Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

deaddonkey15

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If only there was some kind of ledger or metric for comparing one manager with another; if only we could assess two managers’ careers on the basis of something other than the result of one game.

You were quite happy to dismiss Pochetinno as a top manager on the basis of the first 10 minutes of tonight's game. They're right back in the tie now.

Zico !

Thing is Pochs football is a joy to watch Jose is boring -Ive only been to 6 home games this season atmosphere is flat aswell zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Giggsy11

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Interesting to see the “great” Pochettino’s Spurs being humiliated in Turin. The man’s record of 4 Manager of the Month awards in the last 5 years make him an obvious choice for the hotseat at Old Trafford. Very similar to Alex Ferguson coming from Aberdeen or Jose Mourinho from Chelsea/Real Madrid/Inter Milan/Porto.

The man should be turned away by the security guards at Carrington and not let within 5 miles of the place. People are gas really, fawning over the flavour of the month whoever that might be. Brendan Rodgers, Andre Villas Boas, Phil Brown, Alan Pardew, Rafael Benitez; at least Rafa won the Champions League. Pochettino just looks brooding and collects a Manager of the Month award every 1.25 years.

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If only there was some kind of ledger or metric for comparing one manager with another; if only we could assess two managers’ careers on the basis of something other than the result of one game.

Talk about 2 contradicting posts.

Giggsy11

Forget result, this Spurs play without fear which is joy to watch.

While I'm typing this Aurier ****ed up.

Andrew Beef

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Poch's team away from home against a European heavyweight is taking the game to the opponents, playing entire game in Juventus half, people here doubts him because he didn't win a trophy yet. Some logic that.

He seems like a nice guy but the bottom line is that he has won nothing in the game. Zero. Zip. It was madness to appoint David Moyes and it would be similar madness to appoint Pochettino. The man is completely unproven and has no pedigree. I can’t believe that people are even mentioning him in the same breath as Jose Mourinho, one of the most decorated managers in the history of the game. You couldn’t make it up.

Mantis Toboggan

Zico ! wrote: »

Thing is Pochs football is a joy to watch Jose is boring -Ive only been to 6 home games this season atmosphere is flat aswell zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Atmosphere in old Trafford has been ****e for a long time even under Sir Fergie.

deaddonkey15

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Poch's team away from home against a European heavyweight is taking the game to the opponents, playing entire game in Juventus half, people here doubts him because he didn't win a trophy yet. Some logic that.

Beat Real Madrid 3-1 on the way to topping a group with them and Dortmund. Got more points in that group than we did in our group with CSKA and Basel (who are currently getting smashed at home by City). But no trophies, he must be David Moyes 2.0

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Forget result, this Spurs play without fear which is joy to watch.

While I'm typing this Aurier ****ed up.

One persons without fear is anothers naive???

Time will tell how it works out but Italian teams have history of letting teams take a game to them when they get ahead.

limnam

Zico ! wrote: »

Thing is Pochs football is a joy to watch Jose is boring -Ive only been to 6 home games this season atmosphere is flat aswell zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Be a lot more boring when they're not in the CL next year.

But the fans can watch re-runs of the joyful matches.

Andrew Beef

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If only there was some kind of ledger or metric for comparing one manager with another; if only we could assess two managers’ careers on the basis of something other than the result of one game.

You were quite happy to dismiss Pochetinno as a top manager on the basis of the first 10 minutes of tonight's game. They're right back in the tie now.

No, I’m dismissing him as a candidate for the Manchester United job on the basis that he has never won a trophy. Even suggesting his name is the type of madness that got David Moyes into the hotseat and set the tone for years of underperformance.

Giggsy11

Andrew Beef wrote: »

He seems like a nice guy but the bottom line is that he has won nothing in the game. Zero. Zip. It was madness to appoint David Moyes and it would be similar madness to appoint Pochettino. The man is completely unproven and has no pedigree. I can’t believe that people are even mentioning him in the same breath as Jose Mourinho, one of the most decorated managers in the history of the game. You couldn’t make it up.

