Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

I'd love to know what the fúck happened to Ander Herrera this season.

No, he wasn't the second coming of Xavi last season, but he was very good for the team. He was exactly what we are crying out for in CM at the moment. An option. Last season's Herrera could offer us a great option in CM right now.

This should have been a strong season for him and for our CM, but here we are in February recognising that CM is the the most important area that needs addressing in the Summer.

pjohnson

It was Chelsea!

yabadabado

yabadabado wrote: »

A cm to play on the right of a midfield 3 is what's needed imo.
The number one priority needed in the summer.
Matic as the sitting cm and Pogba left who could be signed as the third right sided cm?

Fairly accurate. Didn't Jose come out and say primary signing will be a CM recently?
You would feel when he locks down Shaw he won't be worrying out a LB so full focus on the CM signing.
And we don't need any more attackers.

deaddonkey15

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Fairly accurate. Didn't Jose come out and say primary signing will be a CM recently?
You would feel when he locks down Shaw he won't be worrying out a LB so full focus on the CM signing.
And we don't need any more attackers.

I think he said he won't be targeting attackers, so that would leave midfield and defence. Both could do with a quality signing or two.

Andrew Beef

Personally I think that a midfielder is all that’s required. A few of my United supporting mates think that the centre-halves are substandard with the exception of Eric Bailly. I disagree and think that Jones is top-class and the rest are grand as support; I’d be very happy with a longer-term partnership of Bailly and Jones.

Lord TSC

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Personally I think that a midfielder is all that’s required. A few of my United supporting mates think that the centre-halves are substandard with the exception of Eric Bailly. I disagree and think that Jones is top-class and the rest are grand as support; I’d be very happy with a longer-term partnership of Bailly and Jones.

Jones is held back from being top class by virtue of the fact he's garrunteed to miss half the season trough injury. He's utterly unreliable for that reason?

bucketybuck

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Personally I think that a midfielder is all that’s required. A few of my United supporting mates think that the centre-halves are substandard with the exception of Eric Bailly. I disagree and think that Jones is top-class and the rest are grand as support; I’d be very happy with a longer-term partnership of Bailly and Jones.

Where people really underrate them is in comparison to our rivals.

Cahil, Luiz and Christensen? Stones, Otamendi and Mangala? Lovern, Matip and Van Djek? Whoever Arsenal have? Even the highly rated Spurs two are missing half the time as far as I can see.

They might not be Vidic or Ferdinand but I'd take our lot over any other teams defenders and that must count for something.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

I always find these kind of debates interesting. What logical reason do you think is most likely as to why SAF didn’t address the CM issue?

Do you think he didn’t realize the midfield was a weakness? Do you think he wasn’t able to get the players he wanted? Perhaps the modern players character was much weaker and he preferred inferior players with stronger character ? (Parker, fletcher etc) City and Chelsea hoovering up quality players?

You could say he never really replaced Scholes and Keane. Carrick has been a great player for the club but he wasn’t at that quality. I believe Essien was on United’s radar and Chelsea poached him (was that when Kenyon took our shopping list to them?!).

I personally think part of the problem was United’s transfer policy. Under the glazers the best player bought, at the peak of their powers was RVP and that was SAF final season.. No other player with that kind of proven quality and with that kind of impact was bought. Most players improved and excelled at the club , making their names at united but RVP brought instant quality. SAF didn’t moan and just worked his magic with what he had. Couldn’t imagine Pep doing the same and it’s one of the things that makes SAF such a special manager.

our midfield from the early 90's right through until roy keane left the club was top class.

when keane left we signed Michael Carrick, imo one of the most under rated players to ever play for the club. with Carrick in the heart of our team in midfield we had one of the most successful spells in the clubs history.....from 2006-2011 we won 4 premier league titles, got to 3 champions league finals, won a league cup and a club world cup

in 2008 we signed Owen Hargreaves and Anderson who was one of the best young players in europe at the time. there were no issues in midfield around that time, carrick was exceptional, Anderson won the golden boy, fletcher was brilliant in the big games, scholes was still controlling games and was world class.

