Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

Andrew Beef

My tuppence worth...

Ken Early’s piece in today’s Irish Times is bang on the money re Pogba. He does not have the discipline to do what’s being asked of him. He needs to be deployed on the left of a midfield three. I also agree with Graeme Souness’ analysis in Saturday’s Times; the man knows a thing or two about midfield play.

I am also particularly worried about Phil Jones’ form of late; he seems to have overcome the fitness issue only to replace it with a quality issue!

Finally, I have zero idea why Anthony Martial was deployed on the right and Sanchez on the left when both seem to do their best work the other way around.

Worrying times in the race for Top 4; for the love of God, we can’t end up in a Devon Loch scenario!

yabadabado

TheDoc wrote: »

Incredible how under utilised he has been this season.

No surprise, he simply isn't good enough.

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Thanks for asking Mick.

In simple terms I think Pogba has the potential to be world class if deployed in a system which plays to his strengths and protects against his weaknesses which isn't such a mystery, just copy the Juventus set up.

I don't understand why Mourinho bought him if he wasn't going to play that three man midfield system with Pogba at the tip in a pretty free role.

He has all the physical attributes to be an assist and goal scoring machine but his big weakness is defence, he just doesn't seem to have any natural positioning or an ability to concentrate when it comes to that part of the game and in a Mourinho team that simply isn't tolerated.

Maybe Mourinho thought he could coach that part of the game into him or that with age/maturity that part of his game would naturally develop but he'll be 25 in a few weeks so it looks less and less likely to happen.

I think Mourinho either needs to get another Matic type player in and switch to a 3 man MF (where Pogba and Lingard fight for the AM role) or get rid of him which I know sounds mental given his talent and what he cost but to persevere with a square peg in a round hole who is costing you points/games seems even more mental!!

Now I'll duck for the blow back

Well at least you shared what reads like an honest opinion so kudos to you for that.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Ah I know I was just pointing it out to Mick where that post came from.

You can’t give him NO defensive responsibility tbh, Even Lukaku has a defensive responsibility in closing down the channels. You could try give him less alright but against the bigger teams, the whole team should be able to defend and attack as a Unit.. numerous times against Spurs he had a runner in front of him chasing back that he could have caught with a bit of effort.. the lack of effort in tracking back was what annoyed me the most about him against Spurs.

I just think he had an off day (passing and attacking) yesterday where it was clear he had less defensive responsibility. He looked incredibly jaded and that could have been as a result of a strain or so.. I’d still risk a not fully fit Pogba in that role over anyone tbh.. most players at this time of the year are carrying knocks and strains.

The Problem was that Jose should have taking him off earlier when it was known he was out of form. He told Jose he was fine after 15 mins. I dunno, I’d like to think that Jose keeping him on was to try not knock his confidence with a 20 min or 45 min subbing.. who knows.

Nobody has been saying that either.

I find some posters are struggling to grasp the fact we are not getting the best out of him in a midfield 2.
It doesn't have to be some elaborate reason or tactic. It's fairly straight forward.
Use the CM players we have available to play beside Matic and let Pogba do his thing (create, take risks in attack)
The rest will sort itself out.

bangkok

FutureGuy wrote: »

I enjoy watching City and Liverpool far more than I do United.

There. I said it.

Been like that a good few months now. Ever since we played liverpool away

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

We have three players alone doing that on the left wing while the right wing is barren.

What I'd give for a half-decent right winger.

Should have been all over salah before he went to liverpool. The signing of the season

J. Marston

Saw this today on r/soccer and thought it was interesting. Frenkie de Jong for Ajax...

https://streamable.com/pxikj

Imagine showing that to Smalling and Jones? Their brains would melt.

SlickRic

FutureGuy wrote: »

I enjoy watching City and Liverpool far more than I do United.

There. I said it.

Football fan in 'enjoying attacking football' shocker

Trigger

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Nobody has been saying that either.

I find some posters are struggling to grasp the fact we are not getting the best out of him in a midfield 2.
It doesn't have to be some elaborate reason or tactic. It's fairly straight forward.
Use the CM players we have available to play beside Matic and let Pogba do his thing (create, take risks in attack)
The rest will sort itself out.

Seriously Mick that’s twice you are after saying that when I have literally quoted a post saying both those things.. I am replying to Pjohnson.. he has since clarified his first comment

Membr the Everton game?

Have a look at the team. How'd Pogba get on?

http://www.skysports.com/football/everton-vs-man-utd/373310

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Seriously Mick that’s twice you are after saying that when I have literally quoted a post saying both those things.. I am replying to Pjohnson.. he has since clarified his first comment

Apologies I've just noted that.

