Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

duffman13

jayo26 wrote: »

I think he means the other two but it wouldn't be far off wrong with sir Alex either.

History shows Fergie didn't need midfielders just throw on all the strikers for the last 10 mins

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Is that suppose to be some sort of dig at fergie?

In fairness every Luke Shaw on the streets know that SAF neglected the midfield for years

jayo26

duffman13 wrote: »

History shows Fergie didn't need midfielders just throw on all the strikers for the last 10 mins

That's true constant swashbuckling football.

#theunitedway

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

In fairness every Luke Shaw on the streets know that SAF neglected the midfield for years

I dont think so. We always had class midfielders from the time of robson, ince, keane, scholes, veron hargreaves anderson (early years) carrick fletcher. Signed other midfielder that didnt work out kleberson djemba djemba miller etc and tried to sign xavi and guardiola at one stage but deals didnt happen in the end

yabadabado

Adamocovic wrote: »

Don't think he'd be allowed have one in that hotel.

Definitely not. Its in the T&C of all Premier Inn's.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

I dont think so. We always had class midfielders from the time of robson, ince, keane, scholes, veron hargreaves anderson (early years) carrick fletcher. Signed other midfielder that didnt work out kleberson djemba djemba miller etc and tried to sign xavi and guardiola at one stage but deals didnt happen in the end

There was a stat going around about sir alex last few years in charge and the last first team midfielder he bought was someone like Anderson or something.

I don't want to get in an arguments about what he did in the 99s or mid 00s but it is well known by everyone that sir Alex did not address problems in midfield when he should of near the end of his years.

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

What makes me happy is having a manager who addresses weaknesses in the side! After years of shouting at the tv that we needed midfielders, we’ve signed Pogba and Matic in the space of a year. I’ll say again; I love that Jose Mourinho is our manager!!!

Is that suppose to be some sort of dig at fergie?

Partially. It’s primarily a dig at Louis Van Gaal and David Moyes, but Fergie in his final couple of years wasn’t blameless either. Our midfield was completely neglected for number of years. Jose’s only been there a season and a half and he’s already dealt in Pogba and Matic, for which he deserves a lot of credit.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

I dont think so. We always had class midfielders from the time of robson, ince, keane, scholes, veron hargreaves anderson (early years) carrick fletcher. Signed other midfielder that didnt work out kleberson djemba djemba miller etc and tried to sign xavi and guardiola at one stage but deals didnt happen in the end

We definitely did have some class midfielders through the years but he also left the midfield short of quality options for years. It’s been discussed plenty of times down through the years. It really showed when teams started playing the 4231 or three man midfields and we would be over run in the middle. I do think that is one of the reasons that we didn’t win another European cup or 2.. we had the defence and firepower just lacked the quality in the middle of the pitch..

RobbingBandit

Fergie loved wingers, kanchelskis, poborsky,giggs, even Nani finding great success out on the wing.

Kerrydude1981

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Fergie loved wingers, kanchelskis, poborsky,giggs, even Nani finding great success out on the wing.

Dont forget Jesper Blomqvist

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

There was a stat going around about sir alex last few years in charge and the last first team midfielder he bought was someone like Anderson or something.

I don't want to get in an arguments about what he did in the 99s or mid 00s but it is well known by everyone that sir Alex did not address problems in midfield when he should of near the end of his years.

My point is though it wasnt neglected. Carrick was probably the best midfielder in england. Fletcher was a great player, scholes still bossing games. Cleverly was meant to be the next big thing coming through

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Partially. It’s primarily a dig at Louis Van Gaal and David Moyes, but Fergie in his final couple of years wasn’t blameless either. Our midfield was completely neglected for number of years. Jose’s only been there a season and a half and he’s already dealt in Pogba and Matic, for which he deserves a lot of credit.

Van gaal signed herrera, schneiderlain and sweignsteiger. Everyone here was delighted with them including me. Didnt work out for 2 of them

bangkok

'Herrera denies match-fixing involvement'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11240916

Oh oh

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

'Herrera denies match-fixing involvement'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11240916

Oh oh

That’s going on years in fairness.. it has been widely known..

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

That’s going on years in fairness.. it has been widely known..

Yep but they must have gotten a break through.

bucketybuck

Sweet jesus. Our midfield was a problem for years and everybody ****ing knows it. Turning around in 2018 and pretending it wasn't is basically trolling.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Yep but they must have gotten a break through.