around 2011 we had some exceptional young midfielders in our youth/reserves, Pogba, Cleverly, Morrison, Danny Drinkwater the future looked bright. Fergie had big plans for the first 3, they would have all got their chance but Pogbas agent got into the family and turned pogbas head, morrison had non football related issues that effected him and cleverly got his chance, started off well but his form dipped

i can see why he didnt sign any midfielders that year, still had carrick so it was really only going to be one other playing in midfield with him and id say he thought one of them would make the break through.

in his final season he signed Kagawa and nick powell who most clubs in england were after

we won another premier league title and were robbed in the champions league with the Nani red card. we actually were dominating the game with a midfield 3 of carrick giggs and cleverly and were going through on the night only for the red card

yea maybe around the 2010 season he could have signed a world class midfielder but the way we were winning and the players performing with the youths that were coming through, i dont think he neglected the midfield at all

Andrew Beef

Lord TSC wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Personally I think that a midfielder is all that’s required. A few of my United supporting mates think that the centre-halves are substandard with the exception of Eric Bailly. I disagree and think that Jones is top-class and the rest are grand as support; I’d be very happy with a longer-term partnership of Bailly and Jones.

Jones is held back from being top class by virtue of the fact he's garrunteed to miss half the season trough injury. He's utterly unreliable for that reason?

You’re probably right, although he seems to have turned a corner of sorts lately and maybe dropped the Mr Glass act.

duffman13

bangkok wrote: »

our midfield from the early 90's right through until roy keane left the club was top class.

when keane left we signed Michael Carrick, imo one of the most under rated players to ever play for the club. with Carrick in the heart of our team in midfield we had one of the most successful spells in the clubs history.....from 2006-2011 we won 4 premier league titles, got to 3 champions league finals, won a league cup and a club world cup

in 2008 we signed Owen Hargreaves and Anderson who was one of the best young players in europe at the time. there were no issues in midfield around that time, carrick was exceptional, Anderson won the golden boy, fletcher was brilliant in the big games, scholes was still controlling games and was world class.

around 2011 we had some exceptional young midfielders in our youth/reserves, Pogba, Cleverly, Morrison, Danny Drinkwater the future looked bright. Fergie had big plans for the first 3, they would have all got their chance but Pogbas agent got into the family and turned pogbas head, morrison had non football related issues that effected him and cleverly got his chance, started off well but his form dipped

i can see why he didnt sign any midfielders that year, still had carrick so it was really only going to be one other playing in midfield with him and id say he thought one of them would make the break through.

in his final season he signed Kagawa and nick powell who most clubs in england were after

we won another premier league title and were robbed in the champions league with the Nani red card. we actually were dominating the game with a midfield 3 of carrick giggs and cleverly and were going through on the night only for the red card

yea maybe around the 2010 season he could have signed a world class midfielder but the way we were winning and the players performing with the youths that were coming through, i dont think he neglected the midfield at all

He's really not underrated at all anymore. I agree with you up until around 2009/10 we were fine, it was a shambles to not invest in midfield looking at aging Giggs there, a constantly injured Haregreaves etc. The time to invest was glaring after the 09 champions league final.

beno619

Hindsight is great an all but having seen how blaise a 24yr old Paul Pogba treats is defensive responsibilities is it surprising that Fergie decided to go with Rafael in that Blackburn game over an 18yr old Pogba.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I think he said he won't be targeting attackers, so that would leave midfield and defence. Both could do with a quality signing or two.

