position against relatively poor opposition.

No excuses for him.

He hasn't needed excuses when he plays there anyway

adox

Think tonight could be Sanchez’s night. Coming off his poorest performance in a Utd shirt last week but before that he’s threatened to put in a game changing performance and has been pretty good. Hopefully tonight’s his night.

Trigger

Hennessys head gonna hit the roof there

Crystal palace mascots.....

Damnnnnnn girl

GSPfan

Business Cat wrote: »

This is a game that Pogba should shine in.

Playing in his best position against relatively poor opposition.

No excuses for him.

There’s no excuses for him anyway as he has an amazing physique and proven talent. I think his problems are mental and I think when he switches off even the most average opposing player can make him look awful.

GSPfan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Crystal palace mascots.....

Damnnnnnn girl

#TimesUp

deaddonkey15

adox wrote: »

Think tonight could be Sanchez’s night. Coming off his poorest performance in a Utd shirt last week but before that he’s threatened to put in a game changing performance and has been pretty good. Hopefully tonight’s his night.

He scored twice away to Palace with Arsenal in December so hopefully he can deliver again tonight.

PhlegmyMoses

Pogba is wearing gloves with a short sleeve. Weak mentality

Liam O

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Pogba is wearing gloves with a short sleeve. Weak mentality

Hard to see him playing well with all black hair.

J. Marston

Shíte start.

Lord TSC

Jaysus, Smalling and Lindelof ain't installing confidence here.

tinpib

Palace will be launching in the long, eh, passes all night to the front 2.

TitianGerm

J. Marston wrote: »

Shíte start.

I don't know how many times I've seen that posted in here in the last few months.

Literally 5 minutes into the game
Jesus

Tom.D.BJJ

Atrocious defending