The big leagues are boring

inforfun

Are actually boring as **** as it comes to champions

Germany



England



Spain



Italy, actually for the first time in years looks like it will be a close finish



Now i like football and i like good players but where do in 3 of the 4 countries get the fans of the "other" teams their fun?

Last season, Feyenoord were on top of the league from day 1 till the end but were never really out of reach for the competition and so it ended up a very exciting season. Especially for myself.

Each of these leagues will have a number 4 finisher directly added to the group stage of the CL. For what? For managing to finish 25\30 points behind the champions?
In the mean time, the Dutch champions will have to play qualifiers.

If there was ever a bubble that deserves bursting.

Jayop

The last time there was back to back premier league champions was in 2009.

In the 8 seasons since then there have been 4 different champions, Chelsea x3, City x2, United x1, Leicester x1.

There's been 8 different teams in the top 4.

Arsenal 7
City 7
Chelsea 6
United 5
Spurs 4
Liverpool 2
Leicester 1

The league has never been more open than the last few years. This season is a strange one and the league was over before Christmas, but I wouldn't say that it's a boring league.

osarusan

Scotland's where it's at for razor-tight, unpredictable title races.

rekluse

Italy pretty interesting this year, expect Juve to nick it as usual though.

Oat23

I'm programmed to look at the league like this, so it's extremely exciting to me.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

sky88

nevermind city running away with the league i think the real problem is games in the premier league are a chore to watch most of the time, there are very few games that a must watch

cant comment on the other leagues as i dont watch them enough this season to comment

KERSPLAT!

Meh, I don't only follow to see who finishes 1st, the excitement in the PL this year will be 2nd to 4th and relegation battle.

Drumpot

Follow the money. The biggest spenders are mostly dominating these leagues.

Tom Mann Centuria

The fact that top FOUR is even a thing shows how desperate things are. It's a nothing, and top flight football is boring mundane and predictable, thank god for Leicester and that tiny glimmer of interest for a season.

Otherwise it's great.

Harry Palmr

Hmmm

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83160542

Obviously no one saw the collapse of Man Utd post Fergie coming.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Tom Mann Centuria

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hmmm

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83160542

Never liked that Mike fella.

Jayop

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

The fact that top FOUR is even a thing shows how desperate things are. It's a nothing, and top flight football is boring mundane and predictable, thank god for Leicester and that tiny glimmer of interest for a season.

Otherwise it's great.

How is it predictable though? In what way?

The only team that are predictable are City and that's only this season because they've been excellent. Liverpool, United and Chelsea are all entirely unpredictable, dropping points and losing to teams way below them.

And top 4 is a thing, it has been a thing for many teams now. The beautiful thing now a days is that there's no "big 4" who are always in the top 4 and it's very open with 6 teams all having a really good shout at getting the top places.

Tom Mann Centuria

Jayop wrote: »

How is it predictable though? In what way?

The only team that are predictable are City and that's only this season because they've been excellent. Liverpool, United and Chelsea are all entirely unpredictable, dropping points and losing to teams way below them.

And top 4 is a thing, it has been a thing for many teams now. The beautiful thing now a days is that there's no "big 4" who are always in the top 4 and it's very open with 6 teams all having a really good shout at getting the top places.

6 whole teams? Gracious, that is thrilling. The other 86 can dream of 7th. Four places has been a thing for a while, doesn't make it any more palatable.

Jayop

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

6 whole teams? Gracious, that is thrilling. The other 86 can dream of 7th.

Is it not better than 4 as it was for over a decade? Or two teams winning it as it was with United and Arsenal for almost ten years.

My point is that it's more open now than any time in the PL era so it's a strange thing to say that it's gotten more predictable or boring.

Now if you said the football itself had become predictable and boring then I couldn't argue as that's subjective, but the league itself is less so. Also some of the teams that have come up over the last 5 years are properly having a go and building nicely. we've also lost a lot of the dead weight yoyo clubs and good riddens to them.

pjohnson

You'd swear we didn't have Marc Albrighton win the Premier League not that long ago.

Tom Mann Centuria

Jayop wrote: »

Is it not better than 4 as it was for over a decade? Or two teams winning it as it was with United and Arsenal for almost ten years.

My point is that it's more open now than any time in the PL era so it's a strange thing to say that it's gotten more predictable or boring.

Now if you said the football itself had become predictable and boring then I couldn't argue as that's subjective, but the league itself is less so. Also some of the teams that have come up over the last 5 years are properly having a go and building nicely. we've also lost a lot of the dead weight yoyo clubs and good riddens to them.

