Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

United’s benchmark for the last 4 seasons has been scraping into the top four not targeting the title. That’s just a fact, no matter what money has been spent, this has been the reality of the club. The mere fact we are talking about challanging city is a testament to what Jose has done.

Challenging city??? Lol

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Hows Sanchez working out for you lads? :pac:

He's been absolutely awful. I'd love to know his ratio of passes completed to the amount of times he gives the ball away.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Challenging city??? Lol

When In the last 4 seasons have united Been the closest team to the league winners? You have an impressive ability to ignore any points that challenges your stance and to respond to posts out of context.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

When In the last 4 seasons have united Been the closest team to the league winners? You have an impressive ability to ignore any points that challenges your stance and to respond to posts out of context.

Last 4 seaons we have finished 22, 17, 15 and 25 points off first.

We are currenly 16 off first and we still have to play city after spending the guts of a quarter of a billion under jose. That is simply not good enough.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Last 4 seaons we have finished 22, 17, 15 and 25 points off first.

We are currenly 16 off first and we still have to play city after spending the guts of a quarter of a billion under jose. That is simply not good enough.

City have spent €513million . . United have spent €379 Million.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/transfers/verein/985/plus/0?saison_id=2016&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=

Cantona's Collars

http://sportwitness.co.uk/verbal-incontinence-failure-mourinho-savaged-spain-man-united-loss/

Spanish press sticking the boot in.

At least they mentioned that he went to the Sevilla dressing room and congratulated them and wished them well in the future of the competition.

beno619

It's incredible how Mourinho has managed to put the focus squarely on himself.

Players getting away with murder, great management imo.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

It's incredible how Mourinho has managed to put the focus squarely on himself.

Players getting away with murder, great management imo.

I agree with this part alright!

deaddonkey15

Drumpot wrote: »

Poch to United is on paper an extremely risky move. He doesn’t have time for big egos like Pogba who would be out the door. Players have to fit into his rigid system (like Jose) or they go. He has won nothing so has no pedigree in success. He has been given three years to grow spurs with relatively no pressure because he doesn’t spend much. Now he will have gargantuan expectations and will
Need to spend big money to catch up with city! There is literally not one thing that points to him being a good choice, especially when some fans won’t give one of the worlds top coaches more then a season and a half to stabilize the club.

That just isn't true though.

Drumpot wrote: »

United’s benchmark for the last 4 seasons has been scraping into the top four not targeting the title. That’s just a fact, no matter what money has been spent, this has been the reality of the club. The mere fact we are talking about challanging city is a testament to what Jose has done.

We finished level on points with City the summer before Guardiola and Mourinho took over. Just under 2 years later and with similar money spent, we are 16 points behind and still have to take our beating from them in a few weeks time. A real testament to what Jose has done indeed.

pjohnson

Drumpot wrote: »

City have spent €513million . . United have spent €379 Million.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/transfers/verein/985/plus/0?saison_id=2016&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=

City are allowed spend whatever they want. Only a problem when Jose spends.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

City have spent €513million . . United have spent €379 Million.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/transfers/verein/985/plus/0?saison_id=2016&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=

Spurs only 4 off us, what have they spent?

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Spurs only 4 off us, what have they spent?

Spurs who finished above us by 17 points last year are now 4 behind us. Do you really think that Spurs, who we gained a 20 point swing on, are the best example to use here?

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Spurs who finished above us by 17 points last year are now 4 behind us. Do you really think that Spurs, who we gained a 20 point swing on, are the best example to use here?

Pocchetino has clearly progressed them this year though, somehow.

VW 1

bangkok wrote: »

Our football is awful to watch, majority of our players have gotten worse over the season, that is not progress. Already talking about 7 players out this season 4 in, anothr hectic summer, city have one of the best left backs in the world to come back into their teamand will prob add one or 2 more players all while playing football that is far beyond what we are playing

Progress has clearly been made in terms of squad members. We have the spine of a team there in DDG, Bailly, Matic, Lukaku. We have added Sanchez who has shown he is world class in the past, and in the medium to long term there is no reason he can't get back to that level.

