Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

secman

Now all our eggs are firmly in the FA cup basket , Mourinho needs a performance on Sat from the squad, a very odd k.o time for a Sat evening match, more akin to a midweek game.
Still disgusted with the LOI tactics we used against Seville though.

Drumpot

secman wrote: »

Now all our eggs are firmly in the FA cup basket , Mourinho needs a performance on Sat from the squad, a very odd k.o time for a Sat evening match, more akin to a midweek game.
Still disgusted with the LOI tactics we used against Seville though.

Did you realistically expect a league or champions league win?

I’m with Roy Keane on this, there is still a lot of players who just can’t handle the pressure. I’m also with Stu in that they still look like a bunch of individuals and not a team or unit. Having to change things so frequently hasn’t helped. Central midfield and central defense has had injuries and form issues that have prevented Jose from getting a settled unit.

Bailly was our intended main CB and he has looked solid (bar og) since returning. I’ve never been convinced by smelling or Jones but maybe one of them can strike up a strong partnership with Bailly.

United have been relying on mctominey, a young and inexperienced player, to work with matic. I’m sorry but this clearly says “quality lacking” when we want to be challanging for too honkrs.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0315/947566-united-not-enjoying-the-pressure-or-the-expectation/

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

The style of play will never change though thats my worry. No matter who we sign he will still have us playing the same way.

The style of play which broke goalscorering records in Spain and raised the bar in England ?

When we have the players to go toe to toe with Barca we will.

Kerrydude1981

For the remaining games can we please go back to the style of play that was in place at the start of the season,

I remember the pundits praising Utd about how high they were playing up the pitch and the positions they were winning the ball back

Drumpot

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

For the remaining games can we please go back to the style of play that was in place at the start of the season,

I remember the pundits praising Utd about how high they were playing up the pitch and the positions they were winning the ball back

United were effective at the start of the season but not brilliant. The results masked a lot of deficiencies and many games were a major struggle until the first goal and the team we were playing capitulated under counter attacking tactics and our team getting a confidence boost.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

The style of play which broke goalscorering records in Spain and raised the bar in England ?

When we have the players to go toe to toe with Barca we will.

Jose was lucky he was managing ronaldo, the greatest goalscorer in history who he eventually fell out with over negative tactics

bangkok

Happy birthday to Paul Pogba. 25 today

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Happy birthday to Paul Pogba. 25 today

He said thanks

Still so pissed off

paulbok

bangkok wrote: »

Happy birthday to Paul Pogba. 25 today

I hope you got him a cake?

Mitch Connor

beno619 wrote: »

The style of play which broke goalscorering records in Spain and raised the bar in England ?

When we have the players to go toe to toe with Barca we will.

Do we really not have the players to go toe to toe with Seville?

bangkok

paulbok wrote: »

I hope you got him a cake?

Its ok, hes not yaya toure

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Still so pissed off

When the draw is made tomorrow i will be pissed off again, but we didnt deserve to go through over the 2 legs

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do we really not have the players to go toe to toe with Seville?

No less then we have players to go toe to toe with Newcastle but sometimes for multiple reasons it doesn’t work out. There were plenty of champions league seasons under SAF that we looked way stronger then a team that knocked us out.

A big problem is lack of squad continuity, no strong partnerships in central areas because of lack of quality or injuries.

yourdeadwright

Andrew Beef wrote: »

bangkok wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez has all the hallmarks of a guy who’s trying too hard. He will come good because of his work ethic.

Pogba on the other hand has been nothing short of a disgrace. His United career has been laughably bad, even if you ignore the transfer fee.

Contextualised with the the fact that this guy is the second most expensive player in the history of the game, I mean Jesus Christ...he’s worse than William Prunier!

Yea. I will never take you seriously ever again

Good for you. I will never try to engage with you on a meaningful level, because you, like many others here, seem incapable of thinking logically or in terms of relativity.

It is reasonable to contend that £90m Pogba, who has basically delivered the square root of f..k all at United has been as bad as William Prunier, Eric Djemba-Djemba, or Kleberson...ON A RELATIVE BASIS.

That point, i.e. relative basis, is key; when the fella who cost £90m lets you down it’s far more serious and toxic than (say) someone like Djemba-Djemba not working out.