The Sky Sports article gives absolutely nothing though so how are you coming to that conclusion

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

The Sky Sports article gives absolutely nothing though so how are you coming to that conclusion

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/manchester-uniteds-ander-herrera-set-for-court-appearance-in-matchfixing-scandal-36580388.html

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/manchester-uniteds-ander-herrera-set-for-court-appearance-in-matchfixing-scandal-36580388.html

So the case was shelved and Deportivo asked for it to be investigated again, the justice department says we will, and has passed it down to investigators again. That’s the twist.. they haven’t found anything yet.. it’s nothing new at the mo tbh

It was still an open investigation

Now that’s not to say that they wont find anything so if they do in future keep your I told you so’s to yourself..

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Van gaal signed herrera, schneiderlain and sweignsteiger. Everyone here was delighted with them including me. Didnt work out for 2 of them

Actually Herrera and Shaw were club targets before LVG joined. They were signed when he was manager but not because he identified them.

United actually tried to sign Herrera when Moyes was manager. It’s easy to forget that all signings are not down to a manager deciding what players he wants.

IamtheWalrus

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Dont forget Jesper Blomqvist

Jordi would like a word

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

My point is though it wasnt neglected. Carrick was probably the best midfielder in england. Fletcher was a great player, scholes still bossing games. Cleverly was meant to be the next big thing coming through

It was neglected who was the last really top class midfielder fergie signed and not a potential class midfielder? I'd hazard a guess and say it was Carrick.

Scholes should of been retired 2 year before fergie finished up but he brought him back we needed a world class replacement then.

Fletcher was good yes but cleverly was never anywhere near the required standard apart from about 2 months or so at the start of a season.

It's testament to fergie that we won what we did with the midfield but we were really weak in his last season we scraped countless wins by one goal margin.

Giggsy11

jayo26 wrote: »

It was neglected who was the last really top class midfielder fergie signed and not a potential class midfielder? I'd hazard a guess and say it was Carrick.

Scholes should of been retired 2 year before fergie finished up but he brought him back we needed a world class replacement then.

Fletcher was good yes but cleverly was never anywhere near the required standard apart from about 2 months or so at the start of a season.

It's testament to fergie that we won what we did with the midfield but we were really weak in his last season we scraped countless wins by one goal margin.

There was no doubt SAF ignored the midfield position but I always felt he thought Pogba and Morrison would take that position. Then Cleverley had very good season at Watford which gave him one more reason not to buy midfielders as at that time we had 3 young CMs, Cleverley who had very good season and scored around 15 goals in championship, Pogba and Morrison.

Everything went tits up when Pogba left, Morrison couldn't stop being an idiot.

Also apart from this, he wasn't ruthless and counted on Anderson to come good. Well that's Fergie for you, he is loyal to players and no wonder even average ones plays good and wins him trophies.

Last class midfielder SAF signed was Hargreaves btw.

Adamcp898

Christ alive lads we can't suddenly turn around now and pretend we always had class central midfielders given the years spent here complaining about having none. Fergie signed Carrick and that was it. The problem was then ignored for the better part of a decade and who knows, maybe if we hadn't we could've challenged for a few more European Cups. He signed a sick-note in Hargreaves who was injury prone before he even came to United and then blamed us, instead of a xmas present he asked Scholes to come out of retirement, and tried to have Anderson play a role he was never comfortable in. There was a hodge podge mix in there for years including a stint for Rafael one particularly injury blighted period. We still won a lot and it's only testament to how good a manager he was but to turn around now and decide we never had a problem there is insane.

pjohnson

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Dont forget Jesper Blomqvist

Or

adox

bangkok wrote: »

'Herrera denies match-fixing involvement'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11240916

Oh oh

To be fair hes looked like hes doing his best to throw games for us this season. :pac:

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/MENCKelly/status/961591778871861248

Key points of Woodward's call:
1. Revenue up 4%
2. £29m loss
3. Wages increased by 9.4%
4. Sanchez's shirt sales already three times previous January record
5. New TV deal announcement maybe due within two weeks
6. Club expecting to make Champions League quarter-finals #mufc

Ed Woodward: “Sanchez signing generated 75% more social media interactions than Neymar to PSG. He set a new January record for shirt sales - Three times previous best.”#MUFC

Ed Woodward on TV Rights: “I need to be careful around this - it’s a very sensitive point in time. The first round of domestic bids is due in tomorrow. Watch this space.”

