Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

adox

adox wrote: »

Strong words from Lukaku last night "Some players were hiding.."

who was he talking about that started unless he was talking about non starters, I didnt really see anyone not trying to get on the ball ala tom clevery back in his hay day with us

Trigger

adox wrote: »

Strong words from Lukaku last night "Some players were hiding.."

Really wonder who he’s talking about...

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

some people think that because we didn't pay a transfer fee, he was free. He cost us Mkhitaryan.

So he was free



I joke I joke... just trying to lighten the mood

TitianGerm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

some people think that because we didn't pay a transfer fee, he was free. He cost us Mkhitaryan.

Oh I thought you paid like £20m for him. So it was a swap deal really?

adox

Deleted User wrote: »

who was he talking about that started unless he was talking about non starters, I didnt really see anyone not trying to get on the ball ala tom clevery back in his hay day with us

Sorry saw it on twitter but found an article where he clarifies what he meant. Was talking about the dressing room post match so it seems I took it up wrong:

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/manchester-united/story/3419103/romelu-lukaku-some-manchester-united-players-were-hiding-vs-sevilla

Mantis Toboggan

TitianGerm wrote: »

Oh I thought you paid like £20m for him. So it was a swap deal really?

Swap deal, no money exchanged.

bangkok

''Pep would make United like City''

http://www.skysports.com/share/11289056

Have to agree with that

pjohnson

Actually when I mentioned Ndidi I still think we should look at Maguire. Said it last year as Hull were going down. Himself and Bailly could work well together two big center backs one quick, one strong has led to a great partnership before. Unfortunately Jones seems to be the new Phil Brown.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

''Pep would make United like City''

http://www.skysports.com/share/11289056

Have to agree with that

Who cares we were never in for Pep as a manager as we had a manager at the time then he became Citys and as a result he will most likely never be United manager

GSPfan

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Not one of the names that people are suggesting inspire any in confidence in me.

Even Poch, who has done really well with Spurs and who I like, hasn't won a trophy and has shown that he can deal with young players with little ego, not necessarily that he can deal with what we currently have.

Or, we could just continue to let Mournho build, rather than change another manager the minute we reach a bit of adversity.

That arguement about Pochettino not winning a trophy is annoying because he has managed in two leagues with teams that are not expected to win any trophies. It's not easy to win a trophy in a league where you have 3 or 4 rivals outspending you every year. You can only win 3 or 4 trophies a season in England if you bring European competition into it. Pochettino has elevated a second tier team to the first tier and he is now getting judged on trophies alone by a lot of people which is very unfair. 
The one thing that Jose gets praise for is that he has improved us but Pochettino has improved spurs even moreso and done it on a tight budget. I've no doubt Pochettino would win trophies at United and he would do it with a world wide fan base supporting his style of play.
You say Pochettino's strength is developing young players? Brilliant, we love our academy players progressing to the first team. We need to stop competing financially with clubs funded by countries and focus on the one thing we do best and develope the Rashfords/Mctominays/Tuanzebe/Fosu Mensahs of this world. Ego's are what is killing this club and unfortuantely the biggest ego is the manager we have. That's not a dig a Jose it's an absolute fact.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Actually when I mentioned Ndidi I still think we should look at Maguire. Said it last year as Hull were going down. Himself and Bailly could work well together two big center backs one quick, one strong has led to a great partnership before. Unfortunately Jones seems to be the new Phil Brown.

Ya I'm a fan of McGuire, at the very least he doesnt seem very injury prone we would be a nice characteristic to have in a CB

Lord TSC

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

Your Airbag

The dust is still settling from last nights result but for most its the manner in which we got knocked out which is hardest to take. How we played over both legs is how we set out in so many games under Jose. First and foremost he sets us out NOT TO LOSE! But to do this against Sevilla? If we had gone out all guns blazing that would offer some comfort but to offer little to no winning ambition with little attack intent on display is awful as a fan.


Just consider this for a moment, over two legs against Sevilla we only seriously started to attack when we had conceded a goal in the 75th minute of the second leg. Thats shocking. Its practically setting out for ET and penalties from the first whistle in Spain.