Fair point, single results may or may not be predicable but the positions in the league certainly will be for donkeys years to come. If I'm supposed to be excited by what's in effect a 6 team league, then nope, I'm not.

inforfun

sky88 wrote: »

nevermind city running away with the league i think the real problem is games in the premier league are a chore to watch most of the time, there are very few games that a must watch

cant comment on the other leagues as i dont watch them enough this season to comment

Wait till about march when half the PL cant relegate nor get into European places and matches can be done "on paper"

As much as i hate the play-offs in Holland (mostly because Feyenoord ****ed up royally there in the past) there is usually only 1 or 2 teams that have absolutely nothing to play for on the last day of the league

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

PhlegmyMoses

inforfun wrote: »

Each of these leagues will have a number 4 finisher directly added to the group stage of the CL. For what? For managing to finish 25\30 points behind the champions?
In the mean time, the Dutch champions will have to play qualifiers.

If there was ever a bubble that deserves bursting.

What is your alternative? Stick a load of teams who came 2nd in their league into the CL from nations whose league champions get pumped in boring qualifying and group stages year on year? Hope that the money - which will invariably go down because lots of big names that sponsors like such as Liverpool, Arsenal, United, Atletico, etc are not there - will give these teams a leg up? Even though it doesn't for the top ranking teams in these nations.

Only thing I could suggest is going back to a champions only format, which I personally would not enjoy, because I enjoy watching both barca and Real, All of the English clubs, Bayern and Dortmund etc in the comp year on year.

inforfun

Patww79 wrote: »

You get the feeling these days that in a lot of EPL games near the end of the season, if you could offer both managers a 0-0 a few days before the game then they'd take it and everyone has a nice week off.

That is what i was pointing at, yes.
TV money secured, bring on the summer break.

Tom Mann Centuria

I think my irritation is more with English Media than the leagues themselves. Over hype ad nauseam makes it hard to love them.

rob316

I think we need a bonus point system like Rugby, if you score more than say 3 or 4 goals in game. Would really shake things up and promote attacking exciting games.

Some of the PL games are absolutely dire to watch.

I started watching a lot of the Championship games this season, its miles more exciting to follow.

There absolutely has to be something real brought in to curtail the spending of the Manchester clubs though and to a lesser extent the rest in the top 6, the gap is only going to get bigger and bigger buy the year. Whatever about United but there absolutely no way City are self generating those funds legitimately.

inforfun

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

What is your alternative? Stick a load of teams who came 2nd in their league into the CL from nations whose league champions get pumped in boring qualifying and group stages year on year? Hope that the money - which will invariably go down because lots of big names that sponsors like such as Liverpool, Arsenal, United, Atletico, etc are not there - will give these teams a leg up? Even though it doesn't for the top ranking teams in these nations.

Only thing I could suggest is going back to a champions only format, which I personally would not enjoy, because I enjoy watching both barca and Real, All of the English clubs, Bayern and Dortmund etc in the comp year on year.

If it was up to me, we would go back to the old format tomorrow.
Champions only, knock out.
The only way a team from a smaller league makes a chance.

I know it isnt practical but it would be the only way to not end up in endless repeat of 1/8,1/4.1/2 finals in the CL year after year.

The way it is set up now you can have 9 Classico's in 1 season
(2x league, 2x CL, 2x Copa del Rey, 2x Spanish Super cup, 1x European supercup)

Osmosis Jones

If it was so predictable we'd all be making millions winning easy bets.

rob316

I still reckon we will see a European super league some day soon. The top clubs will get sick of sharing the TV money with the small clubs and will go make a fortune. You wont be get invited to the party on merit either it will how big your balance sheet is.

Harry Palmr

rob316 wrote: »

I think we need a bonus point system like Rugby, if you score more than say 3 or 4 goals in game. Would really shake things up and promote attacking exciting games.

Some of the PL games are absolutely dire to watch.

Which is why Jimmy Hill advocated three points for the win - he thought that would end the tendency towards playing for a point. How wrong he was!

I'd certainly be willing to see adventure rewarded though I would say that wouldn't I

rob316

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Which is why Jimmy Hill advocated three points for the win - he thought that would end the tendency towards playing for a point. How wrong he was!

I'd certainly be willing to see adventure rewarded though I would say that wouldn't I

Of course we would Harry

blueser

I can see why, for neutrals, the PL is fairly "meh" this year. If I was a neutral, I'd be focussing on the scrap for 2nd, 3rd and 4th spots. Utd will more than likely claim one of those spots, leaving 4 clubs ('Pool, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal) battling for the last two spots. And the desperate fight to stay in the cash cow that is the PL will be interesting.

PhlegmyMoses

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Which is why Jimmy Hill advocated three points for the win - he thought that would end the tendency towards playing for a point. How wrong he was!

