Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

S.M.B.

I was impressed with Valencia's composure last night too. Smalling, Jones, Young, Matic and even De Gea struggled to do anything meaningful with the ball under pressure from Spurs' highly organised press.

Valencia handled it really well.

Liam McPoyle

Give that young fella with the Valderama hair a shot in midfield, a marauding, Kantesque player that will constantly harass and chase the opposition. Certainly couldn't be any worse than the other options we have.

bangkok

http://www.the42.ie/mnf-jamies-carragher-jose-mourinho-away-top-6-stat-3649939-Oct2017/

I know that was october and trying to think who else has been added to that list... spurs away last night, we beat arsenal away cant think of any other, that is a very poor record with no signs of improving

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No it didn't. People were calling for more midfield signings, especially (for me) when Pereira was let go.

Pereira left to ensure he played. Not just faffed about in the U23's for a year. Some people want us to have a severly bloated squad it seems.

pjohnson

Business Cat wrote: »

Give that young fella with the Valderama hair a shot in midfield, a marauding, Kantesque player that will constantly harass and chase the opposition. Certainly couldn't be any worse than the other options we have.

Tahith Chong??? He is a striker.

bangkok

Had to laugh at this

https://twitter.com/BGinge8/status/958805611860328449?s=17

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Had to laugh at this

https://twitter.com/BGinge8/status/958805611860328449?s=17

I'm sure most Pool and City fans loved it!

Giggsy11

Business Cat wrote: »

Give that young fella with the Valderama hair a shot in midfield, a marauding, Kantesque player that will constantly harass and chase the opposition. Certainly couldn't be any worse than the other options we have.

Played his first U23 game and he is winger. Couldn't be more wrong about style either, he is not Kantesque, he is proper modern attacker.

IncognitoMan

pjohnson wrote: »

Tahith Chong??? He is a striker.

Is he not a winger?

jayo26

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Is he not a winger?

He is a winger at moment but supposedly his ideal position is going to be in central midfield but he definitely ain't a striker.

He only just made his u23 debut so I think it be another while again we see him in or around the first team.

Trigger

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Is he not a winger?

Thought he was an CM/AM myself haven’t watched much u18 this year

pjohnson

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Played his first U23 game and he is winger. Couldn't be more wrong about style either, he is not Kantesque, he is proper modern attacker.

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Is he not a winger?

Jsysus who/how am I confusing him with someone else haha.

Edi. Seems it must be Bukhart I somehow mangled together with Chong. Bukhart is Swiss and a striker but I thought he was Dutch and had arrived from Feyenoord but that was Chong.

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

Jsysus who/how am I confusing him with someone else haha.

Edi. Seems it must be Bukhart I somehow mangled together with Chong. Bukhart is Swiss and a striker but I thought he was Dutch and had arrived from Feyenoord but that was Chong.

Yeah yeah your just doing a Bangkok on it now.

MD1990

Pogba was poor.

But it is odd how Matic seems to escape criticism. He was very poor in 15/16 & has been average at Man Utd as well.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Pereira left to ensure he played. Not just faffed about in the U23's for a year. Some people want us to have a severly bloated squad it seems.

Pereira should have been ahead of Carrick and mctominay and in a proper competition with Herrera and Fellaini. He could have played in multiple positions and had plenty of time.

You might think I'm wrong, but that doesbt mean your opinion that he'd have been stuck in the u23 side right either.

Not sure if it's been posted but Fellani is out for 6-8 weeks

What I do find funny is the "neutrals" auto-fapping themselves silly to to the agenda that Jose was making him a scapegoat

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not sure if it's been posted but Fellani is out for 6-8 weeks

What I do find funny is the "neutrals" auto-fapping themselves silly to to the agenda that Jose was making him a scapegoat

Jose told him he can't play again for 8 weeks as punishment for the result.

jayo26

Hear the lads on sky saying that Dele Alli fouls were out if frustration nothing serious. How much bulsh1t can be talked from one studio.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Hear the lads on sky saying that Dele Alli fouls were out if frustration nothing serious. How much bulsh1t can be talked from one studio.

Hes english

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Hear the lads on sky saying that Dele Alli fouls were out if frustration nothing serious. How much bulsh1t can be talked from one studio.