Jose got the performance he wanted over the two legs, and the result he deserved.

osarusan

Not a United fan here, but was reading through the thread so hope the post is ok.

I think the perspective on the 0-0 away draw depends on what approach is likely in the second leg. I actually said it in the match thread 3 weeks ago - 0-0 is decent if the plan is to bring them back home and really have a go at them - but is Jose really that kind of manager? Last night showed he isn't really, much more reactive than proactive. He allowed his own team to be there for the taking, and I cannot imagine why.

I wonder, when he set his team and tactics out, what he expected to happen. Sometimes you can clearly see what a team are trying to do, even if they don't pull it off. But last night, I couldn't really see what they were trying to do. I mean, if the game had gone the way Mourinho wanted it to, what would the performance have looked like?

United fans must be sickened by the number of 'what-ifs' floating round in their heads.

For the most part, I think the idea about winning in a certain style is a loadof nonsense. With the possible exception of Real Madrid or Barcelona, is there any team in the world that would really have a problem with their team hoofing their way to a domestic of CL title?

But that's if you're successful. I suppose his style of play leaves him extra open to criticism after a defeat like last night - not only did they lose, but it was this hesitant, negative football that was ugly to watch also.

yourdeadwright

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

Sanchez is the highest paid player in Prem history, Been in England for years ,I think its fair to expect him to be batter,
Its not just at United he's been gash all season , Even at Arsenal when he downed tools.,

yourdeadwright

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

Sanchez is the highest paid player in Prem history, Been in England for years ,I think its fair to expect him to be batter,
Its not just at United he's been gash all season , Even at Arsenal when he downed tools.,

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

Sanchez has forced Rashford and Martial from their best positions where they had for the most part been playing well and he has not performed better than they were. If he was justifying his place then fine but he hasn't. We can only name 2 wide players it should be the two best available. Currently he is not meeting that criteria. He needs to be benched (he can take Pogba's seat) and let our in form players play until Sanchez proves himself.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

I've never felt this pessimistic about things since he took over.

What I don't get about reactions like this, is what else you thought was going to happen?

That performance last night? There have been a dozen like it already this season. A flat, uninspired game where the players didn't look up for it, where many players were making basic mistakes and struggling to impose themselves on the game? A game where we made average players like N'zonzi look like superstars?

A performance like that has happened repeatedly this season and was always, always going to happen again in a crunch game, so why on earth are people surprised or outraged about it?

We are in exactly the same place we were yesterday, a squad of weak players led by a manager who doesn't trust them. The only question is if you can blame him.

Will I Am Not

I’m all for giving Mourinho another season anyway. We are a centre mid and a few defenders short of competing for any major trophies. If he addresses those positions in the Summer and still can’t manage a decent tilt at the title and a good CL challenge maybe then it’s time to go.

Bailly is the only one in that backline I would care about losing. Young, Smalling and Valencia are not in keeping with the standard of the rest of the team.
I think Mourinho would be a bit more adventurous with a solid defence.
It’s also on him that we don’t have a solid defence but you can’t fix everything in a few transfer windows.

Buy in the right positions and not because someone is available and this can be ramped up a bit more. This is still an upward trajectory and until that changes I’m still on board.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Did anyone else notice the booing at 0-0? It want just a few either.

Tonight has been a pivotal night I think and for all the wrong reasons.

I thought there was then a nice touch from fans after their boo, you could see on camera fans applauding Sevilla in the corner, and Lukaku also went around applauding and he got a good ovation.

And there was loud applause from our fans after the booing, which was 100% justified. But from what I gathered it was being aimed squarely at the manager, he got absolutely roasted walking off.

Thought his post match comments were an absolute disgrace, and he's totally misread that situation trying to make out its no big deal and we can go on from it. He's jeopardised his position and tenability at United in the space of three hours.

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

TheDoc

Dozyart wrote: »

Cringing for the "Mourinho out" crowd,but i feel some of you have been sitting waiting to roll it out!