MUFC announce 2nd quarter revenues of £163.9m
Woodward: “Our solid business model has allowed us to invest in the future of the club with the extension of Jose Mourinho’s contract & the acquisition of Alexis Sanchez. We look forward to the remainder of the season with confidence”

Projected revenue for 2018 adjusted from £575m to £585m.
Yearly revenue in 2017: £581.2m

Andrew Beef

[/quote]”Fletcher was a great player, scholes still bossing games. Cleverly was meant to be the next big thing coming through”[/quote]

Sorry, but I can’t agree with the above post or with your other one. Darren Fletcher was not a “great player”. Paul Scholes was undoubtedly a great player, but bringing him out of retirement was bizarre. I’m not aware of any point in time where Tom Cleverly was “the next big thing coming through”.

As for your other post, in aggregate those signings have failed; Schweinsteiger didn’t work out, Schneiderlein didn’t work out, and Herrera is a squad player.

In summary, you seem to be disputing the fact that the midfield has been a problem area for ages which is bizarre. To my mind, we’ve been fluting around since Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves were signed.

bangkok

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Fletcher was a great player, scholes still bossing games. Cleverly was meant to be the next big thing coming through[/quote]

Sorry, but I can’t agree with the above post or with your other one. Darren Fletcher was not a “great player”. Paul Scholes was undoubtedly a great player, but bringing him out of retirement was bizarre. I’m not aware of any point in time where Tom Cleverly was “the next big thing coming through”.

As for your other post, in aggregate those signings have failed; Schweinsteiger didn’t work out, Schneiderlein didn’t work out, and Herrera is a squad player.

In summary, you seem to be disputing the fact that the midfield has been a problem area for ages which is bizarre. To my mind, we’ve been fluting around since Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves were signed.[/quote]

Yea sorry, fletcher was a fantastic player!

A certain inter milan manager said this at the time he was suspended for champions league final...

"Fletcher is more important than people think. His work in midfield, especially in the midfield 'wars', in crucial matches is very important. Man United will miss his pace and aggression in defensive actions: he 'eats' opponents in defensive transition. I believe Xavi and Andrés Iniesta are happy Fletch is not playing."

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

Yea sorry, fletcher was a fantastic player!

A certain inter milan manager said this at the time he was suspended for champions league final...

"Fletcher is more important than people think. His work in midfield, especially in the midfield 'wars', in crucial matches is very important. Man United will miss his pace and aggression in defensive actions: he 'eats' opponents in defensive transition. I believe Xavi and Andrés Iniesta are happy Fletch is not playing."

And regarding the comment of Cleverley, maybe we all remember it differently but I'm with you on the opinion that he was looked at as a player who was expected to become a stalwart in our midfield. Ferguson threw loads of praise on him when he first broke into the team, commenting on his goal scoring ability, football intelligence, and promise.

Sure in his first season of senior squad with us when he was 20/21 Fergie said the following in an interview after he picked up a knock:

"He, to my mind, is probably the best midfield player in Britain, potentially. He has fantastic promise, so it's a loss to us."

Easy to look back now and pretend he wasn't highly rated and tipped to being the next big thing but when you had someone of Fergie's experience saying things like this many, including myself, expected big things from him.

pjohnson

There was a strange period at the start of a season where Anderson and Cleverley actually looked great together until one of them (I think Anderson) got injured. After that neither reached those levels of performance again at the club.

Adamocovic

pjohnson wrote: »

Or

Better than Becks

adox

Lets remember we had Carrick and Giggs as a midfield two for a couple of seasons.

the midfield was neglected for the last few years of Fergies reign. I think thats undeniable to most people. Its a credit to Fergie and the players at the time that they papered over the cracks of the obvious issue in midfield, something that was constantly referred to in here for a couple of years.

Oh and as much as I loved Fletcher and he was a very good and useful player but to call him a great player is just nonsense.

Giggs in his 30s as a CM. I mean come on. Also the Scholes out of retirement was an utter embarrassment to the club and only highlighted, if anyone was in any doubt about the lack of options in midfield.

bucketybuck

adox wrote: »

the midfield was neglected for the last few years of Fergies reign. I think thats undeniable to most people.

Undeniable and hugely frustrating at the time. We lost a CL final largely because the midfield of Anderson, Carrick and Giggs wasn't good enough to compete in that game. Two years later we rocked up to another CL final with a midfield two of Carrick and the now 37 year old Giggs!!!

For all Fergie is a legend he royally screwed the pooch in neglecting that midfield and it did hurt the team.

I should try to remember though that it is only the usual contrarian that is saying any different.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Undeniable and hugely frustrating at the time. We lost a CL final largely because the midfield of Anderson, Carrick and Giggs wasn't good enough to compete in that game. Two years later we rocked up to another CL final with a midfield two of Carrick and the now 37 year old Giggs!!!

For all Fergie is a legend he royally screwed the pooch in neglecting that midfield and it did hurt the team.