There are more improvements to be made, to the fullback positions, to the right wing, and to add a first team partner to play centrally with Pogba.

Robson99 wrote: »

Not having a go at you secman as I believe your post is being sarcastic
I would rather be 3rd or 4th and 3 points behind the leaders than 2nd and 16 points.
Out of the league since before xmas is not progress. Its disgraceful considering the money we have spent and Tuesday night has just highlighted that we are going nowhere.
This talk of being second as progress is bull****. We are miles behind the leaders ... that is where the bar is set

Nobody is that close to City, so your point is null and void.

We are in a significantly better position than the past 4 seasons, so progress is being made and it is not bullsh

bangkok wrote: »

2nd 3rd or 4th does it really matter?

Progress is how the team is playing, we are playing worse as the season has gone on.

Has martial, lindeloff, smalling, herrera, pogba, rashford progressed as players. The answer is a massive no

Tell that to Spurs playing lovely football and not being expected to challenge for cups or leaguse.

Swansea played lovely stuff under Rogers, would you rather that?

Bournemouth play nice stuff too, would you not follow them?

Progress is league position/silverware first, and nice football second.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Spurs who finished above us by 17 points last year are now 4 behind us. Do you really think that Spurs, who we gained a 20 point swing on, are the best example to use here?

How much did we spend though compared to spurs to gain them points?

What about how spurs played against one of the best teams in europe compared to us v the 5th best team in spain?

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

How much did we spend though compared to spurs to gain them points?

What about how spurs played against one of the best teams in europe compared to us v the 5th best team in spain?

They bottled a 3-2 aggregate lead and gave away 2 second half away goals?
So [img]http://rs144.pbsrc.com/albums/r200/pixel-panther/More photos Yay/CharlieSheen-BOOMWINNING.jpg?w=280&h=210&fit=crop[/img]

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

How much did we spend though compared to spurs to gain them points?

Whats your point?

Is the arguement that money = improvements or not? You throw out that Spurs are only 4 behind us despite not spending as much. I pointed out that we've gained 20(!) points on Spurs. If they continue to not spend and we continue to spend, that gap will grow bigger too.

So, in other words, doesn't matter what we spent, there's been a very obvious return on investment compared to your beloved Spurs.

What about how spurs played against one of the best teams in europe compared to us v the 5th best team in spain?

And tell me, do they get anything extra for that come seasons end? "Playing well" is all fine and dandy, but it still resulted in them being booted as quickly as we were. It still has them behind us in the league, with, btw, only a single goal more than us scored.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

They bottled a 3-2 aggregate lead and gave away 2 second half away goals?
So [img]http://rs144.pbsrc.com/albums/r200/pixel-panther/More photos Yay/CharlieSheen-BOOMWINNING.jpg?w=280&h=210&fit=crop[/img]

Against juventus.


Did you see the sevilla game? Over 2 legs

TitianGerm

pjohnson wrote: »

They bottled a 3-2 aggregate lead and gave away 2 second half away goals?
So [img]http://rs144.pbsrc.com/albums/r200/pixel-panther/More photos Yay/CharlieSheen-BOOMWINNING.jpg?w=280&h=210&fit=crop[/img]

I suppose at least they were winning though :pac:

StringerBell

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

That's swaying into alternative table territory. City are the benchmark for this United team and Mourinho.

Its not actually, it is a simple fact that sometimes you need to stand back and applaud a team.

City have been amazing this year, I would have thought you and bangkok would have not needed convincing of that and what they are doing is pretty special?

To try to use an outlier as the standard is foolish at best, shady at worst.

The reality is that though this has not been a perfect season for the club this has been one of progress. From missing out on CL football to having it sown up and comfortably in second place in the league beating much admired teams along the way despite the fear of "what will happen when we play x team" and "its gonna be a nightmare playing x" "X is gonna tear us apart"

There is polarization on both sides in most arguments. When people perceive others to be overly negative, or positive they tend to compensate and as a result often go overly positive or negative themselves.

