Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

adox

Scholes length of career at Utd or how great he was in his career has nothing really to do with my original opinion and the opinions of others on both sides of the argument.

I said Veron was probably the best midfielder in the world when we signed him(in 2001). That means I think he was probably better than any midfielder in the world at that time.

No one is comparing the careers of Scholes and Veron and saying that Veron had the better career or that he played at a high level for longer so I don’t know why that’s been brought into it.

Also I don’t think Scholes has been underrated either on here or by Utd fans in general. Mismanaged by a couple of England managers for sure.

StringerBell

Rolling out pogba stats in a one team league is a bit funny you know.

Thiugh were you agreeing with his post that he had 5 good seasons (was 4 Max tbf) or are you proving his point while still attempting to disagree with it somehow?

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

are you saying he was better than scholes over his career or just up to the point we signed him??

The point we signed him obviously.. what part of “when we signed him he was probably the best MF in the world” are you not understanding.. you are looking at their careers as a whole to validate your points.

adox

Actually thinking about the Pogba Veron comparison again, in as much as both remind me of each other with their careers at Utd, I would say on the flip side of that if you flipped the signings around and had Pogba sign in 2001 and Veron in 2016 I think the two of them would have had much better careers at the club.

StringerBell

Obviously some people have been paying attention tbf

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

The point we signed him obviously.. what part of “when we signed him he was probably the best MF in the world” are you not understanding.. you are looking at their careers as a whole to validate your points.

yea, i cant agree with that, surprised anyone could actually think that. scholes was in his prime then, easily hitting over 10 goals a season.

also on the the back of scholes winning a treble in 99 and another 2 leagues after that.

adox

bucketybuck wrote: »

What you really need to remember is that the opposition were irrelevant here. People keep going on about Seville this, Seville that, Seville were a weak side, should be beating Seville, Seville, Seville, Seville.

Seville are irrelevant, it doesn't matter if they were inferior opposition because that team would have produced that same performance against Juve, Barca, Bayern, Roma, Liverpool, Brazil 1970 or Accrington ****ing Stanley.

We know this because we have seen it, again and again and again. We have seen them show up against Liverpool, but also seen them play useless against Liverpool. We have seen them beat Arsenal and lose to Newcastle. Beat Spurs and also get beaten by Spurs. We have seen it multiple times because those performances are what this team does.

All week people are bashing the manager for tactics and lineup when all season it hasn't mattered a damn what tactics or lineup he puts on the field, those same players will **** the bed regardless. How do we know? Because we have seen it all season. Wasn't anybody watching?

The best part is that people are losing their minds over something we all predicted months ago...

Look Buckety we get it. We are all aware of the above. This wasn’t a one off. This was a two off(semantics to a point I know) but it was beyond ****ting the bed imo. Anyway I’ve stated my thoughts and concerns so how about you do the same. We know you arent surprised when Utd are crap, lose and sh1t the bed. You tell us every time it happens and people voice their concern.

What you don’t actually tell us is what you think should be done about it?

I’ve loads of time for your posts and opinions(I’m sure I can hear you typing already “I couldn’t give a toss whether you have time for my posts or not, it makes no difference to me..”) but you popping in every time we lose and people voicing their concerns with “sure I knew this would happen, why are you surprised etc etc etc becomes a little tiresome, especially when you don’t seem to be putting forward any solutions to remedy it.

bucketybuck

adox wrote: »

Look Buckety we get it. We are all aware of the above. This wasn’t a one off. This was a two off(semantics to a point I know) but it was beyond ****ting the bed imo. Anyway I’ve stated my thoughts and concerns so how about you do the same. We know you arent surprised when Utd are crap, lose and sh1t the bed. You tell us every time it happens and people voice their concern.

What you don’t actually tell us is what you think should be done about it?

I’ve loads of time for your posts and opinions(I’m sure I can hear you typing already “I couldn’t give a toss whether you have time for my posts or not, it makes no difference to me..”) but you popping in every time we lose and people voicing their concerns with “sure I knew this would happen, why are you surprised etc etc etc becomes a little tiresome, especially when you don’t seem to be putting forward any solutions to remedy it.