I should try to remember though that it is only the usual contrarian that is saying any different.

To be honest we could have had roy keane in his prime and scholes beside him in his prime and we would have still lost those finals. Barca were one of the greatest sides in history.

Also it was the midfield of carrick giggs scholes anderson fletcher that got us to those champions league finals

adox

bucketybuck wrote: »

Undeniable and hugely frustrating at the time. We lost a CL final largely because the midfield of Anderson, Carrick and Giggs wasn't good enough to compete in that game. Two years later we rocked up to another CL final with a midfield two of Carrick and the now 37 year old Giggs!!!

For all Fergie is a legend he royally screwed the pooch in neglecting that midfield and it did hurt the team.

I should try to remember though that it is only the usual contrarian that is saying any different.

the funny thing is, although we have signed numerous MFs since I think its an area that still needs attention. I always said that we were buying the MF the wrong way around, signing Pogba without the right players in place to play with him.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Undeniable and hugely frustrating at the time. We lost a CL final largely because the midfield of Anderson, Carrick and Giggs wasn't good enough to compete in that game. Two years later we rocked up to another CL final with a midfield two of Carrick and the now 37 year old Giggs!!!

For all Fergie is a legend he royally screwed the pooch in neglecting that midfield and it did hurt the team.

I should try to remember though that it is only the usual contrarian that is saying any different.

Getting schooled by Barcelona, in part cause we couldn't compete in midfield, was annoying the first team. It was infuriating to lose the same way, for the same reason (made worse) the second time. No lesson learned. At a time we should have been going from strength the strength, we tread water in important areas and went backwards.

Whether that was down to Fergie neglecting it, deliberately or otherwise, or spending restrictions placed by the owners, was a big argument at the time, and I would say still is.

The purse strings have def been loosened now, but I do think the debt and Glazers held us back in terms of transfer spend.

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

the funny thing is, although we have signed numerous MFs since I think its an area that still needs attention. I always said that we were buying the MF the wrong way around, signing Pogba without the right players in place to play with him.

Probably correct, but the option of getting the right players and then pogba may not have been possible.

We got Pogba, and now we need to build around him.

I have no issue with us signing Pogba, or the timing of his signing.

Adamocovic

adox wrote: »

Oh and as much as I loved Fletcher and he was a very good and useful player but to call him a great player is just nonsense.

I think we can get caught up on the wording. Really kind of depends on how each person quantifies great in this context. Different people will interpret it differently, as you know.

For me, if we are taking great to mean that he was significantly better than average I would agree with people who call him a great player, not world class, legendary, one of the greatest but overall a very good/or great player at times for us.

Think he goes forgotten at times, Carrick used to deal with this too. When Fletcher broke into the team he became a regular for 8 seasons or so, 7 of 8 seasons had 30+ caps. Then of course he was diagnosed with his illness around 2011 and obviously this had an affect on his game and his overall appearances dropped considerably.

But he still had 340 caps for us, got named in the PL team of the season, was a regular performer and key player for us during multiple PL winning seasons, and while 2007-2008 he played less and was unused in the CL final he still played a lot during the campaign.

Completely agree though at the time I was embarrassed when we brought Scholes back from retirement. I know others disagree.

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Probably correct, but the option of getting the right players and then pogba may not have been possible.

We got Pogba, and now we need to build around him.

I have no issue with us signing Pogba, or the timing of his signing.

Yeah fair enough but I was very surprised that a Matic type player at least wasnt signed at the same time.

Anyway hopefully this summer it is finally addressed and we will see the fruits of a fully functioning MF.

Drumpot

bucketybuck wrote: »

Undeniable and hugely frustrating at the time. We lost a CL final largely because the midfield of Anderson, Carrick and Giggs wasn't good enough to compete in that game. Two years later we rocked up to another CL final with a midfield two of Carrick and the now 37 year old Giggs!!!

For all Fergie is a legend he royally screwed the pooch in neglecting that midfield and it did hurt the team.

I should try to remember though that it is only the usual contrarian that is saying any different.

I always find these kind of debates interesting. What logical reason do you think is most likely as to why SAF didn’t address the CM issue?

Do you think he didn’t realize the midfield was a weakness? Do you think he wasn’t able to get the players he wanted? Perhaps the modern players character was much weaker and he preferred inferior players with stronger character ? (Parker, fletcher etc) City and Chelsea hoovering up quality players?

You could say he never really replaced Scholes and Keane. Carrick has been a great player for the club but he wasn’t at that quality. I believe Essien was on United’s radar and Chelsea poached him (was that when Kenyon took our shopping list to them?!).

