Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

https://twitter.com/Ammadutd/status/964044792220078080

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/964041840168259584

Like we have all been saying in here but Jose just doesnt see it

pjohnson

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Devils_Latest/status/964041840168259584

Mourinho should listen to his manager I guess.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Mourinho should listen to his manager I guess.

Who? Duncan or Paul? :pac:

ericzeking

That 433 formation LVG used to play with Carrick at a base, Fellaini up the left and Herrera on the right would suit Pogba down to the ground.
There was an emphasis on triangular combinations too, so say on the right you had Herrera, Mata and Valencia, that worked very well for a while.

Put Shaw at LB and you have a devastating looking left hand side combo of Pogba, Shaw and Martial.

You still have 3 CM to drop back when defending then.

pjohnson

I cant imagine many managers allowing the player select formation/tactics. That reeks of ego tbh. Doubt Fergie would have tolerated being told what to do by say Veron?

Auroras_encore

Ha a player choosing formations now, only at United would you get away that

yabadabado

pjohnson wrote: »

I cant imagine many managers allowing the player select formation/tactics. That reeks of ego tbh. Doubt Fergie would have tolerated being told what to do by say Veron?

That's going on the assumption that this talk actually happened between Pogba and Jose.
Id guess the tweet is just putting 2 and 2 together, to a lot of people it's looking the most likely way to get the best of Pogba.
Problem at the moment is I don't see anyone to take that right cm role.

pjohnson

yabadabado wrote: »

That's going on the assumption that this talk actually happened between Pogba and Jose.
Id guess the tweet is just putting 2 and 2 together, to a lot of people it's looking the most likely way to get the best of Pogba.
Problem at the moment is I don't see anyone to take that right cm role.

I would hope it never happened tbh.

McTominay probably the best formwise. Or put Carrick deep Matic right Pogba left

Lord TSC

A player is perfectly entitled to want a manager to play to his strengths. Provided Pogba accepts Jose's decision, whichever way it goes, and continues to play to the best of his ability regardless, then a player wanting that doesn't really matter. A player can respectfully ask a manager to consider adjusting tactics or whatever, and respectfully outline his thought process.

The issue is when the players want it and stop playing if they don't get their way.

yabadabado

yabadabado wrote: »

That's going on the assumption that this talk actually happened between Pogba and Jose.
Id guess the tweet is just putting 2 and 2 together, to a lot of people it's looking the most likely way to get the best of Pogba.
Problem at the moment is I don't see anyone to take that right cm role.

McTominey or Herrera

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Giggsy11

There is nothing wrong in player asking manager to play in certain role. Players are not robots and they don't communicate via forums so they get into arguments that ends up in circles.

Players and coaches discusses everything, from training to tactics to diet, everything. So it won't be wrong if Pogba raised concern with how we set up.

Before, Rooney and Carrick met Van Gaal to improve dressing room atmosphere and offer some help on so many things.

Speaking on Thursday, Carrick explained that he and Rooney felt that they had to “do something about” their form.

“We just spoke to him as the senior players, to have a conversation to say that everyone wanted to be better,” he told ESPN.

“We weren’t having a great time in terms of results and it happens to a lot of teams, but you just have to do something about it.

“It was a fair conversation, nobody went in there fighting or anything, and it wasn’t really a big deal. It probably sounded like a big deal, but it happens all the time at clubs all over the country.

“Sometimes a manager will pull you aside in training or in his office, but it just so happened that me and Wayne went to chat to him. It got built up to quite a big thing, but that’s just the way it is.”

bangkok

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong in player asking manager to play in certain role. Players are not robots and they don't communicate via forums so they get into arguments that ends up in circles.

Players and coaches discusses everything, from training to tactics to diet, everything. So it won't be wrong if Pogba raised concern with how we set up.

Before, Rooney and Carrick met Van Gaal to improve dressing room atmosphere and offer some help on so many things.