Don't you know its some fans take it as a personal insult to actually tell the truth about Pogba,
They must at all cost pretend he is world class, when week in week out he is awful , and they will remind you of a half decent game he had aginst Everton, as proof he is world class ,
Nearly 2 years on and he hasn't effected a big game , They defend him like his there own child ,

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

No less then we have players to go toe to toe with Newcastle but sometimes for multiple reasons it doesn’t work out. There were plenty of champions league seasons under SAF that we looked way stronger then a team that knocked us out.

A big problem is lack of squad continuity, no strong partnerships in central areas because of lack of quality or injuries.

Indeed - and when such failings happen consistently surely you have to look at the manager and ask questions of them.

That isn't to say I absolve the players either, but Jose has to take a large portion of the blame.

I personally think our tactical set up and approach to football matches is wrong way too often - with that being the case in both matches vs Seville as a primary example.

yabadabado

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Shaw is as fat as a fool relative to his fellow professionals.

He really isn't but I think you know that.

Lord TSC

Feeling a little less gloomy today. Still so incredibly frustrated.

On paper, we're still having our best PL campaign in years. We're still in the FA Cup. We got knocked out of the CL a round earlier than i expected, against a team I believe we should have steam rolled. I still believe we've progressed this season compared to last, even if it is nowhere near as much as I believe we should have. Given Jose's reactions to the team dropping deep against Pool, I don't believe he's happy with that sort of thing either. Mind, he's also the one instructing them not to push up and to go route one at times.

I can't say anyone presented me a viable, realistic alternative that would make me think Jose could be easily replaced. Pretty much every name offered had a massive question mark over their head in some form. So does Jose. But Jose is in, and I really don't have the energy to think of restarting all over again this summer. I also don't think there's a chance he gets sacked when he gets top 4; we've established missing the CL is what gets managers sacked, and I don't think the board will sack Jose for second and out of the CL a round earlier than expected.

I also think the problems that hit is in the Sevilla game weren't new; other than the result, nothing was on display that I hadn't already accepted still needed to be fixed and I'm hopeful it will be in the summer; new full backs and two new midfielders as well.

Think Astra said though. . . .wish the season was just over now. Let us get to summer, see about getting the final few pieces needed in. The bar has been risen on a multitude of levels this season for next.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Indeed - and when such failings happen consistently surely you have to look at the manager and ask questions of them.

That isn't to say I absolve the players either, but Jose has to take a large portion of the blame.

I personally think our tactical set up and approach to football matches is wrong way too often - with that being the case in both matches vs Seville as a primary example.

Jose does take some of the blame definitely but I think we have to look at the squad he inherited. That squad under performed for 3 seasons under Moyes and LVG. We have no proof the squad Jose inherited was any good cause it’s proven nothing.

As a top coach, used to winning top honors, it’s clear that the manager doesn’t believe the squad was or is strong enough to be challanging at the level we want. People keep mentioning the transfer windows but it’s not like he inherited a squad that was challanging for top honors so it stands to reason that it would take him longer to get in the players he wants . The changes that have been needed don’t just happen in 2 main transfer windows (most targets gotten in summer) because we think they should. Targets aren’t always available.

I think United’s tactical setup is actually a clue as to what Jose thinks do the quality available to him. He knows the quality and character of players he wants and it’s clear that the squad is lacking in these kind of players in key areas.

In central midfield we have matic who is consistent and reliable. For whatever reasons it’s not working for Pogba but maybe a strong partner for matic would help us get the most out of Pogba.

In defense Baillys last two games have shown us what we had been missing. A no nonsense leader with great character. A defender who can still
Perform when all else around him are struggling.

I think eventually we have to stop blaming managers and look at the squad and ask is it really as strong as we think? Is it really good enough to challange city? People keep talking about the negative tactics without considering the fact that maybe the manager , who has won everything in the game, thinks this is the best chance this squad has of challanging for top honors. And maybe he’s right but to accept that means accepting united are way off the pace and the mistakes being made in recruitment are not all just the managers fault.

For all the talk of Klopp and Poch, their teams are not realistic title or European cup winners. They may surprise people but are not favorites and do not suffer from the same expectations that a united squad and manager has to endure. As such they can afford ridiculously poor results and play a more expansive football style.

paulbok

bangkok wrote: »

Its ok, hes not yaya toure

On current form, no

BenK

Drumpot wrote: »

For all the talk of Klopp and Poch, their teams are not realistic title or European cup winners. They may surprise people but are not favorites and do not suffer from the same expectations that a united squad and manager has to endure. As such they can afford ridiculously poor results and play a more expansive football style.