Oh dear, for 1 min take out your hear from all the CVs and watch the match and see the result for yourself.

ManUtd appointed the manager who won everything there is to win in multiple leagues, Van Gaal. Spurs appointed unproved Poch. Everyone knows who achieved better results and took the team miles above from where they started.

Poch moulded his team so well that they are competing against Juventus away, whereas Van Gaal's team was awful to watch with pathetic results.

Zico !

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Atmosphere in old Trafford has been ****e for a long time even under Sir Fergie.

No it was better under fergie when we were playing good football

Giggsy11

DM_7 wrote: »

One persons without fear is anothers naive???

Time will tell how it works out but Italian teams have history of letting teams take a game to them when they get ahead.

What about dominating at Anfield which apart from City none of the teams managed?

What about getting superb results against Madird and Dortmund?

It's not as if Juventus have shut down Spurs, Spurs created so many chances. They play with freedom, without any fear believing in their ability.

deaddonkey15

Andrew Beef wrote: »

No, I’m dismissing him as a candidate for the Manchester United job on the basis that he has never won a trophy. Even suggesting his name is the type of madness that got David Moyes into the hotseat and set the tone for years of underperformance.

van Gaal.

Andrew Beef

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Interesting to see the “great” Pochettino’s Spurs being humiliated in Turin. The man’s record of 4 Manager of the Month awards in the last 5 years make him an obvious choice for the hotseat at Old Trafford. Very similar to Alex Ferguson coming from Aberdeen or Jose Mourinho from Chelsea/Real Madrid/Inter Milan/Porto.

The man should be turned away by the security guards at Carrington and not let within 5 miles of the place. People are gas really, fawning over the flavour of the month whoever that might be. Brendan Rodgers, Andre Villas Boas, Phil Brown, Alan Pardew, Rafael Benitez; at least Rafa won the Champions League. Pochettino just looks brooding and collects a Manager of the Month award every 1.25 years.

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If only there was some kind of ledger or metric for comparing one manager with another; if only we could assess two managers’ careers on the basis of something other than the result of one game.

Talk about 2 contradicting posts.

Wow. A whole post setting out Pochettino’s inadequacies with a brief aside regarding tonight’s game, and you focus on the latter.

Iused2likebusts

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Poch's team away from home against a European heavyweight is taking the game to the opponents, playing entire game in Juventus half, people here doubts him because he didn't win a trophy yet. Some logic that.

Some crazy stuff being said in this thread . Poch doesn't have the resources that mourinho has its not a like for like comparison. Poch can't offer the wages Jose can so a player like Sanchez is out of the question , can't have the size of squad that Jose has 24 senior players, can't pay the transfer fees jose can. He also has to contend with players wanting to leave due to the historical size of the club something that Jose won't have to deal with. He hasn't won a trophy is a ridiculous reason to say he isn't suitable for the utd job . That's not to say the job should be available as Jose has done a decent job so far but when the time comes I'd see poch as one of the main targets the board would look to. Comparisons with Phil brown and Moyes are way off the mark.

Giggsy11

Andrew Beef wrote: »

No, I’m dismissing him as a candidate for the Manchester United job on the basis that he has never won a trophy. Even suggesting his name is the type of madness that got David Moyes into the hotseat and set the tone for years of underperformance.

Comparing Poch with David Moyes shows you are so clueless about the work Poch has done. Bit harsh, sorry for that but it's true.

limnam

Andrew Beef wrote: »

No, I’m dismissing him as a candidate for the Manchester United job on the basis that he has never won a trophy. Even suggesting his name is the type of madness that got David Moyes into the hotseat and set the tone for years of underperformance.

Never mind trophies

He's also brought spurs from 2nd in the league to what looks like will be 5th.

Mind boggling.

Giggsy11

Roberto Martinez, Di Matteo won some trophies, they should be in line for the job. Winning mentality.

Andrew Beef

Lest we forget the fact that Pochettino presided over a Devon Loch episode of sorts when Spurs failed to see off flash-in-the-pan Leicester. They should have stepped up when the bigger clubs were all in transition but weren’t up to it.