No problem, I'll leave you to the Bangkok show then.

StringerBell

M.E.N running a headline "Manchester United fans Love Jose Mourinhos passion in 12 minute press rant"

I feel they must be trolling some of ye

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

No problem, I'll leave you to the Bangkok show then.

??

adox

bucketybuck wrote: »

No problem, I'll leave you to the Bangkok show then.

Ah Jaysus. So that’s a no then.

It’s bizzare that you consistently post that we shouldn’t be surprised with **** results and performances and intimate it’s some of the players fault. If you aren’t in the least bit surprised then you obviously think you have a handle on what the problem(s) is. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable asking your opinions on what they are. Is it all on the players? If so what players? Do we need to replace 2, 3, 4, 15 players? Does the manager have any part to play in all of this?

~Rebel~

TheDoc wrote: »

Bizarre press conference from Mourinho, utterly bizarre.

Also bringing his relationship with Pogba back into sharp focus, with his reference to the key players the next manager will inherit.

That was a bloody weird one alright! You could almost see him realizing what a bad idea it was to try to make that point halfway through.

He was trying to argue that he arrived to garbage, but would be leaving the next manager in a position of great strength with the player's he'd brought in. But all he could name of his purchases was Lukaku and Matic - Matic who will be 30+ for any future manager. Same with Sanchez, which I presume is why he didn't say him. And obviously couldn't mention the exciting young talents like Martial and Rashford as they were already there, and would've taken away from his point.

The really obvious one he had to say was Pogba. Pogba the genuine talent that nearly every team in the world would love to have. And he couldn't say his name. Have to figure with a good offer, Pogba will be gone in the summer.

Cantona's Collars

Embargo lifted on the full presser. Here's the rest of what he said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/jose-mourinho-rant-press-conference-manchester-united-full-transcript-a8260251.html

StringerBell

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Embargo lifted on the full presser. Here's the rest of what he said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/jose-mourinho-rant-press-conference-manchester-united-full-transcript-a8260251.html

Is there anything new in that? Pretty sure the full 12 minute thing was what I saw earlier

Cantona's Collars

StringerBell wrote: »

Is there anything new in that? Pretty sure the full 12 minute thing was what I saw earlier

The 12 minutes was for the cameras,this is the second part for the written press.

DM_7

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Embargo lifted on the full presser. Here's the rest of what he said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/jose-mourinho-rant-press-conference-manchester-united-full-transcript-a8260251.html

Sample for anyone wondering it any is new

Question: Are you saying to fans be more realistic and have lower expectations?


Answer: I’m saying the fans have to be sad with being out and the players have to learn how to cope with that level of expectation and that level of pressure. They have to survive and when they survive they become stronger. An easy life and the fans not upset and no critics, that’s not good. If you want to make a real top team with top mentality, they need to grow up and the best way to grow up is to have this kind of feeling. I don’t want the fans to have low expectations, I want the fans to have high expectations because I want the players to have expectations too.

adox

Jose bigging himself up while criticizing the players.

This really isn’t going to end well.

jayo26

I actually don't think Jose could say anything without it been twisted to a negative.

If he praises the players he is been blind if he says they need to grow up he is bigging himself up.

He never said the players were bad he said they need to be stronger and so on and anyone that looked at that game Tuesday night knows the players were mentally weak.

The only thing else Jose should of done was come and say that he got his tactics wrong but that wont happen.

Drumpot

DM_7 wrote: »

Sample for anyone wondering it any is new

Question: Are you saying to fans be more realistic and have lower expectations?


Answer: I’m saying the fans have to be sad with being out and the players have to learn how to cope with that level of expectation and that level of pressure. They have to survive and when they survive they become stronger. An easy life and the fans not upset and no critics, that’s not good. If you want to make a real top team with top mentality, they need to grow up and the best way to grow up is to have this kind of feeling. I don’t want the fans to have low expectations, I want the fans to have high expectations because I want the players to have expectations too.