Tonight wasnt one bit pretty but its crazy to lay it all at Mourinhos door when Pogba or Sanchez cant pass a simple ball to begin with,manager and players alike need to look at themselves!

You know the Pogba quandry probably sums up nicely this manager, and the issues people like me have with him, and why I hope behind closed doors our board have serious balls.

We shouldn't be sitting here two seasons in questioning Pogba, having weekly debates about him and having to deal with the general ****e that goes on about him.

Mourinho got handed one of the best midfielders in the world, and he has been totally unable to maximise his potential. Sure, the player himself feeds into that at times, but last night Pogba looked an absolute shell. A complete wreck.

Misuse, under performance and an inability to extract maximum potential and performances has been an underlying pin of Mourinho's reign here.

And sure, some people will focus on the player, others the manager. I sit in the later camp, how are you ****ing breaking this player.

Too Tough To Die

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Sanchez is the highest paid player in Prem history, Been in England for years ,I think its fair to expect him to be batter,

Form is tempura, class is permanent. He'll come good.

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

Sanchez is very clearly to me struggling to flick the switch from his downing of tools at Arsenal.IT was a point I made when he was signed, that he needs to be really drilled into discipline and realise he isn't at Arsenal. He isn't the star here, and he won't be bigger then the club.

He is still playing from his Arsenal recent form unfortunately. Wasteful, pointless, undisciplined and entirely selfish.

But ok. He needs to just be persisted with, get a pre-season under his belt, and then next season be operating as part of the team and club properly. I appreciate it is not easy to just flick on form and to adapt immediately to your new environment.

GSPfan

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m all for giving Mourinho another season anyway. We are a centre mid and a few defenders short of competing for any major trophies. If he addresses those positions in the Summer and still can’t manage a decent tilt at the title and a good CL challenge maybe then it’s time to go.

Bailly is the only one in that backline I would care about losing. Young, Smalling and Valencia are not in keeping with the standard of the rest of the team.
I think Mourinho would be a bit more adventurous with a solid defence.
It’s also on him that we don’t have a solid defence but you can’t fix everything in a few transfer windows.

Buy in the right positions and not because someone is available and this can be ramped up a bit more. This is still an upward trajectory and until that changes I’m still on board.

This again is another example of someone saying they are happy with Mourinho and happy to give him more time but on the understanding he changes fundamentally who he is and what he does. HE WON'T!!! Trust me on that. If you want Jose to stay then that is fine, I'm not calling for his head either, but he will not do anything differently. Even if he tried to do something different he will revert back to his favourite ways at the first sign of trouble.
He also will not be making wholesale changes to defense or midifeld because unless you do what City do and spend fortunes on full backs then you can't do it.

yourdeadwright

GSPfan wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstanding of Sanchez ," he works hard "
He runs around a lot but with zero discipline , he causes trouble for his own team mates by doing this, Footbal lis not as simply as run after the ball ,
For instance you work on pressing to get the ball back and everyone has  job and a player they have to press ,
Then Sanchez starts to press the ball loses discipline and chases the next defender and the next leaving his own team mate who's job it is in no man's land and then ball get recycled out to Sanchez original man(who he is no longer tracking or near)  and the team moves up the pitch ,
This is the reason he didn't start wide on Saturday as Liverpool as he can't be trusted to do a job assigned ,

kona

TheDoc wrote: »

Thought his post match comments were an absolute disgrace, and he's totally misread that situation trying to make out its no big deal and we can go on from it. He's jeopardised his position and tenability at United in the space of three hours.

Have to agree there, what the **** was he going on about? I cannot make sense of it.

Also, sanchez needs to be dropped.

adox

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Form is tempura, class is permanent. He'll come good.

Were you on the batter last night? :pac:

PhlegmyMoses

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Form is tempura, class is permanent. He'll come good.

Prawn tempura or...?

TheDoc

While it's a ludicrous notion, and I don't even know if I'm serious suggesting it.

I saw an image of SAF last night looking down when we were 2-0 down and there was for the first time in I guess, since his retirement, where there was actual scorn in his face. He's been very measured and obviously knows that cameras will always be at him, so he doesn't want to be a story or a headline.