If McKinsey or Accenture were brought in to advise on the appointment of the next Manchester United manager, I suspect that factors like “previous trophies won”, “previous performances under pressure” and “large transfer budgets managed” might feature on the shopping list.

Had such an approach been adopted on 2013, perhaps a chancer like David Moyes wouldn’t have made it through the front door? Either way, it’s extraordinary to defend Pochettino’s candidacy; why not Brendan Rodgers?

Giggsy11

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Lest we forget the fact that Pochettino presided over a Devon Loch episode of sorts when Spurs failed to see off flash-in-the-pan Leicester. They should have stepped up when the bigger clubs were all in transition but weren’t up to it.

If McKinsey or Accenture were brought in to advise on the appointment of the next Manchester United manager, I suspect that factors like “previous trophies won”, “previous performances under pressure” and “large transfer budgets managed” might feature on the shopping list.

Had such an approach been adopted on 2013, perhaps a chancer like David Moyes wouldn’t have made it through the front door? Either way, it’s extraordinary to defend Pochettino’s candidacy; why not Brendan Rodgers?

How about Van Gaal?

What did Pep win when he was appointed as Barca coach? Did you ever heard about Sacchi?

So Van Gaal's ManUtd was laughably poor, Jose's Chelsea was embarrassingly even worse, Pellegrini's City fell short much before but yeah Poch was a spoofer for not winning when Leicester won the league.

Btw Rodgers should be getting job according to your logic as he has great CV. He is a winner, winning league titles with Celtic.

Hopefully we are looking at Di Matteo and Martinez too, they are both winners.

Giggsy11

Such a shame Juventus are missing Dybala, could have been even better game with him.

Hopefully Juventus wins this convincingly, don't want Spurs to gain momentum.

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

What about dominating at Anfield which apart from City none of the teams managed?

What about getting superb results against Madird and Dortmund?

It's not as if Juventus have shut down Spurs, Spurs created so many chances. They play with freedom, without any fear believing in their ability.

What about them? You can't just cherry pick a few performances and ignore the rest if you want a full discussion. I can counter about losing at OT or that they drew at Anfield (the same as United) despite playing in a supposed attractive style. The actual results are 4 points for United and 4 for Spurs.

Overall the results or performances of this season don't compare to what Jose has actually done as a manager in his career. That is dismissive on one hand but relevant on another.

The narrative at times on here is that actual results should be ignored while brave performances hold more weight. I am not saying that is you but your own examples included games they did not win. Leicester were fearless two seasons ago and won the league, Spurs were fearless and won nothing. Again that is dismissive but done to show how selecting only something you want to highlight is unfair.

If the time comes where Jose needs to go and a new manager is sought then style of performances will be something United consider when looking for a replacement. But success due to performances will trump style.

Poch (and Spurs) success at developing Kane or Eriksen are more impressive to me than an actual method of play. I can't ignore that the underlying expectations are lower so do have to wonder how easily that can be replicated? That goes for fearless play as well.


Edit: I should add the 'but trophies' angle put forward by others does not make sense either. Actual progression of a team and in competitions should not be ignored either in a full discussion.

Andrew Beef

Van Gaal was yesterday’s man when he was appointed. None of your specifics (e.g. Pep) disprove the assertion that when looking for a potential manager of a large and successful club, it’s probably wise to restrict your search to managers who’ve won things. And back to Pep, I’m not convinced of his greatness.

Lest we forget, we appointed David Moyes, a manager who had won zero trophies, a man with no experience of managing superstar players and no experience of managing a large transfer budget as manager of Manchester United. That was a criminal decision. This talk about Pochettino is also criminal; the man has achieved nothing in the game; he could be this year’s Phil Brown, just without the singing on the pitch (yet). In time he may prove to be the real deal. But as things stand, he is at best mediocre and possibly a failed manager on the basis that he has never won a trophy.

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtdReport_/status/963471134527315970

Mmmmm

AC Milan - 7.
Bayern Munich - 5.
Barcelona - 5.
Liverpool - 5.
Ajax - 4.
Internazionale - 3.
Manchester United - 3.
Juventus - 2.

