Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

Rachel Riley fans will like this!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-02-01/there-was-another-amazingly-rude-moment-on-countdown/

duffman13

ericzeking wrote: »

I'd play Carrick or Blind alongside Matic, with Pogba in front and I'd have Shaw and Valencia bombing forward.

On paper, more defensive players, but I think it would give us a better chance of getting on the ball and bringing it forward in a more structured manner.

I'd agree, in bigger games Carrick tended to drop in and cover at cb when one of the full backs bombed forward. Also Matic in the early part if the season was getting higher up the pitch. Hopefully Carrick is over the worst of it and is available for selection till the end of the season.

Trigger

zorro2566 wrote: »

Rachel Riley fans will like this!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-02-01/there-was-another-amazingly-rude-moment-on-countdown/

Well at least the First letter of your name is the same as Zerks

bucketybuck

Its worth pointing out that yet again, our poor, isolated 2 man midfield was overrun by opposition that were also playing 2 in midfield.

Spurs had Dier and Dembele in midfield, with Erikson, Alli and Son ahead of them. When City made us look like chumps they just had Fernandinho in there, helped out by noted defenders David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne.

Matic and Pogba aren't getting overrun because they are outnumbered, because teams are playing 3 midfielders and they can't compete. They are getting overrun because one of them has his head up his arse and won't do his job.

Why can other teams have two in midfield supported by the players ahead of them of them but our expensive lot can't cope at all?

Cantona's Collars

A couple of papers saying we are confident of getting Umtiti in the Summer.
Also saying Fellaini could be out for 2 months.

Roma couldn't afford Blind. It's nice to see we are continuing the trend of not giving players away.

DAILY EXPRESS:

Jose Mourinho was furious with Anthony Martial's performance in Manchester United's 2-0 defeat at Tottenham.

Lord TSC

Am I remembering right that there was talks of a 65m or so release clause for Umtiti?

hufpc8w3adnk65

Lord TSC wrote: »

Am I remembering right that there was talks of a 65m or so release clause for Umtiti?

Didn’t they just buy him?

Lord TSC

MrMac84 wrote: »

Didn’t they just buy him?

Summer of 2016.

Quick google says he's has a release clause round 60m, so could be an offer of a massive wage thrown at him to tempt him.

Lord TSC

Mind, I'm also reading he apparently had a very good game last night so there could be an element of "Player who had good game linked with move to big English club" about it...

StringerBell

While I wanted Shaw to play, and would have picked him myself. I can completely understand why Jose went with Young. It is not an outrageous selection by any means, the game was lost in midfield and I doubt Shaw would have done much to help get a foothold there with the huge gaps.

He would have just been a target for ire as Young is now about being dragged infield, covering for his centre back, who has stepped up to try to cover for a gaping hole left by one of our central midfielders.

Spurs movement of their front four caused havoc because there was always space for them to drift into which caused defenders to be dragged out of position, because the midfield was not doing its job.

Substitute who want in the back four and I don't think the result would be any different.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

Am I remembering right that there was talks of a 65m or so release clause for Umtiti?

Always felt he was an unusual signing for Barca, a very un Barca like player. No reason for them to let him go but nothing would surprise me.

If Bailly can't get his fitness issues sorted he is one to look at alright.

zorro2566

zorro2566 wrote: »

Rachel Riley fans will like this!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-02-01/there-was-another-amazingly-rude-moment-on-countdown/

This response to the tweet :pac:

https://twitter.com/TmLFC1988/status/958772434194321414

yourdeadwright

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

A couple of papers saying we are confident of getting Umtiti in the Summer.
Also saying Fellaini could be out for 2 months.

Roma couldn't afford Blind. It's nice to see we are continuing the trend of not giving players away.

DAILY EXPRESS:

Jose Mourinho was furious with Anthony Martial's performance in Manchester United's 2-0 defeat at Tottenham.

That last bit makes no sense , Jose fuming with his performance but he leaves him on for the full 90 minutes ? whats that say about his own management skill, Jesus that number 11 is having a stinker why not take him off then ?

xtal191

Next season pre match shirt

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That last bit makes no sense , Jose fuming with his performance but he leaves him on for the full 90 minutes ? whats that say about his own management skill, Jesus that number 11 is having a stinker why not take him off then ?

If it is true, he was going to take him off for rashford but then fellaini got injured so he brought on herrera instead.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

If it is true, he was going to take him off for rashford but then fellaini got injured so he brought on herrera instead.

