Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

downwesht

Thought the ref was poor throughout.Kane should have been booked constant fouls.....England poster boy gets off light.....Pogba was pathetic......Matic has lost confidence.Will be interesting what team is put out on Saturday.....I'd leave Pogba on the bench.

bangkok

downwesht wrote: »

Thought the ref was poor throughout.Kane should have been booked constant fouls.....England poster boy gets off light.....Pogba was pathetic......Matic has lost confidence.Will be interesting what team is put out on Saturday.....I'd leave Pogba on the bench.

Why would you leave pogba on the bench? Would cause much more issues than it would resolve. Matic looks leggy, would give him the day off, play carrick instead

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

He wasn’t asked to be a holding midfielder, he was asked to be a box to box, but shirked on his defensive duties

Its been a few pages since this was explained to him.

Ninthlife

Young picked up his 5th yellow last night. Does that mean he misses Saturday?

I wouldnt drop Pogba but I would be expecting a huge improvement from him and others.

Bench Lukaku and play a front 3 of Martial, Rashford and Sanchez. Let them interchange left to right to middle

Headshot

Im still sick from yesterday

Sick

bangkok

Ninthlife wrote: »

Young picked up his 5th yellow last night. Does that mean he misses Saturday?

I wouldnt drop Pogba but I would be expecting a huge improvement from him and others.

Bench Lukaku and play a front 3 of Martial, Rashford and Sanchez. Let them interchange left to right to middle

No young is ok.

Yes i would drop lukaku also.

Trigger

Ninthlife wrote: »

Young picked up his 5th yellow last night. Does that mean he misses Saturday?

I wouldnt drop Pogba but I would be expecting a huge improvement from him and others.

Bench Lukaku and play a front 3 of Martial, Rashford and Sanchez. Let them interchange left to right to middle

It’s past the cut off point for 5 yellows now

Ninthlife

bangkok wrote: »

No young is ok.

Yes i would drop lukaku also.

Was hoping Youngs absence would allow Shaw back in.

Thought Young was awful last night. The amount of space he afforded Trippier(i think) for the 2nd goal was attrocious also thought he was partly at fault in the first

Cantona's Collars

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_tackle?se=79

2nd last on the tackles list. We never seem to press and just drop back and wait for the opposition to give the ball away.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

No young is ok.

Yes i would drop lukaku also.

So you would keep pogba in the team but drop lukaku.





Ok.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

So you would keep pogba in the team but drop lukaku.





Ok.

Id give martial a few games up top. Quicker, more skill, better touch and probably the most clinical finisher at the club

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Id give martial a few games up top. Quicker, more skill, better touch and probably the most clinical finisher at the club

Also has rarely shown the ability to actually do it up front.

He's so blatantly more suited to the LW role, its crazy. Playing out wide lets him use that speed and skill to run at people.

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Also has rarely shown the ability to actually do it up front.

He's so blatantly more suited to the LW role, its crazy. Playing out wide lets him use that speed and skill to run at people.

Yep. Martial is a guy you want running at defenders or running off another player.

The Spurs game was lost in midfield.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Also has rarely shown the ability to actually do it up front.

He's so blatantly more suited to the LW role, its crazy. Playing out wide lets him use that speed and skill to run at people.

How many games has he actually played up front? Only game i remember this season was everton away and he was excellent

RobbingBandit

Time to call on our little Angel (Gomes)over the weekend, hope Shaw starts too. If we lose to Huddersfield this place will implode.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I think a big part of it is Mourinho's game plan and tactics in these big games. It's becoming quite obvious that we don't set out to stamp our authority on these matches. We don't set out to dominate possession and attack with a plan. It's always going to be an uphill battle for the players when we play teams that actually do approach these games with an effective gameplan, especially when we concede so early like we did yesterday and against Chelsea last season. I've seen a few people putting last night down to a "bad day at the office", but it's no coincidence that we've been schooled by every other team in the top 6 this season. It's disappointing when you can predict when this United team is going to have a bad day at the office.

That said, the players do seem to lack character. Pogba was incredibly disappointing yesterday.

There have definitely been times when I felt the manager sent the players out with a safety-first approach, last night wasn't one of them though. Or my point being- Even if that was the plan last night, it was hard to tell because the players were all over the place and I couldn't actually tell what our plan was. It reminded me very much of the 0-0 at Anfield in that respect.

Elsewhere...