But you'd nearly wonder, as a Director of the club, and having watched for now a number of years first hand while his legacy has been torn asunder, if a little meeting, players and coaching staff, to be dressed down by Sir Alex and reminded of what playing for this club means and what are the standards that have been set.

Like I said it's totally off the cuff and of course it likely wouldn't happen. Mostly because managers are ego maniacs and would see that as some form of weakness, but if I was in Mourinho's shoes this morning I'd probably ask Ferguson to come in to have a chat with everyone, that if it wasn't abundantly obvious, everyone needs a reminder this is unacceptable and the easy part is joining this club, the hard part is being good enough to stay and be part of the expectations, winning meaningful trophies coupled with exciting performances.

pjohnson

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Prawn tempura or...?

adox wrote: »

Were you on the batter last night? :pac:

Delighted my typo has been missed.

PhlegmyMoses

TheDoc wrote: »

While it's a ludicrous notion, and I don't even know if I'm serious suggesting it.

I saw an image of SAF last night looking down when we were 2-0 down and there was for the first time in I guess, since his retirement, where there was actual scorn in his face. He's been very measured and obviously knows that cameras will always be at him, so he doesn't want to be a story or a headline.

But you'd nearly wonder, as a Director of the club, and having watched for now a number of years first hand while his legacy has been torn asunder, if a little meeting, players and coaching staff, to be dressed down by Sir Alex and reminded of what playing for this club means and what are the standards that have been set.

Like I said it's totally off the cuff and of course it likely wouldn't happen. Mostly because managers are ego maniacs and would see that as some form of weakness, but if I was in Mourinho's shoes this morning I'd probably ask Ferguson to come in to have a chat with everyone, that if it wasn't abundantly obvious, everyone needs a reminder this is unacceptable and the easy part is joining this club, the hard part is being good enough to stay and be part of the expectations, winning meaningful trophies coupled with exciting performances.

No offence meant to you at all here, I get you are frustrated. But the meltdown from last night is reaching peak nonsense. A bit of calm needed, I think.

GSPfan

yourdeadwright wrote: »

GSPfan wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstanding of Sanchez ," he works hard "
He runs around a lot but with zero discipline , he causes trouble for his own team mates by doing this, Footbal lis not as simply as run after the ball ,
For instance you work on pressing to get the ball back and everyone has  job and a player they have to press ,
Then Sanchez starts to press the ball loses discipline and chases the next defender and the next leaving his own team mate who's job it is in no man's land and then ball get recycled out to Sanchez original man(who he is no longer tracking or near)  and the team moves up the pitch ,
This is the reason he didn't start wide on Saturday as Liverpool as he can't be trusted to do a job assigned ,

Sorry but totally disagree. He is a wide forward or a front player and if he can't run around and chase a football without worrying about leaving the 9 players behind him exposed then we are seriously fooked!

josip

They're hard to watch these days.
And that's not going to change while Mourinho is the coach.
You either entertain the fans or you win trophies if you want to survive.
We were spoiled by Ferguson that he was able to do both.
Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho were always going to be in the 'trophy winning' rather than 'fan entertaining' category.

yourdeadwright

GSPfan wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

GSPfan wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstanding of Sanchez ," he works hard "
He runs around a lot but with zero discipline , he causes trouble for his own team mates by doing this, Footbal lis not as simply as run after the ball ,
For instance you work on pressing to get the ball back and everyone has  job and a player they have to press ,
Then Sanchez starts to press the ball loses discipline and chases the next defender and the next leaving his own team mate who's job it is in no man's land and then ball get recycled out to Sanchez original man(who he is no longer tracking or near)  and the team moves up the pitch ,
This is the reason he didn't start wide on Saturday as Liverpool as he can't be trusted to do a job assigned ,

Sorry but totally disagree. He is a wide forward or a front player and if he can't run around and chase a football without worrying about leaving the 9 players behind him exposed then we are seriously fooked!