Well Liverpool are more more realistic European Cup winners than United are right now! I don't think saying that United suffer from greater expectations than the likes of Liverpool or Spurs is a great defence for poor tactics and such a conservative play style. It's not like United's style of play has them ahead of either team either (relatively speaking, I know we're second in the league at the moment). All the best teams in Europe play a more expansive football style than United and a lot of them have similar expectations to United.

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Don't you know its some fans take it as a personal insult to actually tell the truth about Pogba,
They must at all cost pretend he is world class, when week in week out he is awful , and they will remind you of a half decent game he had aginst Everton, as proof he is world class ,
Nearly 2 years on and he hasn't effected a big game , They defend him like his there own child ,

Would you not consider the europa league final as a big game?

Chelsea in the league only 2 weeks ago... arsenal away

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Don't you know its some fans take it as a personal insult to actually tell the truth about Pogba,
They must at all cost pretend he is world class, when week in week out he is awful , and they will remind you of a half decent game he had aginst Everton, as proof he is world class ,
Nearly 2 years on and he hasn't effected a big game , They defend him like his there own child ,

Would you not consider the europa league final as a big game?

Chelsea in the league only 2 weeks ago... arsenal away

This is the problem you go back and point at games he hasn't been awful in , Fans are happy now to pick out game where he has been decent and no more ,its laughable,
He was decent against Chelsea that was it, decent, Matic had a better game as usual .,
Again a decent game in the final against the mighty Ajax,
Do you see my point your picking performance that should be below his usual standard and him having just an average game but his standard's have dropped so much your picking these as his best games,

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This is the problem you go back and point at games he hasn't been awful in , Fans are happy now to pick out game where he has been decent and no more ,its laughable,
He was decent against Chelsea that was it, decent, Matic had a better game as usual .,
Again a decent game in the final against the mighty Ajax,
Do you see my point your picking performance that should be below his usual standard and him having just an average game but his standard's have dropped so much your picking these as his best games,

But you are saying in nearly 2 years he hasnt affected a big game when it is simply not true.

Yes he hasnt set the world alight but its simply not true to suggest what you are saying.

He is also not helped by the way jose has our team set up along with the majority of players.

I mean mkhitarayn went from being the best player in germany to a poor player at united.

Jose didnt fancy de bruyne or salah at chelsea now they are the 2 best players in the league

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/973975491706327040

It's the Mirror but it's a decent article.

DM_7

beno619 wrote: »

The style of play which broke goalscorering records in Spain and raised the bar in England ?

When we have the players to go toe to toe with Barca we will.

Crazy for anyone to suggest the way United are playing is his ideal. No way he want Ashley Young on the ball on the half way line more than Sanchez gets it to feet.

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This is the problem you go back and point at games he hasn't been awful in , Fans are happy now to pick out game where he has been decent and no more ,its laughable,
He was decent against Chelsea that was it, decent, Matic had a better game as usual .,
Again a decent game in the final against the mighty Ajax,
Do you see my point your picking performance that should be below his usual standard and him having just an average game but his standard's have dropped so much your picking these as his best games,

But you are saying in nearly 2 years he hasnt affected a big game when it is simply not true.

Yes he hasnt set the world alight but its simply not true to suggest what you are saying.

He is also not helped by the way jose has our team set up along with the majority of players.

I mean mkhitarayn went from being the best player in germany to a poor player at united.

Jose didnt fancy de bruyne or salah at chelsea now they are the 2 best players in the league

But he never really effected them games , is all of a sudden being average effecting a game  ? He could have been replaced by any other united midfielder and if they had a decent average game they'd done the same job he did in those games  ?
You need to take your head out of the sand and realise he will never be a world class player, its ok it happens you don't need to try a defend him ,He's not your child it does not reflect on you ,
Its like a Liverpool fan trying to convince someone Lovren is world class as he's had a few decent games,

fatherted1969

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Sanchez has all the hallmarks of a guy who’s trying too hard. He will come good because of his work ethic.

Pogba on the other hand has been nothing short of a disgrace. His United career has been laughably bad, even if you ignore the transfer fee.

Contextualised with the the fact that this guy is the second most expensive player in the history of the game, I mean Jesus Christ...he’s worse than William Prunier!