Nobody is using any alternative facts or tables to suggest United have been the best team in some way, United have been the second best team (to this point) in the only table that matters and though you may not like the manager, and a **** load of people didn't even before his appointment and this was never actually going to be easy due to the knives being sharpened before he even took his chair the first day, he is doing his job.

He has overhauled the squad to the point where we can be happy with it and just need to increase quality now rather then quantity. He has won trophies, he has turned the club around from missing out on the CL and worrying about qualification to people pissing and moaning about being so far behind a superb City team while comfortably being the next best in the league.

That is progress as much as a lot of you don't like to swallow it.

There is criticism from the same corners whether we win, but not in a perfect way that aligns with their ideals, when we draw it is a disaster and when we lose,by **** is that the end of the world! The bile is very rarely far from the surface or concealed well. Then you have outright lies spread and the usual double standard applied, used to be just cause it was United, now its the unholy alliance of Mourinho and United. A wet dream for sections of the media, the opposition fans and unfortunately sections of United fans.

The worst case scenario gets put forward often as the most plausible outcome whereas when the counter point is made it is met with response of "I really can't see that happening" That is an issue for a posters own mentality, always able to see the most negative possibility no problem but just can't fathom a positive one.

If Jose Mourinho is still manager this time next season (and he will be) and United go out of the CL with a whimper like that in the last 16, and fail to mount a realistic title challenge he will come under serious pressure. The fact that some think he should be under it now given where the club is in relation to where it was when he came in is frankly laughable, and it is laughable Im sure to all who matter also.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

Spurs who finished above us by 17 points last year are now 4 behind us. Do you really think that Spurs, who we gained a 20 point swing on, are the best example to use here?

He does because he doesn't know any better.

Lord TSC

Liverpool vs City in the CL :P

Sevilla got Bayern too.

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

Liverpool vs City in the CL :P

Sevilla got Bayern too.

Wrong thread :P

TitianGerm

Lord TSC wrote: »

Liverpool vs City in the CL :P

.

Who did United get?...... Oh wait they weren't in the draw :P

bangkok

Some great ties in that champions league draw

paulbok

Must be a lot of schools off for the long weekend

Will I Am Not

TitianGerm wrote: »

Who did United get?...... Oh wait they weren't in the draw :P

Surely you can do better than that?

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Whats your point?

Is the arguement that money = improvements or not? You throw out that Spurs are only 4 behind us despite not spending as much. I pointed out that we've gained 20(!) points on Spurs. If they continue to not spend and we continue to spend, that gap will grow bigger too.

So, in other words, doesn't matter what we spent, there's been a very obvious return on investment compared to your beloved Spurs.



And tell me, do they get anything extra for that come seasons end? "Playing well" is all fine and dandy, but it still resulted in them being booted as quickly as we were. It still has them behind us in the league, with, btw, only a single goal more than us scored.

If we continue spending money and dont develop our football then no we wont improve.

Spurs are a team, we are a bunch of poor individual.

Bob Harris

Madrid/Juve Barca/Roma Sevilla/Munich - not much of interest there but Liverpool v Cith will be entertaining it has to be said. Hard to know who you want to lose. Well, not really...it's Liverpool.

VW 1

bangkok wrote: »

Against juventus.


Did you see the sevilla game? Over 2 legs

Is that a goal post being moved? The point was that Spurs capitulated and showed a weak mentality (again) from a winning position, yet were lauded for their brave and gutsy performance.

We played extremely poorly and deservedly went out, nobody is arguing that.

The net result is the same, neither us nor Spurs are in the draw that just took place.

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

If we continue spending money and dont develop our football then no we wont improve.

Spurs are a team, we are a bunch of poor individual.

Right. But using Spurs as the example actually proves your point wrong.

