Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Not using Steams Cloud saves?

Hmm, maybe I'll just fire up last years. Edit the DB maybe to have the current squad.

Or go back to 2016 and live the Memphis dream again

Hmm, maybe with the Steam Cloud saves. Not 100% sure.

Lordy, Memphis. He turned so easily into Ronaldo level. Was looking back through old posts from the FM board. Hadn't realised how often you, me and Mars talked about the game back in 2015. Found this though, end of my first season in 2015.

Rossi IRL

Ah the old FM...

Started a cheat game recently. Went with Salford. Gave myself some of the United youth teams, mostly the u18s. Also got as many former players as staff as I could.

Now just gotta find the time to play it.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Hmm, maybe with the Steam Cloud saves. Not 100% sure.

Lordy, Memphis. He turned so easily into Ronaldo level. Was looking back through old posts from the FM board. Hadn't realised how often you, me and Mars talked about the game back in 2015. Found this though, end of my first season in 2015.

Bastárd snubbed me for City. FM15 is the best my laptop can take.

Discodog

I seem to recall Jose saying, when he signed, that he understood the style of the Club. But I also recall him saying that he thought that the worse thing was when you dominate a game & they score on a counter.

This result might make clubs more wary of being happy with a nil nil away. It leaves you so open.

Adamocovic

On Memphis, sorry if mentioned before, but he's having a good season with Lyon. Been in the papers that AC Milan are weighing up a move. They aren't at the level they once were but making progress (Outside chance of CL)

Happy to see it going well for him, wondering what the details of the buy-back are. I take it if he goes to Milan that's it done but could possibly see some money go our way, not that we need it. Could be completely wrong here. Always did want to see him return some day but that is unlikely.

Adamocovic

yourdeadwright wrote: »

At one stage United where level with City at the top of the table too,
Its embarrassing the lengths people go to defend Pogba, hes been bang average for two years, Every one can see get over it lads,
Or is the whole world not seeing something different,

My point was that it was brought up that only recently Pogba was one of the top assist providers of the season in Europe, with less games than the rest. Which in fact was true back in January. Something you responded to saying the poster was lying, unless you misunderstood their post.

Maybe I'm too tired to grasp your post but what's embarrassing about the whole exchange, other than the above? I agree he hasn't lived up to his potential with us since joining, showed signs of it but inconsistent. Not fully his fault either.

Andrew Beef

Sanchez has all the hallmarks of a guy who’s trying too hard. He will come good because of his work ethic.

Pogba on the other hand has been nothing short of a disgrace. His United career has been laughably bad, even if you ignore the transfer fee.

Contextualised with the the fact that this guy is the second most expensive player in the history of the game, I mean Jesus Christ...he’s worse than William Prunier!

bangkok

Good point made in one of the papers, doesnt matter what sort of players we have in midfield, they cannot effect the game when all we do is go long to lukaku

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez has all the hallmarks of a guy who’s trying too hard. He will come good because of his work ethic.

Pogba on the other hand has been nothing short of a disgrace. His United career has been laughably bad, even if you ignore the transfer fee.

Contextualised with the the fact that this guy is the second most expensive player in the history of the game, I mean Jesus Christ...he’s worse than William Prunier!

Yea. I will never take you seriously ever again

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez has all the hallmarks of a guy who’s trying too hard. He will come good because of his work ethic.

Pogba on the other hand has been nothing short of a disgrace. His United career has been laughably bad, even if you ignore the transfer fee.

Contextualised with the the fact that this guy is the second most expensive player in the history of the game, I mean Jesus Christ...he’s worse than William Prunier!

Yea. I will never take you seriously ever again

Good for you. I will never try to engage with you on a meaningful level, because you, like many others here, seem incapable of thinking logically or in terms of relativity.

It is reasonable to contend that £90m Pogba, who has basically delivered the square root of f..k all at United has been as bad as William Prunier, Eric Djemba-Djemba, or Kleberson...ON A RELATIVE BASIS.

That point, i.e. relative basis, is key; when the fella who cost £90m lets you down it’s far more serious and toxic than (say) someone like Djemba-Djemba not working out.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

I agree. Average and yet still has 9 assists this season. Imagine he was good or even brilliant

Lukaku has 23 goals and 7 assists, no imagining needed for those numbers yet he has been targeted for heavy criticism most of the season.