I am reading that the players found the expectations of beating Seville to be a heavy burden which possibly affected performance. That fans should expect more and players need to grow from the loss. So the best lessons can be learned in failure that can help build character.

Sounds like something Yoda said to Luke in the last Jedi. If it’s good advice from Yoda then it’s good advice. That’s just a known fact.

StringerBell

I actually thought people would read that Q and A and get what his view on things is or what he is trying to do, then I saw Adox post and realised its just not going to happen.

As has been said, he will be taken negatively whatever he says.

He literally lays out that he does not want fans to lower expectations, that he wants the players to grow up into having a top team mentality, something I thought everybody could agree they don't have. He wants them to have and meet high expectations, to cope with the pressure, which again would be something I would have thought everybody could agree that they are not very good at doing up to this point. He wants to use this experience to galvanise the squad going forward.

If that amounts to criticising the players unfairly who he has gone out of his way to protect on many occasions when again we know the players have shat the bed I would consider that pretty gentle criticism. He cajoles only when absolutely necessary I feel. You can't molly coddle and tell them its ok all the time but he seems to be fully aware that a lot of them don't have that top player fighting mentality you see in the likes of Lukaku more obviously lately.

We have a big game tomorrow, from his POV it was better to have the media focus on him for the week rather how players like Sanchez, Pogba etc can't pass the ****ing football or cope when pressed by a team playing a high line. It is important to pick the players up after that disappointment and get them focused on the weekend. He put that into action straight after the game, he did his job.

I don't take what he said there as a criticism of the players, in his own way he is again actually absolving them of much blame by putting it down as a building block for the future, helping them get the mentality needed. He is attempting to spin the negative result/performance into something positive, every cloud type stuff. Is that likely bollix? Maybe, but thats his judgement of what the situation calls for so we have to deal with that.

No matter who the manager is you will disagree with courses of action they pursue now and then (yes even the GOAT made his share of **** ups) Lets see how it pans out. As he said, he will be here. He is always here.

StringerBell

There is literally no excuse for the lack of fight when going out of the champions league both the players and manager have plenty of blame to carry in that regard, probably safer for me to reiterate that point.

Cantona's Collars

Daily mirror saying that Juventus have met with Martial's representative's to try force a move in the summer.

I'm definitely calling bs in this as they'd want him for a fiver.

Minderbinder

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Daily mirror saying that Juventus have met with Martial's representative's to try force a move in the summer.

I'm definitely calling bs in this as they'd want him for a fiver.

Unless some kind of player exchange?

To be honest I’m tired of big player turnover and I hope Jose was telling the truth when he said we wouldn’t be signing any attacking players in the summer. I’m happy that Rashford and Martial are continuing to improve and I’m hopeful a more stable team and squad will yield better performances and results.

Lord TSC

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Daily mirror saying that Juventus have met with Martial's representative's to try force a move in the summer.

I'm definitely calling bs in this as they'd want him for a fiver.

€75m was the figure I saw as their opening offer.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

€75m was the figure I saw as their opening offer.

€75m plus Dybala?

Ninthlife

I watched the press conference and to be honest I think Mourinho is just being realistic. He called it 'football 'eritage' but it was simply the truth.

In the past number of seasons United havent been progressing in the Champions League and have a highest place finish of 4th so for people to think we should automatically be entitled to more is wrong. He has come in and despite his methods has improved that recent 'football 'eritage'

The lifted embargo piece further clarifies that the sense of United should be doing better is welcomed as it will prepare the players for the future when we do progress further. The loss although really ****ty will hopefully be a lesson to the players who will use that experience so it doesnt happen again.

Mourinho saying Im here is a statement of intent not to leave just because things havent gone to plan but he wants to stay prove people wrong and when he does go leave a winning succesful experienced team for the next manager.