Congratulations, If I scoured the internet I don't think I'd find a more ridiculous statement!

Cantona's Collars

How long has our lack of attacking options on the right flank been ignored? Every player we have in forward positions seems to be shoehorned into the left. No balance in the attack and lately we've seen Lukaku having to move out there himself to do a job. Our attack has 2 dimensions,go down the left or direct down the field to Lukaku and hope to profit from the second ball off him.

TheDoc

DM_7 wrote: »

Crazy for anyone to suggest the way United are playing is his ideal. No way he want Ashley Young on the ball on the half way line more than Sanchez gets it to feet.

For important games, or "big games", he's quoted multiple times outlining he doesn't want the defence passing through the midfield as he feels its too risky and plays into the hands of modern pressing tactics.

This results in Pogba and Matic dropping nearly into the defence to just get involved, and means our wide players are facing to and moving towards our own fullbacks receiving clipped balls with defender up their arse.

Most of this is exactly what the manager wants, the only issue he would see if the attack not sorting itself out and scoring goals.

This tie, and his recent CL knockout record (Which is absolutely brutal) should be signal enough to him he needs to change and get inventive and try something different. His method and tactics in these games is outdated and to be frank, pathetic.

If he doesn't, and keeps making excuses and blaming players, then we need to sit patiently for the next few calamities and for the club to sack him so we can move on with progress.

TheDoc

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Congratulations, If I scoured the internet I don't think I'd find a more ridiculous statement!

Seeing that person post about Pogba I've wondered is that how people see me post about Mourinho.

In trouble if so

Cantona's Collars

Reports of dressing room rift.

http://www.football365.com/news/man-united-squad-turn-on-three-players-after-cl-exit

Hmmm,I wonder if some of these players who are unhappy are part of the same group who were unhappy with Moyes,LVG and certain other players in the past. Having this going on is toxic and we laughed at Chelsea for this carry on over the years.

Mitch Connor

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Reports of dressing room rift.

http://www.football365.com/news/man-united-squad-turn-on-three-players-after-cl-exit

Hmmm,I wonder if some of these players who are unhappy are part of the same group who were unhappy with Moyes,LVG and certain other players in the past. Having this going on is toxic and we laughed at Chelsea for this carry on over the years.

I'd be surprised - Carrick and Rooney were leaders in that unrest, one is moving to the coaching team and the other is gone. Think RVP was prime in those issues too - gone. Evra, Rio, Vidic - gone.

Lord TSC

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Reports of dressing room rift.

http://www.football365.com/news/man-united-squad-turn-on-three-players-after-cl-exit

Hmmm,I wonder if some of these players who are unhappy are part of the same group who were unhappy with Moyes,LVG and certain other players in the past. Having this going on is toxic and we laughed at Chelsea for this carry on over the years.

1. Daily Mail?

2. If they are trying to blame Lukaku, they can **** right off. He's the one player who looks like he's absolutely busting his gut, and the best of them right now.

TheDoc

No fan of Roy Keane but did find this funny

“The worry for me was that the manager was saying him and his staff and the players won three trophies last season. My goodness, the manager was including the Charity Shield as a major trophy. My god, you know you’re in trouble.”

Also mentioned its not the players fault some of them arn't good enough, if you get asked to play for United you will. That's a pretty fair point.
Feels the manager needs to get ruthless and cut losses on some players and get 3-4 quality established players

Merit of sense in there. We went through the Van Gaal era on the basis of building on potential and hope. Maybe there is a viable option for Jose to just buy a team that can challenge and win, and when back in a position of power start looking again at integration, building etc. Not sure I agree with it, but part of me has a feeling what will happen this summer.

Daily Fail

MagicIRL

Under José I feel confident that United can win games. Any game is winnable and most of all, United won't concede goals. You can't lose if you don't concede.

I never feel like I will see United dominate a team though. Things started really well at the beginning of the season, with back-to-back 4-0 wins really showing the class in the team.

I just don't see that happening anymore. Like, I can't say I expect it, even when playing a low level opposition.

I can't say I would be happy with the reckless abandon of Klopp, but at least if you watch Liverpool you'll be entertained for 90 mins. You won't win silverware because you sacrifice everything to attack, but you'll be entertained. A step or two back from that is the ideal manager, maybe that's Pep? But even he exerts so much control over the play that things get boring to watch.