Nalz

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Good for you. I will never try to engage with you on a meaningful level, because you, like many others here, seem incapable of thinking logically or in terms of relativity.

It is reasonable to contend that £90m Pogba, who has basically delivered the square root of f..k all at United has been as bad as William Prunier, Eric Djemba-Djemba, or Kleberson...ON A RELATIVE BASIS.

That point, i.e. relative basis, is key; when the fella who cost £90m lets you down it’s far more serious and toxic than (say) someone like Djemba-Djemba not working out.

Throw in his work ethic and social media presence in to the mix too

You didn't see djemba djemba strolling around the pitch, prancing around on YouTube/Snapchat or a guest presenter at music awards.

Andrew Beef

Nalz wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Good for you. I will never try to engage with you on a meaningful level, because you, like many others here, seem incapable of thinking logically or in terms of relativity.

It is reasonable to contend that £90m Pogba, who has basically delivered the square root of f..k all at United has been as bad as William Prunier, Eric Djemba-Djemba, or Kleberson...ON A RELATIVE BASIS.

That point, i.e. relative basis, is key; when the fella who cost £90m lets you down it’s far more serious and toxic than (say) someone like Djemba-Djemba not working out.

Throw in his work ethic and social media presence in to the mix too

Absolutely. I was in London recently and Pogba’s image was down the side of a building. I’m looking at it and thinking how on Earth is this guy getting away with it? Spoof, bluff, style over substance. Bobby Charlton must vomit into a basin beside his bed when he lies there thinking of this guy.

Andrew Beef

We need to continue the rebuild job. We need:

Two fullbacks (Danny Rose plus one perhaps)
A centre-back
A midfielder (Tony Kroos perhaps)
A wide player with conviction (Willian perhaps)

Nalz

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Absolutely. I was in London recently and Pogba’s image was down the side of a building. I’m looking at it and thinking how on Earth is this guy getting away with it? Spoof, bluff, style over substance. Bobby Charlton must vomit into a basin beside his bed when he lies there thinking of this guy.

What makes it worse is he could be almost as good as these images would want you to believe, but when he's not next nor near it it's someone else's fault or "his stats aren't bad" thrown back at you.

He's not showing enough to get near the level he can get at, and I don't think that level is world class either btw.

Andrew Beef

The stats are horsesh.t...sure weren’t there a number of instances where he played short passes to teammates who then hit long shots?

“Lies, damn lies, and statistics”

We’re watching the games and the man has been dreadful.

Also, people go on like he’s a young player...FFS, he’s 25! Roy Keane was 27 in Turin in 1999!!!

Complete spoof and spin; I sound like Dunphy, but Paul Pogba is a charlatan who is stealing a living.

bangkok

Nalz wrote: »

Throw in his work ethic and social media presence in to the mix too

You didn't see djemba djemba strolling around the pitch, prancing around on YouTube/Snapchat or a guest presenter at music awards.

Considering youtube or snapchat were not around then it would have been very hard to see him on it

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

The stats are horsesh.t...sure weren’t there a number of instances where he played short passes to teammates who then hit long shots?

“Lies, damn lies, and statistics”

We’re watching the games and the man has been dreadful.

Also, people go on like he’s a young player...FFS, he’s 25! Roy Keane was 27 in Turin in 1999!!!

Complete spoof and spin; I sound like Dunphy, but Paul Pogba is a charlatan who is stealing a living.

99, the time we went to juventus, played 442 and took the game to juve in their own back yard scoring 3 goals and getting to a champions league final. Imagine jose doing that!!

Headshot

I couldnt watch the match last night but heard the result I was sicked and gutted

Im still far from over it tbh. It's ruined the season for me.

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Lukaku has 23 goals and 7 assists, no imagining needed for those numbers yet he has been targeted for heavy criticism most of the season.

And if we set up to play to his strenghts he would have even more

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Absolutely. I was in London recently and Pogba’s image was down the side of a building. I’m looking at it and thinking how on Earth is this guy getting away with it? Spoof, bluff, style over substance. Bobby Charlton must vomit into a basin beside his bed when he lies there thinking of this guy.

Well we know what charlton thinks of jose

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8318815/sir-bobby-charlton-says-real-madrid-boss-jose-mourinho-pontificates-too-much

Whatsisname

bangkok wrote: »

Well we know what charlton thinks of jose

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8318815/sir-bobby-charlton-says-real-madrid-boss-jose-mourinho-pontificates-too-much

You know thats 6 years old, right?