Cantona's Collars

J. Marston wrote: »

Saw this today on r/soccer and thought it was interesting. Frenkie de Jong for Ajax...

https://streamable.com/pxikj

Imagine showing that to Smalling and Jones? Their brains would melt.

Smalling giving us heart attacks as he tries to sort his feet out.

Mars Bar

FutureGuy wrote: »

I enjoy watching City and Liverpool far more than I do United.

There. I said it.

City are worth the watch just for De Bruyne alone. I love watching analysis videos on Youtube or Twitter of his play after a game.

bangkok

Mars Bar wrote: »

City are worth the watch just for De Bruyne alone. I love watching analysis videos on Youtube or Twitter of his play after a game.

Aguero, even though he did score 'that goal' is probably my favourite non man utd player. A class act

pjohnson

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Smalling giving us heart attacks as he tries to sort his feet out.

And then dives if someone comes too close.

yourdeadwright

Everyone ignoring the fact that Big Rom slows the game down way to much, Stick Alexis up top in the middle(where he had his best season at Arsenal) and play Martial on the left ,Rashford on the right

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Everyone ignoring the fact that Big Rom slows the game down way to much, Stick Alexis up top in the middle(where he had his best season at Arsenal) and play Martial on the left ,Rashford on the right

I'm not ignoring that, I just don't agree with it. United's tactics and service to him are terrible. They need to play with him like he can actually play football, and not like we have Quinn up front to lump it to.

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm not ignoring that, I just don't agree with it. United's tactics and service to him are terrible. They need to play with him like he can actually play football, and not like we have Quinn up front to lump it to.

I still think the MIA midfield doesnt help. Matic is swamped so its a hoof to Lukaku. He chases it gamely tbf to him. Also caused one of our best chances when he outpowered Lejeune to whip that cross into Martial. Ideally you want it the other way with Lukaku recieving the cross from Martial.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

I still think the MIA midfield doesnt help. Matic is swamped so its a hoof to Lukaku. He chases it gamely tbf to him. Also caused one of our best chances when he outpowered Lejeune to whip that cross into Martial. Ideally you want it the other way with Lukaku recieving the cross from Martial.

that is partly it, but also Jose thinks playing direct to Lukaku is how our attack should be formed. He said it after the Everton game, with Lukaku out we couldn't play our normal direct game so we had to change our approach to attacking.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Aguero, even though he did score 'that goal' is probably my favourite non man utd player. A class act

He is the only player that is a mainstay in my Fantasy football year in year out.. mad to think he has 21 goals this season when he wasn’t even suppose to be first choice striker.. he’s ****in Lethal

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

He is the only player that is a mainstay in my Fantasy football year in year out.. mad to think he has 21 goals this season when he wasn’t even suppose to be first choice striker.. he’s ****in Lethal

Its also mad he has never made the pfa team of the year!!

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

astradave wrote: »

He is the only player that is a mainstay in my Fantasy football year in year out.. mad to think he has 21 goals this season when he wasn’t even suppose to be first choice striker.. he’s ****in Lethal

Its also mad he has never made the pfa team of the year!!

He's an odd one thought, he tends to score in bunches , So he doesn't score every week and stick in your mind , he wont score for 5 weeks then get 4 in one game ,

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

astradave wrote: »

He is the only player that is a mainstay in my Fantasy football year in year out.. mad to think he has 21 goals this season when he wasn’t even suppose to be first choice striker.. he’s ****in Lethal

Its also mad he has never made the pfa team of the year!!

He's an odd one thought, he tends to score in bunches , So he doesn't score every week and stick in your mind , he wont score for 5 weeks then get 4 in one game ,

Adamcp898

bangkok wrote: »

Its also mad he has never made the pfa team of the year!!

Has he ever been fit for a full season?

PFA awards are voted for around this time of the season afaik and if you're after missing the last month people won't think of you.

TheDoc

J. Marston wrote: »

Saw this today on r/soccer and thought it was interesting. Frenkie de Jong for Ajax...

https://streamable.com/pxikj

Imagine showing that to Smalling and Jones? Their brains would melt.

Very similar to the videos I watched about Lindelof when we signed him and I wanted to find out more about him.

Along with his range of passing was his confidence surging through gaps in the middle of the pitch.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

that is partly it, but also Jose thinks playing direct to Lukaku is how our attack should be formed. He said it after the Everton game, with Lukaku out we couldn't play our normal direct game so we had to change our approach to attacking.

It would actually work fine if they played him to feet or in the channels like happened at times yesterday.

His touch and linkup play, is totally blown out of proportion. He's pretty good at it, and like pretty much any football team, we look best moving forward when he takes the ball back to goal, releases to onrunning midfielders or wide players, spins and surgers into the box.

It's how you get defenders running towards their goal and stretch a team out of their defensive shape.