Yeah I remember seen rashford ready to come on but that is the usual this season.

We have a habit of blaming individual players in here but sometimes it's the entire bloody lot of them together that's the fault.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Yeah I remember seen rashford ready to come on but that is the usual this season.

We have a habit of blaming individual players in here but sometimes it's the entire bloody lot of them together that's the fault.

100%. The whole team as a unit was awful, attacked poorly together, defended poorly together and we happened to play a spurs side that were well up for it and would have beaten most sides in europe the way they played

ElChe32

Expecting a big response tomorrow against Huddersfield - that ****show on Wednesday still annoying the head of me today.

Heading over in the morning for the first time in a few years and I'm giddy as a kid on Christmas eve.

I'll be available to sign your gifs before and after the game. 20€ a pop.

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

100%. The whole team as a unit was awful, attacked poorly together, defended poorly together and we happened to play a spurs side that were well up for it and would have beaten most sides in europe the way they played

Speaking of Europe, I worry that this mentality in big PL games will continue.

We won't catch City, but Top 4 is nearly sewn up now. I fear there's players who will thus take the mentality of "What else is there to play for" in the league.

Hopefully there focus will be tighter in the CL though. I'm hoping that the fact that trophy is still to play for, no matter how large a task it is, will focus them and demand better performances.

Best of luck Elche32
Enjoy

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that yet again, our poor, isolated 2 man midfield was overrun by opposition that were also playing 2 in midfield.

Spurs had Dier and Dembele in midfield, with Erikson, Alli and Son ahead of them. When City made us look like chumps they just had Fernandinho in there, helped out by noted defenders David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne.

Matic and Pogba aren't getting overrun because they are outnumbered, because teams are playing 3 midfielders and they can't compete. They are getting overrun because one of them has his head up his arse and won't do his job.

Why can other teams have two in midfield supported by the players ahead of them of them but our expensive lot can't cope at all?

Spurs do flood midfield though. High defensive line, 3 forwards capable of playing in midfield positions. They did overrun United's two in there.

One of the reasons that happened was the early goal. United were planning on sitting back to set up a counter attack but that died 12 seconds into the match.

You are right about Pogba's individual failing there. It is not a new thing either, we see it even in home games like Stoke.

United's strongest midfield looks to be Matic, Herrera and Pogba but with Pogba playing like De Bruyne or Dele, not Dembele.

Adamcp898

It's the balance and the entirety of the team that was the issue, not individuals. Yes, some as noted had worse games than others put swapping those players specifically for another without changing anything else wouldn't have changed the outcome imo. Can't say it enough, Spurs played to our weaknesses and exploited them all night long and made us look worse than City did imo. The constant pressing and isolation of players in possession they knew couldn't cope and matching themselves up in situations to make them favourite to win first and second balls. It was humbling and the only take away is that we can't set ourselves up like that again against teams like Spurs, City, Pool that will press like that.

S.M.B.

DM_7 wrote: »

Spurs do flood midfield though. High defensive line, 3 forwards capable of playing in midfield positions. They did overrun United's two in there.

One of the reasons that happened was the early goal. United were planning on sitting back to set up a counter attack but that died 12 seconds into the match.

You are right about Pogba's individual failing there. It is not a new thing either, we see it even in home games like Stoke.

United's strongest midfield looks to be Matic, Herrera and Pogba but with Pogba playing like De Bruyne or Dele, not Dembele.

How do you know they were planning on doing this?

Also, I don't really understand why a game plan should change dramatically after conceding an early goal. I can understand players might feel deflated and shell shocked but they still had 90 minutes to turn the game around. If the initial game plan is a winning game plan then it should be enough for us to at least get a goal and come away with a point and possibly more.

Lord TSC

S.M.B. wrote: »

How do you know they were planning on doing this?

Its what we've done with every away game against the top 6 teams this season.

Jayop

Had to hide under a rock for a few days after that **** show. ****ing disaster and I did say before the game that while I was excited by the line up it was always possible it would go pear shaped and christ but it did and then some. Was genuinely fuming by that more than any other game for a long long time. Pathetic was all it was.

Anyway that's my venting done. Can we never talk of that again.

S.M.B.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Its what we've done with every away game against the top 6 teams this season.

We didn't sit back at Arsenal. And we had two highly disciplined midfielders at Anfield.

When I saw that line up I didn't think the plan was to sit back and counter.

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That last bit makes no sense , Jose fuming with his performance but he leaves him on for the full 90 minutes ? whats that say about his own management skill, Jesus that number 11 is having a stinker why not take him off then ?