Imagine how many times Liverpool would have won it if only they were a big club eh Mick?

Come to think of it, if I was manager of a big club who hadn't won the big prize as often as Ajax I too would be desperately trying to deflect from that fact

Giggsy11

DM_7 wrote: »

What about them? You can't just cherry pick a few performances and ignore the rest if you want a full discussion. I can counter about losing at OT or that they drew at Anfield (the same as United) despite playing in a supposed attractive style. The actual results are 4 points for United and 4 for Spurs.
.

I have already posted my points on the rest of the post, so won't be repeating it agian and again.

Now coming to this post, what about them?

It's the response to this post.

DM_7 wrote: »

One persons without fear is anothers naive???

Time will tell how it works out but Italian teams have history of letting teams take a game to them when they get ahead.

Spurs taking the game to opponents, even against stronger opponents is not something that happens rarely to just say "Italian teams have history".

I was commenting on how good Spurs are playing, you replied with Italian team thing, so I mentioned recent big games they have dominated. Not sure where I have picked and chose what I wanted.

DM_7

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Van Gaal was yesterday’s man when he was appointed. None of your specifics (e.g. Pep) disprove the assertion that when looking for a potential manager of a large and successful club, it’s probably wise to restrict your search to managers who’ve won things. And back to Pep, I’m not convinced of his greatness.

Lest we forget, we appointed David Moyes, a manager who had won zero trophies, a man with no experience of managing superstar players and no experience of managing a large transfer budget as manager of Manchester United. That was a criminal decision. This talk about Pochettino is also criminal; the man has achieved nothing in the game; he is Phil Brown without the singing on the pitch (yet).

That last paragraph is way too far the other side. Phil Brown? How can anyone take you serious with that comparison.

Giggsy11

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Van Gaal was yesterday’s man when he was appointed. None of your specifics (e.g. Pep) disprove the assertion that when looking for a potential manager of a large and successful club, it’s probably wise to restrict your search to managers who’ve won things. And back to Pep, I’m not convinced of his greatness.

.

Oh thank you. Saved lot of time for me.

Ninthlife

I cant wait for the talk of Jose being replaced by Pochettino to stop.

Page upon page of assumptions and what ifs. Has anyone any real news with regard to Manchester United. Even one of Lingards snap chat vids would be welcomed now

Giggsy11

Ninthlife wrote: »

I cant wait for the talk of Jose being replaced by Pochettino to stop.

Page upon page of assumptions and what ifs. Has anyone any real news with regard to Manchester United. Even one of Lingards snap chat vids would be welcomed now

Btw before anyone accuse me of this, I never said we should sack Jose. I said if/when Jose goes, we should seriously consider Poch. Not Sack Jose, hire Poch.

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I have already posted my points on the rest of the post, so won't be repeating it agian and again.

Now coming to this post, what about them?

It's the response to this post.


Spurs taking the game to opponents, even against stronger opponents is not something that happens rarely to just say "Italian teams have history".

I was commenting on how good Spurs are playing, you replied with Italian team thing, so I mentioned recent big games they have dominated. Not sure where I have picked and chose what I wanted.

You picked games they 'dominated' so to speak but ignored the ones they didn't, that is why I said picking and choosing. My Italian generalisation was a comment on Juve rather than Spurs.

Anyway, I took your poat to be part of the greater discussion going on rather than just a comment on the game. Clearly that was wrong as I know you would not normally ignore actual results when talking about a manager.

deaddonkey15

Ninthlife wrote: »

I cant wait for the talk of Jose being replaced by Pochettino to stop.

Page upon page of assumptions and what ifs. Has anyone any real news with regard to Manchester United. Even one of Lingards snap chat vids would be welcomed now

It's probably worth it's own thread at this stage.

Phil Brown's Pochetinno's Tottenham back level with Juve after going 2-0 down. We could have done with this attitude against Newcastle on Sunday.