Must be really frustrating winning 2-0.. I actually think he could ruin his career because of that side to his game.. there is a very violent element in there

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Hes english

No sh1t

Mitch Connor

Whatever about formation and set up issues last night.... I wonder what the fallout will be regarding the players themselves.

I can see a few players being benched after last night - but then our options aren't great in terms of bringing people in. Rashford could come in, Mata could come in, Shaw could come in, and maybe Rojo - but after that I don't think there are any players that Jose would particularly trust to bring in.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Must be really frustrating winning 2-0.. I actually think he could ruin his career because of that side to his game.. there is a very violent element in there

Totally agree mate he will do serious damage to someone I know they were only Niggly kicks at Sanchez but it only takes for a players stokes to be planted and a kick that goes a bit over the top.

Adamocovic

TheDoc wrote: »

Also need to address the defence in the summer. Bailly is looking incredibly unreliable fitness wise and I don't know what the story is with Lindeloff.

Jones and Smalling do this all the time, they put in weeks and weeks of clean sheets where you think they are good or good enough, then put in a ****ing horror show in a big game. Then rinse repeat, we cruise the next few weeks and think its all grand.

They are not a good enough pairing, or even players, to be holding down a CB role in a team with our aspirations. Always shudder when I see them paired together. I'd definitely be offloading Smalling anyway, absolute regression under Mourinho since Van Gaal left for him performance wise.

Thought Valencia put in a real captains performance that likely will or did go under the radar. Tried to drive the team, tried to be composed and led by example. Thought it was a great example of leadership even in adversity, that isn't banging your chest or roaring at people. Noticed it wasn't mention at all during the match which was a bit disappointing from a commentary perspective.

I agree it is probably time to move Smalling on. One thing about the Jones and Smalling partnership is that Jones is forced to play on the left channel of it. Reason being Smalling is unable to play there, while Jones can to a level. Against alright opposition he can play well there but like we saw against top teams can be exposed.

Yesterday was always going to be tough with the starting 11. Ashley Young and Sanchez on the left encouraged Spurs to exploit the right hand side when on attack. This loaded more pressure on Jones who had a mare. All three at fault but it was a combination of the three that led to it.

For me I'm not worried yet about Baillys injury record, but then again I've put Jones to the back of my mind. I think with Bailly on the left channel and Jones in the right we have a much more comfortable and organised defence. Couple Valencia and Shaw in there and I'm really liking the look of it. Can't wait to see Bailly back. I think Jose has plans to eventually phase Lindelof into the right channel.

Now, I know I'm biased, but I can understand selling Smalling but don't see the point in Jones. Jones, aside from the last game, has shown signs of improvement and has had a really good season. Whether people don't rate him as a starter can't be denied that he's a valuable squad player to have. He's versatile and showing a smarter football brain this season.

It wasn't too long ago people were praising our defence. Life for a CB is like this, you can have 18 or so good games but then when you have one horror show pitch forks come out.

I'm looking forward to Saturday, and hopefully we see a much better improvement.

StringerBell

MD1990 wrote: »

Pogba was poor.

But it is odd how Matic seems to escape criticism. He was very poor in 15/16 & has been average at Man Utd as well.

Matic looked leggy from the off last night, but it is pretty tough to be hard on him considering the job he is asked to do alone against a very good team.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Must be really frustrating winning 2-0.. I actually think he could ruin his career because of that side to his game.. there is a very violent element in there

Roy Keane was the very same. Lashed out for no reason sometimes. Just have to accept its part of the player

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Roy Keane was the very same. Lashed out for no reason sometimes. Just have to accept its part of the player

Players used to racially abused each other too that doesn't mean we accept it now!!!

You have some seriously crazy views at times ha.

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

Yeah yeah your just doing a Bangkok on it now.

If that was the case I'd just call him Willock. Hes actually back from Holland now btw and has been sent up to Scotland instead. It was a strange move in the first place tbh.

Does anyone know if we still link with Antwerp these days?

spiralism

Being honest, we're not in as bad a state as last night made us look, we had a bad day at the office and Jose got some **** wrong i think it was plain to see. There's a lot of positives about this team and it's the best we've been in a while but we're still a bit away from being able to kick on and really compete.