And you have to remember, the players will be sitting at home last night and tuesday night watching city win 4-0, liverpool win 5-0 and spurs going to juve and getting a 2-2 draw and they will be thinking why cant we do that, or what can we change in our team to try and achieve a result like that. Its only human nature

DM_7

The implication here is that Pogba is not doing what is asked of him now.

It is an easy story to write about.

While Pogba as a third midfield player might suit him best, Jose has a right to ask him to do a job that Jose thinks is best for the team right now.

Pogba's performances are shocking lately, he should be able to play beside Matic. The issue may be more application than ability.

Jose said a lot last week including this: “I think this country produced a lot of amazing box-to-box players, I had the pleasure to coach some of them, but I think nowadays with some pundits, some agents, some family members, I think the concept of the box-to-box is changing a little bit".

Dropping in agents and family into his speech there cannot be an accident?

bangkok

DM_7 wrote: »

The implication here is that Pogba is not doing what is asked of him now.

It is an easy story to write about.

While Pogba as a third midfield player might suit him best, Jose has a right to ask him to do a job that Jose thinks is best for the team right now.

Pogba's performances are shocking lately, he should be able to play beside Matic. The issue may be more application than ability.

Jose said a lot last week including this: “I think this country produced a lot of amazing box-to-box players, I had the pleasure to coach some of them, but I think nowadays with some pundits, some agents, some family members, I think the concept of the box-to-box is changing a little bit".

Dropping in agents and family into his speech there cannot be an accident?

As fergie once said, his agent is a piece of ****

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

McTominey or Herrera

You could even try Blind, to be honest. Play him as an anchor, move Matic to the more box-to-box role. Lindelof could be played in an anchor role as well.

There are a couple of options we could try out.

Carrick could play that role too.

Matic is good on the ball and good an opening passing lanes so I'd have no issue putting him in a more progressive CM role with a more defensive player behind him.

Giggsy11

DM_7 wrote: »

The implication here is that Pogba is not doing what is asked of him now.

It is an easy story to write about.

While Pogba as a third midfield player might suit him best, Jose has a right to ask him to do a job that Jose thinks is best for the team right now.

Pogba's performances are shocking lately, he should be able to play beside Matic. The issue may be more application than ability.

Jose said a lot last week including this: “I think this country produced a lot of amazing box-to-box players, I had the pleasure to coach some of them, but I think nowadays with some pundits, some agents, some family members, I think the concept of the box-to-box is changing a little bit".

Dropping in agents and family into his speech there cannot be an accident?

Yeah talking about agents and friends was weird as I don't remember them saying anything about Pogba.

Also Jose was right in saying many box to box players were produced here but he never restricted midfielders playing and outnumbers them. When Jose joined Chelsea he brought the concept of outnumbering the midfielders to gain advantage. He stared with 4-3-3 which brought best out of Lampard.

Any another manager might have played 4-4-2 with Lampard there by making him half the player.

Even at Chelsea second term, he played Oscar as #10 who dropped deep to play between 8 and 10.

At Inter he played 2 defensive minded players and then Sneijder.

At Madrid he mixed up formations and personal a lot depending on opponents. Probably that's the only time where he played 2 midfielder system who weren't defense minded. He also played Alonso and Kheidra lot of times.

What Jose is doing might be what he thinks is the best for the team but I really disagree with that.

SlickRic

Couple of posts deleted there.

Please stop the personal squabbles. Take it to PM if you have to.

Thanks.

TheDoc

pjohnson wrote: »

I cant imagine many managers allowing the player select formation/tactics. That reeks of ego tbh. Doubt Fergie would have tolerated being told what to do by say Veron?

Normally the managers identify their key players and build the formation around it.

At present we have just dropped Pogba, and now Sanchez, into his pretty unimaginative 4-2-3-1, failing to harness anyones strengths and causing more problems then solutions.

Now we have Martial playing out wide right for the first time in his career, completely throwing him out of kilter when he was hitting some nice form.

Probably doesn't help the narrative that on the occasions he has played 4-3-3, with three actual midfielders, we smoke the opposition, and Pogba was immense

I'm just not sure why he's not trying it, stubbornness, not wanting to show he was wrong, I jsut don't get it. It's limp as **** at the moment.