Too much we just ignore Lukaku, hit him a hoof, or worse still have three other people moving through his spaces in the middle.

It's the problem that was there under Van Gaal, and he had a period where he played 4-3-3 and all of a sudden Rooney had space, and we looked so much better, faster, efficent and destructive.

It's not rocket science like, you congest the strikers area, you not only take him out of your own game, you force the game wide, where its bread and butter for defenders.

The service Lukaku gets is genuinelly shocking.I became aware of it, and I'm constantly looking at it. He gets about 1-2 decent balls in a game if hes lucky that he can run onto or take a strike at. He's doing phenomenally well considering he is, another player, not being utilised or having their strengths catered for

Think he's made a mockery of the "Morata" comparison narrative that was taking hold early on in the season.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Its also mad he has never made the pfa team of the year!!

He is the unfortunate recipient of making incredible feel normal.

It's pretty much a cointoss for me who is the best striker in the league between him and Kane, but Aguero would nip it in terms of doing it longer.

duffman13

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Everyone ignoring the fact that Big Rom slows the game down way to much, Stick Alexis up top in the middle(where he had his best season at Arsenal) and play Martial on the left ,Rashford on the right

Sorry Lukaku is not the problem with the team at the moment. His link up play in general is better than I expected and Sanchez loses the ball far to often to warrant replacing Lukaku. Our front 3 in general are fine, our issue is midfielders and particularly coming from deep.

Our early season form was Good, Matic was popping up in and around the box, movement caused the other team trouble. At the moment we've got a midfield that doesn't adapt. Lingard, Pogba and now Sanchez to an extent go wherever they want on the pitch. Our full backs don't overlap and make the pitch bigger, we are constantly cutting back inside.

Shaw and Carrick to come in to the team and that allows Pogba to get forward, Matic and Carrick to support interchangeably, and drop in as almost a 3rd cb when we lose the ball. Carricks passing is brilliant and penetrating, he seems to be back fit and you'd get at least 70 mins from him

Andrew Beef

Lukaku is playing very well. No way is he the problem.

Liam O

Imo Pogba's position is not near the biggest problem with the team. The ability to play out from the back and offensive balance are. Nobody capable of clearing the press and getting the ball to Pogba where he can link the play so has to move out of position to receive the ball. Then with nobody up front spreading the defense and all just coming inside it allows the other team to be compact and I mean, they're hardly going to worry about Valencia putting in a good ball.

This can be solved by 1. Not playing Smalling and 2. Playing Sanchez on the right. Shaw and Martial doubling up defenders on the left and Sanchez being able to put balls into the box on his good side improves everyone imo. Shaw and Sanchez I think could be trusted to put in some good crosses even if Valencia and Martial cannot. Then rotate Mata and Lingard. Pogba can play the box to box but there obviously has to be more tactical awareness from both him and whoever is in front of him.

At this stage Pogba in the 2 will probably be scrapped though...

J. Marston

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Lukaku is playing very well. No way is he the problem.

Very generous. He's alright.

StringerBell

Lukaku is playing very well, he works his bollix off and lives off scraps, often completely isolated, a ball was knocked up to him yesterday and there was not one United player within 20 yards of him, possibly 30.

He is showing himself to be probably the best crosser we have too which is kinda shameful tbf. He is dropping back into midfield to get involved, going out wide to get involved. There really isn't a whole lot you can level at him right now, even his hold up play has improved.

He was winning plenty of knock ons and playing plenty of balls through v Newcastle also, putting in Sanchez, Martial etc they just made a balls of any opportunity that came their way.

I'm not certain what he can do to win over certain people, but I also wouldn't get hung up over it too much, he doesn't pounce on every single half chance he gets? Big whoop, not one striker in world football does. Create chances for him and he will score, it is that simple.

rob316

I don't think its going to happen, but do ye guys see Jose been sacked if ye finish outside the Top 4?

Liam McPoyle

rob316 wrote: »

I don't think its going to happen, but do ye guys see Jose been sacked if ye finish outside the Top 4?

Possibly, one would imagine that it's part of his contract but it begs the question, if he was sacked, who would replace him?

Personally I think it would incredibly silly of he was to get the boot for that alone, should it come to it.

bangkok

Business Cat wrote: »

Possibly, one would imagine that it's part of his contract but it begs the question, if he was sacked, who would replace him?

Personally I think it would incredibly silly of he was to get the boot for that alone, should it come to it.

Pochetinno and sign harry kane as well. 100m plus lukaku

bucketybuck

rob316 wrote: »

I don't think its going to happen, but do ye guys see Jose been sacked if ye finish outside the Top 4?

I'd almost like to see it, there are a few people who would **** themselves silly if he got sacked and I suspect they could do with the relief.