Rio had this to say following the match on the difference between Lukaku and Kane;

Rio wrote:

The contrast between them was so evident it was unbelievable from up here. The ball going into Kane, sticking, holding centre halves off & bringing others into the game. That's a real #9. That's what you want to see a #9 do. Kane is the best striker in EPL."

bangkok

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Time to call on our little Angel (Gomes)over the weekend, hope Shaw starts too. If we lose to Huddersfield this place will implode.

Na, couldnt have picked a better side to play at home this weekend. Think it will be a hiding, 4 or 5 nil

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

Also has rarely shown the ability to actually do it up front.

He rarely plays there.

bangkok

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There have definitely been times when I felt the manager sent the players out with a safety-first approach, last night wasn't one of them though. Or my point being- Even if that was the plan last night, it was hard to tell because the players were all over the place and I couldn't actually tell what our plan was. It reminded me very much of the 0-0 at Anfield in that respect.

Elsewhere...

Rio had this to say following the match on the difference between Lukaku and Kane;

Without doubt. Its been clear a while now. Was chalk and cheese last night

DM_7

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He rarely plays there.

For good reason.

deaddonkey15

Deleted User wrote: »

There have definitely been times when I felt the manager sent the players out with a safety-first approach, last night wasn't one of them though. Or my point being- Even if that was the plan last night, it was hard to tell because the players were all over the place and I couldn't actually tell what our plan was. It reminded me very much of the 0-0 at Anfield in that respect.

Very difficult to tell what the plan was last night since we conceded so early. The lineup was certainly an attacking one, but was there an effective, attacking game plan to go with it? I have my doubts. Maybe there was, and the lack of character in the side after going a goal down just meant we couldn't execute it.

deaddonkey15

DM_7 wrote: »

For good reason.

Which is?

Ninthlife

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Very difficult to tell what the plan was last night since we conceded so early. The lineup was certainly an attacking one, but was there an effective, attacking game plan to go with it? I have my doubts. Maybe there was, and the lack of character in the side after going a goal down just meant we couldn't execute it.

At times its the lack of tempo and urgency. Not quick enough in the tackle not getting to that 2nd ball. The amount of players static last night in the final third too.

Whereas Spurs were quicker sharper etc.

Anyone else notice that United players seem to bunch up at times especially in opposition half. So instead of making runs seems players gravitate towards the ball/player in possession

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Which is?

His preformances up front have been utterly forgettable, because, as stated, His strengths don't work well as a lone striker but work brilliantly as a wide player.

DM_7

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Which is?

At a basic level, the part you cut out when partially quoting Lord TSC's post earlier.


Just look at his goals and assists this season, never mind previous seasons. He is a guy you want with some freedom to move around, face the goal. Run at defenders and make runs off other players. Leave the back to goal and occupy defenders to a guy like Lukaku.

Ninthlife

DM_7 wrote: »

At a basic level, the part you cut out when partially quoting Lord TSC's post earlier.


Just look at his goals and assists this season, never mind previous seasons. He is a guy you want with some freedom to move around, face the goal. Run at defenders and make runs off other players. Leave the back to goal and occupy defenders to a guy like Lukaku.

If I played Martial in a centre forward position i wouldnt expect him to play a 'Lukaku' role. Id expect him to run at the central defenders

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

His preformances up front have been utterly forgettable, because, as stated, His strengths don't work well as a lone striker but work brilliantly as a wide player.

Martial sanchez and rashford/lingard as a front 3 could be excellent and it also means no high balls being kicked into the striker

DM_7

Ninthlife wrote: »

If I played Martial in a centre forward position i wouldnt expect him to play a 'Lukaku' role. Id expect him to run at the central defenders

Unless it is a counter attack he is not going to get the ball to feet facing the goal.

Unless he drops deep, if he drops deep then someone else has to get ahead of him as happened v Everton away.

United don't get many counter attacks at OT, the CF won't get to drop deep too often into space to accept the ball to feet. The space is normally wide, where Martial normally plays.

Basically to get the best from him you maximise his chances to run at a defence.

Martial has (I think) two goals this season without Lukaku or Rashford at CF. One v Swansea late on (counter attack) and one from edge of the box v Everton where two midfield players go last him and he drops off with no defender able to follow.