Do you not watch United under Jose ? or any other Jose team ?
His wide forwards always have a job to do and Alexis is not capable,
Do you think its coincidence he was played through the middle against Liverpool , Jose wanted to wide players with discipline to help Young and Valencia out and Alexis wasn't his man ,

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

GSPfan wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

GSPfan wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstanding of Sanchez ," he works hard "
He runs around a lot but with zero discipline , he causes trouble for his own team mates by doing this, Footbal lis not as simply as run after the ball ,
For instance you work on pressing to get the ball back and everyone has  job and a player they have to press ,
Then Sanchez starts to press the ball loses discipline and chases the next defender and the next leaving his own team mate who's job it is in no man's land and then ball get recycled out to Sanchez original man(who he is no longer tracking or near)  and the team moves up the pitch ,
This is the reason he didn't start wide on Saturday as Liverpool as he can't be trusted to do a job assigned ,

Sorry but totally disagree. He is a wide forward or a front player and if he can't run around and chase a football without worrying about leaving the 9 players behind him exposed then we are seriously fooked!

Do you not watch United under Jose ? or any other Jose team ?
His wide forwards always have a job to do and Alexis is not capable,
Do you think its coincidence he was played through the middle against Liverpool , Jose wanted to wide players with discipline to help Young and Valencia out and Alexis wasn't his man ,

Iv said so many time his best season and only really amazing one at Arsenal was a flase 9 as even Wenger didn't trust him wide

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

You know the Pogba quandry probably sums up nicely this manager, and the issues people like me have with him, and why I hope behind closed doors our board have serious balls.

We shouldn't be sitting here two seasons in questioning Pogba, having weekly debates about him and having to deal with the general ****e that goes on about him.

Mourinho got handed one of the best midfielders in the world, and he has been totally unable to maximise his potential. Sure, the player himself feeds into that at times, but last night Pogba looked an absolute shell. A complete wreck.

Misuse, under performance and an inability to extract maximum potential and performances has been an underlying pin of Mourinho's reign here.

And sure, some people will focus on the player, others the manager. I sit in the later camp, how are you ****ing breaking this player.

I dont know if you can blame Mourinho for "breaking" Pogba he seems remarkably fragile all by himself.

GSPfan

yourdeadwright wrote: »

GSPfan wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

GSPfan wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

I feel there's a focus on Sanchez because he's the shiney new toy.

I'm never sure if I have a bigger issue with players like him who are obviously trying but struggling, or players who just go missing. Lingard was anonymous last night. Rashford was back to his inconsistent self. Mata and Martial seemed to offer nothing when they came on either.

I agree Sanchez was poor, but I'd have more time for someone at the club 8 weeks than some of them who've been here years and seemed to put in far less of a shift....

I thought Sanchez showed great desire and effort last night even though he didn't have any effect. But it's bizarre watching United as it seems like we are playing against 12 men all the time. We always look outnumbered on the pitch as soon as we get close to the centre circle. Sanchez tries to be offensive but I feel he is always surrounded and he runs down alleys with no support. Is that his fault.... maybe but I'm not letting Jose's tactics off the hook.
It's depressing me. Hate that our seasons are over with two months left. I couldn't care less about the FA Cup to be honest.

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstanding of Sanchez ," he works hard "
He runs around a lot but with zero discipline , he causes trouble for his own team mates by doing this, Footbal lis not as simply as run after the ball ,
For instance you work on pressing to get the ball back and everyone has  job and a player they have to press ,
Then Sanchez starts to press the ball loses discipline and chases the next defender and the next leaving his own team mate who's job it is in no man's land and then ball get recycled out to Sanchez original man(who he is no longer tracking or near)  and the team moves up the pitch ,
This is the reason he didn't start wide on Saturday as Liverpool as he can't be trusted to do a job assigned ,

Sorry but totally disagree. He is a wide forward or a front player and if he can't run around and chase a football without worrying about leaving the 9 players behind him exposed then we are seriously fooked!