I'd certainly be willing to see adventure rewarded though I would say that wouldn't I

The top team in each division is by far and away the top scorer, and that will play out most seasons. Even this year, Liverpool, who are seen as an attacking team, only have a handful more goals than United, who are seen as a defensive team. In this alternative universe, you would basically see bottom teams getting smashed (like you do now) and the big games still resulting in low scoring affairs by and large. It would still make sense for Mourinho, for example, to draw or lose a big game by one or two in this format, because the points differential is the same.

Jayop

I've a few minutes so I'll do an alternative table of the top 4 whereby they get rewarded for scoring more goals.

Say 3 points for a win and a point for a draw as normal and an extra point for scoring 3 goals in a game win lose or draw.

Jayop

City have scored 3 or more 13 times
United have scored 3 or more 8 times
Chelsea have scored 3 or more 7 times
Liverpool have scored 3 or more 12 times

Club.......PL.....W......D.....BP....Pts.
City........24.....21.....2.....13....78
United....24.....16.....5.....8......61
L'pool.....24.....13.....8.....12....59
Chelsea..24.....15.....5.....7......57

For interest....
Spurs have done it 9 times
Arsenal have done it 7 times


So in reality it changes not a lot, From the top 6 only Liverpool and Chelsea swap 3rd and 4th. I'd also imagine if that was in play at the start of the season there's not too many of the games that Liverpool scored 2 or less that having the incentive to try to score more would have helped them given how gung ho they are already, whereas United and Chelsea would almost certainly have pushed more for a 3rd in the games that they scored 2 or less in.

All we're left with is an even bigger gap between City and the rest and the rest of the league and the top teams.

Rekop dog

inforfun wrote: »

In the mean time, the Dutch champions will have to play qualifiers.

If there was ever a bubble that deserves bursting.

What bubble? There's only been one Dutch side in the last 16 of the champions league this decade. ONE! It's double figures how many 4th place sides from the leagues you call boring that have got to the knockouts in that time.

Are you suggesting vastly inferior sides from a declining league should get priority over clearly better ones to the detriment to the quality of the champions league? Heck throw Dundalk in there too instead of Liverpool or Sevilla, they're more deserving right?

NIMAN

There was a guy on The Last Word last year or the year before, who wrote a book about football and its basic summary was that whoever spends the most money tends to win the most.

Fairly logical I suppose.

inforfun

Rekop dog wrote: »

What bubble? There's only been one Dutch side in the last 16 of the champions league this decade. ONE! It's double figures how many 4th place sides from the leagues you call boring that have got to the knockouts in that time.

Are you suggesting vastly inferior sides from a declining league should get priority over clearly better ones to the detriment to the quality of the champions league? Heck throw Dundalk in there too instead of Liverpool or Sevilla, they're more deserving right?

Well, in something called the Champions league a national champion deserves it more than a 4th place team that lost the league by 20 or 30 points.

And yes, the Dutch league is declining but just today there was a perfect reason why again.
Man City picking up a PEC Zwolle player beating PSV and AZ, the current no1 and 3 in the league.
Now.... do you think Sandler will ever play for City's first team or will he just be added to the army of players sent on loan for years to come?

NIMAN

and it looks like Man City are about to spend another £60mill on another defender, cos they aren't far enough ahead in the PL.

That means they will have spent £190,000,000 on defenders since end of last season.

thebaz

NIMAN wrote: »

and it looks like Man City are about to spend another £60mill on another defender, cos they aren't far enough ahead in the PL.

That means they will have spent £190,000,000 on defenders since end of last season.

its not that long ago Gauter got that last minute goal to get them out of league 1 - nothing lasts forever - United I beliieve will pose a challange to them next year , as will Spurs, if they can keep ther team and manager together.

NIMAN

thebaz wrote: »

its not that long ago Gauter got that last minute goal to get them out of league 1 - nothing lasts forever - United I beliieve will pose a challange to them next year , as will Spurs, if they can keep ther team and manager together.

Spurs are gone.

Manager, and at least Kane will not be there next season if the right suitors come in (probably Real Madrid).

ERG89

Germany has gone to hell; it's embarrassing that Bayern have the league won by January after a bad start they didn't have to do much just watch as Dortmund absolutely died on their arse for 3 months & have been poor in the market for a few years now bringing back old players to diminishing results. Bayern continued to pick off other clubs players for next to nothing then to add to the frustration.
La Liga is normally tighter but Real have had a bad season that I never saw coming that is for sure.
I dread Juve will pip Napoli who have barely rotated the side this season.

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Only thing I could suggest is going back to a champions only format, which I personally would not enjoy, because I enjoy watching both barca and Real, All of the English clubs, Bayern and Dortmund etc in the comp year on year.