Adamcp898

Lads, are you purposefully ignoring the fact that if you change the type of centre forward you play you'll also change the emphasis of your attacking play also? Jose isn't just going to tell Mata to put on his Big Rom suit and head up front without giving pause for how other aspects might also be changed

Ninthlife

DM_7 wrote: »

Unless it is a counter attack he is not going to get the ball to feet facing the goal.

Unless he drops deep, if he drops deep then someone else has to get ahead of him as happened v Everton away.

United don't get many counter attacks at OT, the CF won't get to drop deep too often into space to accept the ball to feet. The space is normally wide, where Martial normally plays.

Basically to get the best from him you maximise his chances to run at a defence.

Martial has (I think) two goals this season without Lukaku or Rashford at CF. One v Swansea late on (counter attack) and one from edge of the box v Everton where two midfield players go last him and he drops off with no defender able to follow.

With a front 3 of Martial Rashford and Sanchez all interchanging Id imagine if either one had to drop deep that their pace would allow quick movement of two of the 3 getting ahead.

Id like to see it tried. Im just tired of watching Lukakus poor first touch and poor success at aerial duals vs centre backs.

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

His preformances up front have been utterly forgettable, because, as stated, His strengths don't work well as a lone striker but work brilliantly as a wide player.

What performances in particular are you referring to? Last time he played up front he did quite well.

DM_7 wrote: »

At a basic level, the part you cut out when partially quoting Lord TSC's post earlier.


Just look at his goals and assists this season, never mind previous seasons. He is a guy you want with some freedom to move around, face the goal. Run at defenders and make runs off other players. Leave the back to goal and occupy defenders to a guy like Lukaku.

It seems the best argument not to play him up front then is because he's already playing well at left wing? You mentioned his goals and assists this season which are impressive,with that in mind would it not be a good idea to try playing him closer to goal since he's proven to be quite effective at actually scoring them? I'd argue his finishing is better than Lukaku's. He's quicker than Lukaku too and might actually get onto the end of one of those over the top passes we always seem to play.

We've just signed a world class left winger, we've a goalscorer in Martial who has better recent scoring form than Lukaku and who can also play up front. Seems like giving him a few games there with Sanchez on the left would be worth experimenting with in my opinion.

DM_7

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It seems the best argument not to play him up front then is because he's already playing well at left wing? You mentioned his goals and assists this season which are impressive,with that in mind would it not be a good idea to try playing him closer to goal since he's proven to be quite effective at actually scoring them? I'd argue his finishing is better than Lukaku's. He's quicker than Lukaku too and might actually get onto the end of one of those over the top passes we always seem to play.

We've just signed a world class left winger, we've a goalscorer in Martial who has better recent scoring form than Lukaku and who can also play up front. Seems like giving him a few games there with Sanchez on the left would be worth experimenting with in my opinion.

I have no problem with Martial up front when Lukaku is not available or because of a tactical decision. It doesn't make sense at home to Huddersfield to make that change. It is the type of game where Lukaku is needed most.

It is also he type of game where Martial is needed in a wide position, get him one on one with the full back or coming onto the ball around the edge of the box to go for the top corner with a shot.

There is more to CF than goals, but when focusing on goals you have to look at where they come from, in Martial's case, most come from him running at a defence after the ball is layed off to him.

bucketybuck

Every time there is a bad result people spend page after page rearranging the deck chairs.

A different formation. Play him on the other side. Player X instead of player Y. Be more solid. Be more attacking. Guy who hasn't been playing is the answer.

You could shuffle those players about all day and it would make little difference, pick whatever team you want and sooner rather than later another of those performances is going to smack you in the face.

Play Martial up front, Pogba at ten, Sanchez left and Mata right, Matic and Felliani midfield, Shaw and Valencia at full back, Jones and Bailly CB and De Gea in goals. Play that team and I guarantee there will be some great performances and then another stinker, and people will still be wondering what happened.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

His preformances up front have been utterly forgettable, because, as stated, His strengths don't work well as a lone striker but work brilliantly as a wide player.

In fairness he did show plenty of promise playing up front in his first season. He looked a natural, played brilliantly with his back to goal and always looking to run in behind.

He is getting better and better from the LW also though.

xtal191

Never even noticed this during the match

https://twitter.com/Ziggy_UNITED/status/958831881155379201

Giggsy11

Not sure if this is posted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/7umpvz/lukaku_hold_up_play/

These are the passes played to Lukaku, there is absolutely nothing Lukaku can do here.