I don't really know what I'm talking about. I'm over for the West Brom game in Old Trafford in April and hoping to see some goals, I guess.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

1. Daily Mail?

2. If they are trying to blame Lukaku, they can **** right off. He's the one player who looks like he's absolutely busting his gut, and the best of them right now.

Always find those stories kind of funny. Players don't feel Lukaku is the world class striker we need?

Pobga was brought of the bench to make something happen. Are these starting players annoyed he didn't come on and win them the game they were making a meal of? You'd love for someone to get caught rappa over leaks like this so you can jettison from the club in an embarrassing fashion. "Team feels the three best players arn't carrying the rest hard enough". **** off.

There's also stories circulating this morning, seemingly from Mutu (haha wut) that Zlatan is fit and fine, and had a falling out with the manager and they arn't close anymore.

I'd imagine newspaper and media outlets are going to likely focus on the Mourinho implosion effect, feeling its maybe at a tipping point. I'd expect to see a few of these kind of things coming out over the next while. And it's never a good sign either.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd be surprised - Carrick and Rooney were leaders in that unrest, one is moving to the coaching team and the other is gone. Think RVP was prime in those issues too - gone. Evra, Rio, Vidic - gone.

Maybe they mean a rift after lukaku said players were hiding and its not aimed at him.

I cant imagine the players though are happy with sanchez, i dont think i ever remember a player giving away the ball more than him

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Maybe they mean a rift after lukaku said players were hiding and its not aimed at him.

I cant imagine the players though are happy with sanchez, i dont think i ever remember a player giving away the ball more than him

His petulance and giving out won't be tolerated while hes playing **** like this.

Like I said before he signed, his attitude and pantomime **** will either work positively in spurning the team on and drag some peoples level up, or will cause immediate fractures in the group.

I'd imagine someone coming into the dressing room on the biggest wages, playing utterly dog**** but not getting dropped and then doing his normal strops and giving out, is a pretty quick way to break a dressing room

yourdeadwright

TheDoc wrote: »

Lord TSC wrote: »

1. Daily Mail?

2. If they are trying to blame Lukaku, they can **** right off. He's the one player who looks like he's absolutely busting his gut, and the best of them right now.

Always find those stories kind of funny. Players don't feel Lukaku is the world class striker we need?

Pobga was brought of the bench to make something happen. Are these starting players annoyed he didn't come on and win them the game they were making a meal of? You'd love for someone to get caught rappa over leaks like this so you can jettison from the club in an embarrassing fashion. "Team feels the three best players arn't carrying the rest hard enough". **** off.

There's also stories circulating this morning, seemingly from Mutu (haha wut) that Zlatan is fit and fine, and had a falling out with the manager and they arn't close anymore.

I'd imagine newspaper and media outlets are going to likely focus on the Mourinho implosion effect, feeling its maybe at a tipping point. I'd expect to see a few of these kind of things coming out over the next while. And it's never a good sign either.

I'd imagine player unrest is more the fact that Pogba and Alexis are on trucks loads of money more than them, but there performances have been no better if not worse than the rest,
There is no question players will be looking at the wages Alexis gets and feeling hard done by,

DM_7

TheDoc wrote: »

For important games, or "big games", he's quoted multiple times outlining he doesn't want the defence passing through the midfield as he feels its too risky and plays into the hands of modern pressing tactics.

This results in Pogba and Matic dropping nearly into the defence to just get involved, and means our wide players are facing to and moving towards our own fullbacks receiving clipped balls with defender up their arse.

Most of this is exactly what the manager wants, the only issue he would see if the attack not sorting itself out and scoring goals.

This tie, and his recent CL knockout record (Which is absolutely brutal) should be signal enough to him he needs to change and get inventive and try something different. His method and tactics in these games is outdated and to be frank, pathetic.

If he doesn't, and keeps making excuses and blaming players, then we need to sit patiently for the next few calamities and for the club to sack him so we can move on with progress.

He would want his full backs with more responsibility v a City, Liverpool or any other team pressing hard who have an attacking quality to be hugely wary of. Not at home v Seville, who despite pace of Correa or basic press do not pose the same problems.

Also in any games you want a higher quality full back than Young (please don't offer Shaw as an altenative, he is not a great defender) on the ball. Same the other side with Valencia or at CB in Smalling.