Need some inventiveness in what we are doing, not just trying the same things over and over and having sporadic performances here and there.

Trigger

I wish Slick Ric was in my valentines list...

Liam McPoyle

TheDoc wrote: »

Normally the managers identify their key players and build the formation around it.

At present we have just dropped Pogba, and now Sanchez, into his pretty unimaginative 4-2-3-1, failing to harness anyones strengths and causing more problems then solutions.

Now we have Martial playing out wide right for the first time in his career, completely throwing him out of kilter when he was hitting some nice form.

Probably doesn't help the narrative that on the occasions he has played 4-3-3, with three actual midfielders, we smoke the opposition, and Pogba was immense

I'm just not sure why he's not trying it, stubbornness, not wanting to show he was wrong, I jsut don't get it. It's limp as **** at the moment.

Need some inventiveness in what we are doing, not just trying the same things over and over and having sporadic performances here and there.

Yep.

We clearly have the players, Jose just has to use them correctly, Even if we are light in CM there are options there. We need to play to the strenghts of players like Pogba, not play exposing his weakness.

Challenging few weeks coming up.

DM_7

Business Cat wrote: »

Yep.

We clearly have the players, Jose just has to use them correctly, Even if we are light in CM there are options there. We need to play to the strenghts of players like Pogba, not play exposing his weakness.

Challenging few weeks coming up.

But what of Pogba? The implication that he is, by choice, not trying to do what is asked of him? That Jose believes he has more to give, can be better.

With big games ahead, there is merit in having a player like Pogba closer to defence as he has the ability to take in the ball and get it to a guy like Sanchez. There is merit in telling Pogba he can be better than the easier position, he will play there when it is right for the group, but now an engaged Pogba beside Matic might be what Jose sees as best.

I say this as someone strong in asking for Pogba to be a third midfield player to get best out of him but that may not be today. If Pogba showed better application then United could have an extra attacker instead of Herrera coming in. It is not like the alternate to Pogba beside Matic is a great option.

bangkok

DM_7 wrote: »

But what of Pogba? The implication that he is, by choice, not trying to do what is asked of him? That Jose believes he has more to give, can be better.

With big games ahead, there is merit in having a player like Pogba closer to defence as he has the ability to take in the ball and get it to a guy like Sanchez. There is merit in telling Pogba he can be better than the easier position, he will play there when it is right for the group, but now an engaged Pogba beside Matic might be what Jose sees as best.

I say this as someone strong in asking for Pogba to be a third midfield player to get best out of him but that may not be today. If Pogba showed better application then United could have an extra attacker instead of Herrera coming in. It is not like the alternate to Pogba beside Matic is a great option.

But pogba is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, why would you want to play him closer to our defence? Just doesnt make sense

StringerBell

bennyineire wrote: »

Eh just the 2 Bundeslegas with Dortmund but sure I suppose that doesn’t count

I have no idea how you managed to get that so badly wrong...

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

DM_7 wrote: »

But what of Pogba? The implication that he is, by choice, not trying to do what is asked of him? That Jose believes he has more to give, can be better.

With big games ahead, there is merit in having a player like Pogba closer to defence as he has the ability to take in the ball and get it to  a guy like Sanchez. There is merit in telling Pogba he can be better than the easier position, he will play there when it is right for the group, but now an engaged Pogba beside Matic might be what Jose sees as best.

I say this as someone strong in asking for Pogba to be a third midfield player to get best out of him but that may not be today. If Pogba showed better application then United could have an extra attacker instead of Herrera coming in. It is not like the alternate to Pogba beside Matic is a great option.