Only 2-3 times ball was played to his feet and he did well.

Liam McPoyle

Lukaku gets a huge amount of criticism here from the same person that consistently fawns over Pogba.

Countless times against Spurs he had to resort to being back in central midfield trying to make something happen. That's happened in a number of games this season aswell.

Pogba is seemingly absolved of any criticism when he is forced to play out of his best position but the same doesn't apply to Rom.

It's myopic in the extreme and not worth debating because all you get is a constant stream of deflection.

Ninthlife

Business Cat wrote: »

Lukaku gets a huge amount of criticism here from the same person that consistently fawns over Pogba.

Countless times against Spurs he had to resort to being back in central midfield trying to make something happen. That's happened in a number of games this season aswell.

Pogba is seemingly absolved of any criticism when he is forced to play out of his best position but the same doesn't apply to Rom.

It's myopic in the extreme and not worth debating because all you get is a constant stream of deflection.

I think Lukaku is a great player but him receiving the ball 30 yards from goal with his back to it isnt utilizing his strenghts.

Lukaku getting the ball in the 20 yard box is where he would excel. Similar to Van Nistelrooy id say the majority of his goals were all scored withinthe box

bangkok

xtal191 wrote: »

Never even noticed this during the match

https://twitter.com/Ziggy_UNITED/status/958831881155379201

Handbags.

jayo26

Nalz

Business Cat wrote: »

Lukaku gets a huge amount of criticism here from the same person that consistently fawns over Pogba.

Countless times against Spurs he had to resort to being back in central midfield trying to make something happen. That's happened in a number of games this season aswell.

Pogba is seemingly absolved of any criticism when he is forced to play out of his best position but the same doesn't apply to Rom.

It's myopic in the extreme and not worth debating because all you get is a constant stream of deflection.

Excellent post. Also, myopic is an excellent word

ericzeking

Ninthlife wrote: »

I think Lukaku is a great player but him receiving the ball 30 yards from goal with his back to it isnt utilizing his strenghts.

Lukaku getting the ball in the 20 yard box is where he would excel. Similar to Van Nistelrooy id say the majority of his goals were all scored withinthe box

I think RVN only scored one goal for United from outside the box, and it was a one on one with the keeper where the keeper had advanced to near the edge of the box.... it was at Old Trafford, he picked it up a fair distance out and dribbled a fair distance which was also rare enough, I can't remember against whom it was, someone like Stoke....

Although I could be wrong.....

He was some man to find the net, it used to go in in all sorts of ways.

Edit: I just checked, I'm only half right, he did only score once from outside the box but the goal I was thinking of was inside the box against Fulham, it's actually a savage goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcOvw5sKsg

Adamocovic

ericzeking wrote: »

I think RVN only scored one goal for United from outside the box, and it was a one on one with the keeper where the keeper had advanced to near the edge of the box.... it was at Old Trafford, he picked it up a fair distance out and dribbled a fair distance which was also rare enough, I can't remember against whom it was, someone like Stoke....

Although I could be wrong.....

He was some man to find the net, it used to go in in all sorts of ways.

He would have struggled to have tucked one in as beautiful as Jones did the other night.

StringerBell

The goal he dribbled in from the half way line was v Fulham I am pretty sure and it was inside the box.

He did score one outside the box but I can't for the life of me think of who it was against.

ericzeking

StringerBell wrote: »

The goal he dribbled in from the half way line was v Fulham I am pretty sure and it was inside the box.

He did score one outside the box but I can't for the life of me think of who it was against.

Snap...just checked...:D

ericzeking

StringerBell wrote: »

The goal he dribbled in from the half way line was v Fulham I am pretty sure and it was inside the box.

He did score one outside the box but I can't for the life of me think of who it was against.

I also just checked the goal he did score from outside the box vs. Charlton....it wasn't a great shot, possible deflection and shoddy goalkeeping....himself and Rooney combined for a class goal in the same game though.

duffman13

duffman13 wrote:

Next top 6 game id like to see us line out with"
Lukaku
Martial - Pogba - Sanchez
Matic - Herrera

Proper free up Pogba to be free while giving Matic a bit of extra support. Pogba in a real three, I genuinely think we will get even more out of him

I said this two weeks ago and still think its our best option for a top 6 game either Carrick or Herrera to partner Matic. I feel for Matic, looks very very leggy and could do with a break. Sanchez has proved he can play on the right so I'd rather him out there than Martial who is so much more dangerous on the left than he is on the right.