Thats my positive take on it all. Heres hoping s good positive performance and result today

GSPfan

What is Liverpools European Heritage over the last 7 years? Saying your 7 year history has an effect on the team today is bullshít.

Watched all of the stuff he said and it worries me more than ever because he is basically arguing that nothing is wrong with him, that it’s the players who need to change. Singling out a couple of players as the only players to be performing is a bit shítty.

I’d like to think the players will be inspired by what he said but I can imagine them all being píssed off unfortunately. We’ll see how the next few games go.

Ninthlife

GSPfan wrote: »

What is Liverpools European Heritage over the last 7 years? Saying your 7 year history has an effect on the team today is bullshít.

Watched all of the stuff he said and it worries me more than ever because he is basically arguing that nothing is wrong with him, that it’s the players who need to change. Singling out a couple of players as the only players to be performing is a bit shítty.

I’d like to think the players will be inspired by what he said but I can imagine them all being píssed off unfortunately. We’ll see how the next few games go.

Alot of the players attitude and desire does need to change though. I dont see where he is throwing players under the bus. Maybe im being overly positive in reading into what he is saying.

Maybe that defeat to Sevilla will be the lesson both players and management need

jayo26

GSPfan wrote: »

What is Liverpools European Heritage over the last 7 years? Saying your 7 year history has an effect on the team today is bullshít.

Watched all of the stuff he said and it worries me more than ever because he is basically arguing that nothing is wrong with him, that it’s the players who need to change. Singling out a couple of players as the only players to be performing is a bit shítty.

I’d like to think the players will be inspired by what he said but I can imagine them all being píssed off unfortunately. We’ll see how the next few games go.

I don't see why the players are going to be pissed off you have to remember it's different for them they are around him every day.. We are just reading what he says in a press conference in 5 mins.

People are saying that he has pissed off certain players since he started but it's never looked liked that.

Lord TSC

People are taking the easy step and playing semantics with a guy for whom English is a second language. And as such, the word "heritage" is being leapt on, when it strikes me that it was a mix up between the words "heritage" and "inheritance". Sports Witness talks about it on Twitter a bit...

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/974654218601730049

Pulling some of their notes from their various tweets...

On Mourinho's rant. To calm it a little, think he perhaps meant 'inheritance' rather than 'heritage', which would make more sense.

Mourinho, "Fans have the right to their reactions, but there is something that I used to call football heritage. What a manager inherits is something like the last time United reached the the CL final, which, hasn't happened a lot, was in 2011."

See here, 'inheritance' would make more sense, and if he's got the two confused once that it would likely be the same for other times he's used the word today.

(...)Whereas Mourinho was talking more short term, and the situation at the club he’d inherited. Eg, ‘Mourinho inherited a team which perhaps didn’t match the great heritage of the club’.

(...)He did ask for help during the press conference and everyone said he'd picked the right word, but I don't think they knew how he'd then use it. Just a big misunderstanding.


Is anyone going to argue that the team has been mishandled over the last 7 years? That the squad wasn't massively neglected in the final Fergie year, Moyes and LVG's tenure? That the squad Pep got in, that he inherited, wasn't better than what Jose got?

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

People are taking the easy step and playing semantics with a guy for whom English is a second language. And as such, the word "heritage" is being leapt on, when it strikes me that it was a mix up between the words "heritage" and "inheritance". Sports Witness talks about it on Twitter a bit...

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/974654218601730049

Pulling some of their notes from their various tweets...

On Mourinho's rant. To calm it a little, think he perhaps meant 'inheritance' rather than 'heritage', which would make more sense.

Mourinho, "Fans have the right to their reactions, but there is something that I used to call football heritage. What a manager inherits is something like the last time United reached the the CL final, which, hasn't happened a lot, was in 2011."

See here, 'inheritance' would make more sense, and if he's got the two confused once that it would likely be the same for other times he's used the word today.

(...)Whereas Mourinho was talking more short term, and the situation at the club he’d inherited. Eg, ‘Mourinho inherited a team which perhaps didn’t match the great heritage of the club’.