Lord TSC

Not the only is the discussion of Jose getting the sack utterly idiotic, and based on the fact those talking about it have wanted Jose sacked since today he and are just looking for ANY reason to do it (I've noted the "he's defo off to PSG" narrative has vanished....) it also misses a vital point.

If Jose is sacked, it will be because we fell down to fifth, in which case...why would Poch leave a club that has finished above our multiple seasons in a row? Why leave the project he had going for, being generous, a sideways step in that case.

Trigger

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's probably worth it's own thread at this stage.

Phil Brown's Pochetinno's Tottenham back level with Juve after going 2-0 down. We could have done with this attitude against Newcastle on Sunday.

No, no it’s not! Not even close!

Drumpot

Spurs game reminds me of united v Juve 1999. United caught cold in first 12 minutes and 2-0 down! The rest is history !

Ninthlife

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Btw before anyone accuse me of this, I never said we should sack Jose. I said if/when Jose goes, we should seriously consider Poch. Not Sack Jose, hire Poch.

Not directed at anyone in particular but for 48 hours its being discussed on how we should replace a very successful manager on the basis of some poor performances.

I think when Jose does go Poch will be at Madrid.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not the only is the discussion of Jose getting the sack utterly idiotic, and based on the fact those talking about it have wanted Jose sacked since today he and are just looking for ANY reason to do it (I've noted the "he's defo off to PSG" narrative has vanished....) it also misses a vital point.

If Jose is sacked, it will be because we fell down to fifth, in which case...why would Poch leave a club that has finished above our multiple seasons in a row? Why leave the project he had going for, being generous, a sideways step in that case.

I can guarantee the answer to this:

“Becoz Man Utd yo”

DM_7

Ninthlife wrote: »

Not directed at anyone in particular but for 48 hours its being discussed on how we should replace a very successful manager on the basis of some poor performances.

I think when Jose does go Poch will be at Madrid.

A lot have talked about, should Jose go, the type of manager they would look at, not that a change should be made.

Why is that so bad?

Giggsy11

DM_7 wrote: »

You picked games they 'dominated' so to speak but ignored the ones they didn't, that is why I said picking and choosing. My Italian generalisation was a comment on Juve rather than Spurs.

Anyway, I took your poat to be part of the greater discussion going on rather than just a comment on the game. Clearly that was wrong as I know you would not normally ignore actual results when talking about a manager.

If you improve players and performances then results will follow. Might be bit late but it will follow.

Also Spurs are just 5 points behind with easier fixtures remaining, they finished miles ahead of us last season.

They are improving every season, there will be ups and downs in the league position as there are 6 very good teams but the improvements in their performance every season is very obvious.

Last season they couldn't get out of their group, this season they topped their group that had Madrid and Dortmund, now they are in superb position against Juventus.

Results are important but results without solid foundations won't last. Results with better foundations like Pep or even Poch will have long term benefits.

Check the winners of top 5 leagues and Cl winners, there is one common thing among them. They all play aggressive and good football.

Ninthlife

astradave wrote: »

I can guarantee the answer to this:

“Becoz Man Utd yo”

Wait till Giggs wins 2 games in a row as Wales manager and there will be a clamour for him to be appointed immediately

bangkok

Hococop wrote: »

We still want poch?

lol, you posted that after 9mins of the game, couldnt wait til near the end.

Look at spurs now, taking the game to Juventus in their own back yard

Ninthlife

DM_7 wrote: »

A lot have talked about, should Jose go, the type of manager they would look at, not that a change should be made.

Why is that so bad?

Its page after page of fawning over a rivals team manager. There was even a post saying oh look at Spurs thats how we should be playing.

Very Moyes like statement of 'We should aim to be Spurs'

Not for me.

Manchester United the most successful team in Premier League history. Its other teams that are trying to emulate us and what we have acheived not the opposite.

54and56

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not the only is the discussion of Jose getting the sack utterly idiotic, and based on the fact those talking about it have wanted Jose sacked since today he and are just looking for ANY reason to do it (I've noted the "he's defo off to PSG" narrative has vanished....) it also misses a vital point.