Lord TSC

We've already established finishing outside the top four and not having CL football is a sackable offence. If we went from spending all season in second to dropping down to fifth, it would show a lack of progression.

But I'd be utterly amazed if it happened. Chelsea are a bomb site at the moment, and Pool and Spurs will drop silly points just like we have. There was a post on the Soccer Reddit the other day about percentage chances of European qualification. We were at 96%.

It will be City, us, Liverpool and Spurs.

Moist Bread

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'd almost like to see it, there are a few people who would **** themselves silly if he got sacked and I suspect they could do with the relief.

That sort of chat is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

StringerBell

Moist Bread wrote: »

That sort of chat is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Genuinely unsure if serious or not

bucketybuck

Moist Bread wrote: »

That sort of chat is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm really not.

Andrew Beef

Talk of Jose getting the chop is extreme to say the least.

Season 1: 3 trophies

Season 2: Top 4 looking good, some great signings, and a tilt at the Champions League

Some people forget what a shambles we were under David Moyes and Louis Van Gaal; these men wrecked the club and had us on a similar trajectory to Liverpool.

Jose has steadied the ship and will lead us to glory; I am 100% convinced that he is the right man for the job.

Nalz

J. Marston wrote: »

Very generous. He's alright.

Hes done a very decent job. People who slate Lukaku over Rashford or Pogba, or even slate Jones over Smalling are just not watching the same games I am.

Pogba at times has been like a headless chicken, 2 or 3 man midfield excuse or not.

Smalling has been muck.

Lukakus touch and hold up play has improved

I feel sorry for Lukaku, De Gea, Matic, you could already add Sanchez to that list, having to play with the standard of performances Smalling and Pogba put in.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

We've already established finishing outside the top four and not having CL football is a sackable offence. If we went from spending all season in second to dropping down to fifth, it would show a lack of progression.

It would take an implosion. Which would immediately be followed by talk of lost dressing rooms and player power.

I'm not sure how I would feel about that, underperforming managers rightly get sacked but by god there are a lot of bull**** players there that need a good cull, it would be disappointing to see them roll onto the next victim and swap what has been progression for another few years of rebuilding.

Liam O

Nalz wrote: »

Hes done a very decent job. People who slate Lukaku over Rashford or Pogba, or even slate Jones over Smalling are just not watching the same games I am.

Pogba at times has been like a headless chicken, 2 or 3 man midfield excuse or not.

Smalling has been muck.

Lukakus touch and hold up play has improved

I feel sorry for Lukaku, De Gea, Matic, you could already add Sanchez to that list, having to play with the standard of performances Smalling and Pogba put in.

Jones has been great this season imo. Had the shocker against Spurs but hard to single out any other bad performances imo.

Smalling is cowardly. Ironically great at aerial duels but steps back from tackles and panics on the ball.

Andrew Beef

We have the makings of a first team that can take on anyone. De Gea, Valencia, Bailly, Lukaku, Martial, and Sanchez are beyond reproach. Played on the left of a three man midfield, Pogba will be as good as anything out there in my humble opinion. I’m convinced by Matic, and if Shaw can recapture the form he showed right up to his leg-break, we’re onto a winner there.

On that basis, we’re looking at a midfielder and possibly a centre-half; I have been a Phil Jones disciple but I’m starting to lose faith. I have no faith in Smalling, Rojo, Lindeloff, Young, Herrera, or Blind to be anything other than squad players.

Marcus Rashford remains a great white hope, but he has been alarmingly ineffective this season.

bucketybuck

Andrew Beef wrote: »

We have the makings of a first team that can take on anyone. De Gea, Valencia, Bailly, Lukaku, Martial, and Sanchez are beyond reproach.

I'll ignore the momentum killer for now, but did you see the difference between Sanchez and Martial yesterday?

Night and day in terms of application when the result was in doubt, so lets just say that I find plenty of reason for reproach there.

bangkok

If jose was to leave and we got poch i would be delighted. For the money we have spent and the performances we are producing its just not good enough.

bangkok

Sturridge lasts all of 4 mins!!

Andrew Beef

bangkok wrote: »

If jose was to leave and we got poch i would be delighted. For the money we have spent and the performances we are producing its just not good enough.

I don’t believe that viewpoint recognises just how low we had gone under David Moyes and Louis Van Gaal. Both men should go down as villains in the history of Manchester United. They wrecked the club. Jose inherited a club that was listing towards a Liverpool-style period in the wilderness.

Rayne Wooney

We will switch to a midfield 3 and people will moan that it’s too defensive against the smaller clubs.

It’s fcuking Newcastle lads, not being tactically outmanoeuvred by Barcelona here.

Criticise Mourinho, 3 man midfield, more attacking drills whatever. The reality is we aren’t good enough to be closer to City. 3rd is about our level and I think that’s where we will finish.