We all get your point, I don't know why you constantly feel the need to ram it down everyones throat.

Will I Am Not

Whatsisname wrote: »

You know thats 6 years old, right?

We all get your point, I don't know why you constantly feel the need to ram it down everyones throat.

I do.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

And if we set up to play to his strenghts he would have even more

Of course he would.

I hope it doesnt seem that im trying to pick on you personally but that's what people have been saying all season. Despite not being played to his strenghts, despite having to resort to playing in off the wings or from much deeper to try and make something happen he has still hit a more than respectable return but up til now you gave him alot of (imo) unnecessary stick and were very nit picky when it came to his contributions.

adox

Headshot wrote: »

I couldnt watch the match last night but heard the result I was sicked and gutted

Im still far from over it tbh. It's ruined the season for me.

You would be even worse if you had watched it.

Andrew Beef

This isn’t just limited to United, and it’s somewhat rhetorical, but why in God’s name are players absolved of blame with a view to throwing the manager under the bus?

I get the fact that they’re valuable.

But look at Chelsea’s players; it’s despicable how they’ve seen off manager after manager.

Now take us; last night was shambolic, but who’s to blame?

Is Luke Shaw to blame? “But he wasn’t playing!” I hear some people shout. Why wasn’t he playing? Because he’s fat and therefore unprofessional, forcing us to put square pegs in round holes. Is Pogba to blame for being so bad that he can’t even get in the team, despite his £90m price tag?

Is Sanchez to blame for looking like a fella who won a Wetherspoons prize draw to play with his heroes?

I do take issue with Jose selecting Fellaini though; that man is the personification of Manchester United 2013 to 2018; the sight of him makes me ill.

Cotts72

I think if there's any possibility of us signing Alderweireld then he's a must. A proper leader at the back and arguably the best CB in the league!

On a sidenote I was pretty impressed by Correa for Sevilla last night,looked very tidy

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Of course he would.

I hope it doesnt seem that im trying to pick on you personally but that's what people have been saying all season. Despite not being played to his strenghts, despite having to resort to playing in off the wings or from much deeper to try and make something happen he has still hit a more than respectable return but up til now you gave him alot of (imo) unnecessary stick and were very nit picky when it came to his contributions.

Earlier in the season though i thought he could have done more but the more the season has gone on the better he has become.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

This isn’t just limited to United, and it’s somewhat rhetorical, but why in God’s name are players absolved of blame with a view to throwing the manager under the bus?

I get the fact that they’re valuable.

But look at Chelsea’s players; it’s despicable how they’ve seen off manager after manager.

Now take us; last night was shambolic, but who’s to blame?

Is Luke Shaw to blame? “But he wasn’t playing!” I hear some people shout. Why wasn’t he playing? Because he’s fat and therefore unprofessional, forcing us to put square pegs in round holes. Is Pogba to blame for being so bad that he can’t even get in the team, despite his £90m price tag?

Is Sanchez to blame for looking like a fella who won a Wetherspoons prize draw to play with his heroes?

I do take issue with Jose selecting Fellaini though; that man is the personification of Manchester United 2013 to 2018; the sight of him makes me ill.

Shaw isnt fat.

Why also when he did play for 3 or 4 games in a row when young was out and he was excellent and the team looked better down the left he is suddenly dropped.

Why does the manager have to insult him in public, saying he used his own brain for shaws body?! Is it any wonder players turn on him

Ninthlife

Business Cat wrote: »

Of course he would.

I hope it doesnt seem that im trying to pick on you personally but that's what people have been saying all season. Despite not being played to his strenghts, despite having to resort to playing in off the wings or from much deeper to try and make something happen he has still hit a more than respectable return but up til now you gave him alot of (imo) unnecessary stick and were very nit picky when it came to his contributions.

Lukaku has fast become my fave United player especially guven his performances over the last number of matches. His celebrations of goals scored show a real passion and his performaces show a desire to compete to win....unlike many others

GSPfan

Cotts72 wrote: »

On a sidenote I was pretty impressed by Correa for Sevilla last night,looked very tidy

He moves like Kaka.

To be honest the last thing we need is another wide left player.

Ninthlife

Cotts72 wrote: »

I think if there's any possibility of us signing Alderweireld then he's a must. A proper leader at the back and arguably the best CB in the league!