Do you not watch United under Jose ? or any other Jose team ?
His wide forwards always have a job to do and Alexis is not capable,
Do you think its coincidence he was played through the middle against Liverpool , Jose wanted to wide players with discipline to help Young and Valencia out and Alexis wasn't his man ,

Jose bought Sanchez two months ago, Jose employs a system that doesn't suit Sanchez, and you think Sanchez is the problem?

Trigger

Dya know what’s irritating even more than the result last night.. people quoting using the responsive site :pac: it’s a headwrecker having 5 quoted posts in a post if you are only replying to one of them! Get the finger out lads

yourdeadwright

pjohnson wrote: »

TheDoc wrote: »

You know the Pogba quandry probably sums up nicely this manager, and the issues people like me have with him, and why I hope behind closed doors our board have serious balls.

We shouldn't be sitting here two seasons in questioning Pogba, having weekly debates about him and having to deal with the general ****e that goes on about him.

Mourinho got handed one of the best midfielders in the world, and he has been totally unable to maximise his potential. Sure, the player himself feeds into that at times, but last night Pogba looked an absolute shell. A complete wreck.

Misuse, under performance and an inability to extract maximum potential and performances has been an underlying pin of Mourinho's reign here.

And sure, some people will focus on the player, others the manager. I sit in the later camp, how are you ****ing breaking this player.

I dont know if you can blame Mourinho for "breaking" Pogba he seems remarkably fragile all by himself.

i agree with this
Pogba was never ever one of the best in the world, He has been and always will be a guy who has everything to "BE "one of the best in the world but never puts it all together long enough ,
Pogba got away with murder at Juve as they walked Seria A every year, So his weak area's where never really questioned but they have always been there,

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Iv said so many time his best season and only really amazing one at Arsenal was a flase 9 as even Wenger didn't trust him wide

Yet he played wide for Udinese on the right, prior to Barcelona and a host of other clubs wanting to sign him. Then he played right for Barcelona, prior to Arsenal and a bunch of other clubs wanting to sign him. Then he played left, prior to United, City, Chelsea and others wanting to sign him.

TheDoc

Couldn't even keep to my own promise to stay away until FA Cup chatter. Love you all too much! And it's also just feels like a real "moment" in this managers reign. He will either look at himself and realise his methods are dead and buried and needs to reinvent himself, or he will be gone.

I don't want (and would hate)people thinking I'm capitalising on our exit, or that "This is what I wanted" to heap pressure on him or to somehow feel like my stance has been justified. I'm absolutely devastated we are out, the critique of the manager is just going to come as part of picking apart the carcass of that performance.

The players will deserve plenty of slaughter as well, but the buck stops with the manager. He sets the tone and the verve, from his instructions, training, talks and tactics.

There will likely need to be, and I genuinely believe this, an in depth look at how this team plays under Mourinho. It is not fit for purpose, and simply not befitting of a traditional European Elite club. And you know I'm not knee jerking from last night, that I've taken this stance from day dot with him. But it further fuels this myths I believe, especially "Jose Masterclass". I think the last week literally perfectly sums up the issues in a microcosm that surround this manager.

And there needs to maybe be some objectivity in terms of what he is doing.

Part of me wants him to succeed. And I genuinely mean that. He was once upon a time a highly gifted and innovative coach. But that has stopped since he left Inter, and he has turned into a parody of himself. And I feel I'm watching Van Gaal all over again. A coach that I expect to see and get A, but then realise those days are gone. That innovation and creativity is dead, and all that I'm getting and watching is a manager more concerned with proving his way works, as opposed to ensuring the team achieve what is deemed acceptable.

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i agree with this
Pogba was never ever one of the best in the world, He has been and always will be a guy who has everything to "BE "one of the best in the world but never puts it all together long enough ,
Pogba got away with murder at Juve as they walked Seria A every year, So his weak area's where never really questioned but they have always been there,

a 22/23 year old had weaknesses that need to be worked on?

WHAT?

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yet he played wide for Udinese on the right, prior to Barcelona and a host of other clubs wanting to sign him. Then he played right for Barcelona, prior to Arsenal and a bunch of other clubs wanting to sign him. Then he played left, prior to United, City, Chelsea and others wanting to sign him.