United outspent Spurs, and we've shot past them in the league. We saw a 20 point swing in the league so far.

This is in spite of United playing worse football than Spurs.

Spurs aren't spending money, are playing better than us, yet have lost massive grounds on us. They are playing better than us, yet have only scored a single goal more than us.
We'll spend more money, the football for us can only improve...ergo, Spurs are going to be in a position where they could see us launch even further past them.

Spurs are a dreadful example to be using for the point you think you're trying to prove. It shows spending money HAS shown us a massive improvement despite poor football.

Cantona's Collars

TitianGerm wrote: »

Who did United get?...... Oh wait they weren't in the draw :P

Something, something, Sh1te stirring, something, something answer of the same team Liverpool drew in the FA Cup.

Zzzzzzzzz.

jayo26

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Surely you can do better than that?

Too busy celebrating getting through rounds now to think up of better ones.

I've never seen any bunch of lads do as much bulsh1tting for making it through a round. They talk about standards dropping at least we bloody celebrated winning trophies last season.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Right. But using Spurs as the example actually proves your point wrong.

United outspent Spurs, and we've shot past them in the league. We saw a 20 point swing in the league so far.

This is in spite of United playing worse football than Spurs.

Spurs aren't spending money, are playing better than us, yet have lost massive grounds on us. They are playing better than us, yet have only scored a single goal more than us.
We'll spend more money, the football for us can only improve...ergo, Spurs are going to be in a position where they could see us launch even further past them.

Spurs are a dreadful example to be using for the point you think you're trying to prove. It shows spending money HAS shown us a massive improvement despite poor football.

20 point swing me arse. We didnt even try in the league last year, put all our eggs in the europa league and got a handy draw all the way through.

This season the expectation was a title challenged and a decent run in europe. We have failed miserably in both

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

Too busy celebrating getting through rounds now to think up of better ones.

I've never seen any bunch of lads do as much bulsh1tting for making it through a round. They talk about standards dropping at least we bloody celebrated winning trophies last season.

Speaking of bullsh1t, Topman had to remove a range of sweatshirts referencing Bob Marley as they had the number 96 on them and the words of the track What goes around,comes around. Liverpool fans thought it was referring to Hillsborough.

jayo26

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Speaking of bullsh1t, Topman had to remove a range of sweatshirts referencing Bob Marley as they had the number 96 on them and the words of the track What goes around,comes around. Liverpool fans thought it was referring to Hillsborough.

Seen that paranoia at its best I thought it was a lovely shirt

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

20 point swing me arse. We didnt even try in the league last year, put all our eggs in the europa league and got a handy draw all the way through.

This season the expectation was a title challenged and a decent run in europe. We have failed miserably in both

You can do better

beno619

Bob Harris wrote: »

Madrid/Juve Barca/Roma Sevilla/Munich - not much of interest there but Liverpool v Cith will be entertaining it has to be said. Hard to know who you want to lose. Well, not really...it's Liverpool.

Dare I say it, id prefer Pool to win and ruin any Pep notions of some sort of treble.

I dont see Pool winning it outright.

deaddonkey15

StringerBell wrote: »

If Jose Mourinho is still manager this time next season (and he will be) and United go out of the CL with a whimper like that in the last 16, and fail to mount a realistic title challenge he will come under serious pressure. The fact that some think he should be under it now given where the club is in relation to where it was when he came in is frankly laughable, and it is laughable Im sure to all who matter also.

16 points behind City with 8 or so games to play relative to being level with them and only a position lower due to goal difference? That's laughable alright.

Yeah City are extraordinary this season, in no small part down to the manager backing his players and playing a system that gets the most out of them. Can the same be said about Mourinho? No.

As good as City have been, I don't believe this squad is 16 points worse off than them. You don't have to be exceptional to avoid defeat to Newcastle and Huddersfield, or avoid being held to a draw at home to Burnley or Southampton, or avoid putting in an embarrassing display over 2 legs to an ordinary Sevilla team.