If Jose is sacked, it will be because we fell down to fifth, in which case...why would Poch leave a club that has finished above our multiple seasons in a row? Why leave the project he had going for, being generous, a sideways step in that case.

In all fairness Lord TSC there is a glass ceiling at Spurs (Wage limits, Sponsorship, fanbase) which Pooch is probably pushing up against.

If he wins something this season it might renew the project but he's an ambitious manager who plays attractive, effective football and his teams always seen to be very well prepared.

Sure Utd would be a big step up with more pressure but think of the resources he'd have. If he can do X with Spurs there's a good chance he'd do more with Utd and more than what he's doing with Spurs means genuinely challenging fit the PL, CL etc.

That's why he'd leave but there isn't a vacancy and Jose just signed a contract extension so it looks like it's an academic argument at this point in time.

limnam

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Check the winners of top 5 leagues and Cl winners, there is one common thing among them. They all play aggressive and good football.

Jose's Inter think they did the treble that year.

You mean that sort of aggressive good football or another type?

Chelsea's PL wins, that type of aggressive good football or another type?

The Madrid Titles, that type of aggressive good football or another type?

His Porto CL winning team, that type of aggressive good football or another type?

DM_7

Ninthlife wrote: »

Its page after page of fawning over a rivals team manager. There was even a post saying oh look at Spurs thats how we should be playing.

Very Moyes like statement of 'We should aim to be Spurs'

Not for me.

Manchester United the most successful team in Premier League history. Its other teams that are trying to emulate us and what we have acheived not the opposite.

I think you will find the current Manchester United are nothing to emulate which is why the discussion happens. What United achieved before means as much as what Liverpool did or Arsenal in their past to their current team.

Giggsy11

limnam wrote: »

Jose's Inter think they did the treble that year.

You mean that sort of aggressive good football or another type?

Chelsea's PL wins, that type of aggressive good football or another type?

The Madrid Titles, that type of aggressive good football or another type?

His Porto CL winning team, that type of aggressive good football or another type?

Are we talking about 2000s now? You think football stay the same?

Robson99

limnam wrote: »

Never mind trophies

He's also brought spurs from 2nd in the league to what looks like will be 5th.

Mind boggling.

Jose is doing his best to do the same

bangkok

some result for City, to go to Basle and not only get a result, but the tie is over. Worthy champions league favourites and hard to see nayone stop them

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If you improve players and performances then results will follow. Might be bit late but it will follow.

Also Spurs are just 5 points behind with easier fixtures remaining, they finished miles ahead of us last season.

They are improving every season, there will be ups and downs in the league position as there are 6 very good teams but the improvements in their performance every season is very obvious.

Last season they couldn't get out of their group, this season they topped their group that had Madrid and Dortmund, now they are in superb position against Juventus.

Results are important but results without solid foundations won't last. Results with better foundations like Pep or even Poch will have long term benefits.

Check the winners of top 5 leagues and Cl winners, there is one common thing among them. They all play aggressive and good football.

While it only touches on some things you could go further into, I like the way the post talks about something tangible (year on year progression etc) rather than just a style of play.

Lord TSC

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

In all fairness Lord TSC there is a glass ceiling at Spurs (Wage limits, Sponsorship, fanbase) which Pooch is probably pushing up against.

If he wins something this season it might renew the project but he's an ambitious manager who plays attractive, effective football and his teams always seen to be very well prepared.

Sure Utd would be a big step up with more pressure but think of the resources he'd have. If he can do X with Spurs there's a good chance he'd do more with Utd and more than what he's doing with Spurs means genuinely challenging fit the PL, CL etc.

That's why he'd leave but there isn't a vacancy and Jose just signed a contract extension so it looks like it's an academic argument at this point in time.

He'd have more resources but be looking to completly rebuild the team to suit his own philosophy and his own style. At Spurs, he might not be given the same resources, but the team is his, is doing better than ours (in this hypothetical), so thus wouldn't need the same investment.

I just think in the case Spurs finish above us again, he'd as happily stay with the team he's built, rather than starting the process again at a trigger happy club who've had three managers in five years....