I'd defo agree with you in midfield. I'm happy with our defensive options however.

bangkok

duffman13 wrote: »

He's really not underrated at all anymore. I agree with you up until around 2009/10 we were fine, it was a shambles to not invest in midfield looking at aging Giggs there, a constantly injured Haregreaves etc. The time to invest was glaring after the 09 champions league final.

no but hes about to retire :P

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jones is held back from being top class by virtue of the fact he's garrunteed to miss half the season trough injury. He's utterly unreliable for that reason?

Hopefully Bailly isn't going down that same path.

So disappointing the stops and starts he's having so far.

deaddonkey15

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd defo agree with you in midfield. I'm happy with our defensive options however.

Defence isn't too urgent. But we should probably sign a right back sometime soon. I wouldn't mind a world class centre half either, I think Bailly is the closest we have to that bracket, but like Jones, he's no use to us when he's injured.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Defence isn't too urgent. But we should probably sign a right back sometime soon. I wouldn't mind a world class centre half either, I think Bailly is the closest we have to that bracket, but like Jones, he's no use to us when he's injured.

He's been unlucky though. I couldn't put him in the Jones brackets yet it's too soon since he signed. Hopefully Baily comes back fit and doesn't get injured again.

As for Jones, I'd argue his fitness has improved somewhat and so has his decision making.

Giggsy11

beno619 wrote: »

Hindsight is great an all but having seen how blaise a 24yr old Paul Pogba treats is defensive responsibilities is it surprising that Fergie decided to go with Rafael in that Blackburn game over an 18yr old Pogba.

Tbf it was a mistake back then and still a mistake today.

It's not like Pogba is incapable of playing in midfield 2 against teams like Blackburn who were relegated that season. Pogba's problem is playing in midfield 2 against stronger midfields away from home.

It was complete tactical mistake to play midfield 2 against Spurs away from home.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Tbf it was a mistake back then and still a mistake today.

It's not like Pogba is incapable of playing in midfield 2 against teams like Blackburn who were relegated that season. Pogba's problem is playing in midfield 2 against stronger midfields away from home.

It was complete tactical mistake to play midfield 2 against Spurs away from home.

I didn't see it as a midfield 2 really, I thought Lingard would be dropping back a lot more but both he and Pogba were quite tactically naive that day. Lingard was quite good but unless everyone is pressing like him it's easy enough to play around and Pogba certainly wasn't doing that.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

I didn't see it as a midfield 2 really, I thought Lingard would be dropping back a lot more but both he and Pogba were quite tactically naive that day. Lingard was quite good but unless everyone is pressing like him it's easy enough to play around and Pogba certainly wasn't doing that.

Yeah it's a midfield 3 with attacking mid. Not the same, it's asking Pogba to play double pivot when his weakness is defending.

Also I don't think midfield 3 with Lingard works because of the way team is coached and set up. For example, take Spurs. They play compact game, every one is close to each other and press in numbers and win the ball back.

ManUtd is different, our players are static and drop deeper to win the ball back in defensive third. Lingard is very good at pressing from the front but once the ball crosses half way line, we need and rely on players to track the runners and intercept rather than aggressively win the ball by closing down passing lanes and hunt in packs.

4-2-3-1 with Pogba in double pivot works at home or against teams below top 6, but not against top 6 especially away from home.

Cantona's Collars

VAR to be used in our cup game against Huddersfield. Part of me wishes we win the game due to a dubious VAR decision just to see the inevitable meltdown by certain guests that pop in here.

J. Marston

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

VAR to be used in our cup game against Huddersfield. Part of me wishes we win the game due to a dubious VAR decision just to see the inevitable meltdown by certain guests that pop in here.

What interest would those guests have in the FA Cup?

Cantona's Collars

J. Marston wrote: »

What interest would those guests have in the FA Cup?

Boom!!

https://twitter.com/ManUtd_HQ/status/961919105807855616

Legend

Incredible atmosphere too

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

My point is though it wasnt neglected. Carrick was probably the best midfielder in england. Fletcher was a great player, scholes still bossing games. Cleverly was meant to be the next big thing coming through

It was shockingly neglected, that frequently came to the fore in the Champions league matches in the crunch end of the competition.