The main issues for me in that regard are that:

- Smalling can't hack it at this level. He's already had his best season and has regressed since LVG left. He's shaky at the best of times, a liability at the worst. Hasn't got the head for it, he makes concentration errors at the worst possible times and his judgement is shocking, i still havent forgotten him hobbling around trying to mark Harry Maguire. Jones had a bad night last night but barely put a foot wrong all season so i wont be too harsh but you'd have to wonder why we're not going back to Rojo alongside him or even giving Lindelof another run. Smalling is 28 like, on the balance of probabilities he's not going to get any better again.

- As said by everyone here, including myself, a midfield two will not cut it against the top teams, even against Arsenal they ran through us at will but DDG bailed us out. Mourinho has made this mistake at Spurs before but learned from it. We need to be playing a 3 man midfield and sacrificing an attacker in these sort of games. Herrera needs to be brought back in from the cold and a fit Fellaini is a must. Pogba's a different player when he's got proper cover in there, at Juve he had Vidal and Marchisio providing cover for him to get forward. With that in mind and with Jose saying that summer signings will be in the middle of the park, you'd have to imagine Vidal will be heavily pursued.

- Speaking of dropping attackers to reinforce the midfield, why can't Lukaku make way sometimes? He's basically undroppable regardless of form. Martial can play as the central striker as can Sanchez but all the talk is who of Lingard or Martial have to be dropped. We could always try something different and not immediately resort to who of our two most in form players needs hooked.

Julez

StringerBell wrote: »

Matic looked leggy from the off last night, but it is pretty tough to be hard on him considering the job he is asked to do alone against a very good team.

He's already played a lot of games. He definitely looks tired.

Cookiemunster

There's an interview with Pereira in todays Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/01/andreas-pereira-alex-ferguson-manchester-united?CMP=share_btn_tw

spiralism

Julez wrote: »

He's already played a lot of games. He definitely looks tired.

Jose seems to play favourites to a fault, him and Lukaku will start no matter what. Herrera could do with some games, him or Carrick could play at the weekend. Chances are it'll be the same though

jimmytwotimes 2013

bangkok wrote: »

Roy Keane was the very same. Lashed out for no reason sometimes. Just have to accept its part of the player

And very nearly ended his career because of it. Pure luck that he didn't.

Gazza another example.

Alli could easily do himself a serious, or career-ending, injury someday. He won't be able to say he wasn't given fair warning.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Players used to racially abused each other too that doesn't mean we accept it now!!!

You have some seriously crazy views at times ha.

Racially abusing someone and kicking out for no reason are totally different in fairness.

Football is a contact sport and sometimes players go over the top in tackles, lashing out etc happens in almost every game in every league all over the world and then some like deli alli do it more ofter than others

pjohnson

Considering he lost half his body weight with that illness its quite an achievement he returned to playing and became captain of West Brom and vice Captain of Stoke! He's only missed something like 2 league games since he left us.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Considering he lost half his body weight with that illness its quite an achievement he returned to playing and became captain of West Brom and vice Captain of Stoke! He's only missed something like 2 league games since he left us.

Could have done with him last night!

Minderbinder

Just saw the game there now. Spent the last half an hour admiring Spurs. I was laughing at Pool the other day bringing on Milner, Henderson and Ings when they were behind, and then we bring on Mata, Herrera and Fellaini. We have three players who seem to operate best at LWF, and still nobody effective on the right. Just signing anyone who's available instead of waiting for the right players.
Honestly don't know what the point of Mata is. I know he has made a telling contribution if you look at the numbers but I'm just sick of watching him chasing after the ball with his Phoebe from Friends running style. He offers nothing on the bench. You wouldn't bring him on to change a game and you wouldn't bring him on to see it out. If he was at City he'd probably look a lot better to be fair. But he's at the wrong club.
I was thinking maybe Pogba is Veron II, but that might be unkind to Veron who was maybe wrongly labelled a luxury player. Pogba can be brilliant but he needs calm heads around him. When this United side lose control of a game, they really lose control and there's no coming back. 
Thought Young was probably the worst player on the pitch, and that's saying a lot with the s**tshow Jones' put on. Would like to see Shaw for the rest of the season, especially in the bigger games.
But anyway Spurs were very good and it was a game they just had to win. I think we'll still get second in the league but that performance and the way we were toyed with just made me lose hope of winning anything this season. I fear at least a City treble is a foregone conclusion.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Lads look I set up the match thread and I shouldn't of and so for that reason all I can say is I blame stu_redman he told me to do it.