I agree, Sanchez has shown throughout his career that he can play any of the three positions behind the striker, plus false nine to a very high standard

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Dya know what’s irritating even more than the result last night.. people quoting using the responsive site :pac: it’s a headwrecker having 5 quoted posts in a post if you are only replying to one of them! Get the finger out lads

My eyes, These goggles they do nothing

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

a 22/23 year old had weaknesses that need to be worked on?

WHAT?

And at 25 they still need to be worked on.

TheDoc

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i agree with this
Pogba was never ever one of the best in the world, He has been and always will be a guy who has everything to "BE "one of the best in the world but never puts it all together long enough ,
Pogba got away with murder at Juve as they walked Seria A every year, So his weak area's where never really questioned but they have always been there,

Serie A enthusiasts would disagree. As someone who is not an enthusiast, I'd massively disagree.

That Pogba was season in season out, and absolutely incredible player, formed a major part of their success and was on a clear trajectory to being one of the worlds best, and for parts he was already there.

So if his weak areas where always there but he's got away with, if that is what you are implying. Why did this manager sign him, and then what, purposefully put him in a situation where he is consistently exposed? Where his strengths arn't catered for?

Why after a full first season, has the manager not figured it out yet? Why nearly two seasons in, are we still having weekly debates about Paul Pogba.

Toni Kroos is one of the best midfielders in the world. He has clear strengths and he has clear weakness'. There isn't a weekly debate about him. Nor is there about other clearly identified world class or elite level players. Why is that?

Cantona's Collars

On the point of Ferguson having a word. Look at the players in the squad from his era. The captain is one of 'his players'.
Was last night a question of attitude? "Ah sure we beat Chelsea and Liverpool so Sevilla at home should be handy". We've seen this before, teams have no divine right to win games. Back in the day we had that attitude but that was married to hard work. In any job if you have that lazy attitude then you won't be successful, football isn't any different.
Look at City,for all the pretty football,they work damn hard. We don't seem to,and haven't in quite a while, it's a case of drop back and wait for the ball to be given to us.
This fashionable pressing game isn't new,look back at old United games and you'll see we used to do it and punished the mistakes we forced from teams.

yourdeadwright

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Iv said so many time his best season and only really amazing one at Arsenal was a flase 9 as even Wenger didn't trust him wide

Yet he played wide for Udinese on the right, prior to Barcelona and a host of other clubs wanting to sign him. Then he played right for Barcelona, prior to Arsenal and a bunch of other clubs wanting to sign him. Then he played left, prior to United, City, Chelsea and others wanting to sign him.

All for mangers who are not Jose, Barcelona always have the ball  ,City wanted him they always have the ball ,Arsenal played him as a false 9
Can name all the teams you like but he's been stealing a living a United  , he has been horse sh*t, and he works hard as an excuse is laughable, Lee Cattermole works hard,

yourdeadwright

TheDoc wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i agree with this
Pogba was never ever one of the best in the world, He has been and always will be a guy who has everything to "BE "one of the best in the world but never puts it all together long enough ,
Pogba got away with murder at Juve as they walked Seria A every year, So his weak area's where never really questioned but they have always been there,

Serie A enthusiasts would disagree. As someone who is not an enthusiast, I'd massively disagree.

That Pogba was season in season out, and absolutely incredible player, formed a major part of their success and was on a clear trajectory to being one of the worlds best, and for parts he was already there.

So if his weak areas where always there but he's got away with, if that is what you are implying. Why did this manager sign him, and then what, purposefully put him in a situation where he is consistently exposed? Where his strengths arn't catered for?

Why after a full first season, has the manager not figured it out yet? Why nearly two seasons in, are we still having weekly debates about Paul Pogba.

Toni Kroos is one of the best midfielders in the world. He has clear strengths and he has clear weakness'. There isn't a weekly debate about him. Nor is there about other clearly identified world class or elite level players. Why is that?

OK what positon would you say he played for Juve when he was this incredible player you speak off  ?
What are you saying Jose needs to figure out ? he's played all across the midfield at this stage and the incredible player has yet to show up