He knew how to win the league, over and over. But he struggled so much in Europe because we didn't have a slicker midfield. But like when he came up against Jose' Chelsea MKi, couldn't manage it. Coming up against a team with a dominant midfield, just steamrolling us.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

A lot of people think his hands were tied in terms of money, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes but my gut tells me that it wasn't money, it was Fergie.

Take the money argument for example, one problem is that Fergie spent plenty of money during all those years without buying a midfielder. From the signing of Hargreaves/Anderson until the year he retired Fergie spent about £140 million (when that was still massive money) but effectively didn't get a single central midfielder, so are people trying to say that he couldn't spare a single penny of that on anybody better than 37 year old Ryan Giggs? I'm not buying it.

The "no value in the market" line doesn't mean he couldn't afford his targets, I believe it meant he couldn't identify anybody he wanted and didn't want to buy for the sake of it. The problem is why he couldn't identify anybody? Its well known now that the scouting system needed an overhaul, but the main issue was that Fergie himself had long been unable to unearth the Ince/Keane/Robson types he wanted.

Lest we forget, midfield had been a big problem before Hargreaves and Carrick as well. Alan Smith anybody? Remember that big experiment to play him in midfield, basically because he was tenacious... Fergie couldn't settle on his midfield targets for longer than people think and the problem only became worse as the years went on.

Agree with you here. It wasn't money at all. IT was the manager.

He led slide some really good players for little to no money. Strootman for £12m. Dembele for something like £11 and those were just examples in his final years, there was a litany of them throughout.

There was a load of midfielders that made moves over the course of his later years we could have likely signed to strengthen the team, he just believed in what he had, rightly or wrongly. In the end, wrongly when his idea what a midfield two of Cleverly and Anderson.

I saw that he saw potential in it, a neat and tidy player on the ball coupled with a box to box lungbuster, but like, it was pretty audacious of him, a player constantly injured and a player just breaking through.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Where people really underrate them is in comparison to our rivals.

Cahil, Luiz and Christensen? Stones, Otamendi and Mangala? Lovern, Matip and Van Djek? Whoever Arsenal have? Even the highly rated Spurs two are missing half the time as far as I can see.

They might not be Vidic or Ferdinand but I'd take our lot over any other teams defenders and that must count for something.

It does count for something alright, and I'd agree with you. Vertonghan, Azpalecuita (**** am i googling his name to spell it right haha) , Alderweireld.

About the only defenders from other clubs I get jelly about.

But then the general context being there is a general derp in terms of world class defenders in world football at the moment.

Bailly and Lindelof on potential and attributes is a pretty nice pairing, if the two ever get themselves going, fit, firing and consolidated in the team. It's on paper the new Vidic and Ferdinand axis (in terms of the compliments of each others pros and cons, please dont jump on me making out I said Lindeloff is better than Ferdinand : / )

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtd_HQ/status/961919105807855616

Legend

Incredible atmosphere too

What a beautiful little touch on the setup.

Always a pity how we only got one season of him before he turned sour

Adamocovic

Does any remember how Tom Cleverley seemed like he wanted to be like Wayne Rooney when they played together? There used to be some very funny exchanges. Back when Twitter was getting bigger for players who would post themselves, before sport stars had a plethora of social media staff to do it for them.

Must have a look for it later but I remember he always seemed to follow Wayne around like the two goons behind Draco. I think one time Rooney had a dig at one of the faces Phil made during a game, Tom jumped in too and Phil replied with something about how he was surprised Tom could pull himself away from kissing Waynes backside to get a dig in.

Delboy5

UEFA Youth League last 16 draw:

Liverpool v Man Utd...

Adamocovic

Delboy5 wrote: »

UEFA Youth League last 16 draw:

Liverpool v Man Utd...