Look, I didn't want to use the old mind-control on you, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Well done anyway, you took one for the team. It sounds like the match-thread served to be the complete dreg-magnet that it was intended to be. Meanwhile, things remained wind-up free in here. Job done. Sorry you took a bit of shít for it in here Jayo, but go now and take your rightful place among the pantheon of greats.

Aristotle...Cleopatra...Jesus Christ...Mozart...Abraham Lincoln...Alexander the Great...Marie Curie...Gandhi...Martin Luther King...Jayo26.

adox

We can swap the personnel around all we want but the main concern for me is the lack of fight , character as has been said. The team laid down and it’s not the first time it’s happened.

Sure the formation was wrong. Sure Pogba shouldn’t have been playing in a midfield two but neither excuse the lack of effort or character from the team and Pogba.

There’s a fragility in this squad that never seems too far from the surface.

Although Jose shouldn’t get away scot free for last night I hope he ripped them all a new one after the match. They deserve it.

S.M.B.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Whatever about formation and set up issues last night.... I wonder what the fallout will be regarding the players themselves.

I can see a few players being benched after last night - but then our options aren't great in terms of bringing people in. Rashford could come in, Mata could come in, Shaw could come in, and maybe Rojo - but after that I don't think there are any players that Jose would particularly trust to bring in.

It's worrying that ~£30 million Lindelof, who Jose brought in only 9 months ago, isn't even making the bench when Baillys not available. If Pep or Klopp did this everyone would be having a right old chuckle.

pjohnson

I'm also quite suprised we havent seen Rojo-Jones paired together since Rojo's return. They worked extremely well together as a pair before.

adox

adox wrote: »

We can swap the personnel around all we want but the main concern for me is the lack of fight , character as has been said. The team laid down and it’s not the first time it’s happened.

Sure the formation was wrong. Sure Pogba shouldn’t have been playing in a midfield two but neither excuse the lack of effort or character from the team and Pogba.

There’s a fragility in this squad that never seems too far from the surface.

Although Jose shouldn’t get away scot free for last night I hope he ripped them all a new one after the match. They deserve it.

That's the reason why I'm not anywhere near 100% confident of United walking over Huddersfield this weekend.

It was the 2-0 loss against Huddersfield where one of the most evident occurrences of 'lack of character' in this United squad can be pointed out.

Granted, it was two errors from Lindelof which lead to the goals on the day, but that was the match where Herrera questioned the players' attitudes, where Jose questioned why Herrera and the guys had a poor attitude in the first place, where Jose also said something like "Yes, Victor maybe made two mistakes, but the opponent's goals were coming anyway. This is not one player's fault".

That was some disaster of a game. You'd like to think that the team learned their lesson that day and progressed from it, but I'm not sure that they did. We saw examples of it in the December run, and we certainly saw examples of it last night.

As has been said in here already, it's not that we lost that match against Spurs, it was the manner of it. And it seems that when we lose, we lose hard and bad - That Huddersfield game, never looked like getting back into it once it went to 2-0. The Chelsea defeat at the Bridge, that was our 'best' defeat I guess. City at Old Trafford, never really in it even if Lukaku got one shot on target for us at 2-1. Spurs last night, never really in it but for about 5-10 minutes after their early goal.

It seems that these players don't just get beaten or have victory undeservedly stolen from them at the death. No, they get taught a lesson or greatly humbled in most of their defeats.

The 'manner of defeat' doesn't make any difference to the points lost, but it certainly offers an insight into the team we're supporting. Too often in these defeats, that insight is frightening. Not only in defeats, but the likes of that draw at Anfield, and one or two of those draws at the end of December too.

S.M.B.

Mata was at fault for that first goal against Huddersfield. Giving the ball away then refusing to take a yellow card for the team.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the reason why I'm not anywhere near 100% confident of United walking over Huddersfield this weekend.