Rashford was coming on after fellaini, then fellaini went off injured.

Andrew Beef

Greetings (first post!).

My sense is that Wednesday was just a really bad night at the office.

I was really looking forward to it and thought that Wembley would be a leveller but we were awful.

Lukaku is doing well at the moment I reckon, working tirelessly etc.

But my overriding view is that Jose is 100% the right man for the job and has had a tougher time of it than we think with rebuilding after the Moyes/Van Gaal debacle.

jayo26

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Greetings (first post!).

My sense is that Wednesday was just a really bad night at the office.

I was really looking forward to it and thought that Wembley would be a leveller but we were awful.

Lukaku is doing well at the moment I reckon, working tirelessly etc.

But my overriding view is that Jose is 100% the right man for the job and has had a tougher time of it than we think with rebuilding after the Moyes/Van Gaal debacle.

Welcome and enjoy your stay..........

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that yet again, our poor, isolated 2 man midfield was overrun by opposition that were also playing 2 in midfield.

Spurs had Dier and Dembele in midfield, with Erikson, Alli and Son ahead of them. When City made us look like chumps they just had Fernandinho in there, helped out by noted defenders David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne.

Matic and Pogba aren't getting overrun because they are outnumbered, because teams are playing 3 midfielders and they can't compete. They are getting overrun because one of them has his head up his arse and won't do his job.

Why can other teams have two in midfield supported by the players ahead of them of them but our expensive lot can't cope at all?

As an advocate of the Holy Midfield Trinity and someone who thinks that it will eventually improve our attacking play, I do agree with your points above. Whatever about us not being able to dominate and control games with a midfield 2, we really should not be as overrun as we are in most games. Especially when the opposition aren't playing a midfield 3 themselves.

If the team boasts an attacking line-up of Alexis, Martial, Lingard and Lukaku, then we definitely need Pogba to maintain his discipline and his deeper position.

I know that no player in this team should be free from criticism, but for me Nemanja Matic is very close to that. He is being overworked in the current set-up. I'm no sports scientist, but surely this is not good for the player's longevity. Whatever about United's results and CM woes, from an individual point of view this can't be good for Matic.

Whether it's in a midfield 2 or 3, I think it comes back to the same point - Pogba is not being played in his strongest position and it can be a detriment to the team. If we employ a 3, yes it is in the hopes of strengthening the midfield but just as importantly, it's to allow Pogba to play a more advanced role. One more suited to his strengths.

If we continue with the midfield 2 featuring Pogba, we either have to continue looking at the same void in the middle, or the team will need Pogba to adapt a more defensive game. That, I think, would be 1) A complete waste of Pogba's talents, and 2) Too late at this stage in his career/development. Even if it's not too late, it's a major waste of his talents.

Of course we can't really tell from 7 seconds of footage on the touchline in the heat of battle, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some general confusion and/or friction between Pogba and Jose over the former's role in the team. Jose clearly wasn't happy with Pogba's positioning against Spurs, that's what that video from the touchline seems to be about, and he clearly wasn't happy with Pogba's performance hooking him on 70 minutes. The fact that Jose replaced him with Fellaini then Herrera, two CMs, shows that Jose wasn't trying to change things up and put on more attackers, he just wanted the players to do the job he put them out there to do in the first place.

Whether Pogba deliberately went 'rogue' against Spurs or not, the result is still concerning. Our discipline in midfield is barely there, and the bit that is there is held together by an increasingly bollixed-looking Matic.

Since Fellaini came in 4+ years ago, there must have been about £180m-200m spent on midfielders. The fact that we're still looking at a CM void in many games in 2017/18 is quite frustrating.

pjohnson

I think we can stop calling it a midfield two. Its just midfield Matic with no help.

clubberlang12

If wingers can adapt to play as full backs, and midfielders can fill it at centre half to decent effect then there is absolutely no reason Pogba can't play a more defensive role in a two man midfield the odd time when asked. The reason he can't is that he lacks discipline. Whether that comes from a sense of self-importance or innocent naivety I'm not sure at this point.

bangkok

clubberlang12 wrote: »

If wingers can adapt to play as full backs, and midfielders can fill it at centre half to decent effect then there is absolutely no reason Pogba can't play a more defensive role in a two man midfield the odd time when asked. The reason he can't is that he lacks discipline. Whether that comes from a sense of self-importance or innocent naivety I'm not sure at this point.

Or did you ever think he isnt good enough to play a defensive role??