While I fully expect his ideal v a City or even Chelsea is to be very cautious, I don't believe at OT, v Seville that approach is his ideal.

TheDoc

DM_7 wrote: »

He would want his full backs with more responsibility v a City, Liverpool or any other team pressing hard who have an attacking quality to be hugely wary of. Not at home v Seville, who despite pace of Correa or basic press do not pose the same problems.

Also in any games you want a higher quality full back than Young (please don't offer Shaw as an altenative, he is not a great defender) on the ball. Same the other side with Valencia or at CB in Smalling.

While I fully expect his ideal v a City or even Chelsea is to be very cautious, I don't believe at OT, v Seville that approach is his ideal.

No one does, bar the manager. The only one that matters unfortunately.

Think he just made it more important than it needed to be. Cautious and wary in his pre match conference, said it was bigger than the Liverpool game. He just made it a pressured environment and game and fooled himself into treating it as such. That's why his after match stuff is so ridiculous and embarrasing for him, and for me shows he got rattled. To play it down as a big "meh, it happens" after you spend the proceeding days making it bigger then it was, of course there is going to calamitous fallout from an losing.

When he should have simply just rolled out the same team and told them to go win the game.

Actually can't believe none of his staff during the week were like "Eh boss, it's Sevilla at home" Goes to show how much scrutiny they get away with behind the scenes, but in the end the buck stops with the manager.

fatherted1969

TheDoc wrote: »

Seeing that person post about Pogba I've wondered is that how people see me post about Mourinho.

In trouble if so

I do believe Mourinho had a life span in each club he managed and things always started to turn toxic towards the end. I don't see him as anything near a long term manager for us and I get the feeling it's starting to move into that period. Hope I'm wrong.

Don't like him as a manager for Manchester United, didn't like him last year with all the cup wins. Happy enough to support him as he manages my team but I couldn't stand him at Chelsea and the circus he brings to the club and that hasn't changed just cos he's Utd manager

I do believe whatever happens he'll leave the squad in a far better place than he got it though but no I'm not a fan of Mourinho

Adamocovic

With all that's going on forgot really that City got knocked out of the cup by Wigan. Looking at the quarter finals it has to be seen as a great chance for some silverware, even with how poor and inconsistent we've been.

United V Brighton
Wigan V Southampton
Swansea V Spurs
Leicester V Chelsea

I reckon with top 4 seemingly locked in place, provided we don't implode, José will start to focus all of his attention on winning the FA Cup. As I said before, won't paint over the cracks of the season but would be great to finish on some high.

Lord TSC

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I do believe Mourinho had a life span in each club he managed and things always started to turn toxic towards the end. I don't see him as anything near a long term manager for us and I get the feeling it's starting to move into that period. Hope I'm wrong.

Do you not think though that the fact the toxicity seems to occur to every manager at Real and Chelsea should play a role in that discussion though?

Conte is following the same path Jose did; win the league, not given money, players give up, sacked. Every Chelsea manager has to deal with that. At what point do we say maybe Jose wasn't the problem at Chelsea, but the club itself was?

And as far as I know, there was no issues with his departures at Porto or Inter. Both clubs seem to talk very, very highly of him. Hell, Chelsea did too, to the extent they brought him back for a second stint.

fatherted1969

Lord TSC wrote: »

Do you not think though that the fact the toxicity seems to occur to every manager at Real and Chelsea should play a role in that discussion though?

Conte is following the same path Jose did; win the league, not given money, players give up, sacked. Every Chelsea manager has to deal with that. At what point do we say maybe Jose wasn't the problem at Chelsea, but the club itself was?

And as far as I know, there was no issues with his departures at Porto or Inter. Both clubs seem to talk very, very highly of him. Hell, Chelsea did too, to the extent they brought him back for a second stint.

Do you think he's been held back in the transfer market though ? I don't think he has. I think in his earlier stints as manager of Porto, Inter Milan and his first time at Chelsea he did well and was thought well of but I don't believe we're looking at that at his positions at Chelsea (2nd time) and Madrid and with Utd. He's lost something imo.

TheDoc

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Do you think he's been held back in the transfer market though ? I don't think he has. I think in his earlier stints as manager of Porto, Inter Milan and his first time at Chelsea he did well and was thought well of but I don't believe we're looking at that at his positions at Chelsea (2nd time) and Madrid and with Utd. He's lost something imo.