Aul Nicky Butt seems to be doing well with them.
Also for Irish interest we have Lee O'Connor playing nearly all the games so far for them. Only 17 and too many youth players do well for us and never make it to the senior squad but would be nice to see another Irish player reach the standard required.

Delboy5

Delboy5 wrote: »

UEFA Youth League last 16 draw:

Liverpool v Man Utd...

And the reward if we win that is a game against the winners of

Man City v Inter Milan

Will I Am Not

adox

Well look who it is!!

Will I Am Not

adox wrote: »

Well look who it is!!

It’s been too long. Roll on Newcastle

Mitch Connor

Nailed on draw tomorrow.

adox

adox wrote: »

Well look who it is!!

Expecting TheTownie, v3ttell & RobertKK to make an appearance later

Maybe even Pro F!

*Edit* yermandan made this happen :pac:

Will I Am Not

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Expecting TheTownie, v3ttell & RobertKK to make an appearance later

Maybe even Pro F!

*Edit* yermandan made this happen :pac:

They’re not all gone are they?

Will I Am Not

Will I Am Not wrote: »

They’re not all gone are they?

Haven't seen em in a long while. I'm convinced they have merged into the jayos...

Same goes for these lads / lassies. They might respond now :P

Al Capwned
Mikeyt086
homerjay2005
Quandary
Vic Vinegar
Professional Griefer

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

It was shockingly neglected, that frequently came to the fore in the Champions league matches in the crunch end of the competition.

He knew how to win the league, over and over. But he struggled so much in Europe because we didn't have a slicker midfield. But like when he came up against Jose' Chelsea MKi, couldn't manage it. Coming up against a team with a dominant midfield, just steamrolling us.

Struggled in europe? Between 08-11 we got to 3 champions league finals

https://youtu.be/pbfGi54ZF84

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

Struggled in europe? Between 08-11 we got to 3 champions league finals

https://youtu.be/pbfGi54ZF84

nullzero

Had we played any other than that Barcelona team in those two finals we'd have two more European cups, they were a freak side. Fergie had the champions league down to a fine art, we sailed through it for the most part for those few years.

Mitch Connor

nullzero wrote: »

Had we played any other than that Barcelona team in those two finals we'd have two more European cups, they were a freak side. Fergie had the champions league down to a fine art, we sailed through it for the most part for those few years.

I think we were also blessed getting Shalke in the semi final before the second beating we took off Barcelona.

The Marsaille, Chelesea, Shalke route to the final was a nice run of draws and helped us get there.

I also think there was a huge regression in quality between the 08 winners and the side that lost to Barcelona for the second time.

Lord TSC

Jose apparently has said a new contract for Shaw is immenant

Ibra back in full training, Blind and Bailly out.

StringerBell

Adamocovic wrote: »

Aul Nicky Butt seems to be doing well with them.
Also for Irish interest we have Lee O'Connor playing nearly all the games so far for them. Only 17 and too many youth players do well for us and never make it to the senior squad but would be nice to see another Irish player reach the standard required.

A friend of mines nephew, really pulling for him to make big strides in the next few years. Too long since we had some green representation, he has a tough job ahead of him though.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose apparently has said a new contract for Shaw is immenant

Ibra back in full training, Blind and Bailly out.

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/961955722438369280

DM_7

New contract or a option taken on a year extension?

jayo26

DM_7 wrote: »

New contract or a option taken on a year extension?

The option is already taken sounds like Shaw wants a new deal which is excellent news.

Mitch Connor

The fact Shaw was immediately dropped for Young pointed to his pace on the squad. Will be interesting to see who starts tomorrow.

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The fact Shaw was immediately dropped for Young pointed to his pace on the squad. Will be interesting to see who starts tomorrow.

I think the fact he was brought in after the spurs game says a lot more.

I hope a similar line-up to the last one but with pogba in team instead of Jessie.

Lithium93_

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Nailed on draw tomorrow.

United play on Sunday..