On a sidenote I was pretty impressed by Correa for Sevilla last night,looked very tidy

The French centre back seemed to have a good game too along with Kjaer (sp?)

DM_7

Nzonzi and Banega were very good for them. But for potential to step up to a higher level I thought Correa and Lenglet were very good. Will be interesting to watch them more and see how they get on.

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

I agree. Average and yet still has 9 assists this season. Imagine he was good or even brilliant

How many assists does Mikhitaryan have this season ?

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

How many assists does Mikhitaryan have this season ?

Pascal Groß has 8 anywyas

Potential Underachiever

bangkok wrote: »

Shaw isnt fat.

Why also when he did play for 3 or 4 games in a row when young was out and he was excellent and the team looked better down the left he is suddenly dropped.

Why does the manager have to insult him in public, saying he used his own brain for shaws body?! Is it any wonder players turn on him

No, he's just big boned, right?

bangkok

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

No, he's just big boned, right?

Picture of him training monday and he looked fine.

deaddonkey15

I've said it before but we should really try and take Kante from Chelsea this summer if they don't get top 4. Especially if Conte gets sacked. Matic and Kante in holding roles with Pogba as a third midfield/number 10 would be fascinating to watch, especially if we buy some proper defenders in the summer. At least with that midfield we'll find out for certain if Pogba is a serious player or just a waste of time. We'd probably find out for sure where we're going with Mourinho as well.

Adamocovic

Think most of us at this stage just want the season to come to an end, and to begin looking ahead.

FA Cup on paper is a great chance to at least finish with a final and chance of silverware but the way we have been playing wouldn't exactly give you too much confidence.

Winning it won't magically turn this season into a major success, but would at least give something good for us to hold onto during what will ultimately be a long and frustrating period before next season begins.

bangkok

We actually did score from a corner kick last night!! Rashfords corner went straight to lukaku

bangkok

Adamocovic wrote: »

Think most of us at this stage just want the season to come to an end, and to begin looking ahead.

FA Cup on paper is a great chance to at least finish with a final and chance of silverware but the way we have been playing wouldn't exactly give you too much confidence.

Winning it won't magically turn this season into a major success, but would at least give something good for us to hold onto during what will ultimately be a long and frustrating period before next season begins.

Look ahead with jose as manager or not?

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Look ahead with jose as manager or not?

He will be manager unless we slip out of the CL spaces or opts to walk. Both unlikely to happen tbh.

Drumpot

Ninthlife wrote: »

Lukaku has fast become my fave United player especially guven his performances over the last number of matches. His celebrations of goals scored show a real passion and his performaces show a desire to compete to win....unlike many others

Not just that he’s addded to his game. His hold up and link up play has been very good. Pogba could Learn from Lukaku knuckling down when it’s not all gong his way.

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

Look ahead with jose as manager or not?

Personally would rather him stay on. I think he does take the blame for a lot of the frustration we've seen this season, but that's normal in his position. However a lot of those frustrations have been due to the style of play. I would look at next season as the deciding season.

In terms of results, yes there has been progress, provided we don't slip out of top 4. With another summer break and preparation under his belt with us I don't think many excuses can be used and we will have to see more improvement and consistency.

I'll admit I may judge him harshly at times, maybe due to his time at Chelsea and rooting against him, but I do believe he has done enough to warrant staying on. I'd rather that than starting fresh again with another new manager.

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

This isn’t just limited to United, and it’s somewhat rhetorical, but why in God’s name are players absolved of blame with a view to throwing the manager under the bus?

I get the fact that they’re valuable.

But look at Chelsea’s players; it’s despicable how they’ve seen off manager after manager.

Now take us; last night was shambolic, but who’s to blame?

Is Luke Shaw to blame? “But he wasn’t playing!” I hear some people shout. Why wasn’t he playing? Because he’s fat and therefore unprofessional, forcing us to put square pegs in round holes. Is Pogba to blame for being so bad that he can’t even get in the team, despite his £90m price tag?

Is Sanchez to blame for looking like a fella who won a Wetherspoons prize draw to play with his heroes?

I do take issue with Jose selecting Fellaini though; that man is the personification of Manchester United 2013 to 2018; the sight of him makes me ill.

Shaw isnt fat.

Why also when he did play for 3 or 4 games in a row when young was out and he was excellent and the team looked better down the left he is suddenly dropped.