Can you ever imagine zidane being asked to play a defensive role when he was in his prime..

Robson99

Deleted User wrote: »

I know that no player in this team should be free from criticism, but for me Nemanja Matic is very close to that. He is being overworked in the current set-up.

Whether it's in a midfield 2 or 3, I think it comes back to the same point - Pogba is not being played in his strongest position and it can be a detriment to the team.

If we continue with the midfield 2 featuring Pogba, we either have to continue looking at the same void in the middle, or the team will need Pogba to adapt a more defensive game. That, I think, would be 1) A complete waste of Pogba's talents, and 2) Too late at this stage in his career/development. Even if it's not too late, it's a major waste of his talents.

Whether Pogba deliberately went 'rogue' against Spurs or not, the result is still concerning. Our discipline in midfield is barely there, and the bit that is there is held together by an increasingly bollixed-looking Matic.
.

I agree with he above points. The shambles that was on show at Wembley whether night was fully on Mourinhos shoulders. Team selection wrong. Middle of the park completely non existent. No attacking structure. Wrong substitutions -Mata WTF. Just very poor from our manager.
Surely to **** this 'special one' can see that to get the best out of Pogba you need to let him concentrate on attacking. IMO there is no place in the team for Lingard and Pogba. Its one or the other. Play 3 in the middle of the park with Pogba the furthest forward. Matic is a good player but not a world beater. He looks knackered since xmas and its easy to see why.
Lukaku has been poor last 5 or 6 games and done nothing last Wednesday. Bench him for a while. As Rio pointed out the difference between him and Kane is major.
With an attacking 3 of Rashford Martial and Sanchez we might just start to play better football as well. The big CF route to goal is not working against the better teams.
BTW Pogba done manager or team no favours either by not defending and was rightly hauled off irrespective of his best position

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Or did you ever think he isnt good enough to play a defensive role??

Ditch the "defensive" crap, he isn't being asked to play corner back.

Again, the likes of David Silva is able to contribute effectively to the midfield without having to choose between being an attacker and being a defender, why does Pogba struggle so much that it frequently leaves the team a complete mess?

Not to mention, if Pogba doesn't want to play in midfield, if he just wants to float about wherever the hell he wants without any grafting duties then I'm sorry, he would need to have a hell of a lot more goals and assists to justify it.

clubberlang12

bangkok wrote: »

Or did you ever think he isnt good enough to play a defensive role??

Can you ever imagine zidane being asked to play a defensive role when he was in his prime..

It's not brain surgery he is been asked to perform. He's not been asked to sit in front of the back 4 and not venture forward. He's simply being asked to be more aware of assisting the team defensively when needed. And he's not been asked to play it week in, week out. He has the attributes to play more defensively when he needs to. As alluded to.........many other players have filled in in other roles when asked and done a more than decent job.

Put it this way............what do you think restricts him from performing more defensive duties every now and again when we need him? Lack of strength? Athleticism? Reading of the game? Dier and Dembele performed more than adequately as a pairing against us.....and had the ability to venture forward.

And please don't come out with something like "you don't buy a Ferrari and drive it like a Fiat"!!!

Lord TSC

We on tv tomorrow?

jayo26

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ditch the "defensive" crap, he isn't being asked to play corner back.

Again, the likes of David Silva is able to contribute effectively to the midfield without having to choose between being an attacker and being a defender, why does Pogba struggle so much that it frequently leaves the team a complete mess?

Not to mention, if Pogba doesn't want to play in midfield, if he just wants to float about wherever the hell he wants without any grafting duties then I'm sorry, he would need to have a hell of a lot more goals and assists to justify it.

"Paul Pogba now has the highest assists per 90 (0.67) in Europe's top 5 Leagues this season for players with more than 10 appearances"

bangkok

clubberlang12 wrote: »

It's not brain surgery he is been asked to perform. He's not been asked to sit in front of the back 4 and not venture forward. He's simply being asked to be more aware of assisting the team defensively when needed. And he's not been asked to play it week in, week out. He has the attributes to play more defensively when he needs to. As alluded to.........many other players have filled in in other roles when asked and done a more than decent job.

Put it this way............what do you think restricts him from performing more defensive duties every now and again when we need him? Lack of strength? Athleticism? Reading of the game? Dier and Dembele performed more than adequately as a pairing against us.....and had the ability to venture forward.