(...)He did ask for help during the press conference and everyone said he'd picked the right word, but I don't think they knew how he'd then use it. Just a big misunderstanding.


Is anyone going to argue that the team has been mishandled over the last 7 years? That the squad wasn't massively neglected in the final Fergie year, Moyes and LVG's tenure? That the squad Pep got in, that he inherited, wasn't better than what Jose got?

I just seen the press conference this morning and dont see why anyone has a problem it was far from what lvg or moyes was saying.

It still don't take away from what happened Tuesday night tho that was still shocking.

Nalz

jayo26 wrote: »

I just seen the press conference this morning and dont see why anyone has a problem it was far from what lvg or moyes was saying.

It still don't take away from what happened Tuesday night tho that was still shocking.

+1 on this. In it's simple form the above post is 100% on the money.

Lord TSC

jayo26 wrote: »

I just seen the press conference this morning and dont see why anyone has a problem it was far from what lvg or moyes was saying.

It still don't take away from what happened Tuesday night tho that was still shocking.

Oh absolutely. But I saw people in here saying Jose is trying to lower expectations. Which is the utter opposite of what he said...

No, no I'm saying the fans have to be sad that we're out. And the players need to learn to cope with that level of expectation, and that level of pressure, and they have to survive, and when they survive, they become stronger.

Because easy life, and the fans not upset, and the no critics, that's not good. Because if you want to make a real top team, with top mentality, they need to grow up, they need to grow up. And the best way to grow up is to have these kinds of feeling.

So I don't want the fans to have lower expectations, I want the fans to have high expectations, and I want the players to have high expectations.

bangkok

I dont care what he said in the press conference. The performance on tuesday night was pathetic, he hasnt answered one question on the tactics he used.

Rashford on the right wing after a motm.display v liverpool on the left.

Mctominay dropped for fellaini

Mata dropped after an excellent performance

All the players apart from lukaku dropping off when sevilla had the ball.

Using a stoke like tactic of going long for i dont know how many months now

Squad is clearly unhappy and lacking in confidence and its showing on the pitch for all to see

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

I dont care what he said in the press conference.

No ****.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

No ****.

All excuses no explanation

fergiesfolly

What gets me, is that four days after getting knocked out of a huge competition by a very average team, people are discussing the semantics of the managers press conference.
This weekend's media/ newspaper coverage will focus on the presser and not the god awful performance by his team. If nothing else, he's the master of deflection

DM_7

GSPfan wrote: »

What is Liverpools European Heritage over the last 7 years? Saying your 7 year history has an effect on the team today is bullshít.

Watched all of the stuff he said and it worries me more than ever because he is basically arguing that nothing is wrong with him, that it’s the players who need to change. Singling out a couple of players as the only players to be performing is a bit shítty.

I’d like to think the players will be inspired by what he said but I can imagine them all being píssed off unfortunately. We’ll see how the next few games go.

His simple point is Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve are there so often because they have the experience to build upon. He even said you get a Monaco scenario who come and go.

Maybe look at history of Man United or even Real Madrid over past 20 years and see it takes bad experiences to get to the very top in Europe. Very few teams that win from nowhere, without incremental improvements and going through pain will sustain any real success (can you think of any).

Porto, Liverpool, Dortmund, Inter in Europe. Leicester, Montpellier, Valencia, Wolfsburg across domestic leagues show similar trend.

I am glad he wants United to have something sustainable.


None of that changes Seville was an almighty **** up.

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

His simple point is Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve are there so often because they have the experience to build upon. He even said you get a Monaco scenario who come and go.

Maybe look at history of Man United or even Real Madrid over past 20 years and see it takes bad experiences to get to the very top in Europe. Very few teams that win from nowhere, without incremental improvements and going through pain will sustain any real success (can you think of any).

Porto, Liverpool, Dortmund, Inter in Europe. Leicester, Montpellier, Valencia, Wolfsburg across domestic leagues show similar trend.

I am glad he wants United to have something sustainable.