Why does the manager have to insult him in public, saying he used his own brain for shaws body?! Is it any wonder players turn on him

Shaw is as fat as a fool relative to his fellow professionals.

bangkok

Adamocovic wrote: »

Personally would rather him stay on. I think he does take the blame for a lot of the frustration we've seen this season, but that's normal in his position. However a lot of those frustrations have been due to the style of play. I would look at next season as the deciding season.

In terms of results, yes there has been progress, provided we don't slip out of top 4. With another summer break and preparation under his belt with us I don't think many excuses can be used and we will have to see more improvement and consistency.

I'll admit I may judge him harshly at times, maybe due to his time at Chelsea and rooting against him, but I do believe he has done enough to warrant staying on. I'd rather that than starting fresh again with another new manager.

The style of play will never change though thats my worry. No matter who we sign he will still have us playing the same way.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Shaw is as fat as a fool relative to his fellow professionals.

Well unless he put on massive weight since monday then no he is not fat

StringerBell

Mourinho very obviously doesn't deserve to be under any pressure to be sacked right now. Next season will be a big one for him again as the remit for continued job security is constant improvement. We had that in season 1, and we have had that in season 2 (barring it all going hilariously Pete Tong over the remaining league games or the players acting the absolute XXXX)

Last night stung, it stung badly but it doesn't actually undo a season though it might feel like it at the time. The pressing one is odd, I have no idea why now we retreat so deep when at the beginning of the season we were winning the ball higher up the pitch. The passive play needs to stop, if it hasn't and we are still seeing the same patterns next season Mourinho will rightly come under closer scrutiny.

There is no way he is telling them to play that deep all the time, you could see him going mental telling them to push up v Liverpool when they were doing there sit back passive please don't cut through us routine. There will be a lot of bull**** spouted here and elsewhere now which comes with the territory. Pogba and him have a demonstrably fine relationship, warm even. He has improved players, he has brought through players. Tactics or no tactics he isn't actually at fault when a player can't play a 5 yard pass. The excuses that are made for players is unbelievable, he can't pass a ball because he is low on confidence was said about one player. Unbelievable rubbish.

He has said himself he isn't a man for rigid structure when attacking ala LVG and you do see that with players moving around, our issue is mainly that they flood the centre of the pitch more often then not and make it easy to defend. We don't have good full backs in an attacking sense that deliver very good balls into the box. We lack leaders, Bailly who was absolutely shocking last night could be one, Matic could be one, Lukaku will be one but we need them to be doing it now.

Ah look **** the rant, long story short Jose isn't perfect, I don't have any level of hero worship for him but he is doing a good job and should and will continue while he is doing a good job. There is no stand out candidate there to replace him, sad as it may be the only one I would trade him for actually is managing Man City. Give Pep a blank cheque book and away he goes, he will win you things and he will do it in style.

United started the season playing good attacking football, they started the season pressing higher up the pitch, winning the ball back further up the pitch. Why this is no longer the case has so many possibilities I can't say for sure, but I do know that the players are responsible for their own performances. Mourinho took the full blame for last night, did his usual put the spotlight on himself and take the heat off his players as a good manager does in these times,there is an important game on Saturday and the players need to be focused on that.

Too many of them look like it doesn't hurt enough. They owe the supporters some big performances between now and the end of the season, I hope some of them will be gone come next season or at the very least not starting, Valencia and Young have no business starting for teams with championship aspirations, as much as they can have their use and normally won't cost you games. They won't have an impact the other way either. Jesse Lingard is a good player who goes through purple patches of fantastic form, but he is not good enough to be a mainstay in the team. We need another midfielder at the least to make that midfield rock solid.

Up front we are fine,the options are good but they really need to form a good bond and learn to play as a team. We are still so often a collection of good players and a **** team. Sanchez being brought in is now looking absolutely pointless if he is going to be always played on the left, the left didnt actually need to be addressed. The right still needs to be addressed, Martial in particular and Rashford were contributing well on the left. Just a baffling signing if this is going to be the plan.

The rant has continued slightly and I am sorry for that, I have a lot in me right now but no structure to it!

/end before I keep going

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Also there was no justifiable argument for starting Fellaini. Absolutely none.

If Mourinho sat there in the week and decided to play Fellaini to nullify the height of Nzoni from corners and kickouts, he should be marched out the door and fired immediately for gross negligence. And that is the only reason I can fathom why he would break the teams recent momentum to start Fellaini for the first time since like, before Christmas.