I personally think part of the problem was United’s transfer policy. Under the glazers the best player bought, at the peak of their powers was RVP and that was SAF final season.. No other player with that kind of proven quality and with that kind of impact was bought. Most players improved and excelled at the club , making their names at united but RVP brought instant quality. SAF didn’t moan and just worked his magic with what he had. Couldn’t imagine Pep doing the same and it’s one of the things that makes SAF such a special manager.

Comic Book Guy

pjohnson wrote: »

There was a strange period at the start of a season where Anderson and Cleverley actually looked great together until one of them (I think Anderson) got injured. After that neither reached those levels of performance again at the club.

Yeah I think that was the start of the 2011/12 season where he adjusted tactics to adopt a high press following on from the previous seasons champions league final defeat.
Started the season well, think we put 8 past Arsenal but then City whipped us and from memory the tactic was put back on the shelf.

jayo26

Really really hope mctominay gets plenty if game time between now and end if season if we could get the 3 of them gelling in midfield it would be a great boost.

I also think if mctominay comes in and is in the squad it will also effect how some people look at Jose.

Fans love to see a manager giving a youth player a chance and it would be positive for him towards fans.

ericzeking

jayo26 wrote: »

Really really hope mctominay gets plenty if game time between now and end if season if we could get the 3 of them gelling in midfield it would be a great boost.

I also think if mctominay comes in and is in the squad it will also effect how some people look at Jose.

Fans love to see a manager giving a youth player a chance and it would be positive for him towards fans.

I wouldn't be so sure, I think fans generally pass judgement very, very quickly, far too quickly and are more likely to be in favour of so called 'world class' signings for big dollah.

yabadabado

adox wrote: »

Yeah fair enough but I was very surprised that a Matic type player at least wasnt signed at the same time.

Anyway hopefully this summer it is finally addressed and we will see the fruits of a fully functioning MF.

A cm to play on the right of a midfield 3 is what's needed imo.
The number one priority needed in the summer.
Matic as the sitting cm and Pogba left who could be signed as the third right sided cm?

adox

yabadabado wrote: »

A cm to play on the right of a midfield 3 is what's needed imo.
The number one priority needed in the summer.
Matic as the sitting cm and Pogba left who could be signed as the third right sided cm?

Absolutely or two behind Pogba with the new singing being a more box to box player.

jayo26

ericzeking wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure, I think fans generally pass judgement very, very quickly, far too quickly and are more likely to be in favour of so called 'world class' signings for big dollah.

Don't agree there yes fans want world class signings but they also want a happy story of the kid coming threw the ranks.

Scott may not even make it but it would be nice for him to get a run in the team and see how he does seen as the alternative without him is a disfunctioning midfield.

bangkok

yabadabado wrote: »

A cm to play on the right of a midfield 3 is what's needed imo.
The number one priority needed in the summer.
Matic as the sitting cm and Pogba left who could be signed as the third right sided cm?

Marco Reus

bucketybuck

Drumpot wrote: »

I always find these kind of debates interesting. What logical reason do you think is most likely as to why SAF didn’t address the CM issue?

A lot of people think his hands were tied in terms of money, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes but my gut tells me that it wasn't money, it was Fergie.

Take the money argument for example, one problem is that Fergie spent plenty of money during all those years without buying a midfielder. From the signing of Hargreaves/Anderson until the year he retired Fergie spent about £140 million (when that was still massive money) but effectively didn't get a single central midfielder, so are people trying to say that he couldn't spare a single penny of that on anybody better than 37 year old Ryan Giggs? I'm not buying it.

The "no value in the market" line doesn't mean he couldn't afford his targets, I believe it meant he couldn't identify anybody he wanted and didn't want to buy for the sake of it. The problem is why he couldn't identify anybody? Its well known now that the scouting system needed an overhaul, but the main issue was that Fergie himself had long been unable to unearth the Ince/Keane/Robson types he wanted.

Lest we forget, midfield had been a big problem before Hargreaves and Carrick as well. Alan Smith anybody? Remember that big experiment to play him in midfield, basically because he was tenacious... Fergie couldn't settle on his midfield targets for longer than people think and the problem only became worse as the years went on.

pjohnson

I actually really liked Smith in midfield. He dominated Chelsea (or maybe Arsenal?) and he was still only adapting to the position. I loved Smith, one of my favourite players at the time. His stunning strike against Norwich on his OT Debut.


He really was never near the same after that Leg Break against Liverpool.

That second goal against Roma during their demolition nearly blew the roof off OT!