I agree progress has been made to an extent. We've established ourselves as a top 4 side again and got back into the Champions League. However, we are as close to the league leaders this season as we were at similar stages in the last 3 or 4 seasons. And we're light years away from establishing ourselves as a CL heavyweight again if we don't have the courage to try and beat a side that will likely be playing Europa League football next season. We had a more impressive CL campaign under Moyes.

fatherted1969

I'm very much in the meh camp as regards position. Would have said at the start of the season that 2nd would be ok as it would indicate a challenge of sorts for the league. That's certainly not the case even though we're 2nd. Forget about the teams below us, have we improved on our play from last year ? Think we'd be having a different conversation if Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal had any sort of a decent season.


I get that we've no control over other teams but all I'm seeing at the moment is players coming in on massive fees and massive wages and are a shadow of the players they were. Whatever people may think of Klopp, Pep, Poch and Conte they seem to either get the same performances out of their purchases or they improve them greatly. For some reason our players are going in the opposite direction.

Position in the league doesn't change that. Maybe I was spoilt in the Fergie era but positions 2nd 3rd or 4th wherever we finish does nothing for me. I always knew we'd have a big reaction the following season. My faith in Mourinho isn't great

magnumbud

beno619 wrote: »

Dare I say it, id prefer Pool to win and ruin any Pep notions of some sort of treble.

I dont see Pool winning it outright.

you say that but similar was said last time they won it. get passed city and get a lot of luck the next round and then in the final and 1 off games who knows

bangkok

City are champions league favourites. If liverpool beat them and get to a semi final anything can happen

beno619

magnumbud wrote: »

you say that but similar was said last time they won it. get passed city and get a lot of luck the next round and then in the final and 1 off games who knows

Then its a question of who I hate more Pool or Pep.... difficult.

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

Then its a question of who I hate moor Pool or Pep.... difficult.

I'd hate to see City win, moreso than Pool. Would far rather City go out quicker. Also think it would be funny to see Pool's defense try to match up against a Messi, or a Ronaldo, or that sort of superteam.

So yeah, quicker City go out the better.

bangkok

As a manager i much prefer klopp over pep. As a team i would rather city win as i dont know many city supporters

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd hate to see City win, moreso than Pool. Would far rather City go out quicker. Also think it would be funny to see Pool's defense try to match up against a Messi, or a Ronaldo, or that sort of superteam.

So yeah, quicker City go out the better.

Or united defence against ben yedder

fatherted1969

Never ever could I pick Liverpool over city. Too many years have passed. May they never return to their perch. City are Blackburn of 20 years ago, a rich man's plaything. That won't sustain. If they can't full their stadium with the football they play and the competitions they're still in imagine what an indifferent season will bring

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd hate to see City win, moreso than Pool. Would far rather City go out quicker. Also think it would be funny to see Pool's defense try to match up against a Messi, or a Ronaldo, or that sort of superteam.

So yeah, quicker City go out the better.

Nah I'm the other way, get the other lot out in humiliating fashion if possible now. City don't have much of a defence either and when they play the likes of Barca, just like when Pep has gone up against them before and refused/been unable to alter his tactical approach (or even Madrid tbh) they will likely come undone then.

Drumpot

So Pep has spent nearly 30% more on transfers then Jose. Why do people not feel this has any relevance to the expected results/success?

That’s €140 million in quality that Pep has been able to acquire.

You see people will no doubt say “that doesn’t explain our crap football” which is true. But it does mean that it is harder for any united manager to build a team to the very best level, when there is a team consistently outspending them.

Before people start saying “well what about net spend”, I would say look at city’s spending for the last 10 years. Most season it’s more then united so it stands to reason that have a more expensive squad and can get more money for players they offload. So net spend is a red herring argument.

A fair question is if city are spending 30% more then united on transfers why should united fans EXPECT the team to be challanging or overtaking them?

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/974631426980306946?s=19