But pogba is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, why would you want to play him closer to our defence? Just doesnt make sense

Is he really one of the best attacking midfielder's in the world I find that hard to believe, Attacking midfielders score goals his more in a league is 8 and that was in a Juve side that walked Seria A ,
Look at the other top 6 side attacking midfielders and Pogba doesn't come close, Silva , KDB, Eirkson , Ali , Ozil , Hazard, Couthino (when he was at Liverpool they don't have one now)
He's a world class footballer but certainly isn't one of the best Attacking midfielders in the world , He wouldn't replace any of the above in the attacking midfield position ,
He's more of a roaming midfielder than an attacking one,

DM_7

bangkok wrote: »

But pogba is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, why would you want to play him closer to our defence? Just doesnt make sense

So he can get the ball and release a player like Sanchez. Like I already said.

StringerBell

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Not much change in the running order as always

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Mars would usually be in there, as well as SlickRic and Gav

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Is he really one of the best attacking midfielder's in the world I find that hard to believe, Attacking midfielders score goals his more in a league is 8 and that was in a Juve side that walked Seria A ,
Look at the other top 6 side attacking midfielders and Pogba doesn't come close, Silva , KDB, Eirkson , Ali , Ozil , Hazard, Couthino (when he was at Liverpool they don't have one now)
He's a world class footballer but certainly isn't one of the best Attacking midfielders in the world , He wouldn't replace any of the above in the attacking midfield position ,
He's more of a roaming midfielder than an attacking one,

Imo he is better than the lot of them apart from de bruyne but then again how would any of them do as attacking midfielder if they were asked to play as part of a midfield 2

bangkok

DM_7 wrote: »

So he can get the ball and release a player like Sanchez. Like I already said.

Carrick could do that and would do a better job of it as wel

StringerBell

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Is he really one of the best attacking midfielder's in the world I find that hard to believe, Attacking midfielders score goals his more in a league is 8 and that was in a Juve side that walked Seria A ,
Look at the other top 6 side attacking midfielders and Pogba doesn't come close, Silva , KDB, Eirkson , Ali , Ozil , Hazard, Couthino (when he was at Liverpool they don't have one now)
He's a world class footballer but certainly isn't one of the best Attacking midfielders in the world , He wouldn't replace any of the above in the attacking midfield position ,
He's more of a roaming midfielder than an attacking one,

Depends on how you class players I suppose, most people would probably have considered Iniesta an attacking midfielder, whereas you would obviously class him as a roaming one, though you do have Ali classed as an attacking one by the looks of it.....

I think Pogba being a number 10 is not utilising his strengths correctly, if we are to continue the FM terminology I guess I would class him as an attack minded RPM or APM even. He is best with a free role to influence the attack as he sees fit, he is certainly one of the most attacking midfield players in world football in terms of his creativity.

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Is he really one of the best attacking midfielder's in the world I find that hard to believe, Attacking midfielders score goals his more in a league is 8 and that was in a Juve side that walked Seria A ,
Look at the other top 6 side attacking midfielders and Pogba doesn't come close, Silva , KDB, Eirkson , Ali , Ozil , Hazard, Couthino (when he was at Liverpool they don't have one now)
He's a world class footballer but certainly isn't one of the best Attacking midfielders in the world , He wouldn't replace any of the above in the attacking midfield position ,
He's more of a roaming midfielder than an attacking one,

Imo he is better than the lot of them apart from de bruyne but then again how would any of them do as attacking midfielder if they were asked to play as part of a midfield 2

Would you really prefer him in the attacking midfield roll over any of them ?
You my friend need to take of the rose tinted glasses, He has never had one season better than any of them , literally,
He's better than all but KDB in a midfield two but your saying he one of the attacking midfielders in the world when he is NOT , there is no evidence at all to back this up , When has he ever had a season as an attacking midfielder that he has done better than any of the above ,

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Would you really prefer him in the attacking midfield roll over any of them ?
You my friend need to take of the rose tinted glasses, He has never had one season better than any of them , literally,
He's better than all but KDB in a midfield two but your saying he one of the attacking midfielders in the world when he is NOT , there is no evidence at all to back this up , When has he ever had a season as an attacking midfielder that he has done better than any of the above ,

You must have missed his 4 years when he played at juventus

Pogba in the Juve team
It's not rocket science lads (What's funny is this was near the same team that played Everton away)
You can mix and match between McTominey & Herrera same with Rashford, Lingard & Martial ect but the spine of the team stays the same.
If I was to line that up to the Utd Squad with the best available and all fit:

De Gea

Valencia Jones Baily Shaw

McTominey Matic Pogba

Sanchez Lukaku Martial

StringerBell

You are using only goals to determine that though as if it is the main thrust of an attacking midfielder, this is obviously wrong.