Used to be that you could enjoy watching all those big teams play each other. It was called the Uefa cup and it was very prestigious.

All the champions league did was dilute the product. It left a host of Europes most storied clubs far behind, made a select few untouchably rich and is now boringly familiar. Making the rich richer and leaving the rest behind is anathema to any competitive sport and yet that is what football insists upon doing.

NIMAN

bucketybuck wrote: »

Used to be that you could enjoy watching all those big teams play each other. It was called the Uefa cup and it was very prestigious.

All the champions league did was dilute the product. It left a host of Europes most storied clubs far behind, made a select few untouchably rich and is now boringly familiar. Making the rich richer and leaving the rest behind is anathema to any competitive sport and yet that is what football insists upon doing.

The CL initially did grab the interest, now most people I know have little interest until it gets to the knockouts.

Watching most of the big teams go through the motions, playing 6 group games to finish up where you knew they would before the 6 games started, its all a bit pointless.

Sport without competition and decent, well matched sides, eventually gets boring. Watching your team hammer a minnow is fun at first, but you soon tire of it.

Richard Hillman

Serie A just turned into a 2 horse race over the weekend. The chasing 3 all dropped points over the weekend, with the Top 2 winning. It's a classic Title Race between a team that wins nearly every year and a giant that hasn't won in decades.

NIMAN

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Serie A just turned into a 2 horse race over the weekend. The chasing 3 all dropped points over the weekend, with the Top 2 winning. It's a classic Title Race between a team that wins nearly every year and a giant that hasn't won in decades.

Its only January though.....Juve might be 10 pts clear by March, in which case we'll be bitching about lack of competition again.

Minderbinder

Jayop wrote: »

City have scored 3 or more 13 times
United have scored 3 or more 8 times
Chelsea have scored 3 or more 7 times
Liverpool have scored 3 or more 12 times

Club.......PL.....W......D.....BP....Pts.
City........24.....21.....2.....13....78
United....24.....16.....5.....8......61
L'pool.....24.....13.....8.....12....59
Chelsea..24.....15.....5.....7......57

For interest....
Spurs have done it 9 times
Arsenal have done it 7 times


So in reality it changes not a lot, From the top 6 only Liverpool and Chelsea swap 3rd and 4th. I'd also imagine if that was in play at the start of the season there's not too many of the games that Liverpool scored 2 or less that having the incentive to try to score more would have helped them given how gung ho they are already, whereas United and Chelsea would almost certainly have pushed more for a 3rd in the games that they scored 2 or less in.

All we're left with is an even bigger gap between City and the rest and the rest of the league and the top teams.

VAR is going to do likewise.

AdamD

inforfun wrote: »

If it was up to me, we would go back to the old format tomorrow.
Champions only, knock out.
The only way a team from a smaller league makes a chance.

I know it isnt practical but it would be the only way to not end up in endless repeat of 1/8,1/4.1/2 finals in the CL year after year.

The way it is set up now you can have 9 Classico's in 1 season
(2x league, 2x CL, 2x Copa del Rey, 2x Spanish Super cup, 1x European supercup)

Have a look at the fixtures from the old Champions League, nostalgia is severely blinding people here. Most games were utterly crap and it would be even worse returning to it now, the champions from the biggest leagues would utterly destroy the other teams.

bucketybuck

AdamD wrote: »

the champions from the biggest leagues would utterly destroy the other teams.

Of course they would, that's what happens when you arrange things to suit the elite, they move further ahead of the pack. After 26 years of preferential treatment why wouldn't they be dominant?

inforfun

AdamD wrote: »

Have a look at the fixtures from the old Champions League, nostalgia is severely blinding people here. Most games were utterly crap and it would be even worse returning to it now, the champions from the biggest leagues would utterly destroy the other teams.

Giving the biggest part of the CL money to the richest clubs does kind of have that effect.
And i am not talking price money because the more you advance, the more you money you win, i dont have a problem with.

AdamD

bucketybuck wrote: »

Of course they would, that's what happens when you arrange things to suit the elite, they move further ahead of the pack. After 26 years of preferential treatment why wouldn't they be dominant?

Right, doesn't change the fact it would be crap to watch. You aren't going to suddenly strengthen the weaker leagues by doing this, you'd just ruin the CL.

MD1990

The PL has been very good this year.

Lots of great attacking football. La Liga has regressed a bit. Dont watch Bundesliga.

Serie A is very very weak now. The bottom half sides in Serie I think could struggle in the Championship.

ERG89

MD1990 wrote:

The PL has been very good this year.

How?
United & City have improved other than them the top sides aren't better & there are 12 teams battling relegation.
A lot of it is poor to watch as well despite the amount spent.