His departure from Inter and start at Real Madrid is like a point on a graph where something changed. And I think that change was he brought himself, his character, style and methods to clubs that were bigger than him. Clubs that had tradition and expectations. And Clubs with staff, players, fans or directors who felt what was happening before them was an abomination of tradition. Then couple on top the fact he's a prick. And that even includes Chelsea second time round. They had expectations of success, forged from his own first stint.

Also people always mention Porto as his start. He started at clubs before then, with some pretty well documented fallouts and damage.

It's what he is, what he always does and no one is(or should) be surprised or shocked by it.

You put up with his general nonsense and frustrating demeanour because he delivers meaningful success and trophies. But when that is not happening, all you have left is a scornful man unable to aportion any blame to himself, so as he starts to point the finger around he starts to fracture the very siege he creates himself in the first place and the club implodes around him.

As much as we can say with certainty that Pep will have another 2-3 years at City before he leaves from burnout or wanting a new challenge, we know Mourinho wont last more than 1-2 seasons before it all turns toxic.

And to be honest where else is there to go after United. PSG? As much as people see that as the obvious link he won't last a season there in the current climate of Neymar ruling all.

Portugal national team?

Dip down a tier of team where his existing methods will be more receptive and appreciated, if he drags a club upward?

Or he can just change and adapt. Someone can grab him and shake him until he realises he needs to change. And he could have every chance of building something special here.

But he won't if he doesnt change significantly and thats where the parody element I talk about comes from. Managers like him become so defensive and protective of their methods they will rail against the critique, and its all about winning "his way" as opposed to just winning.

I'd be able to cope with having a gigantic prick for a manager, if there was some tangible return coming from it.

And that is not to say there hasn't we've won some stuff. But on the whole, and well you know my stance, I havn't bought into the "improvement" part of things as much as others. We have improved for sure, but we should be much further ahead in the cycle then we currently are.

Drumpot

BenK wrote: »

Well Liverpool are more more realistic European Cup winners than United are right now! I don't think saying that United suffer from greater expectations than the likes of Liverpool or Spurs is a great defence for poor tactics and such a conservative play style. It's not like United's style of play has them ahead of either team either (relatively speaking, I know we're second in the league at the moment). All the best teams in Europe play a more expansive football style than United and a lot of them have similar expectations to United.

But all the other top teams in Europe have Squads of players who have been consistently challanging for top honors. United’s squad hasn’t since 2013.

The Golden Miller

TheDoc wrote: »

His departure from Inter and start at Real Madrid is like a point on a graph where something changed. And I think that change was he brought himself, his character, style and methods to clubs that were bigger than him. Clubs that had tradition and expectations. And Clubs with staff, players, fans or directors who felt what was happening before them was an abomination of tradition. Then couple on top the fact he's a prick. And that even includes Chelsea second time round. They had expectations of success, forged from his own first stint.

Also people always mention Porto as his start. He started at clubs before then, with some pretty well documented fallouts and damage.

It's what he is, what he always does and no one is(or should) be surprised or shocked by it.

You put up with his general nonsense and frustrating demeanour because he delivers meaningful success and trophies. But when that is not happening, all you have left is a scornful man unable to aportion any blame to himself, so as he starts to point the finger around he starts to fracture the very siege he creates himself in the first place and the club implodes around him.

As much as we can say with certainty that Pep will have another 2-3 years at City before he leaves from burnout or wanting a new challenge, we know Mourinho wont last more than 1-2 seasons before it all turns toxic.

And to be honest where else is there to go after United. PSG? As much as people see that as the obvious link he won't last a season there in the current climate of Neymar ruling all.

Portugal national team?

Dip down a tier of team where his existing methods will be more receptive and appreciated, if he drags a club upward?

Or he can just change and adapt. Someone can grab him and shake him until he realises he needs to change. And he could have every chance of building something special here.

But he won't if he doesnt change significantly and thats where the parody element I talk about comes from. Managers like him become so defensive and protective of their methods they will rail against the critique, and its all about winning "his way" as opposed to just winning.

I'd be able to cope with having a gigantic prick for a manager, if there was some tangible return coming from it.

And that is not to say there hasn't we've won some stuff. But on the whole, and well you know my stance, I havn't bought into the "improvement" part of things as much as others. We have improved for sure, but we should be much further ahead in the cycle then we currently are.

Milan is the perfect job for him