It was the 2-0 loss against Huddersfield where one of the most evident occurrences of 'lack of character' in this United squad can be pointed out.

Granted, it was two errors from Lindelof which lead to the goals on the day, but that was the match where Herrera questioned the players' attitudes, where Jose questioned why Herrera and the guys had a poor attitude in the first place, where Jose also said something like "Yes, Victor maybe made two mistakes, but the opponent's goals were coming anyway. This is not one player's fault".

That was some disaster of a game. You'd like to think that the team learned their lesson that day and progressed from it, but I'm not sure that they did. We saw examples of it in the December run, and we certainly saw examples of it last night.

As has been said in here already, it's not that we lost that match against Spurs, it was the manner of it. And it seems that when we lose, we lose hard and bad - That Huddersfield game, never looked like getting back into it once it went to 2-0. The Chelsea defeat at the Bridge, that was our 'best' defeat I guess. City at Old Trafford, never really in it even if Lukaku got one shot on target for us at 2-1. Spurs last night, never really in it but for about 5-10 minutes after their early goal.

It seems that these players don't just get beaten or have victory undeservedly stolen from them at the death. No, they get taught a lesson or greatly humbled in most of their defeats.

The 'manner of defeat' doesn't make any difference to the points lost, but it certainly offers an insight into the team we're supporting. Too often in these defeats, that insight is frightening. Not only in defeats, but the likes of that draw at Anfield, and one or two of those draws at the end of December too.

I think a big part of it is Mourinho's game plan and tactics in these big games. It's becoming quite obvious that we don't set out to stamp our authority on these matches. We don't set out to dominate possession and attack with a plan. It's always going to be an uphill battle for the players when we play teams that actually do approach these games with an effective gameplan, especially when we concede so early like we did yesterday and against Chelsea last season. I've seen a few people putting last night down to a "bad day at the office", but it's no coincidence that we've been schooled by every other team in the top 6 this season. It's disappointing when you can predict when this United team is going to have a bad day at the office.

That said, the players do seem to lack character. Pogba was incredibly disappointing yesterday.

Cantona's Collars

One of our loveliest fans reveals something.....

https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR/status/958772157932363776

bangkok

Pogba was crap yesterday but he is not a holding midfielder, never was, might do a job when he us 34 or 35 but not now. He is in his prime, was playing class for the last few weeks/months scoring and creating and then he is asked to do a defensive job in wembley (and wrongly he prob let the head drop)

Ninthlife

One of the things I always admired about United under Ferguson was the over lapping full backs who could whip in a decent cross and players busrting their bo**ox to sprint into the box especially on the break.

Now there is very little over lapping, Young likes to stop once he gets a certain distance into the opposition half. Valencia telegraphs his cut back and delivers poor quality crosses most of the time. There are times the ball is put into the box and maybe just Lukaku in there everyone else jogging towards the box.

When is the last time you saw a quality corner being taken? I cant really remember the last time we scored from one.we seem to put in corners at pace chest high to the near post. Smalling goes up for corners but never gets near the ball.

For all the attacking talent available sometimes it looks like players forget the very basics. Stick the ball into the area between the peno spot and 6 yard box on corners we have the height in the team to attack quality crosses.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba was crap yesterday but he is not a holding midfielder, never was, might do a job when he us 34 or 35 but not now. He is in his prime, was playing class for the last few weeks/months scoring and creating and then he is asked to do a defensive job in wembley (and wrongly he prob let the head drop)

He wasn’t asked to be a holding midfielder, he was asked to be a box to box, but shirked on his defensive duties

S.M.B.

I'd genuinely love to know what instructions he was given before and during the game.

Because either a) he was given a role and he just ignored his managers wishes or b) José was happy for him to play with 100% freedom or c) José assumed his innate discipline and intelligence would kick in and he'd do whatever needed to be done

None of those scenarios fill me with any sort of optimism going forward

bangkok

S.M.B. wrote: »

I'd genuinely love to know what instructions he was given before and during the game.

Because either a) he was given a role and he just ignored his managers wishes or b) José was happy for him to play with 100% freedom or c) José assumed his innate discipline and intelligence would kick in and he'd do whatever needed to be done

None of those scenarios fill me with any sort of optimism going forward

Or D, he just had a poor game