None of that changes Seville was an almighty **** up.

It's two very different things imo.

Jose addresses why it would be unreasonable to expect us to win the league or the CL yet.

I mostly agree with him.

He does not address the fact part of the reason we won't win the league or CL is cause we play rubbish football too often and have thrown away matches with poor tactics, mentality and performances.

I'm fine with not winning the CL. Going out to Seville having been outplayed in both matches is the issue, and he doesn't address it. He just points to the general context, not the specific.

adox

The whole reading out the stats over the last 7 years was cringeworthy.

Awful stuff.

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

The whole reading out the stats over the last 7 years was cringeworthy.

Awful stuff.

Fact.

adox

What a bizzare time for an FA cup quarter final to be on, especially on a Saturday!

Lord TSC

adox wrote: »

What a bizzare time for an FA cup quarter final to be on, especially on a Saturday!

Clashes with Ant & Dec too

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

Clashes with Ant & Dec too

And The Voice. :pac:

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

Clashes with Ant & Dec too

adox wrote: »

And The Voice. :pac:

Perfect timing for pints and football tho.

adox

jayo26 wrote: »

Perfect timing for pints and football tho.

Haven’t drank in 17 years. :eek:

I’d love to see Sanchez have a good game tonight and get on the scoresheet.
I know he has been really poor the last few games but I thought he started quite well at Utd in his first couple of games and showed real quality.

Since then he seems to have lost is mojo completely and if anything seems to be trying too hard. There seems to be an anxiousness in his play.

Trigger

Actually a good day of sports

Swansea v Spurs

England v Ireland

Wales vs France or Liverpool vs Watford

And then our game..

Great day for the pub

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

I dont care what he said in the press conference. The performance on tuesday night was pathetic, he hasnt answered one question on the tactics he used.

Of course you don't care what he said but you cared yesterday when you read snip bits of it that mosquitoes him as saying city had more heritage then us.

That's typical you all over quote the shocking stuff and then ignore what puts things into perspective I know you don't care what other people think about your opinion on repeat you for that have said it many times but it has been said so many times how you run around in circles and run away when someone legitimately challenges something you say that's been proven false and you move onto an entirely different argument.

No one here has ever said Tuesday night is acceptable and either did Jose he did in a roundabout way say that Seville are better then what the English media gave them credit for.

He said they knocked out athletic Madrid out of Spanish cup over two rounds they constantly turn up and get results againtsnthe top teams in Spain so they are not walkovers.

Now these ain't excuses for what happened Tuesday night it was pathetic from the manager and players especially but going buy what I have read in here and the pool thread and match thread you would swear we got knocked out by European minnows.

What needs to happen long term is the attitude of the players need to change and Jose needs to get them players fighting for the club and him if he can't do that he should be gone.

jayo26

adox wrote: »

Haven’t drank in 17 years. :eek:

I’d love to see Sanchez have a good game tonight and get on the scoresheet.
I know he has been really poor the last few games but I thought he started quite well at Utd in his first couple of games and showed real quality.

Since then he seems to have lost is mojo completely and if anything seems to be trying too hard. There seems to be an anxiousness in his play.

I've been sober a while myself too.



Haven't drank since new years day so I'm looking forward to today haha been on a self inflicted strict fitness regime but that can go fuk off today for the day.

If love a good performance from the team today too I don't mind individual's just want to see them go out.there with a plan and execute it similar to what they did against Liverpool only last weekend.

People forget that result so quick but that was executed to almost perfection I really think the players thought they only had to turn up against Seville and maybe the manager did too.

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

People are taking the easy step and playing semantics with a guy for whom English is a second language. And as such, the word "heritage" is being leapt on, when it strikes me that it was a mix up between the words "heritage" and "inheritance". Sports Witness talks about it on Twitter a bit...

I think plenty were doing the same with Mkhitaryan's quotes about offensive football when he joined Arsenal. I personally never considered that a swipe at Mourinho or United at all. Just coming out with usual cliches that fans want to hear from new signings.