Also when you put him up against KDB there is not much difference statistically tbf, well there wasn't up until the last couple of weeks I haven't checked lately.

Chances created is a good area to look at and then go into the types of chances, you can't really fault a guy who creates a good chance and a teammate fails to convert it.

yourdeadwright

StringerBell wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Is he really one of the best attacking midfielder's in the world I find that hard to believe, Attacking midfielders score goals his more in a league is 8 and that was in a Juve side that walked Seria A ,
Look at the other top 6 side attacking midfielders and Pogba doesn't come close, Silva , KDB, Eirkson , Ali , Ozil , Hazard, Couthino (when he was at Liverpool they don't have one now)
He's a world class footballer but certainly isn't one of the best Attacking midfielders in the world , He wouldn't replace any of the above in the attacking midfield position ,
He's more of a roaming midfielder than an attacking one,

Depends on how you class players I suppose, most people would probably have considered Iniesta an attacking midfielder, whereas you would obviously class him as a roaming one, though you do have Ali classed as an attacking one by the looks of it.....

I think Pogba being a number 10 is not utilising his strengths correctly, if we are to continue the FM terminology I guess I would class him as an attack minded RPM or APM even. He is best with a free role to influence the attack as he sees fit, he is certainly one of the most attacking midfield players in world football in terms of his creativity.

Ye Ali is without doubt an attack midfielder, he spend most of his game trying to play off Kane,
I think Pogba is not a 10 , a 10 is some one who dictates a games or at least the attacks in a game, Pogba comes in and out of a game, he's almost the definition of a 3rd midfielder, He's got world class parts to his game but the positional sense is missing,
I think its crazy Jose signed him without really knowing where to play him ,
Also the mention of Agent and family in a recent interview is not by chance Jose is clearly letting people know Pogba is being influenced by a 3rd party , Nothing Jose say's is by chance,

Trigger

Pogba is not an AM he is a box to box, by not allowing him to come closer to the defence you are taking away 2 of his best attributes.

1. His ability to take the ball from the defence and drive forward thru the press be it passing around it or holding players off and moving through them.

2. His fast direct balls to the attacking 3 from deep..

To label him an AM is actually an injustice on him as he is much more than that

yourdeadwright

StringerBell wrote: »

You are using only goals to determine that though as if it is the main thrust of an attacking midfielder, this is obviously wrong.

Also when you put him up against KDB there is not much difference statistically tbf, well there wasn't up until the last couple of weeks I haven't checked lately.

Chances created is a good area to look at and then go into the types of chances, you can't really fault a guy who creates a good chance and a teammate fails to convert it.

To be fair that almost sums up what i'm saying as KDB has been dropped further back and isn't really playing as an attacking midfielder this season ,

pjohnson

StringerBell wrote: »

I think Pogba being a number 10 is not utilising his strengths correctly, if we are to continue the FM terminology I guess I would class him as an attack minded RPM or APM even. He is best with a free role to influence the attack as he sees fit, he is certainly one of the most attacking midfield players in world football in terms of his creativity.

What the fúck fancy áss formations are you using? :pac:

yourdeadwright

astradave wrote: »

Pogba is not an AM he is a box to box, by not allowing him to come closer to the defence you are taking away 2 of his best attributes.

1. His ability to take the ball from the defence and drive forward thru the press be it passing around it or holding players off and moving through them.