And please don't come out with something like "you don't buy a Ferrari and drive it like a Fiat"!!!

no1..dier and dembele are 2 defensive midfielders by trade, pogba is not.

no2.. lingard was part of the midfield 3 as well and didnt do much defensive work

no3.. sanchez left the entire left side allowing trippier to cause us multiple problems down the right

no4... the whole team was a shambles

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

"Paul Pogba now has the highest assists per 90 (0.67) in Europe's top 5 Leagues this season for players with more than 10 appearances"

Paul Pogba has 3 goals this season. Do I need to spell this out for you in crayon or can you grasp what the actual point being made was?

Please say you get it, I detest having to explain simple **** to you.

clubberlang12

bangkok wrote: »

no1..dier and dembele are 2 defensive midfielders by trade, pogba is not.

no2.. lingard was part of the midfield 3 as well and didnt do much defensive work

no3.. sanchez left the entire left side allowing trippier to cause us multiple problems down the right

no4... the whole team was a shambles

1. Dembele is deeper lying playmaker, even a box to box player, he's not the defensive midfielder you are trying to portray him as. Funnily enough he's actually adapted his game to play deeper when needed!!!

No. 2 & 3. How do you know they were not playing exactly as Mourinho instructed them to do?

No. 4 That has absolutely no relevance to Pogba's lack of defensive duties. In fact....It should have increased the need for him to do more.

None of which actually answers my question as to why you don't think Pogba can play a more disciplined, defensive role sometimes. So please........do inform me.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

no1..dier and dembele are 2 defensive midfielders by trade, pogba is not.

no2.. lingard was part of the midfield 3 as well and didnt do much defensive work

no3.. sanchez left the entire left side allowing trippier to cause us multiple problems down the right

no4... the whole team was a shambles

If you think Dembele is a defensive midfielder you dont understand football in the slightest.

bangkok

clubberlang12 wrote: »

1. Dembele is deeper lying playmaker, even a box to box player, he's not the defensive midfielder you are trying to portray him as. Funnily enough he's actually adapted his game to play deeper when needed!!!

No. 2 & 3. How do you know they were playing exactly as Mourinho instructed them to do?

No. 4 That has absolutely no relevance to Pogba's lack of defensive duties. In fact....It should have increased the need for him to do more.

None of which actually answers my question as to why you don't think Pogba can play a more disciplined, defensive role sometimes. So please........do inform me.

because i dont think he has the tactical awareness or experience to play there.

its actually a bit funny that some people here lose the rag when souness said all of this about his midfield abilities in a defensive role and now thats what everyone is giving out about :pac:

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

If you think Dembele is a defensive midfielder you dont understand football in the slightest.

1 goal in 2 seasons, hes not the best attacker then

no goals this season

clubberlang12

bangkok wrote: »

1 goal in 2 seasons, hes not the best attacker then

Would you say the same about Iniesta?????

clubberlang12

bangkok wrote: »

because i dont think he has the tactical awareness or experience to play there.

its actually a bit funny that some people here lose the rag when souness said all of this about his midfield abilities in a defensive role and now thats what everyone is giving out about :pac:

See that wasn't that hard. While i disagree with it, i respect that that is what you think. Pogba has over 170 senior appearance in Serie A and the Premiership. He has 49 caps for France. I personally don't agree that he hasn't enough experience at this stage to be able to fulfill tactical instructions every once in a while.

Souness was saying these were things he needs to change in his game to be a better player. Most of us are asking why can't he do it the odd time. Not saying he needs to change the player he is.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

"Paul Pogba now has the highest assists per 90 (0.67) in Europe's top 5 Leagues this season for players with more than 10 appearances"

Rare picture of Bangkok moving the goalposts

Trigger

I’ll just leave this here, a reply to Bangkok that got ignored as usual and he’s now back spouting the same stuff

astradave wrote: »

He wasn’t asked to be a holding midfielder, he was asked to be a box to box, but shirked on his defensive duties

DM_7

clubberlang12 wrote: »

See that wasn't that hard. While i disagree with it, i respect that that is what you think. Pogba has over 170 senior appearance in Serie A and the Premiership. He has 49 caps for France. I personally don't agree that he hasn't enough experience at this stage to be able to fulfill tactical instructions every once in a while.

Yes. Herrera, despite his limitations will follow the instructions given and play whatever role asked.

While Pogba may not be at his very best as an individual with the instructions we think he was given v Spurs, it might be the best use of him on the day. Well, if he could actually be bothered or capable enough to focus and adapt to what the team needs.

I expect Jose will be after at least 2 new midfield players in the summer.