Sevilla at home is a game you impose yourself entirely on the opposition. The first leg told enough of a story, even for all our concession this was a smack bang average team. And they were average again last night, but again made to look better by our as some posters have described, cowardly approach.

It was bizarre starting Fellaini after such a long absence from the starting 11. Even for the 'target man' plan, that worked quite well against Liverpool without him on the pitch for the goals.

In fairness to Fellaini - He had 2 shots against Sevilla, one was good and hit the keeper, and one was bad and hit the stands. For both of those shots, it was Fellaini who initially poached the ball back from a Sevilla player and turned the situation into a chance for us. He worked hard for both chances and apart from a scoffed shot with the second chance, he was great in those instances. Neither of them had anything to do with him being a target man, but involved some actual football. He's a good player and not just as a target man, but to get him into the team we have to usually sacrifice more creative players, players who are even better with the ball at feet.

For example, there was a moment when Fellaini received a long, low pass in the first half in an advanced position with his back to goal. Even though he had a bit of space and the pass was good, the ball was poached from him before he could get it under control, never mind turn and look for an option. I can't help but feel that the likes of Mata would have done far better in those close, quick thinking and moving situations. Play Fellaini, sure, but have some creativity to go alongside him as well. Both he and Lingard in at the expense of Mata and McTom, or even Pogba, was an eye-raiser.

This isn't retrospect. When I first saw the line-up last night with that CM duo and an out-of-form Sanchez ahead of them, I expressed concern and asked in a post where our creativity was going to come from. Some said that McTominay needed a rest, and Fellaini would be a defensive boost against Sevilla's set-pieces, and an offensive boost for our own set-pieces.

They were posters in here who said that, and not Jose. But like you say Doc, if this is anywhere near Jose's own thinking for that game and standard of opposition then some questions need to be asked. It seems that was long the lines of his own thinking. Even with DDG playing his goal kicks long from early on, all evidence points to a Plan A of direct, hit and hope football at home to that Sevilla team.

I'm not of the thought that Jose needs to go now, at all, but he needs to realise that this form of football is no longer 'boring but gets the job done'. In the modern game it is just boring and highly ineffective. We are second in the league, but a lot of our wins have not come from the kind of tactics we saw last night or even in the win against Liverpool. Why he seems to be honing in on those tactics as his primary weapon as of late is a mystery to me.

I remember earlier in the season and last season, when lumping it up to the big man in the team was a method Jose would mostly employ in the last 15 minutes when/if we were chasing a result. Recently though, despite creative additions to the team, despite evidence that these big men are good with the ball at feet (Lukaku notably), it seems that lump it from the start is the way to go, and then bring on the creative players for the last 15 minutes when chasing the result (like with Mata and Martial last night). It's now the opposite of what we've seen from earlier in Jose's reign.

If we were facing Real, Atletico or Barca last night, I could understand that 'route one from minute one' approach and be realistic about the defeat. However, that defeat and the manner of it was a disgrace. That was Sevilla's first CL win on English soil. They have never gotten to the QF of the CL before. They have a negative goal difference in La Liga at the moment...there are endless reasons why that defeat and the manner of it are not acceptable.

Something just seemed wrong from quite early on. When you saw Rashford around 30 minutes pick up the ball in our own defensive area, look ahead of him and wave his arms in frustration at the lack of options available, you knew something was rotten in Denmark.

The kind of football we are seeing with Pep at City, that was never Jose's style specifically so we have to be realistic in our expectations. Jose could take us to a league title and back to notable success, but it won't be with the kind of football we see across town. That's ok with me though. It's just, it won't be with the brand Jose used against Sevilla either, and even to beat Liverpool with.

I can not remember a more cautious, slow, disconnected Jose style at any of his other teams that I've seen play regularly. We knew that when Jose came in it could be a 'Win, but it won't be pretty' situation, but in fairness to the man he is capable of far better than his nous demonstrated last night. Never mind attack better, his teams have played better as an actual team in the past, that includes some of his United teams.

With the amount of money already invested on players he requested, Jose needs to be backed for another Summer and a third season once we don't spiral out of the Top 4 between now and May. Hopefully he takes the hurt, humbling and embarrassment from last night and learns from it, uses it to better his team, and not stubbornly double-down on these outdated tactics. I've seen evidence that he can get things right, but this was just a very bad case of him getting things wrong.

GSPfan

No way am I reading those posts.