2. His fast direct balls to the attacking 3 from deep..

To label him an AM is actually an injustice on him as he is much more than that

Id agree with this,

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Would you really prefer him in the attacking midfield roll over any of them ?
You my friend need to take of the rose tinted glasses, He has never had one season better than any of them , literally,
He's better than all but KDB in a midfield two but your saying he one of the attacking midfielders in the world when he is NOT , there is no evidence at all to back this up , When has he ever had a season as an attacking midfielder that he has done better than any of the above ,

You must have missed his 4 years when he played at juventus

No eh I seen them he played left of a 3 man midfield and allowed roam same spot he's asking to be played now ,not as an AM , comments like this make me laugh you obviously never watched him yourself , The guys has never been a AM in his life, ,

Cantona's Collars

All we need is for Jose to indulge Pogba a bit instead of shoehorning him into a set position.
He's more dangerous when he wanders around the pitch and dictates the play.
Look at when we had Ronaldo in the team, Ferguson indulged him as he knew how dangerous he was to the opposition when he got the ball.

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No eh I seen them he played left of a 3 man midfield and allowed roam same spot he's asking to be played now ,not as an AM , comments like this make me laugh you obviously never watched him yourself , The guys has never been a AM in his life, ,

Did you see spurs game or newcastle game or majority of the games where he was in a 2 with matic?

StringerBell

astradave wrote: »

Pogba is not an AM he is a box to box, by not allowing him to come closer to the defence you are taking away 2 of his best attributes.

1. His ability to take the ball from the defence and drive forward thru the press be it passing around it or holding players off and moving through them.

2. His fast direct balls to the attacking 3 from deep..

To label him an AM is actually an injustice on him as he is much more than that

Yep he is much much more than a 10.

TheDoc

pjohnson wrote: »

What the fúck fancy áss formations are you using? :pac:

Pogba fires many rounds per minute

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

All we need is for Jose to indulge Pogba a bit instead of shoehorning him into a set position.
He's more dangerous when he wanders around the pitch and dictates the play.
Look at when we had Ronaldo in the team, Ferguson indulged him as he knew how dangerous he was to the opposition when he got the ball.

But in order for this to be effective we have to have another player to ensure the grunt work is done in the case that when Pogba tasks those risk and occasionally fails then the space is covered by the RCM.

No Risk, no reward.

And ultimately we are wasting his talent.

yourdeadwright

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

All we need is for Jose to indulge Pogba a bit instead of shoehorning him into a set position.
He's more dangerous when he wanders around the pitch and dictates the play.
Look at when we had Ronaldo in the team, Ferguson indulged him as he knew how dangerous he was to the opposition when he got the ball.

The problem Jose has, is he is a safety first manager, Also this isn't Juve and Seria A where the opposition are a lot weaker,
If he play in his desired role left of the midfielder 3 and roams about and Sanchez plays left wing there's trouble , Alexis works really hard but he isn't disciplined he more so chases the ball ,Mangers would straight away look to nick the ball and straight away attack the left side, Young would be left alone a lot ,
Matic can't cover for both Pogba and Alexis on that side so this is the problem  , a lot of the time Juve went 3 5 2, so the wing back on the left and extra CB would move left and help cover that part of the pitch , Jose isn't keen cause the opposition in England are fair better than Italy ,

StringerBell

Ronaldo was told to be the outball, that was a tactical decision by Fergie, not to straddle him much defensive duty just to leave him be at his deadliest to have the opposition need to worry and take him into consideration at all teams like when they had an attacking corner/free kick etc It disrupted the opponent in an attacking sense as well as them having to worry about him defensively.

yourdeadwright

bangkok wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No eh I seen them he played left of a 3 man midfield and allowed roam same spot he's asking to be played now ,not as an AM , comments like this make me laugh you obviously never watched him yourself , The guys has never been a AM in his life, ,

Did you see spurs game or newcastle game or majority of the games where he was in a 2 with matic?

Yes and he was awful what's your point  ? I'm saying he's not an attacking midfielder ,he's more of a roaming midfielder like he was at Juve,
He was in Seria A team of the years 3 years in a row as the left of a midfield 3 that his favoured position but Jose won't play him there,