It was exciting line up on Wednesday that just never got going at all.

ericzeking

duffman13 wrote: »

I said this two weeks ago and still think its our best option for a top 6 game either Carrick or Herrera to partner Matic. I feel for Matic, looks very very leggy and could do with a break. Sanchez has proved he can play on the right so I'd rather him out there than Martial who is so much more dangerous on the left than he is on the right.

It was exciting line up on Wednesday that just never got going at all.

I think there are a plethora of really class looking line ups you can put out on the pitch and they would be exciting but it means little if the mentality isn't correct.

Personally, I think that mentality gap is coming from the managers innate conservatism....and yes I do know we've scored sh!tloads of goals this season (mostly against the canon fodder in the early part of the season).

I think the reinclusion of Young for Shaw is telling, it says to me, that he is willing to load up the front edge of the pitch with all the big name attacking players he has bought but he will create a solid base with a conservative selection behind....this creates a disconnect from back to front...either subconsciously or otherwise, Young will know that his passage into the team is by being conservative.
There are subtle messages sent to the players and I think they multiply and manifest themselves in the big games where the margins are very small.

The idea is to have a solid back four with Matic in front with the rest doing as they like, in theory it should be enough...but it creates a lack of fluidity in the team.

As regards being caught on the hop 10 seconds in the other night, if you have a defence going out with a conservative outlook, a fear of conceding, then there will be a nervousness which possibly is more easily exploited before they have a chance to feel their way into the game...basically, Jones went, 'Oh sh!t' when he saw he was in a match with Kane for a lumped ball straight off the bat....

ericzeking

duffman13 wrote: »

I said this two weeks ago and still think its our best option for a top 6 game either Carrick or Herrera to partner Matic. I feel for Matic, looks very very leggy and could do with a break. Sanchez has proved he can play on the right so I'd rather him out there than Martial who is so much more dangerous on the left than he is on the right.

It was exciting line up on Wednesday that just never got going at all.

I'd play Carrick or Blind alongside Matic, with Pogba in front and I'd have Shaw and Valencia bombing forward.

On paper, more defensive players, but I think it would give us a better chance of getting on the ball and bringing it forward in a more structured manner.

duffman13

ericzeking wrote: »

I think there are a plethora of really class looking line ups you can put out on the pitch and they would be exciting but it means little if the mentality isn't correct.

Personally, I think that mentality gap is coming from the managers innate conservatism....and yes I do know we've scored sh!tloads of goals this season (mostly against the canon fodder in the early part of the season).

I think the reinclusion of Young for Shaw is telling, it says to me, that he is willing to load up the front edge of the pitch with all the big name attacking players he has bought but he will create a solid base with a conservative selection behind....this creates a disconnect from back to front...either subconsciously or otherwise, Young will know that his passage into the team is by being conservative.
There are subtle messages sent to the players and I think they multiply and manifest themselves in the big games where the margins are very small.

The idea is to have a solid back four with Matic in front with the rest doing as they like, in theory it should be enough...but it creates a lack of fluidity in the team.

As regards being caught on the hop 10 seconds in the other night, if you have a defence going out with a conservative outlook, a fear of conceding, then there will be a nervousness which possibly is more easily exploited before they have a chance to feel their way into the game...basically, Jones went, 'Oh sh!t' when he saw he was in a match with Kane for a lumped ball straight off the bat....

No disagreement with the mentality issue however a solid base is required for bigger games. Matic as a single defensively minded midfielder really puts the defence under pressure particularly when the opposition overload the midfield. Pogba doesn't have to discipline to sit in beside and neither should we be making him do it either.

Over the years under Fergie in away games we may have played 2 strikers at times or attacking line ups but we always had two defensive minded midfielders and usually a wide man like Park who'd get through tonnes of work. The mere fact that Trippier got so much space in that game makes me look at Mourinho aswell as the team. Matic was poor but was left awfully isolated.

The other issue which I mentioned during the game is the lack of a left footer between Jones(LCB), Young and Martial/Sanchez all playing on a left sided position. Everytime we got the ball on that side we were cutting in, which meant dembele or whoever from midfield was coming across to help Trippier had an easy night.

Shaw overlapping would have stretched the game and given Spurs more to think about. It was a shocking performance but we made it an easy night for spurs tactically.